Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

Is there anybody with experience sailing the Hunter 336 on longer
voyages at open sea?
I'm especially interested in the behaviour of the boat in rough
weather and the trips that owners made at open sea or ocean (atlantic
crossings or suchlike).

Thanks,
Keith

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

Pull out one of the drain holes above the waterline and look at the
thickness of the hull........count all those carefully laid layers of
roving fiberglass mat that gives this Hunter its tremendous hull
strength at sea.

Now, go down in the bilge on the other side of the drain hole and see
how far apart the stringers and other supporting structures are that
keep that hull thickness from collapsing when that big 20' wave slaps
against the hull like a sledge hammer.......

Ask Yourself - Do you REALLY want to test it to see if it's strong
enough for that wave???......



On 8 Feb 2004 12:11:55 -0800, (Keith) wrote:

Is there anybody with experience sailing the Hunter 336 on longer
voyages at open sea?
I'm especially interested in the behaviour of the boat in rough
weather and the trips that owners made at open sea or ocean (atlantic
crossings or suchlike).

Thanks,
Keith


Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

Pull out one of the drain holes above the waterline and look at the
thickness of the hull........count all those carefully laid layers of
roving fiberglass mat that gives this Hunter its tremendous hull
strength at sea.

Now, go down in the bilge on the other side of the drain hole and see
how far apart the stringers and other supporting structures are that
keep that hull thickness from collapsing when that big 20' wave slaps
against the hull like a sledge hammer.......

Ask Yourself - Do you REALLY want to test it to see if it's strong
enough for that wave???......



On 8 Feb 2004 12:11:55 -0800, (Keith) wrote:

Is there anybody with experience sailing the Hunter 336 on longer
voyages at open sea?
I'm especially interested in the behaviour of the boat in rough
weather and the trips that owners made at open sea or ocean (atlantic
crossings or suchlike).

Thanks,
Keith


Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

Hunters aren't well regarded for serious offshore use. I
wouldn't feel safe in one in serious seaway.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Keith" wrote in message
om...
Is there anybody with experience sailing the Hunter 336 on longer
voyages at open sea?
I'm especially interested in the behaviour of the boat in rough
weather and the trips that owners made at open sea or ocean (atlantic
crossings or suchlike).

Thanks,
Keith

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

Hunters aren't well regarded for serious offshore use. I
wouldn't feel safe in one in serious seaway.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Keith" wrote in message
om...
Is there anybody with experience sailing the Hunter 336 on longer
voyages at open sea?
I'm especially interested in the behaviour of the boat in rough
weather and the trips that owners made at open sea or ocean (atlantic
crossings or suchlike).

Thanks,
Keith

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

I own a Hunter 336. They are fine as coastal cruisers, but aren't
really designed for offshore use.

That doesn't mean you can't take one offshore, people are sailing
around out there right now in leaky 24-footers. But I wouldn't take
mine any further than the occasional trek out into Block Island Sound.

That stuff about the thickness of the hull and the placement of the
stringers doesn't mean much to me. The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.

But, this Hunter doesn't have a through-bolted hull and deck joint. It
isn't made to heel in a blow, there's too much freeboard. I don't
think that the deck fittings are adequately backed to stake your life
on them.

There are boats that cost the same, a little older probably, that
maybe aren't as cushy in port, that would do much better in a seaway.

And, the boat doesn't need a backstay. It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces. However, I think that no-backstay rigs are a pain in
the ass and I'd never have one again.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Paul

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

I own a Hunter 336. They are fine as coastal cruisers, but aren't
really designed for offshore use.

That doesn't mean you can't take one offshore, people are sailing
around out there right now in leaky 24-footers. But I wouldn't take
mine any further than the occasional trek out into Block Island Sound.

That stuff about the thickness of the hull and the placement of the
stringers doesn't mean much to me. The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.

But, this Hunter doesn't have a through-bolted hull and deck joint. It
isn't made to heel in a blow, there's too much freeboard. I don't
think that the deck fittings are adequately backed to stake your life
on them.

There are boats that cost the same, a little older probably, that
maybe aren't as cushy in port, that would do much better in a seaway.

And, the boat doesn't need a backstay. It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces. However, I think that no-backstay rigs are a pain in
the ass and I'd never have one again.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Paul

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

Wow. An honest man. Most guys would like to pretend the boat they
chose to buy is Absolutely the Best Thing Going In All Sea States.

You seem, by contrast, refreshingly realistic.

I have got flak on occasion for being crtical in print of a lot of
today's designs for ignoring things like excessive beam, proper
backing of deck gear, excessive freeboard, and so on. I've been
accused of only liking dark, dank and narrow older designs.

On the contrary, I like designs that won't kill me and will sail
effectively. I am sure your Hunter does that admirably in the
conditions in which you sail. I dock beside a Hunter 336 (I have a '73
Viking 33, which is exactly the same length) and the contrast is
stunning. My boat looks like a pup tent next to a condo. I see (and
hear) quite a bit of partying on the Hunter next slip over, but I
think I miss most of it....I'm usually off sailing.

Glad to hear you are, too.

R.

On 9 Feb 2004 12:24:35 -0800, (Paul) wrote:

I own a Hunter 336. They are fine as coastal cruisers, but aren't
really designed for offshore use.

That doesn't mean you can't take one offshore, people are sailing
around out there right now in leaky 24-footers. But I wouldn't take
mine any further than the occasional trek out into Block Island Sound.

That stuff about the thickness of the hull and the placement of the
stringers doesn't mean much to me. The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.

But, this Hunter doesn't have a through-bolted hull and deck joint. It
isn't made to heel in a blow, there's too much freeboard. I don't
think that the deck fittings are adequately backed to stake your life
on them.

There are boats that cost the same, a little older probably, that
maybe aren't as cushy in port, that would do much better in a seaway.

And, the boat doesn't need a backstay. It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces. However, I think that no-backstay rigs are a pain in
the ass and I'd never have one again.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Paul

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

Wow. An honest man. Most guys would like to pretend the boat they
chose to buy is Absolutely the Best Thing Going In All Sea States.

You seem, by contrast, refreshingly realistic.

I have got flak on occasion for being crtical in print of a lot of
today's designs for ignoring things like excessive beam, proper
backing of deck gear, excessive freeboard, and so on. I've been
accused of only liking dark, dank and narrow older designs.

On the contrary, I like designs that won't kill me and will sail
effectively. I am sure your Hunter does that admirably in the
conditions in which you sail. I dock beside a Hunter 336 (I have a '73
Viking 33, which is exactly the same length) and the contrast is
stunning. My boat looks like a pup tent next to a condo. I see (and
hear) quite a bit of partying on the Hunter next slip over, but I
think I miss most of it....I'm usually off sailing.

Glad to hear you are, too.

R.

On 9 Feb 2004 12:24:35 -0800, (Paul) wrote:

I own a Hunter 336. They are fine as coastal cruisers, but aren't
really designed for offshore use.

That doesn't mean you can't take one offshore, people are sailing
around out there right now in leaky 24-footers. But I wouldn't take
mine any further than the occasional trek out into Block Island Sound.

That stuff about the thickness of the hull and the placement of the
stringers doesn't mean much to me. The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.

But, this Hunter doesn't have a through-bolted hull and deck joint. It
isn't made to heel in a blow, there's too much freeboard. I don't
think that the deck fittings are adequately backed to stake your life
on them.

There are boats that cost the same, a little older probably, that
maybe aren't as cushy in port, that would do much better in a seaway.

And, the boat doesn't need a backstay. It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces. However, I think that no-backstay rigs are a pain in
the ass and I'd never have one again.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Paul

Hunter 336
 

Is there any report of loosing a mast of a Hunter 336 in bad weather conditions ?
And why is this fraccional rig ä pain in the ass ?

Hunter 336
 

Is there any report of loosing a mast of a Hunter 336 in bad weather conditions ?
And why is this fraccional rig ä pain in the ass ?

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.


not even close to true. a.) cheap fiberglass boats are not "strong enough" for
anything other than lite conditions, and b.) pound for pound wood is stronger.
In fact, glass over plywood is *much* stronger than glass.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.


not even close to true. a.) cheap fiberglass boats are not "strong enough" for
anything other than lite conditions, and b.) pound for pound wood is stronger.
In fact, glass over plywood is *much* stronger than glass.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces

nope. and you don't know the meaning of the word "catenary".

a backstayless rig can indeed do the job under conditions for which the boat is
designed but it NOT stronger than convential rigs (of the same size and weigh)
and "catenary forces" have nothing to do with it.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces

nope. and you don't know the meaning of the word "catenary".

a backstayless rig can indeed do the job under conditions for which the boat is
designed but it NOT stronger than convential rigs (of the same size and weigh)
and "catenary forces" have nothing to do with it.

Hunter 336
 

Hunter 336
 

Hunter 336
 

ah, the water in the Bahamas is way too shallow to support 20 foot waves.

But other than that, nice story to impress dock boys with.

From: (sailorb)
Date: 2/20/2004 5:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

(Keith) wrote in message
.com...
Is there any report of loosing a mast of a Hunter 336 in bad weather
conditions ?
And why is this fraccional rig ä pain in the ass ?

I'm reading alot of crap from people who havn't sailed a hunter rig
with no back stay, I would like to say from first hand experience
that it is just fine, I have a h-26 water ballast and it is a three
point system that hunter built before the B&R rig came out and i've
seen the B&R and its seems better engineered than mine. We sailed it
for 6 weeks in feb and march in the northern bahamas, walker key,
abacos, grand bahamma and back to fla.
we had seas at 20+ feet and winds at 35-40 kt. I was knocked down and
beat to death by the tiller in some small rollers at don't rock near
treasure key, but
the rig was and is still solid. So don't be afraid of the three point
design, it gives you room for a massive sail roach like the americas
cup racers and the guys that build them know what they're doing.

Hunter 336
 

ah, the water in the Bahamas is way too shallow to support 20 foot waves.

But other than that, nice story to impress dock boys with.

From: (sailorb)
Date: 2/20/2004 5:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

(Keith) wrote in message
.com...
Is there any report of loosing a mast of a Hunter 336 in bad weather
conditions ?
And why is this fraccional rig ä pain in the ass ?

I'm reading alot of crap from people who havn't sailed a hunter rig
with no back stay, I would like to say from first hand experience
that it is just fine, I have a h-26 water ballast and it is a three
point system that hunter built before the B&R rig came out and i've
seen the B&R and its seems better engineered than mine. We sailed it
for 6 weeks in feb and march in the northern bahamas, walker key,
abacos, grand bahamma and back to fla.
we had seas at 20+ feet and winds at 35-40 kt. I was knocked down and
beat to death by the tiller in some small rollers at don't rock near
treasure key, but
the rig was and is still solid. So don't be afraid of the three point
design, it gives you room for a massive sail roach like the americas
cup racers and the guys that build them know what they're doing.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

So, are you a structural engineer, numb-nuts? If so, let's have some data
and references. Furthermore, find me one documented case of a modern
cruising sailboat "breaking up" at sea. It's allegedly weak hull just
breaking apart.

Or is it once again the case that you, like every other asshole walking the
dock, have an opinion?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.


not even close to true. a.) cheap fiberglass boats are not "strong
enough" for
anything other than lite conditions, and b.) pound for pound wood is
stronger.
In fact, glass over plywood is *much* stronger than glass.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

So, are you a structural engineer, numb-nuts? If so, let's have some data
and references. Furthermore, find me one documented case of a modern
cruising sailboat "breaking up" at sea. It's allegedly weak hull just
breaking apart.

Or is it once again the case that you, like every other asshole walking the
dock, have an opinion?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.


not even close to true. a.) cheap fiberglass boats are not "strong
enough" for
anything other than lite conditions, and b.) pound for pound wood is
stronger.
In fact, glass over plywood is *much* stronger than glass.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

I know exactly what catenary means, you semi-illiterate dumb-ass.

Catenary forces are a classic problem in physics, where you have linear
forces in parallel with supporting cables. High tension wires are the
typical example.

When the wires are pulled to the point where they are nearly straight-- like
a forstay and backsay for instance-- the tangent of the incident angle
starts to approach infinity. That's why high tension lines and windward
shrouds are designed to sag, so that the catenary forces are kept within
reason.

Look that up in a college physics text, you high-school educated dip****.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces

nope. and you don't know the meaning of the word "catenary".

a backstayless rig can indeed do the job under conditions for which the
boat is
designed but it NOT stronger than convential rigs (of the same size and
weigh)
and "catenary forces" have nothing to do with it.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

I know exactly what catenary means, you semi-illiterate dumb-ass.

Catenary forces are a classic problem in physics, where you have linear
forces in parallel with supporting cables. High tension wires are the
typical example.

When the wires are pulled to the point where they are nearly straight-- like
a forstay and backsay for instance-- the tangent of the incident angle
starts to approach infinity. That's why high tension lines and windward
shrouds are designed to sag, so that the catenary forces are kept within
reason.

Look that up in a college physics text, you high-school educated dip****.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces

nope. and you don't know the meaning of the word "catenary".

a backstayless rig can indeed do the job under conditions for which the
boat is
designed but it NOT stronger than convential rigs (of the same size and
weigh)
and "catenary forces" have nothing to do with it.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

So, are you a structural engineer, numb-nuts? If so, let's have some data
and references. Furthermore, find me one documented case of a modern
cruising sailboat "breaking up" at sea. It's allegedly weak hull just
breaking apart.

Or is it once again the case that you, like every other asshole walking the
dock, have an opinion?

thanks for your ever so kind words.

my remarks come from my personal experience going back 45 years, and from the
people working in the business long term to maintain boats, and from brokers of
potentially ocean going and non-ocean going boats, and naval architects of my
personal aquaintence, and indeed structure engineers, including one -- my
brother -- who used to write technical articles for the Experimental Aircraft
Association.

sorry about your Hunter, dude, but most brokers won't handle one for resale
that has been taken offshore. If you don't believe me, you certainly are free
to ask a few brokers yourself.

btw, glass over plywood (makes for one ugly boat usually, but is rather easily
built in a bach yard) is in fact stronger pound for pound than steel or
aluminum or fiberglass. You have to get to the (damned expensive) exotics to
get a stronger boat pound for pound.

again, sorry about your Hunter.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.


not even close to true. a.) cheap fiberglass boats are not "strong
enough" for
anything other than lite conditions, and b.) pound for pound wood is
stronger.
In fact, glass over plywood is *much* stronger than glass.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

So, are you a structural engineer, numb-nuts? If so, let's have some data
and references. Furthermore, find me one documented case of a modern
cruising sailboat "breaking up" at sea. It's allegedly weak hull just
breaking apart.

Or is it once again the case that you, like every other asshole walking the
dock, have an opinion?

thanks for your ever so kind words.

my remarks come from my personal experience going back 45 years, and from the
people working in the business long term to maintain boats, and from brokers of
potentially ocean going and non-ocean going boats, and naval architects of my
personal aquaintence, and indeed structure engineers, including one -- my
brother -- who used to write technical articles for the Experimental Aircraft
Association.

sorry about your Hunter, dude, but most brokers won't handle one for resale
that has been taken offshore. If you don't believe me, you certainly are free
to ask a few brokers yourself.

btw, glass over plywood (makes for one ugly boat usually, but is rather easily
built in a bach yard) is in fact stronger pound for pound than steel or
aluminum or fiberglass. You have to get to the (damned expensive) exotics to
get a stronger boat pound for pound.

again, sorry about your Hunter.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
The cheapest fiberglass boat has
enough hull strength, fiberglass is tremendously strong compared to
its predecessor, wood.


not even close to true. a.) cheap fiberglass boats are not "strong
enough" for
anything other than lite conditions, and b.) pound for pound wood is
stronger.
In fact, glass over plywood is *much* stronger than glass.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

I know exactly what catenary means, you semi-illiterate dumb-ass.

obviously not. see below.


Catenary forces are a classic problem in physics, where you have linear
forces in parallel with supporting cables. High tension wires are the
typical example.

When the wires are pulled to the point where they are nearly straight-- like
a forstay and backsay for instance-- the tangent of the incident angle
starts to approach infinity. That's why high tension lines and windward
shrouds are designed to sag, so that the catenary forces are kept within
reason.

Look that up in a college physics text, you high-school educated dip****.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces

nope. and you don't know the meaning of the word "catenary".

a backstayless rig can indeed do the job under conditions for which the
boat is
designed but it NOT stronger than convential rigs (of the same size and
weigh)
and "catenary forces" have nothing to do with it.

Sailing the Hunter 336 long distance
 

I know exactly what catenary means, you semi-illiterate dumb-ass.

obviously not. see below.


Catenary forces are a classic problem in physics, where you have linear
forces in parallel with supporting cables. High tension wires are the
typical example.

When the wires are pulled to the point where they are nearly straight-- like
a forstay and backsay for instance-- the tangent of the incident angle
starts to approach infinity. That's why high tension lines and windward
shrouds are designed to sag, so that the catenary forces are kept within
reason.

Look that up in a college physics text, you high-school educated dip****.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
It's fairly easy to prove that
tripod rigs are *stronger* than conventional rigs because of reduced
catenary forces

nope. and you don't know the meaning of the word "catenary".

a backstayless rig can indeed do the job under conditions for which the
boat is
designed but it NOT stronger than convential rigs (of the same size and
weigh)
and "catenary forces" have nothing to do with it.