|
Is a bell required?
I have a 50 foot sailboat, based in USA, sometimes sail to Canada and
Mexico. Is a bell required, if I have a horn? I'm tired of having this brass bell thing in the way, the horn works fine.. I use the horn in fog, have never used the bell. Will the homeland security gestapo crucify me if I'm boarded without a bell? |
Is a bell required?
wrote in message
oups.com... I have a 50 foot sailboat, based in USA, sometimes sail to Canada and Mexico. Is a bell required, if I have a horn? I'm tired of having this brass bell thing in the way, the horn works fine.. I use the horn in fog, have never used the bell. Will the homeland security gestapo crucify me if I'm boarded without a bell? Like Dave said, read the colregs. They are your friend. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Is a bell required?
On Sep 24, 2:48 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... I have a 50 foot sailboat, based in USA, sometimes sail to Canada and Mexico. Is a bell required, if I have a horn? I'm tired of having this brass bell thing in the way, the horn works fine.. I use the horn in fog, have never used the bell. Will the homeland security gestapo crucify me if I'm boarded without a bell? Like Dave said, read the colregs. They are your friend. -- "j" ganz Your bell must be EXACTLY the right pitch too. If it is just a little off, you get massive fines. HOWEVER, if you send the bell and $500, we will test the bell and tell you if it is ok. |
Is a bell required?
On Sep 24, 8:16 am, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:25:21 -0000, said: Is a bell required, if I have a horn? A more reliable way to get answers to questions like this than asking in the group is to look at the rules. http://www.boatingsafety.com/colregs.htm Rule 33. Actually, the most reliable way to get answers to these questions for USA waters is to ask the US Coast Guard. They are the controlling authority and what they say is law. You may argue with them in court if you like, but they win 100% of their cases so I wouldn't advise it. At any rate, rule 33 has been changed and the above url is out of date. See http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...vrules2003.htm. You are not required to have a bell on your 50' vessel. It might be a good idea to print out the pdf of the new rule and keep it in your rule book. -- Tom. |
Is a bell required?
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
oups.com... On Sep 24, 2:48 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... I have a 50 foot sailboat, based in USA, sometimes sail to Canada and Mexico. Is a bell required, if I have a horn? I'm tired of having this brass bell thing in the way, the horn works fine.. I use the horn in fog, have never used the bell. Will the homeland security gestapo crucify me if I'm boarded without a bell? Like Dave said, read the colregs. They are your friend. -- "j" ganz Your bell must be EXACTLY the right pitch too. If it is just a little off, you get massive fines. HOWEVER, if you send the bell and $500, we will test the bell and tell you if it is ok. I just put mine in the mail!! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Is a bell required?
Your bell must be EXACTLY the right pitch too. If it is just a little
off, you get massive fines. HOWEVER, if you send the bell and $500, we will test the bell and tell you if it is ok. Hey, I've got a better deal! Since the bell isn't required just send me $500 and I'll tell you it is ok. That saves you postage! -- Tom. |
Is a bell required?
wrote in message
ups.com... Your bell must be EXACTLY the right pitch too. If it is just a little off, you get massive fines. HOWEVER, if you send the bell and $500, we will test the bell and tell you if it is ok. Hey, I've got a better deal! Since the bell isn't required just send me $500 and I'll tell you it is ok. That saves you postage! -- Tom. It is a very good question. Especially, with today's navigational equipment available to the pleasure boaters in Canada, for pleasure craft greater than 39 feet and not greater than 65 feet in length. A sound signalling device is require. As for the specifications of this device see the Canadian collision regulation: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...ml#ANNEX%20III --Denis |
Is a bell required?
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:23:49 -0700, "
wrote: On Sep 24, 8:16 am, Dave wrote: On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:25:21 -0000, said: Is a bell required, if I have a horn? A more reliable way to get answers to questions like this than asking in the group is to look at the rules. http://www.boatingsafety.com/colregs.htm Rule 33. Actually, the most reliable way to get answers to these questions for USA waters is to ask the US Coast Guard. They are the controlling authority and what they say is law. You may argue with them in court if you like, but they win 100% of their cases so I wouldn't advise it. At any rate, rule 33 has been changed and the above url is out of date. See http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...vrules2003.htm. You are not required to have a bell on your 50' vessel. It might be a good idea to print out the pdf of the new rule and keep it in your rule book. Second all of that. Personally, I wouldn't trust anybody but the CG inspectors on a question like this. They enforce the law as it's enforced, not as it's written. Even then, you may get different interpretations. It's your ass at stake, so err on the side of that. Maybe you've noticed that nobody gave you a direct answer to a simple question. I suspect that's because they can't understand the regs, or refuse to come to a conclusion on what they mean. That's not surprising. This country can't even decide if it has real borders. --Vic |
Is a bell required?
On Sep 24, 10:18 am, Vic Smith
wrote: ... Second all of that. Personally, I wouldn't trust anybody but the CG inspectors on a question like this. They enforce the law as it's enforced, not as it's written. Even then, you may get different interpretations. ... Too true. I removed my original post because contrary to what I had been told a close reading of the current rules suggest that for INLAND use the bell is still required... However, the bell is no longer on the vessel safety check and a bit of research gave me this (http:// safetyseal.net/what_is_vsc.asp) for a "virtual safety check" where they say: quote Item 8 - Sound Producing Devices / Bell: To comply with Navigation Rules and for distress signaling purposes all boats must carry a sound producing device (whistle, horn, siren, etc.) capable of a 4-second blast audible for ½ mile. *Boats larger than 39.4 ft. are also required to have a bell (see Navigation Rules.) *Under a recent change, a vessel 12 meters (39.4 ft) to less than 20 meters (65 ft) is no longer required to carry a bell on board. The Coast Guard said: "The bottom-line, a bell is no longer required on a vessel less than 20 meters in length. That of course means a bell is not required for those same vessels for successful completion of a VSC." end quote Mind you, how hard is it to stow a 200mm bell on a 50 foot yacht? -- Tom. |
Is a bell required?
wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... Your bell must be EXACTLY the right pitch too. If it is just a little off, you get massive fines. HOWEVER, if you send the bell and $500, we will test the bell and tell you if it is ok. Hey, I've got a better deal! Since the bell isn't required just send me $500 and I'll tell you it is ok. That saves you postage! -- Tom. It is a very good question. Especially, with today's navigational equipment available to the pleasure boaters in Canada, for pleasure craft greater than 39 feet and not greater than 65 feet in length. A sound signalling device is require. As for the specifications of this device see the Canadian collision regulation: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...ml#ANNEX%20III --Denis Here's a direct link to the sound signal specification: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...a14.html#ANNEX III -- Denis http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...a14.html#ANNEX III |
Is a bell required?
wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... Your bell must be EXACTLY the right pitch too. If it is just a little off, you get massive fines. HOWEVER, if you send the bell and $500, we will test the bell and tell you if it is ok. Hey, I've got a better deal! Since the bell isn't required just send me $500 and I'll tell you it is ok. That saves you postage! -- Tom. It is a very good question. Especially, with today's navigational equipment available to the pleasure boaters in Canada, for pleasure craft greater than 39 feet and not greater than 65 feet in length. A sound signalling device is require. As for the specifications of this device see the Canadian collision regulation: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...ml#ANNEX%20III --Denis Just to share this information, you may already know about it. I just purchased an extra signal horn similar to the one already on board and inspected by the Canadian Guard Guard in Aug. 2007 Its made in the US see http://www.falconsignalhorns.com/def...spx?pageid=304. It states that it meets the US Coast Guard and can be heard up to 1 mile away. So I one can heard a bell from 1 mile away it could pass the safety inspection?? A bell does not have to be refilled witn compressed gas safe for ozone and if maintain in good shape will operate at all time. In the Bay of Fundy pleasure crafts and commercial fishermen do not rely on a bells for navigation in the fog. Current navigational aids and fog horn are used I would get some compress gas signal horns and keep the bell as a back up. |
Is a bell required?
On Sep 24, 1:29 pm, " wrote:
The Coast Guard said: "The bottom-line, a bell is no longer required on a vessel less than 20 meters in length. That of course means a bell is not required for those same vessels for successful completion of a VSC." Mind you, how hard is it to stow a 200mm bell on a 50 foot yacht? -- Tom. Dear Tom and others............. Dont go ringing your bell as if you were a vessel over 20m. Why??? Cause people are going to think youre a vessel over 20m and manouver as if. ALl the light and sound signals have a specific message. Dont be saying/showing one thing and be anouther. Bob |
Is a bell required?
On Sep 24, 3:02 pm, Bob wrote:
... Dont go ringing your bell as if you were a vessel over 20m. Why??? Cause people are going to think youre a vessel over 20m. ... Having blundered around with the rule changes several times today I'm reluctant to jump in again but it seems to me that if you have a bell or something that makes a bell sound then you should use it if you are over 12m just like you used to before 2003. For INTERNATIONAL waters 33 and 35 no longer require the bell for 12-20 meters and allow the substitution of some other sound signal. I think that the wording "not be obligated ... however, if she does not" in 35, implies that the bell is still allowed or even preferred. As written, the INLAND rules still REQUIRES the bell under rules 33 and 35 for 12 meters in the USA, but I have it from several sources, some of them usually reliable, that the Coast Guard is enforcing the INTERNATIONAL version of rules 33 and 35 even INLAND. However, only the USGG can make the determination of what the rule is in US waters. To get a definitive answer the OP will have to ask them. -- Tom. |
Is a bell required?
... However, only the USGG can make the
determination of what the rule is in US waters. To get a definitive answer the OP will have to ask them. ... You may ask them he http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/misc/NIS_contact_us.htm -- Tom. |
Is a bell required?
On Sep 24, 4:28 pm, " wrote:
... However, only the USGG can make the determination of what the rule is in US waters. To get a definitive answer the OP will have to ask them. ... You may ask them hehttp://www.navcen.uscg.gov/misc/NIS_contact_us.htm -- Tom. And, to reply to my post again, I did check and they said you still need a bell. So I was wrong. Again. The quote follows: Greetings: I understand there has been some confusion concerning the requirement for a bell and the sounding of it. Our interpretation of Rule 33 Inland is based on checking with our Maritime and International Law office. My office posed the following question after the change was made to COLREGS that vessels 12 meters or more but less than 20 meters no longer require a bell. How does Inland Rule 1(b)(ii) apply? For example a 15 meter vessel constructed to per International regs does not need a bell. Now that vessel wants to operate in US Inland waters where Inland Rules apply. Does it need a bell? The answer is: Yes, until the Inland Rules are changed (and currently they are statutory), a vessel that operates on waters subject to those rules must comply with those rules, not withstanding that I doesn't have to be equipped with a bell when it is on COLREGs waters. While the manufacturer does not need to ensure that the vessel is constructed with a bell, the operator is responsible to sound the appropriate sound signals per Inland Rules. As a side note, while COLREGS eliminated the bell, the COLREGS do state: (i) A vessel of 12 meters or more but less than 20 meters in length shall not be obliged to give the bell signals prescribed in paragraphs (g) and (h) of this Rule. However, if she does not, she shall make some other efficient sound signal at intervals of not more than 2 minutes. The vessel is still required on COLREGs to provide some kind of sound signal. We hope this addresses your inquiry. In our continuing efforts to provide service to the public, please inform us if this answer was helpful. Sincerely, USCG Navigation Center Navigation Information Service 7323 Telegraph Rd. Alexandria, VA 22315 Tel: 703-313-5900 Website: www.navcen.uscg.go |
Is a bell required?
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:12:19 -0000, "
wrote: Having blundered around with the rule changes several times today I'm reluctant to jump in again but it seems to me that if you have a bell or something that makes a bell sound then you should use it if you are over 12m just like you used to before 2003. For INTERNATIONAL waters 33 and 35 no longer require the bell for 12-20 meters and allow the substitution of some other sound signal. I think that the wording "not be obligated ... however, if she does not" in 35, implies that the bell is still allowed or even preferred. As written, the INLAND rules still REQUIRES the bell under rules 33 and 35 for 12 meters in the USA, but I have it from several sources, some of them usually reliable, that the Coast Guard is enforcing the INTERNATIONAL version of rules 33 and 35 even INLAND. However, only the USGG can make the determination of what the rule is in US waters. To get a definitive answer the OP will have to ask them. In truth the only boat that I have ever heard using a bell in the fog is the Staten Island ferry. The small bells used on most pleasure boats are virtually inaudible over engine noise in my experience. There's really nothing like a good air horn if you want to be heard. The only time I've ever been boarded/inspected by USCG was several years ago on inland waters. They had no interest in the bell at all. Their hot buttons that day were life preservers, throwable device, fire extinguishers, horn and documents. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:46 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com