Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

I've been thinking about a hard dodger, too.

There are a couple of aftermarket sources that are essentially fiberglass
"roofs" held up with tubular stainless frames. You still have fabric for the
side panels and the front. I don't really see the point.

Someone built, photographed, and posted a "stitch and glue" hard dodger. If
you aren't familiar with the term, it means plywood panels that are tabbed
together with resin and fiberglass cloth, then painted. The pictures are
easy to find with google or Yahoo! by searching for "stitch and glue
dodger". I think it looks terrible, but it may inspire you to do something
better.

The best looking one I've ever seen--from a distance anyway--is on Sue and
Larry's restored Formosa Peterson, "Serengeti." Sue and Larry are sailing
authors who regularly contribute to sailnet.com, and there are many pictures
of their boat attached to their articles. The reason I like their hard
dodger the best is because the dodger and bimini are one long, continuous
piece covers the entire cockpit and is large enough to put a whole boatload
of solar panels on. It also has a hard windshield. Visit sailnet.com and
search for "hard dodger" and you'll see it.

I've done some pencil sketches of my own version of Sue and Larry's design,
I think it's doable but quite the project. I guess if Larry can do it so
could I, but I notice that they never wrote an article about the dodger and
they never show it close up. So, they may be unhappy with their workmanship.

Next time I order a custom yacht, I'm getting one for sure (yeah, right).

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

I've been thinking about a hard dodger, too.

There are a couple of aftermarket sources that are essentially fiberglass
"roofs" held up with tubular stainless frames. You still have fabric for the
side panels and the front. I don't really see the point.

Someone built, photographed, and posted a "stitch and glue" hard dodger. If
you aren't familiar with the term, it means plywood panels that are tabbed
together with resin and fiberglass cloth, then painted. The pictures are
easy to find with google or Yahoo! by searching for "stitch and glue
dodger". I think it looks terrible, but it may inspire you to do something
better.

The best looking one I've ever seen--from a distance anyway--is on Sue and
Larry's restored Formosa Peterson, "Serengeti." Sue and Larry are sailing
authors who regularly contribute to sailnet.com, and there are many pictures
of their boat attached to their articles. The reason I like their hard
dodger the best is because the dodger and bimini are one long, continuous
piece covers the entire cockpit and is large enough to put a whole boatload
of solar panels on. It also has a hard windshield. Visit sailnet.com and
search for "hard dodger" and you'll see it.

I've done some pencil sketches of my own version of Sue and Larry's design,
I think it's doable but quite the project. I guess if Larry can do it so
could I, but I notice that they never wrote an article about the dodger and
they never show it close up. So, they may be unhappy with their workmanship.

Next time I order a custom yacht, I'm getting one for sure (yeah, right).

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

x-no-archive:yes

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote:

Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Bob wants to do this too. I hope I've headed him off.

I suggested that it be one that would collapse down to make a cockpit
cover when we take off the excess canvas pre-hurricane or pre-haul by
the yard. There would be some engineering involved I guess.

People that have done this on our boats have put up that hard tubing
frame with a canvas top - the frame is stationary rather than
collapsing like ours does, and the canvas laces on. That seems like
the worst of both worlds to me.

I like to have a dodger than I can take out to let air flow through
the boat, and pull down in case the air is cold or has lots of big
particles of water in it.

http://www.thetwocaptains.com/engine_room/volume5.htm shows one that
was made in Trinidad.

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

x-no-archive:yes

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote:

Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Bob wants to do this too. I hope I've headed him off.

I suggested that it be one that would collapse down to make a cockpit
cover when we take off the excess canvas pre-hurricane or pre-haul by
the yard. There would be some engineering involved I guess.

People that have done this on our boats have put up that hard tubing
frame with a canvas top - the frame is stationary rather than
collapsing like ours does, and the canvas laces on. That seems like
the worst of both worlds to me.

I like to have a dodger than I can take out to let air flow through
the boat, and pull down in case the air is cold or has lots of big
particles of water in it.

http://www.thetwocaptains.com/engine_room/volume5.htm shows one that
was made in Trinidad.

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id2.html

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"Paul" wrote in message
m...

The best looking one I've ever seen--from a distance anyway--is on Sue and
Larry's restored Formosa Peterson, "Serengeti." Sue and Larry are sailing
authors who regularly contribute to sailnet.com, and there are many
pictures
of their boat attached to their articles. The reason I like their hard
dodger the best is because the dodger and bimini are one long, continuous
piece covers the entire cockpit and is large enough to put a whole
boatload
of solar panels on. It also has a hard windshield. Visit sailnet.com and
search for "hard dodger" and you'll see it.

I've done some pencil sketches of my own version of Sue and Larry's
design,
I think it's doable but quite the project. I guess if Larry can do it so
could I, but I notice that they never wrote an article about the dodger
and
they never show it close up. So, they may be unhappy with their
workmanship.


They did, indeed, write up about it. Estimated that they had over 1000
hours of labor in it, and over 5k of money. I archived the article, I
think - they talked about it in one of their solar articles...

Meanwhile, I'm about to buy one with a 10x12 HT, but with all removable
panels that also have zipouts for short-term removal. You can get a better
look at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery and click on hightime.

One of our anticipated upgrades is to cover it in solar panels - but another
of my correspondents, from the SSCA lists, has had excellent luck with just
one solar and one wind generator, usually keeping his 800AH of batteries
fully charged, so I'm thinking about that, as expensive as solar is for the
amount of amps it produces.

L8R

Skip


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"Paul" wrote in message
m...

The best looking one I've ever seen--from a distance anyway--is on Sue and
Larry's restored Formosa Peterson, "Serengeti." Sue and Larry are sailing
authors who regularly contribute to sailnet.com, and there are many
pictures
of their boat attached to their articles. The reason I like their hard
dodger the best is because the dodger and bimini are one long, continuous
piece covers the entire cockpit and is large enough to put a whole
boatload
of solar panels on. It also has a hard windshield. Visit sailnet.com and
search for "hard dodger" and you'll see it.

I've done some pencil sketches of my own version of Sue and Larry's
design,
I think it's doable but quite the project. I guess if Larry can do it so
could I, but I notice that they never wrote an article about the dodger
and
they never show it close up. So, they may be unhappy with their
workmanship.


They did, indeed, write up about it. Estimated that they had over 1000
hours of labor in it, and over 5k of money. I archived the article, I
think - they talked about it in one of their solar articles...

Meanwhile, I'm about to buy one with a 10x12 HT, but with all removable
panels that also have zipouts for short-term removal. You can get a better
look at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery and click on hightime.

One of our anticipated upgrades is to cover it in solar panels - but another
of my correspondents, from the SSCA lists, has had excellent luck with just
one solar and one wind generator, usually keeping his 800AH of batteries
fully charged, so I'm thinking about that, as expensive as solar is for the
amount of amps it produces.

L8R

Skip


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:11:56 -0600, "Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote:

Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks


Maybe it's just me, but.....
The last time I sailed, it was on a Catalina 36 with a full dodger....
top, front, sides..all except the back. Folks, I got seasick for the
first time sailing...actually motoring. The "station wagon effect"
allowed the exhaust to flood the cockpit. I went forward on the
deck several times, and that calmed my stomach.

Is this common? Or is it a dodger design problem? Any advice
how to minimize the effect? Short of motoring in reverse?
Thanks,
Norm

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:11:56 -0600, "Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote:

Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks


Maybe it's just me, but.....
The last time I sailed, it was on a Catalina 36 with a full dodger....
top, front, sides..all except the back. Folks, I got seasick for the
first time sailing...actually motoring. The "station wagon effect"
allowed the exhaust to flood the cockpit. I went forward on the
deck several times, and that calmed my stomach.

Is this common? Or is it a dodger design problem? Any advice
how to minimize the effect? Short of motoring in reverse?
Thanks,
Norm

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"engsol" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:11:56 -0600, "Rick & Linda Bernard"
wrote:

Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a
fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks


Maybe it's just me, but.....
The last time I sailed, it was on a Catalina 36 with a full dodger....
top, front, sides..all except the back. Folks, I got seasick for the
first time sailing...actually motoring. The "station wagon effect"
allowed the exhaust to flood the cockpit. I went forward on the
deck several times, and that calmed my stomach.

Is this common? Or is it a dodger design problem? Any advice
how to minimize the effect? Short of motoring in reverse?
Thanks,
Norm

I wouldn't have a fully enclosed solid or fabric dodger /bimini but I sail
mainly in the tropics. The effect of shade, whether it be from solid or
cloth is essential on a cruising boat that is in warmer areas. Enclosing the
cockpit with a full dodger soon becomes oppressive and we do it only in rain
or a particularly cold winter beeze- here in Queensland/Australia that means
well above freezing. My boat has a fabric bimini which can be fully enclosed
with a plastic windscreen and fabric curtains. The windscreen has a small
area just in front of the helmsman that unzips for visibility in bad
conditions. This works very well on my boat in my conditions. I wouldn't
mind a solid bimini but I couldn't tolerate solid windscreen and side panels
in the heat. If sailing only in colder conditions this may be acceptible.

Peter HK

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"engsol" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:11:56 -0600, "Rick & Linda Bernard"
wrote:

Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a
fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks


Maybe it's just me, but.....
The last time I sailed, it was on a Catalina 36 with a full dodger....
top, front, sides..all except the back. Folks, I got seasick for the
first time sailing...actually motoring. The "station wagon effect"
allowed the exhaust to flood the cockpit. I went forward on the
deck several times, and that calmed my stomach.

Is this common? Or is it a dodger design problem? Any advice
how to minimize the effect? Short of motoring in reverse?
Thanks,
Norm

I wouldn't have a fully enclosed solid or fabric dodger /bimini but I sail
mainly in the tropics. The effect of shade, whether it be from solid or
cloth is essential on a cruising boat that is in warmer areas. Enclosing the
cockpit with a full dodger soon becomes oppressive and we do it only in rain
or a particularly cold winter beeze- here in Queensland/Australia that means
well above freezing. My boat has a fabric bimini which can be fully enclosed
with a plastic windscreen and fabric curtains. The windscreen has a small
area just in front of the helmsman that unzips for visibility in bad
conditions. This works very well on my boat in my conditions. I wouldn't
mind a solid bimini but I couldn't tolerate solid windscreen and side panels
in the heat. If sailing only in colder conditions this may be acceptible.

Peter HK

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
om...

The best looking one I've ever seen--from a distance anyway--is on Sue and
Larry's restored Formosa Peterson, "Serengeti." Sue and Larry are sailing
authors who regularly contribute to sailnet.com, and there are many
pictures
of their boat attached to their articles. The reason I like their hard
dodger the best is because the dodger and bimini are one long, continuous
piece covers the entire cockpit and is large enough to put a whole
boatload
of solar panels on. It also has a hard windshield. Visit sailnet.com and
search for "hard dodger" and you'll see it.

I've done some pencil sketches of my own version of Sue and Larry's
design,
I think it's doable but quite the project. I guess if Larry can do it so
could I, but I notice that they never wrote an article about the dodger
and
they never show it close up. So, they may be unhappy with their
workmanship.


They did, indeed, write up about it. Estimated that they had over 1000
hours of labor in it, and over 5k of money. I archived the article, I
think - they talked about it in one of their solar articles...

Meanwhile, I'm about to buy one with a 10x12 HT, but with all removable
panels that also have zipouts for short-term removal. You can get a better
look at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery and click on hightime.

One of our anticipated upgrades is to cover it in solar panels - but another
of my correspondents, from the SSCA lists, has had excellent luck with just
one solar and one wind generator, usually keeping his 800AH of batteries
fully charged, so I'm thinking about that, as expensive as solar is for the
amount of amps it produces.

We had 2 solar panels one on the dinghy davits and one on the radar
arch, and Bob has recently (within the last 2 months) added two on the
cabin top under the staysail boom, plus one wind generator. The folks
down here like the solar panels better than the wind generator, but we
like the wind generator, especially at night. We don't have a genset,
so at anchor or on a mooring we have to run the engine twice a day for
about half an hour to run the refrigeration. But other than that the
two solar panels and the wind generator have supplied all our power
needs (two banks of 4 six volt batteries).

grandma Rosalie

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

x-no-archive:yes


"Skip Gundlach"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
om...

The best looking one I've ever seen--from a distance anyway--is on Sue and
Larry's restored Formosa Peterson, "Serengeti." Sue and Larry are sailing
authors who regularly contribute to sailnet.com, and there are many
pictures
of their boat attached to their articles. The reason I like their hard
dodger the best is because the dodger and bimini are one long, continuous
piece covers the entire cockpit and is large enough to put a whole
boatload
of solar panels on. It also has a hard windshield. Visit sailnet.com and
search for "hard dodger" and you'll see it.

I've done some pencil sketches of my own version of Sue and Larry's
design,
I think it's doable but quite the project. I guess if Larry can do it so
could I, but I notice that they never wrote an article about the dodger
and
they never show it close up. So, they may be unhappy with their
workmanship.


They did, indeed, write up about it. Estimated that they had over 1000
hours of labor in it, and over 5k of money. I archived the article, I
think - they talked about it in one of their solar articles...

Meanwhile, I'm about to buy one with a 10x12 HT, but with all removable
panels that also have zipouts for short-term removal. You can get a better
look at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery and click on hightime.

One of our anticipated upgrades is to cover it in solar panels - but another
of my correspondents, from the SSCA lists, has had excellent luck with just
one solar and one wind generator, usually keeping his 800AH of batteries
fully charged, so I'm thinking about that, as expensive as solar is for the
amount of amps it produces.

We had 2 solar panels one on the dinghy davits and one on the radar
arch, and Bob has recently (within the last 2 months) added two on the
cabin top under the staysail boom, plus one wind generator. The folks
down here like the solar panels better than the wind generator, but we
like the wind generator, especially at night. We don't have a genset,
so at anchor or on a mooring we have to run the engine twice a day for
about half an hour to run the refrigeration. But other than that the
two solar panels and the wind generator have supplied all our power
needs (two banks of 4 six volt batteries).

grandma Rosalie

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message ...
Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks

You may want to consider making it out of a light composite like foam,
glass, and resin. If you want more info go to rec.boat.builders and
post a question on the subject. You must however give a little more
info if you want real information. For instance, type of boat, size of
proposed hard top, removable/permanant, etc... The more info you give,
the more related answers you will get. I don't work with foam yet but
there are lot's of guys over there that do, I am sure you can hook up
with one of them.
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message ...
Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks

You may want to consider making it out of a light composite like foam,
glass, and resin. If you want more info go to rec.boat.builders and
post a question on the subject. You must however give a little more
info if you want real information. For instance, type of boat, size of
proposed hard top, removable/permanant, etc... The more info you give,
the more related answers you will get. I don't work with foam yet but
there are lot's of guys over there that do, I am sure you can hook up
with one of them.
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"engsol" wrote in message
...

Maybe it's just me, but.....
The last time I sailed, it was on a Catalina 36 with a full dodger....
top, front, sides..all except the back. Folks, I got seasick for the
first time sailing...actually motoring. The "station wagon effect"
allowed the exhaust to flood the cockpit. I went forward on the
deck several times, and that calmed my stomach.

Is this common? Or is it a dodger design problem? Any advice
how to minimize the effect? Short of motoring in reverse?

Open one of the front windows - a proper dodger must have a way of raising,
lowering, or removing one of the front panels. We open ours in virtually all
weather.

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

"engsol" wrote in message
...

Maybe it's just me, but.....
The last time I sailed, it was on a Catalina 36 with a full dodger....
top, front, sides..all except the back. Folks, I got seasick for the
first time sailing...actually motoring. The "station wagon effect"
allowed the exhaust to flood the cockpit. I went forward on the
deck several times, and that calmed my stomach.

Is this common? Or is it a dodger design problem? Any advice
how to minimize the effect? Short of motoring in reverse?

Open one of the front windows - a proper dodger must have a way of raising,
lowering, or removing one of the front panels. We open ours in virtually all
weather.

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

My catamaran, and well as the most of the others sold by PDQ, have a hardtop.
Its strong enough to walk on, and provides a platform for three solar panels and
the traveler. I love it, and was one of the reasons we got a new boat, rather
than the earlier versions with a "soft top." We keep most of the canvas up on
it, but arranged for hooks that allows folding the "windshield" under the top
(see pic below). We do this most of the time, as it increases ventilation,
visibility, and communication with the bow. For nasty weather, we have full
surround so we can seal up the helm area. The Sun will warm it up - very handy
when you're getting an early start on a fall morning. The entire enclosure has
8 panels, so we have a lot of options on how much we want to use.

The factory had some issues designing this. They wanted it to be very light,
yet strong enough to be walked on and support the traveler. They ended up with
eight very strong supports, and carbon fiber reinforcement. The cost to
retrofit earlier boats was something like 4 to 5 thou, and I'm not sure that
included the traveler support.

One compromise approach I've seem used is a solid framework of stainless tubing,
covered with canvas. This can include a "walkway," and solar panel mounting
area. I've seen a very nice one with screens, windows, and shade panels.

Here's my builders site - you'll have to surf to find pics:
http://www.pdqyachts.com/ver2/yachts...lFrameSet.html

Here's ours, with our 8 year old "at the helm" - we were 20 miles offshore at
the time:
http://www.sv-loki.com/img_1415.jpg


"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

My catamaran, and well as the most of the others sold by PDQ, have a hardtop.
Its strong enough to walk on, and provides a platform for three solar panels and
the traveler. I love it, and was one of the reasons we got a new boat, rather
than the earlier versions with a "soft top." We keep most of the canvas up on
it, but arranged for hooks that allows folding the "windshield" under the top
(see pic below). We do this most of the time, as it increases ventilation,
visibility, and communication with the bow. For nasty weather, we have full
surround so we can seal up the helm area. The Sun will warm it up - very handy
when you're getting an early start on a fall morning. The entire enclosure has
8 panels, so we have a lot of options on how much we want to use.

The factory had some issues designing this. They wanted it to be very light,
yet strong enough to be walked on and support the traveler. They ended up with
eight very strong supports, and carbon fiber reinforcement. The cost to
retrofit earlier boats was something like 4 to 5 thou, and I'm not sure that
included the traveler support.

One compromise approach I've seem used is a solid framework of stainless tubing,
covered with canvas. This can include a "walkway," and solar panel mounting
area. I've seen a very nice one with screens, windows, and shade panels.

Here's my builders site - you'll have to surf to find pics:
http://www.pdqyachts.com/ver2/yachts...lFrameSet.html

Here's ours, with our 8 year old "at the helm" - we were 20 miles offshore at
the time:
http://www.sv-loki.com/img_1415.jpg


"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.

Thanks

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:00:49 GMT, Peter HK wrote:
....
Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a
fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.


If you sail in moderate temps and latitudes a hard doger is an excellent
way to add 15' to your boat. It is the best thing i did to my boat, Make
it strong enough to walk on so you can reef while standing on it. I put
the solar panels there.
in cooler climates it turns into a greenhouse and extends the sailing
season months! Rainy days and nightime passages are very pleasant. I look
around at others in their raingear sopping wet and i am siting inside
sipping tea watching my chart plotter laptop and wondering why,,,unless it
makes you feel like your roughing it?

As to the 'wagon effect' just sail it.
Rick

Replacing a Bimini with a Hardtop
 

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:00:49 GMT, Peter HK wrote:
....
Any comments or suggestions on replacing a bimini-dodger with a
fiberglass
hardtop? I am in the initial planning stages and looking for input.


If you sail in moderate temps and latitudes a hard doger is an excellent
way to add 15' to your boat. It is the best thing i did to my boat, Make
it strong enough to walk on so you can reef while standing on it. I put
the solar panels there.
in cooler climates it turns into a greenhouse and extends the sailing
season months! Rainy days and nightime passages are very pleasant. I look
around at others in their raingear sopping wet and i am siting inside
sipping tea watching my chart plotter laptop and wondering why,,,unless it
makes you feel like your roughing it?

As to the 'wagon effect' just sail it.
Rick