I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do
most repairs myself on smaller boats. Thanks as always.

Ray,
There are several hidden costs and most people are unaware of them before
they bite. Be very careful about taxes and use charges. These are very
different, place to place. Moorage fees can also bite. Security costs are
location specific and are a real concern. The biggest of all is insurance.
The typical cost is 1.5 to 2.5 % of the insured value per annum. Remember,
good insurance is insurance that pays when claims are made, not the least
expensive premium. Make absolutely sure what your insurance covers, even if
you have to hire a third party to decode the fine print. Do not insure low.
If you do and then make a claim, the value of the claim will automatically
be reduced proportionally. Do not use an estimate of value. Get the boat
surveyed and thoroughly inventoried with photos and receipts and be certain
to submit them to the insurer at the time of signing the contract. By now
you have realized just how expensive this coverage is. You can elect, as
most people do, to assume your property risk yourself. You must not elect to
not insure against liability. This is very foolish, as liability insurance
is affordable. Under the law of the sea, the vessel is firstly responsible
for any caused damages. What this means is when the responsible party is in
question, a bond must be made equaling the claim or the vessel is chained to
a pier until the issue is resolved. This can take years. The costs for this
moorage will be born by you and can easily exceed the cost of the vessel.
Additionally, you may not be allowed either access to, or maintenance of,
the vessel during its impoundment.

If you are thinking about mortgaging the purchase, you will be forced to buy
full coverage insurance of the vessel and you will find that this very
expensive insurance will have a use radius clause which limits your coverage
to say 150 mile radius from your declared home port. Any voyage exceeding
this radius will require specific trip insurance, which may not even be
offered or it will be offered at such a rate that it would not be
unaffordable. Additionally, the mortgage holder must also give specific
permission for the trip. There is a very good reason that only very wealthy
people with lots of disposable income own large boats, even if they build
the boat themselves.
Steve


"ray lunder" wrote in message
...
I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do
most repairs myself on smaller boats. Thanks as always.

ray lunder wrote:
I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do
most repairs myself on smaller boats. Thanks as always.

You need to specify what sort of work and if you can do it yourself. A
good rule of thumb for any boat is that if in perfect shape, it'll cost
10% of its value per year in maintenance charges if you hire it all out.
How much you'll save if you DIY will depend on the job.

I bought a 42' boat in decent shape needing some minor work. My first
brush was redo the running rigging, I found a bad water tank so I needed
to have a new one fabbed, and the reefer needed re-wiring. The cost of
those modest items (SS tank) was $12k all farmed out to a yard.

Later I found too much water in the fuel so I had the diesel polished -
another $1k. Standing rigging redo after I found a frayed wire at a
fitting (also missed during survey) $5k with me doing most of the work

I can go on. My boat wasn't expensive. Some other guy bought a similar
sized boat with an electrically operated swing keel which got stuck in
the box. I think that one cost about $30k to sort out.

So you really need to specify the boat type, its systems and what sort
of issues you KNOW it has now. I will say with 100% certainty that you
don't know the entire story at this point.

-paul

On 2008-01-12 03:12:11 -0500, ray lunder said:

I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do most
repairs myself on smaller boats. Thanks as always.

Can't comment without seeing the boat. I've seen some that looked rough
but were basically sail-away; others that were even rougher than they
appeared. (All boats that have been sitting a few weeks look rough.)

Your best investment right now is a full survey, and to make any
purchase agreement dependent on you being satisfied with the report. (A
"satisfactory survey" can bring some really bad news.) Part of the
survey is a good ball-park estimate of the boat's value and what
repairs/replacements are needed by priority. Anything that isn't
"immediate", BTW, means if/when you get around to it. (I still have
some items to do from our survey 16 seasons ago.)

Assume the electronics are outdated and/or fried, as will be most
everything that can wear out or simply get old. Frankly, anything like
that which works is gravy.

And get with the owners' group(s)! Usually, a necessary repair is a
real bear, but sometimes it's not so bad when you can get good advice.
(See Xan's bulkhead replacement below for one of the latter.)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

ray lunder wrote:
I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do
most repairs myself on smaller boats. Thanks as always.

Try this site, tons of opinions.

http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietrich/Costs.html

Ray, if you're still considering it-

ray lunder wrote:
I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do
most repairs myself on smaller boats.

As others have said, it depends *very* much on what kind of work.
Materials have a way of costing way more than most people think,
especially as the boat size goes up. This can make a "pretty good
deal" suddenly look sour.

The other factoid- time is (of course) money. Unless you really enjoy
the particular sort of work that this boat needs, you are probably
better off working extra hours & buying a boat that is already in good
shape.

Another "cost of ownership" is taxes- you can end up paying sales tax
to your state or a "use tax" which can be a disguised sales tax on
your purchase or a fee based on what the state thinks the boat should
be worth... then you pay property taxes, often in both county & town.
Depends very much on your area, but on a 41-footer it's sure to be
more of an issue than a smaller boat. Another point about sales tax...
many states now demand a share of what you should have paid them, when
you move the boat into that state. Florida is a famous example, if you
are cruising thru Flroida and stay more than 30 days they want you to
register your boat with them (which is about $100 IIRC) and if you
stay more than 90 days they want you to pay them sales tax .... no
matter how long ago you bought the boat... although they are kind
enough to allow you to deduct what you paid in sales tax in your home
state.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I haven't seen any mention of the effect that intended use can have on
ongoing costs.

For example, the ongoing costs associated with a 35 foot cruising boat that
is in good condition will be less, perhaps much less, than a 35 foot hard
core racing boat where sails may depreciate over 1-3 years rather than the
longer life of cruising sails. A racer will be pressed harder more of the
time leading to earlier component replacement (blocks, running rigging,
etc.) There are usually costs associated with racing crews (grog, food,
shirts, bail).

I've used a racer as just one example. If a boat will be used for family
fun in the harbour then the recurring costs will clearly be much less than a
boat that is used for extended offshore cruising.

I'm probably not saying anything that you haven't considered if you've owned
boats in the past but there may be some readers who are less experienced.


"ray lunder" wrote in message
...
I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do
most repairs myself on smaller boats. Thanks as always.

On Jan 12, 12:12 am, ray lunder wrote:
I've only owned small sailboats before but now,.. I'm looking at a
pretty good deal on a 41 footer that needs some work. Can anyone
comment on the less obvious costs of owning a boat this size? I do
most repairs myself on smaller boats. Thanks as always.

I'll give a bit of the "other side", since I feel my 36ft Catalina was
pretty economical.

Over 17 years, I did a number of replacements and upgrades, including
fridge, giant holding tank, electronics, sails, engine, roller-
furling... and let a few things "slide", like the upholstery. I'd say
the replacements and upgrades cost maybe $25K (including the new
engine). Spread over 17 years, that's about $1.5K/yr. I budgeted about
$600/yr (ok, make it $1K) for "normal maintenance" like annual
haulout, bottom paint, filters, fuel, etc. I bought her for $55K and
sold for $47K, so that's $8K depreciation.

Moorage is another story. Until the last few years, it was $2.5 - $3K /
yr. Last 3 years it jumped to over $4K (one reason I downsized!).

So what's that all add up to... (where's my calculator?) About $7K/yr
for everything. Not too bad, I'd say... (and you could get away with
less if you found cheaper moorage and didn't replace the engine!)

I'm guessing my Crown 28 will cost more like $4 -$6K/yr, depending on
whether I replace the engine.

druid
http://www.bcboatnet.org