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Water tanks - alum or plastic?
Hi,
I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? I'm planning on replacing it with a bigger one, and first I thought plastic, but should I consider aluminum instead? I've always disliked the "plastic" taste in the water from a plastic tank. druid http://www.bcboatnet.org |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:40:40 -0700, druid wrote:
I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? I'm planning on replacing it with a bigger one, and first I thought plastic, but should I consider aluminum instead? I've always disliked the "plastic" taste in the water from a plastic tank. My old boat had an aluminum water tank and it was fine. The one before that was stainless steel. My present boat has black iron (steel) tanks. No problems with any of them. On the other hand if the plastic tank is properly designed and mounted, and sheilded from UV damage, it should last a long time. |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:40:40 -0700, druid wrote:
Hi, I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? I'm planning on replacing it with a bigger one, and first I thought plastic, but should I consider aluminum instead? I've always disliked the "plastic" taste in the water from a plastic tank. A charcoal filter will take out the taste. Casady |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On 2007-10-02 15:40:40 -0400, druid said:
I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? I'm planning on replacing it with a bigger one, and first I thought plastic, but should I consider aluminum instead? I've always disliked the "plastic" taste in the water from a plastic tank. I prefer aluminum over plastic and wouldn't replace a perfectly good tank with a bigger one, but would add tanks in otherwise unused corners of the boat. Our tank is plastic. We have a filter in-line for mostly sediment but the charcoal element removed the last of the plastic and other objectionable components (unless I leave the tank full for a Chesapeake summer week or three, which will overload any filter.) -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 2, 4:41 pm, Jere Lull wrote:
... wouldn't replace a perfectly good tank with a bigger one, but would add tanks in otherwise unused corners of the boat. ... This seems like good advise. I keep hearing horror stories of folks draining all their drinking water into the bilge when they spring a pressure water leak. I always turn my pressure water off at the panel when it isn't in use, but also have two tanks that are isolated so it takes a greater level of idiocy to dump all the fresh water. I also like to make my water into a working tank and keep a known good tank in reserve in case something goes wrong there. -- Tom. |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
"druid" wrote in message ... Hi, I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? I'm planning on replacing it with a bigger one, and first I thought plastic, but should I consider aluminum instead? I've always disliked the "plastic" taste in the water from a plastic tank. you still have 'plastic' lines, don't you? Scotty |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
An aluminum tank will be attacked by any chlorine in the water, plus
you 'really' need to install a magnesium removeable anode. The chlorine attack will prevent you from chlore shock sanitization and/or keeping a small concentration of chlorine to keep down the growth of fungals and bacteria. The BEST probable solution is to use aluminum (with baffles) and then put an FDA/NSF approved 'lining epoxy' on the inside to render the tank safe for chlorination, etc. Such lining epoxied can be applied with a roller and brush (after sanding, etc. to make the aluminum 'bright'). Youll want: rated for POTABLE water and has the FDA/NSF 'certifications'; if you use 'common' epoxy you will get a high concentration of 'leachables' in the water. This stuff is pretty easy to 'roll-on'. Do websearch for NSP-120 or go to the 'commercial' division of Interlux. Such tank 'lining' in the marine and transportation industry is quite common. The advantage of lining a metal tank is that the tanki can have BAFFLES which is impossible with a roto-molded 'plastic' tank. |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 8, 11:19 am, Rich Hampel wrote:
An aluminum tank will be attacked by any chlorine in the water, plus you 'really' need to install a magnesium removeable anode. The chlorine attack will prevent you from chlore shock sanitization and/or keeping a small concentration of chlorine to keep down the growth of fungals and bacteria. The BEST probable solution is to use aluminum (with baffles) and then put an FDA/NSF approved 'lining epoxy' on the inside to render the tank safe for chlorination, etc. Such lining epoxied can be applied with a roller and brush (after sanding, etc. to make the aluminum 'bright'). Youll want: rated for POTABLE water and has the FDA/NSF 'certifications'; if you use 'common' epoxy you will get a high concentration of 'leachables' in the water. This stuff is pretty easy to 'roll-on'. Do websearch for NSP-120 or go to the 'commercial' division of Interlux. Such tank 'lining' in the marine and transportation industry is quite common. The advantage of lining a metal tank is that the tanki can have BAFFLES which is impossible with a roto-molded 'plastic' tank. problem is on a normal baffeled tank of any size (under the size a man can crawl thru the baffles) is painting it with a brush or roller is next to impossiable, unless the tank has an inspection/work port in every space between baffles. It's a great way to go if your building tanks but expensive to do right. And roto mold tanks can and do have baffles. They are made by molding deep V's into the sides of the tanks. Joe |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 2, 12:40 pm, druid wrote:
Hi, I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? Hi I worked in a university research oyster hatchery as a bio lab aid. I was the summer help. But the people who worked there were all PhD types. I scrubbed glass wear. One of the things the lab did was test hatchery materials and water supply materials for toxicity. We used oyster larvae for the indicator in the bio assays. Basically, fertilize the gametes in water with a test material. Observe the development over time. Different materials kill/deform baby oysters at different rates. What I learned in two summers. Oysters are very sensitive creatures. Just about anything will kill em. A material must be really inert (safe) for an oyster to like it. For example, 316 L. Copper, on the other hand, is death to an oyster. Do a little research regarding effects of Aluminum on our brain. So goes with many plastics. Ya Ya Ya yada yada yada in know now all the republicans o, and our one libertarian will pipe in and say you'd have to eat a pound a day for 50 years to have any deleterious effect. So go for it................. I had two 1979 Al tanks on my boat when I bought it. After yanking both out and tearing one open I found pitting every where. Looked like the pox. I eye estimate that 30-40% of all inside tank surfaces were pitted and 100% surface was rough. Then I wondered where all that material went???????????? Now I have two tanks on board. One 40 gallon and one 20 gallon. Both are made of 316 L. Forget plastic and forget Al................... Some things ya just cant filter out using charcoal and paper. Besides, its a boat. Why even conseder anything but the best. Live long and prosper, Bob |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
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Water tanks - alum or plastic?
Bob wrote:
:other hand, is death to an oyster. Do a little research regarding :effects of Aluminum on our brain. So goes with many plastics. Showing there aren't any? |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 9, 10:18 am, David Scheidt wrote:
Bob wrote: :other hand, is death to an oyster. Do a little research regarding :effects of Aluminum on our brain. So goes with many plastics. Showing there aren't any? Howday...... Without reviewing the salient body of literature regarding effects of Al on humans I'll just say: I believe Aluminum in humans is bad.... Any amount. So I don't use Al cookware or Al forks and spoons ya find when third worlding it. Also, potable water tanks. Ya know its kinda like using Al stranded wire in your AC and DC boat system. Now why would you NOT want Al wire, ANY amount, on your boat?????? But like I said b4 lots will say at 8 ppm it aint no problemo. Good on mate for your tuff life style. Sorry, I wont drink an 8 ppm solution of cyanide either. Best o luck. Go with 316L for any size boat. Im not rich, in fact I take home $2000/mo and my boat gets the best. Now why would I do that? Bob |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
Bob wrote:
:On Oct 9, 10:18 am, David Scheidt wrote: : Bob wrote: : : :other hand, is death to an oyster. Do a little research regarding : :effects of Aluminum on our brain. So goes with many plastics. : : Showing there aren't any? :Howday...... :Without reviewing the salient body of literature regarding effects of :Al on humans I'll just say: I believe Aluminum in humans is bad.... Any :amount. You're welcome to believe anything you'd like. Reality will get along just fine without you. |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:27:49 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote: Bob wrote: :On Oct 9, 10:18 am, David Scheidt wrote: : Bob wrote: : : :other hand, is death to an oyster. Do a little research regarding : :effects of Aluminum on our brain. So goes with many plastics. : : Showing there aren't any? :Howday...... :Without reviewing the salient body of literature regarding effects of :Al on humans I'll just say: I believe Aluminum in humans is bad.... Any :amount. You're welcome to believe anything you'd like. Reality will get along just fine without you. Interesting as most of the 3rd world cooks using aluminum pots and alzimers (which was one of the most common ailments attributed to aluminum) doesn't seem to be a major problem. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
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Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 10, 8:25 pm, David Scheidt wrote:
wrote: :On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:27:49 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote: :Bob wrote: ::On Oct 9, 10:18 am, David Scheidt wrote::: Bob wrote: :: :: :other hand, is death to an oyster. Do a little research regarding :: :effects of Aluminum on our brain. So goes with many plastics. :: :: Showing there aren't any? : : : ::Howday...... : ::Without reviewing the salient body of literature regarding effects of ::Al on humans I'll just say: I believe Aluminum in humans is bad.... Any ::amount. : :You're welcome to believe anything you'd like. Reality will get along :just fine without you. :Interesting as most of the 3rd world cooks using aluminum pots and :alzimers (which was one of the most common ailments attributed to :aluminum) doesn't seem to be a major problem. Correlation is not causation. The studies that started the aluminum scare-mongering showed that alzheimers victims had raised levels of aluminum in the plaques in their brains. It didn't show that exposure to aluminum caused alzheimers. Considering the amount of aluminum that people are exposed to from natural sources, it's very unlikely that aluminum is a cause or even a factor in Alzheimers. There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a water tank. Hey there, Its not the same stuff Good luck and have fun. I support your right to eat anything you want.................uh, that is untill I have to start paying for your choices through increased taxes or increased insurance rates. Live long and prosper. Bob |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:07:48 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:
On 2007-10-10 21:56:38 -0400, said: On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:27:49 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote: Bob wrote: Without reviewing the salient body of literature regarding effects of Al on humans I'll just say: I believe Aluminum in humans is bad.... Any amount. You're welcome to believe anything you'd like. Reality will get along just fine without you. Interesting as most of the 3rd world cooks using aluminum pots and Alzimers (which was one of the most common ailments attributed to aluminum) doesn't seem to be a major problem. I don't believe it's a particular problem either, BUT yours isn't a great argument as the 3rd world doesn't *store* food in aluminum containers. You are right. "Storing food" ,other then the year's rice crop, is usually either over night or until someone happens to feel peckish. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
David Scheidt wrote:
There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a water tank. Not to mention skin absorption from antiperspirants, sun block, moisturizers........ Cheers Marty |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 11, 6:40 am, Martin Baxter wrote:
There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a water tank. Not to mention skin absorption from antiperspirants, sun block, moisturizers........ Cheers Marty Hi All...... Ya I guess I your right. Really cant argue against, "we are exposed to lots of it so it cant be harmful." Pretty air tight case Id say. Maybe we should also use that argument for lead and mercury. We could go back to lead water supply pipes and using mercury as a medicine. Oh, and welders shouldn't mind welding galvanized (zinc) materials cause we get zinc in our One-A-Day vitamins. Gee, if zinc is in our vitamins its got to be okay to breath the vapors when welding. You know, if some is good, more is better! Once again, someone here offered a bit of conservative advice and then the majority here said, Al is safe cause we all use it. How liberal is that.....?! Lets see, everybody is smoking pot. I should smoke pot too. A little wont do anything. Besides, the US gov always over exaggerates safety levels. However, I did feel somewhat compelled to offer a safer more conservitive alternitive. Regardless......... Im sticking with 316L water tanks..... Oh, I also use AWAB hose clamps. Why, cost-labor-life curves make them the cheepest to buy. AWAB hose clams the cheepest?!?!?!? No way say the liberals. But a conservatve will understand and see the savings. Bob |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
Bob wrote:
:On Oct 11, 6:40 am, Martin Baxter wrote: : There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health : risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum : from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a : water tank. : : Not to mention skin absorption from antiperspirants, sun block, : moisturizers........ : Cheers : Marty :Hi All...... :Ya I guess I your right. Really cant argue against, "we are exposed to :lots of it so it cant be harmful." Pretty air tight case Id say. Maybe :we should also use that argument for lead and mercury. We could go :back to lead water supply pipes and using mercury as a medicine. Aluminum is the third most common element in the Earth's crust. Nearly everything you've ever eaten has contained aluminum. That probably includes the water out of your fancy stainless steel water tank, by the way. Atmopsheric dust also contains large amounts of it. |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
Bangkok Bruce replied to a few people:
Interesting as most of the 3rd world cooks using aluminum pots and alzimers (which was one of the most common ailments attributed to aluminum) doesn't seem to be a major problem. As someone who years ago traveled extensively in other countries (and even lived in a few) I found that the populations of poorer areas usually ate food - not the stuff some factory belches out or is raised on a diet of chemicals, but things grown from the ground or raised on it eating what is growing on it. Alzheimer's is believed to be caused by an amaloid protein, and aluminum is usually found in high concentrations in brains of its victims, but unless things have changed in the last year since I've read about it it is not believed to be a cause, just a symptom so far. Since aluminum is found often in potable water and in many foods in varying concentrations and yet is not usually found in the brains of healthy people, I would have to believe that aluminum gets into the brain because you are already doing something stupid - like chronically eating chemical laden and processed foods (the ones the medical community in the US keeps saying is safe for you), or doing something else that invites the aluminum past the normally impenetrable (by alum.) blood-brain barrier. Red |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
Its so easy to put in access ports in an aluminum tank. Cut a square
hole, get 2"wide aluminum strips the same gage as the tank walls and install as a sister flange using bolts as attachment studs, epoxy coat the sister flange to the tank and then simply line everything, the original cut out square used as the closure manhole/handhole. The typical 100 gallon square tank in most boats are such that a human arm can reach entirely across to the other side from an access port. Honestly did you ever see a LARGE access port on a rotomolded tank that didnt cost almost as much as the tank without an access port? Without access ports there is NO way to get inside and mechanically scrub off any biofilm (calcyx) ... and if there there is any calcyx remaining, simple sanitization methods simply will not work. Access port ARE simpler easier and cheaper to install /add to an aluminum tank. Mmmmmmmm most ballfes in fabricated metal tanks inthe marine industry typically only have 5%-10% of the projected cross section open to prevent 'sloshing' . A rotomolded tank would probably consist of mostly deep Vs to accomplish the same. A rotomolded tank with the typical baffle area and baffle 'exit' area form by deep Vs would be absolutely preposterous while having little useful internal volume in comparison. Sorry. :-) problem is on a normal baffeled tank of any size (under the size a man can crawl thru the baffles) is painting it with a brush or roller is next to impossiable, unless the tank has an inspection/work port in every space between baffles. It's a great way to go if your building tanks but expensive to do right. And roto mold tanks can and do have baffles. They are made by molding deep V's into the sides of the tanks. Joe |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:28:33 -0000, Bob wrote:
On Oct 11, 6:40 am, Martin Baxter wrote: There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a water tank. Not to mention skin absorption from antiperspirants, sun block, moisturizers........ Cheers Marty Hi All...... Ya I guess I your right. Really cant argue against, "we are exposed to lots of it so it cant be harmful." Pretty air tight case Id say. Maybe we should also use that argument for lead and mercury. We could go back to lead water supply pipes and using mercury as a medicine. You know, I wonder whether we aren't overdoing this terror of lead, Mercury, zinc, this and that? A couple of examples: When I was in high school I worked a couple of summers for the Vermont Forest Service and one of the projects was to re-shingle the barn roof on the Calvin Coolidge homestead. The house was pretty well run down by this time but we camped out in one room and cooked there. We found that the water pipe from the spring, out back, to the kitchen was a lead pipe. Since, as far as I know Calvin was born and raised in that building he drank lead tainted water throughout his childhood. Seemed to do all right in later life. When I was a youngster my mother was a fanatic about oral health so I have fillings that date back to the 1940's - made with "amalgam" a mixture of silver and mercury. Don't seem to have developed any strange symptoms in the years since. This is not to say that I advocate drinking lead paint, sniffing zinc fumes or anything like that but I do believe that this fear of any exotic metals is carried to extremes. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 04:21:11 -0000, wrote:
There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a water tank. Hey there, Its not the same stuff It's not? What exactly is the difference? Casady |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 13, 5:24 am, (Richard Casady)
wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 04:21:11 -0000, wrote: There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a water tank. Hey there, Its not the same stuff It's not? What exactly is the difference? Casady Look, I got better things 2 do bsides gettin n 2 alchemry wit ya. go chew on an aluminium tank maybe 5053 aloy and then swallow a Tums............. uhh, which dont have Al in it. The dif??? go back to CHEM 201. O, ifeel a hard 1 commmin down the pike...........gotta go. |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 04:45:17 -0000, Bob wrote:
On Oct 13, 5:24 am, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 04:21:11 -0000, wrote: There are people that are allergic to aluminum, and there are health risks of excessive aluminum consumption. But you get more aluminum from a couple of antacids than you do from years of drinking out of a water tank. Hey there, Its not the same stuff It's not? What exactly is the difference? Casady Look, I got better things 2 do bsides gettin n 2 alchemry wit ya. go chew on an aluminium tank maybe 5053 aloy and then swallow a Tums............. uhh, which dont have Al in it. The dif??? go back to CHEM 201. O, ifeel a hard 1 commmin down the pike...........gotta go. I take that to mean: 'there is no difference'. Casady |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On Oct 2, 7:41 pm, Jere Lull wrote:
On 2007-10-02 15:40:40 -0400, druid said: I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? I'm planning on replacing it with a bigger one, and first I thought plastic, but should I consider aluminum instead? I've always disliked the "plastic" taste in the water from a plastic tank. I prefer aluminum over plastic and wouldn't replace a perfectly good tank with a bigger one, but would add tanks in otherwise unused corners of the boat. (Wow - I really started a war on this one - sorry!) All things being equal, I'd agree: add a tank rather than replace. However, this is a 28-ft boat and there aren't a lot of options. The existing tank is cylindrical, with no access port. And it's sitting under the V-berth, where there's lots of room for more tanks.... if this was was taken out. So my Plan is to remove the existing tank, put in a platform where the old tank was, and put in His'n'hers water and holding tank. I can't do that without removing the existing tank (which sounds like not a bad idea anyway: better safe than sorry for an unscrubbable, un-lineable aluminum tank!) druid "Coatue" Crown 28 |
Water tanks - alum or plastic?
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Water tanks - alum or plastic?
On 2007-10-15 11:41:21 -0400, druid said:
On Oct 2, 7:41 pm, Jere Lull wrote: On 2007-10-02 15:40:40 -0400, druid said: I've always seen plastic watertanks, but the boat I'm buying has an old aluminum one (I think it's alum: it's metal, and not SS). Is there any advantage to alum over plastic or vice-versa? I'm planning on replacing it with a bigger one, and first I thought plastic, but should I consider aluminum instead? I've always disliked the "plastic" taste in the water from a plastic tank. I prefer aluminum over plastic and wouldn't replace a perfectly good tank with a bigger one, but would add tanks in otherwise unused corners of the boat. (Wow - I really started a war on this one - sorry!) Nothing to be sorry about. The thread ceased to be about the subject very early. All things being equal, I'd agree: add a tank rather than replace. However, this is a 28-ft boat and there aren't a lot of options. The existing tank is cylindrical, with no access port. And it's sitting under the V-berth, where there's lots of room for more tanks.... if this was was taken out. So my Plan is to remove the existing tank, put in a platform where the old tank was, and put in His'n'hers water and holding tank. I can't do that without removing the existing tank (which sounds like not a bad idea anyway: better safe than sorry for an unscrubbable, un-lineable aluminum tank!) druid "Coatue" Crown 28 Xan's also a 28, but we have so many unused corners, I forget that not all boats do. (diagram on Xan's "interior" pages doesn't quite show all our stowage.) I'd say get Peggie Hall's book on sanitation, of course, and suggest that you double the size of the holding tank you envision (ours is 40 gallons and sometimes we have to leave anchorages early). I've come to agree with Ms. Head Mistress that the holding tank ideally should be in the bottom of the "V", with two large vents to either side of the hull for cross-flow. I like the water tank(s) to be as far away from the ends of the boat as possible -- while maintaining trim on the boat, so you may have to move something forward from the transom in the process. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips and tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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