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New Batteries?
It was my own fault. I picked up the boat last Feb and sailed it to New
Orleans, never once considering if the batteries needed water. I put 4.5 GALS in 4 batteries last week! The other 2 (double size) are sealed. Tried today to start on bank 1, then on bank 2. Nothing out of either. All the batteries looked old anyway, so I reckon I am going to have to replace them all. How I'm going to get those doubles out, I have no idea... Any recommendations on make, longevity etc? -- Molesworth |
New Batteries?
On Oct 1, 6:05 pm, Molesworth wrote:
It was my own fault. I picked up the boat last Feb and sailed it to New Orleans, never once considering if the batteries needed water. I put 4.5 GALS in 4 batteries last week! The other 2 (double size) are sealed. Tried today to start on bank 1, then on bank 2. Nothing out of either. All the batteries looked old anyway, so I reckon I am going to have to replace them all. How I'm going to get those doubles out, I have no idea... Any recommendations on make, longevity etc? -- Molesworth Ahoy Molesworth, What do you mean by doubles? Do you know the size of the batteries? By the size you mention I could guess 8-D size. They are real heavy. They went in somehow, then they will come out, you might need a block and tackle to get them out. How many amp hours are the batteries? If and when you get them out, you might consider T-105 golf cart batteries. They are 6 volt and can be handles quite easy. They are a little taller than standard batteries. Still these batteries are the best bang for the buck. If your forgetful you might consider AGM type batteries. They charge faster and are a sealed type so you don't have to add water. Now this comes at a price, about 2.5 times the cost of T-105's This is just a quick reply to your question and I can be far more specific if you require Fair Winds Cap'n Dave |
New Batteries?
In article . com,
" wrote: On Oct 1, 6:05 pm, Molesworth wrote: It was my own fault. I picked up the boat last Feb and sailed it to New Orleans, never once considering if the batteries needed water. I put 4.5 GALS in 4 batteries last week! The other 2 (double size) are sealed. Tried today to start on bank 1, then on bank 2. Nothing out of either. All the batteries looked old anyway, so I reckon I am going to have to replace them all. How I'm going to get those doubles out, I have no idea... Any recommendations on make, longevity etc? -- Molesworth Ahoy Molesworth, What do you mean by doubles? Do you know the size of the batteries? By the size you mention I could guess 8-D size. They are real heavy. They went in somehow, then they will come out, you might need a block and tackle to get them out. How many amp hours are the batteries? If and when you get them out, you might consider T-105 golf cart batteries. They are 6 volt and can be handles quite easy. They are a little taller than standard batteries. Still these batteries are the best bang for the buck. If your forgetful you might consider AGM type batteries. They charge faster and are a sealed type so you don't have to add water. Now this comes at a price, about 2.5 times the cost of T-105's This is just a quick reply to your question and I can be far more specific if you require Fair Winds Cap'n Dave Having posed the question, I thought I'd better have a bit of a search on t' interweb thingy.. and am more confused than before! AGM's seem to be the coming thing but there's no way I can afford 8 of 'em. And there's not a lot of load ampere-wise - florescent lights, mast lights, hot water (on occassion), laptop, depth meter, GPS, anchor winch ... that's about it, apart from the 4cyl 51HP Yanmar. Oh and I just bought a portable AC unit and an inverter (3000 amp). I already have a charger set up. Oh, and a refrigerator and the Lectra-San. Blimey. it adds up doesn't it? Sigh. Any guesses on my amperage requirement? Trouble with sailing is - you have to know everything else too. Today I was a sanitation engineer. Resited the L/S, drilled holes, replumbed it all, did the wiring anew and then found the V tube completely blocked. Like cement. Lawd knows how much of the pipe is blocked. I shall have to get that out tomorrow. -- Molesworth |
New Batteries?
Molesworth wrote: It was my own fault. snip Any recommendations on make, longevity etc? Wet cell batteries are a very mature product, so there several reliable suppliers. T-105, Golf cart batteries provide a big bang for the buck. L-16, Floor sweeper batteries would be best overall choice, if you have the vertical height to install them. Lew |
New Batteries?
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:05:50 -0500, Molesworth
wrote: It was my own fault. I picked up the boat last Feb and sailed it to New Orleans, never once considering if the batteries needed water. I put 4.5 GALS in 4 batteries last week! The other 2 (double size) are sealed. Tried today to start on bank 1, then on bank 2. Nothing out of either. All the batteries looked old anyway, so I reckon I am going to have to replace them all. How I'm going to get those doubles out, I have no idea... You let slip a few details like the weights, and what kind of hole they are in you might get useful advise. Impossible to advise beyond sometimes a comealong and a 12 inch plank might come in handy. Trolling is OK, but you need better bait. Casady |
New Batteries?
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:25:48 -0500, Molesworth
wrote: And there's not a lot of load ampere-wise - florescent lights, mast lights, hot water (on occassion), laptop, depth meter, GPS, anchor winch .. that's about it, apart from the 4cyl 51HP Yanmar. Oh and I just bought a portable AC unit and an inverter (3000 amp). I already have a charger set up. Oh, and a refrigerator and the Lectra-San. Blimey. it adds up doesn't it? Sigh. Any guesses on my amperage requirement? You won't be able to run an AC unit or hot water heater very long from batteries, regardless of size. You need a generator or shore power for that. The only reason to buy a 3000 watt inverter is to get the extra charging capacity that usually comes with it. To charge at a 150 amp rate you will need a battery bank of at least 600 to 800 amp hours. The cheapest way to do that is with 6 to 8 golf cart batteries in series-parallel. Do you have a high capacity alternator on your Yanmar of at least 100 to 150 amps? If so you can use it as a generator of sorts, powering your inverter with DC and getting 1000 to 1500 watts of AC out. That will power a small AC. |
New Batteries?
Wayne.B wrote in
: You won't be able to run an AC unit or hot water heater very long from batteries, regardless of size. "Nothing is funnier than a yachtie with a new 4000 watt inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big grin on his face."...(c;) Larry -- Please - Turn OFF cruise control when you turn on windshield wipers! |
New Batteries?
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New Batteries?
In article ,
NoSeeUm wrote: I had two Rolls 4Ds and a Rolls 27. Plenty of juice for anything I wanted to do. All three batteries expired within days of the warranty expiring, four years. I replaced them with Exide truck batteries, same sizes. If I get two years out of them I will be ahead but I expect to get much more than two years from them. They is heavy suckers but we have a couple of line backers at the marina who can practically pick them, up with one hand. What sort of Exide? Ordinary heavy Duty wet cell? What is the difference between those and 'marine' batteries in the same category? -- Molesworth |
New Batteries?
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New Batteries?
NoSeeUm wrote in
: I had two Rolls 4Ds and a Rolls 27. Plenty of juice for anything I wanted to do. All three batteries expired within days of the warranty expiring, four years. Great engineering! Dead on! (no pun) ALL batteries are made of LEAD, Sulphuric Acid diluted with distilled water in a cheap plastic case (unless you have a source for rubber cases you can repair, which they all do everything they can do to prevent). The only difference, in the chemistry not the advertising, is how pure these 3 parts are. I doubt there's much difference in the purity. I think the biggest difference in them is their MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE.... That DOES make a big difference. Just trying to get a boater to water them PROPERLY NOT TAP WATER FROM HIS TANK is a major problem. Putting gallons of water in an abused battery is too late to save it. Larry -- Please - Turn OFF cruise control when you turn on windshield wipers! |
New Batteries?
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New Batteries?
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:54:33 +0000, Larry wrote:
"Nothing is funnier than a yachtie with a new 4000 watt inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big grin on his face." 4,000 watts is certainly overkill for a sailboat but we get a lot of mileage out of the 2,000 watt inverter on our trawler. Both engines have 120 amp alternators which are bridged into the house bank through automatic battery combiners. When underway we have almost totally eliminated the need for using the generator unless we need multiple zones of air conditioning. Normally we alternate between the freezer and the refrigeration system, both of which have holding plates. As an additional plus, the inverter doubles as a 150 amp 3 stage charger. I'll probably never do this but it would certainly be possible to put a 200 amp alternator on each engine and get a 5,000 watt inverter. That would allow the freezer and fridges to run at the same time plus a zone or two of air conditioning. We have reduced generator run time by at least 50% using the inverter, and that is worth quite a lot in reduced fuel, maintenance, and increased quietitude. |
New Batteries?
NoSeeUm wrote in news:1191410982_5725
@sp12lax.superfeed.net: I'll probably never do this but it would certainly be possible to put a 200 amp alternator on each engine and get a 5,000 watt inverter. That would allow the freezer and fridges to run at the same time plus a zone or two of air conditioning. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45416 10KVA peak for starting, 7.2KVA continuous duty for running... on sale for $299. 120/240, single phase AC. To get 3600 RPM means to get 60 Hz. You'll need to UP convert torque into speed at your economical cruise RPM of the main engine with enough parallel V-belts to handle 20HP, typically 2 but 4 will last lots longer. The output is electronic regulated to 120/240VAC inside the box on the back of the self-starting alternator. No external source is necessary to start it. These Chinese make a beautiful machine for such a cheap price at Harbor Freight. Turn it with your hand. Its ball bearings are as smooth as silk and as tight as a finely machined watch. It's extremely well balanced. If you're running the engine on a power boat at a relatively constant cruising speed, no sense running another 2 or 3 conversion inefficiencies when you can have real AC right off your belt drives. Simply shut down the loads before going into any situation where you must vary the RPM of the main engines, greatly. An extra 20hp load on them won't make that much difference to their already-terrible fuel mileage..... Every time I turn one of these, I wanna see a 1:2 or 1:3 pulley ratio turning it up 3600 RPM from a 1800 or 1200 RPM 3 cylinder Yanmar in a quiet cabinet. 10KW is a LOT of power! BIG DISCOUNT IN PRICE for the last year or so! Larry -- Please - Turn OFF cruise control when you turn on windshield wipers! |
New Batteries?
Larry wrote:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45416 10KVA peak for starting, 7.2KVA continuous duty for running... on sale for $299. 120/240, single phase AC. To get 3600 RPM means to get 60 Hz. You'll need to UP convert torque into speed at your economical cruise RPM of the main engine with enough parallel V-belts to handle 20HP, typically 2 but 4 will last lots longer. The output is electronic regulated to 120/240VAC inside the box on the back of the self-starting alternator. No external source is necessary to start it. These Chinese make a beautiful machine for such a cheap price at Harbor Freight. Turn it with your hand. Its ball bearings are as smooth as silk and as tight as a finely machined watch. It's extremely well balanced. If you're running the engine on a power boat at a relatively constant cruising speed, no sense running another 2 or 3 conversion inefficiencies when you can have real AC right off your belt drives. Simply shut down the loads before going into any situation where you must vary the RPM of the main engines, greatly. An extra 20hp load on them won't make that much difference to their already-terrible fuel mileage..... Every time I turn one of these, I wanna see a 1:2 or 1:3 pulley ratio turning it up 3600 RPM from a 1800 or 1200 RPM 3 cylinder Yanmar in a quiet cabinet. 10KW is a LOT of power! BIG DISCOUNT IN PRICE for the last year or so! Larry Hey Larry, That hummer looks interesting. But... Forgetting to disconnect the electrical load before throttling could make a mess of those expensive electronics. Sounds like the perfect job for a PIC or BASIC Stamp? Monitor RPM and dump the electrics if too high or low. Richard |
New Batteries?
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:32:11 +0000, Larry wrote:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45416 10KVA peak for starting, 7.2KVA continuous duty for running... on sale for $299. 120/240, single phase AC. To get 3600 RPM means to get 60 Hz. You'll need to UP convert torque into speed at your economical cruise RPM The price is right but it would be better if it had a speed regulated hydraulic drive, and if it was designed for the marine environment. For ordinary mortals with ordinary engines, high amperage alternators and an inverter are an easier way to go, and you can use the inverter at anchor with no engines running. |
New Batteries?
cavelamb himself wrote in news:13g8k92do2p18a3
@corp.supernews.com: Sounds like the perfect job for a PIC or BASIC Stamp? Monitor RPM and dump the electrics if too high or low. No, actually, if we had any brains, we'd stop installing 60 Hz alternators altogether in all boats the old-fashioned-way and install very high frequency, multiphase alternators on their engines, which put out massive power from a light, tiny package. THAT power is simply rectified and fed to a LARGE solid state AC power supply, which puts out a rock-solid 60 Hz, close enough in frequency to run an electric clock because it's set by a quartz crystal in its custom IC, at a rock-solid 120VAC up to the point it automatically trips out on overload, it being immune from overloads/shorts/being fried like a crap 60 hz generator with circuit breakers panting away. Honda just upgraded their line of these types of portable gensets to 6,500 watts: http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu6500is.htm I'm NOT suggesting this genset in the boat....I'm suggesting dumping putting heavy, bulky 60hz, fixed speed, power plants into these boats and put in a multi-source, marinized electronic generator using this technology to provide serious power from whichever power is available.... There is no reason this technology could not have TWO of these tiny, flywheel-sized, high frequency, multiphase alternators in a single power system, one on the main engine which feeds the electronic power generator underway from already-available engine power....and another on a tiny diesel easing along at some rediculously slow speed when on the hook or sailing with the main engine shut down. "Where do we put this??".....EASY! WHERE THOSE TROUBLESOME HUGE-ASSED BATTERY BANKS ARE LOCATED NOW! We convert the WHOLE BOAT to 120VAC, 60Hz HOUSE ELECTRICITY and dump the lead monsters overboard! No charger, no watering, no $400 each superbatteries that can't power anything much useful over 100 watts....all of it! The electronic generator will NOT be mounted in the engine compartment, that's totally unnecessary. The electronics should be in a cooler place, maybe part of the AC power panel. They're quite small, even multikilowatt ones! They weigh as much as your stereo, which is larger. The ENGINE part of the power plant in a 6,500 watt genset is the size of a lawnmower engine....COMPLETE WITH THE HIGH FREQ ALTERNATOR, which is INSIDE the flywheel, much like the stator coils on an outboard motor! These two parts need NOT be colocated in the same location! A high voltage, low current multiphase cable merely connects them. Your 12V battery charging alternator already on your engine is a high- frequency, multiphase alternator, just like Tesla invented....TESLA, with the T. What's different with the new one is it's 400VAC, not 12VAC. The coils are smaller, more of them, and more efficient all the way around. The only thing on my dream boat 12V would be an emergency VHF running off the 12V starter battery if it all blew to hell. I might want the auxiliary genset engine starting from a separate little AGM motorcycle battery, for redundancy of the only other battery on the boat, the one that cranks the beast. All lighting, refridgeration, cooking appliances, pumps (except for one 12V bilge pump)....would all be 120VAC....DIRT CHEAP, not $200 at Waste Marine! Air conditioning? No problem! Just flip the AC breaker. We gots 7KW of electronic AC power plant....not some puny 500 AH of golf cart batteries going dead the minute you start to use them. How stupid. This electronic generator: http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu3000is.htm has been running my electronics shop for the last couple of years. It must have about 2500 hours on it. I bought it a new air filter. I bought it a spark plug, too, but it didn't need changing. I felt guilty. It powers the shop, including the TWO 8000 Btu window air conditioners from Korea, for about 8-9 hours a day on $6-7 in gas. With my running load, around 1680 watts with AC running, the engine is still in economy mode at around 1300 RPM, but its throttle has opened to maintain that speed. Adding the 40A charger, for instance, causes it to speed up to around 2000 RPM until the load drops off. Engine speed means NOTHING to electronic generators that electronically generate their sinewaves. (look at the waveform it generates near the bottom of the first webpage). For portable power, I still have my EU1000is suitcase portable Honda: http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu1000.htm the shop ran on the first year. 1KW isn't enough power for the shop with cooling. In winter, I mount it INSIDE the shop with its exhaust plumbed through a stainless gas pipe used as a heat exchanger, to power the shop. Running like this, albeit making noise, I suck all the heat out of its cooling system and exhaust before exhausting the engine gasses out the bottom of the truck so cool you can barely feel its warm....with lots of condensate water running out, too, under the van. It sucks its intake air from inside the van, making it a recirculating hot air heater, as well as a 1KW power plant. The tiny engine in it runs lots faster then the 3000 watt model's more traditional lawn mower engine. It, too, has a long history of troublefree operation...under considerable abuse...(c; If we're gonna build a new kind of pleasure boat power system, this technology is the way to go. If we want to run this power plant off of batteries, that's not impossible, either! The Ni-Mh battery banks in a hybrid car are WELL SUITED for this kind of service! They are also high voltage, low current sources....but won't run the AC all night. You can forget that without DIESEL or GAS power, so far. |
New Batteries?
Wayne.B wrote in
: and you can use the inverter at anchor with no engines running. You can't run it for long.....unless you have submarine batteries. Larry -- Please - Turn OFF cruise control when you turn on windshield wipers! |
New Batteries?
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:40:46 +0000, Larry wrote:
You can't run it for long.....unless you have submarine batteries. Not true. We run the inverter all night on 4 golf cart batteries, $55 each at Sam's Club, typical life 3 years, about 600 charge/discharge cycles at 30 to 50% average discharge, average load 10 to 20 amps. How long can you run a submarine on 4 golf cart batteries? |
New Batteries?
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:40:46 +0000, Larry wrote: You can't run it for long.....unless you have submarine batteries. Not true. We run the inverter all night on 4 golf cart batteries, powering what? |
New Batteries?
On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:17:54 -0400, "Scotty" wrote:
Not true. We run the inverter all night on 4 golf cart batteries, powering what? An under counter fridge, several cell phone chargers, a high efficiency flourescent light, several laptops on standby, and on cool nights, an electric blanket. |
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