More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship’s spring will often make you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip. Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That’s the hard way.

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

Thanks again for all the replies. Sometimes you don't have a crew to
assist! or the crew is temporarily unfit to assist with lines (as was the
case with me last time)


"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

Thanks again for all the replies. Sometimes you don't have a crew to
assist! or the crew is temporarily unfit to assist with lines (as was the
case with me last time)


"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 05:47:15 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

Thanks again for all the replies. Sometimes you don't have a crew to
assist! or the crew is temporarily unfit to assist with lines (as was the
case with me last time)

Try using a single line docking system.
-Find a point about one quarter of the distance from the stern to the
bow. (You may have to experiment a bit)
-Attach a line to this point.
-Tie this line to the dock, opposite your transom.
-Put the engine in forward.
-With the rubber centered, the boat should pull itself into the dock.
-Adjusting the rudder will move the bow into or away from the dock.

When you need to dock single-handed (or with incompetent crew)
-Attach bow and stern breast lines.
-Attach the single as above.
-After you dock, put the boat in neutral.
-Tie the single line opposite the transom.
-Engage forward gear - no throttle.
-Adjust rudder until boat sits in desired position.
-Attach breast lines and stern lines.
-Disengage transmission.

Voila - this works bow or stern to.

When leaving dock (stern to) use the single line.
-Run it around the dock or cleat back to aft mooring cleat.
-Engage forward.
-Adjust rudder for angle to leave dock.
-Uncleat line.
-Leave the dock.

I have used it bow-to and stern-to single-handed in tight conditions.

I like it (if you cannot tell).

Jack





"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 05:47:15 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

Thanks again for all the replies. Sometimes you don't have a crew to
assist! or the crew is temporarily unfit to assist with lines (as was the
case with me last time)

Try using a single line docking system.
-Find a point about one quarter of the distance from the stern to the
bow. (You may have to experiment a bit)
-Attach a line to this point.
-Tie this line to the dock, opposite your transom.
-Put the engine in forward.
-With the rubber centered, the boat should pull itself into the dock.
-Adjusting the rudder will move the bow into or away from the dock.

When you need to dock single-handed (or with incompetent crew)
-Attach bow and stern breast lines.
-Attach the single as above.
-After you dock, put the boat in neutral.
-Tie the single line opposite the transom.
-Engage forward gear - no throttle.
-Adjust rudder until boat sits in desired position.
-Attach breast lines and stern lines.
-Disengage transmission.

Voila - this works bow or stern to.

When leaving dock (stern to) use the single line.
-Run it around the dock or cleat back to aft mooring cleat.
-Engage forward.
-Adjust rudder for angle to leave dock.
-Uncleat line.
-Leave the dock.

I have used it bow-to and stern-to single-handed in tight conditions.

I like it (if you cannot tell).

Jack





"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

Jack,

Excellent information, thank you. A few things:

-you will probably need a well-fendered bow for these maneuvers. Docking and
especially undocking as you describe can entail sitting at quite an angle to
the dock, pushing into that dock with the curve of the bow rather the "flat"
of the topsides;

-I find in my past planing and semi-planing hulls that if you're talking
about winds in the 15 kt plus range, that even the techniques you describe
can get pretty hairy. By the time I get close enough to attach my lines, and
then put the throttle to idle and the tranmission in neutral, go and attach
the line, and return to the helm (just a few steps), all hell can have
broken loose. There are clever ways around this (viz. a fascinating thread
with Karen from Australia last year), but it's a bit of an advanced
procedure, and I hesitate to recommend it to beginners, for fear of being
complicit in causing them some grief. What are your limits for being able to
do this?

-for the undocking sequence you favour, I have a question about uncleating
the line: you say to push the stern away from the dock with power, forward
gear, rudder turned towards the dock, and I can see the boat yawing, the
after amidships spring holding the bow in to the dock and the stern swinging
out - then how do you get at the cleat, on the dock, now out of arm's length
from the stern, to uncleat it?

-some of the docks I frequent use rings rather than cleats, and I haven't
decided on the best way to attach quickly (and temporarily) to a ring in
heavy weather, for the "power spring" techniques you're extolling, although
I always figure something out, but it's a bit of an impromptu affair every
time, with many variables coming into play. An old trick that I don't use
very much any more but is handy to have in my armamentarium, is a line
attached to the boat at both ends - a bight of this could be passed through
a ring, quickly secured by a knot (or back over a transom cleat), and made
to function as a variation of the after amidships spring you describe.

Any of that gel with you?

Charles

P.S. This and various other techniques have allowed me to go boating on
windy days when lots of other boaters stand at their bow rail, gazing
wistfully out at the open water.

P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of my
slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method.

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
Try using a single line docking system.
-Find a point about one quarter of the distance from the stern to the
bow. (You may have to experiment a bit)
-Attach a line to this point.
-Tie this line to the dock, opposite your transom.
-Put the engine in forward.
-With the rubber centered, the boat should pull itself into the dock.
-Adjusting the rudder will move the bow into or away from the dock.

When you need to dock single-handed (or with incompetent crew)
-Attach bow and stern breast lines.
-Attach the single as above.
-After you dock, put the boat in neutral.
-Tie the single line opposite the transom.
-Engage forward gear - no throttle.
-Adjust rudder until boat sits in desired position.
-Attach breast lines and stern lines.
-Disengage transmission.

Voila - this works bow or stern to.

When leaving dock (stern to) use the single line.
-Run it around the dock or cleat back to aft mooring cleat.
-Engage forward.
-Adjust rudder for angle to leave dock.
-Uncleat line.
-Leave the dock.

I have used it bow-to and stern-to single-handed in tight conditions.

I like it (if you cannot tell).

Jack

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

Jack,

Excellent information, thank you. A few things:

-you will probably need a well-fendered bow for these maneuvers. Docking and
especially undocking as you describe can entail sitting at quite an angle to
the dock, pushing into that dock with the curve of the bow rather the "flat"
of the topsides;

-I find in my past planing and semi-planing hulls that if you're talking
about winds in the 15 kt plus range, that even the techniques you describe
can get pretty hairy. By the time I get close enough to attach my lines, and
then put the throttle to idle and the tranmission in neutral, go and attach
the line, and return to the helm (just a few steps), all hell can have
broken loose. There are clever ways around this (viz. a fascinating thread
with Karen from Australia last year), but it's a bit of an advanced
procedure, and I hesitate to recommend it to beginners, for fear of being
complicit in causing them some grief. What are your limits for being able to
do this?

-for the undocking sequence you favour, I have a question about uncleating
the line: you say to push the stern away from the dock with power, forward
gear, rudder turned towards the dock, and I can see the boat yawing, the
after amidships spring holding the bow in to the dock and the stern swinging
out - then how do you get at the cleat, on the dock, now out of arm's length
from the stern, to uncleat it?

-some of the docks I frequent use rings rather than cleats, and I haven't
decided on the best way to attach quickly (and temporarily) to a ring in
heavy weather, for the "power spring" techniques you're extolling, although
I always figure something out, but it's a bit of an impromptu affair every
time, with many variables coming into play. An old trick that I don't use
very much any more but is handy to have in my armamentarium, is a line
attached to the boat at both ends - a bight of this could be passed through
a ring, quickly secured by a knot (or back over a transom cleat), and made
to function as a variation of the after amidships spring you describe.

Any of that gel with you?

Charles

P.S. This and various other techniques have allowed me to go boating on
windy days when lots of other boaters stand at their bow rail, gazing
wistfully out at the open water.

P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of my
slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method.

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
Try using a single line docking system.
-Find a point about one quarter of the distance from the stern to the
bow. (You may have to experiment a bit)
-Attach a line to this point.
-Tie this line to the dock, opposite your transom.
-Put the engine in forward.
-With the rubber centered, the boat should pull itself into the dock.
-Adjusting the rudder will move the bow into or away from the dock.

When you need to dock single-handed (or with incompetent crew)
-Attach bow and stern breast lines.
-Attach the single as above.
-After you dock, put the boat in neutral.
-Tie the single line opposite the transom.
-Engage forward gear - no throttle.
-Adjust rudder until boat sits in desired position.
-Attach breast lines and stern lines.
-Disengage transmission.

Voila - this works bow or stern to.

When leaving dock (stern to) use the single line.
-Run it around the dock or cleat back to aft mooring cleat.
-Engage forward.
-Adjust rudder for angle to leave dock.
-Uncleat line.
-Leave the dock.

I have used it bow-to and stern-to single-handed in tight conditions.

I like it (if you cannot tell).

Jack

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

"Charles T. Low" wrote in message
...


P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of
my
slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method.


One hammerlock, suitably applied... :{))

L8R

Skip

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

"Charles T. Low" wrote in message
...


P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of
my
slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method.


One hammerlock, suitably applied... :{))

L8R

Skip

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

If you are single handing or need to keep everyone onboard while
undocking, set you lines up as "bights".
Put the eye on the cleat on you boat and run a "bight" through the
chock, around the cleat on the dock and back to your cleat (make fast) .
When ready to let go, disconnect from cleat on your boat and flip off
from dock cleat.

otn

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

If you are single handing or need to keep everyone onboard while
undocking, set you lines up as "bights".
Put the eye on the cleat on you boat and run a "bight" through the
chock, around the cleat on the dock and back to your cleat (make fast) .
When ready to let go, disconnect from cleat on your boat and flip off
from dock cleat.

otn

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?


"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?


"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

Bow thruster? Big boat pole? Normally you would just spring the stern out,
back away, then proceed.

"George C." wrote in message
news:m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01...
Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my
bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would
turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option.
I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?


"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out
into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels
and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

Bow thruster? Big boat pole? Normally you would just spring the stern out,
back away, then proceed.

"George C." wrote in message
news:m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01...
Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my
bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would
turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option.
I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?


"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out
into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels
and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

"P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of
my
slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method."

I don't know the Karen method, Charles, but it helps to know, in this case,
which way the wind is blowing or coming from ;-)
BTW I'm also twisting your non steering arm g Just in case you need it.
--
c ya Wim
www.cruising.ca/thousand/f-index.html


"Charles T. Low" wrote in message
...
: Jack,
:
: Excellent information, thank you. A few things:
:
: -you will probably need a well-fendered bow for these maneuvers. Docking
and
: especially undocking as you describe can entail sitting at quite an angle
to
: the dock, pushing into that dock with the curve of the bow rather the
"flat"
: of the topsides;
:
: -I find in my past planing and semi-planing hulls that if you're talking
: about winds in the 15 kt plus range, that even the techniques you describe
: can get pretty hairy. By the time I get close enough to attach my lines,
and
: then put the throttle to idle and the tranmission in neutral, go and
attach
: the line, and return to the helm (just a few steps), all hell can have
: broken loose. There are clever ways around this (viz. a fascinating thread
: with Karen from Australia last year), but it's a bit of an advanced
: procedure, and I hesitate to recommend it to beginners, for fear of being
: complicit in causing them some grief. What are your limits for being able
to
: do this?
:
: -for the undocking sequence you favour, I have a question about uncleating
: the line: you say to push the stern away from the dock with power, forward
: gear, rudder turned towards the dock, and I can see the boat yawing, the
: after amidships spring holding the bow in to the dock and the stern
swinging
: out - then how do you get at the cleat, on the dock, now out of arm's
length
: from the stern, to uncleat it?
:
: -some of the docks I frequent use rings rather than cleats, and I haven't
: decided on the best way to attach quickly (and temporarily) to a ring in
: heavy weather, for the "power spring" techniques you're extolling,
although
: I always figure something out, but it's a bit of an impromptu affair every
: time, with many variables coming into play. An old trick that I don't use
: very much any more but is handy to have in my armamentarium, is a line
: attached to the boat at both ends - a bight of this could be passed
through
: a ring, quickly secured by a knot (or back over a transom cleat), and made
: to function as a variation of the after amidships spring you describe.
:
: Any of that gel with you?
:
: Charles
:
: P.S. This and various other techniques have allowed me to go boating on
: windy days when lots of other boaters stand at their bow rail, gazing
: wistfully out at the open water.
:
: P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of
my
: slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method.
:
: ====
:
: Charles T. Low
: - remove "UN"
: www.boatdocking.com
: www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat
:
: ====
:
: "Jack Dale" wrote in message
: ...
: Try using a single line docking system.
: -Find a point about one quarter of the distance from the stern to the
: bow. (You may have to experiment a bit)
: -Attach a line to this point.
: -Tie this line to the dock, opposite your transom.
: -Put the engine in forward.
: -With the rubber centered, the boat should pull itself into the dock.
: -Adjusting the rudder will move the bow into or away from the dock.
:
: When you need to dock single-handed (or with incompetent crew)
: -Attach bow and stern breast lines.
: -Attach the single as above.
: -After you dock, put the boat in neutral.
: -Tie the single line opposite the transom.
: -Engage forward gear - no throttle.
: -Adjust rudder until boat sits in desired position.
: -Attach breast lines and stern lines.
: -Disengage transmission.
:
: Voila - this works bow or stern to.
:
: When leaving dock (stern to) use the single line.
: -Run it around the dock or cleat back to aft mooring cleat.
: -Engage forward.
: -Adjust rudder for angle to leave dock.
: -Uncleat line.
: -Leave the dock.
:
: I have used it bow-to and stern-to single-handed in tight conditions.
:
: I like it (if you cannot tell).
:
: Jack
:
:

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

"P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of
my
slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method."

I don't know the Karen method, Charles, but it helps to know, in this case,
which way the wind is blowing or coming from ;-)
BTW I'm also twisting your non steering arm g Just in case you need it.
--
c ya Wim
www.cruising.ca/thousand/f-index.html


"Charles T. Low" wrote in message
...
: Jack,
:
: Excellent information, thank you. A few things:
:
: -you will probably need a well-fendered bow for these maneuvers. Docking
and
: especially undocking as you describe can entail sitting at quite an angle
to
: the dock, pushing into that dock with the curve of the bow rather the
"flat"
: of the topsides;
:
: -I find in my past planing and semi-planing hulls that if you're talking
: about winds in the 15 kt plus range, that even the techniques you describe
: can get pretty hairy. By the time I get close enough to attach my lines,
and
: then put the throttle to idle and the tranmission in neutral, go and
attach
: the line, and return to the helm (just a few steps), all hell can have
: broken loose. There are clever ways around this (viz. a fascinating thread
: with Karen from Australia last year), but it's a bit of an advanced
: procedure, and I hesitate to recommend it to beginners, for fear of being
: complicit in causing them some grief. What are your limits for being able
to
: do this?
:
: -for the undocking sequence you favour, I have a question about uncleating
: the line: you say to push the stern away from the dock with power, forward
: gear, rudder turned towards the dock, and I can see the boat yawing, the
: after amidships spring holding the bow in to the dock and the stern
swinging
: out - then how do you get at the cleat, on the dock, now out of arm's
length
: from the stern, to uncleat it?
:
: -some of the docks I frequent use rings rather than cleats, and I haven't
: decided on the best way to attach quickly (and temporarily) to a ring in
: heavy weather, for the "power spring" techniques you're extolling,
although
: I always figure something out, but it's a bit of an impromptu affair every
: time, with many variables coming into play. An old trick that I don't use
: very much any more but is handy to have in my armamentarium, is a line
: attached to the boat at both ends - a bight of this could be passed
through
: a ring, quickly secured by a knot (or back over a transom cleat), and made
: to function as a variation of the after amidships spring you describe.
:
: Any of that gel with you?
:
: Charles
:
: P.S. This and various other techniques have allowed me to go boating on
: windy days when lots of other boaters stand at their bow rail, gazing
: wistfully out at the open water.
:
: P.S. If you twist my arm, I'll tell you how I'm working on getting out of
my
: slip in a heavy wind, single-handed - a variation on the Karen method.
:
: ====
:
: Charles T. Low
: - remove "UN"
: www.boatdocking.com
: www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat
:
: ====
:
: "Jack Dale" wrote in message
: ...
: Try using a single line docking system.
: -Find a point about one quarter of the distance from the stern to the
: bow. (You may have to experiment a bit)
: -Attach a line to this point.
: -Tie this line to the dock, opposite your transom.
: -Put the engine in forward.
: -With the rubber centered, the boat should pull itself into the dock.
: -Adjusting the rudder will move the bow into or away from the dock.
:
: When you need to dock single-handed (or with incompetent crew)
: -Attach bow and stern breast lines.
: -Attach the single as above.
: -After you dock, put the boat in neutral.
: -Tie the single line opposite the transom.
: -Engage forward gear - no throttle.
: -Adjust rudder until boat sits in desired position.
: -Attach breast lines and stern lines.
: -Disengage transmission.
:
: Voila - this works bow or stern to.
:
: When leaving dock (stern to) use the single line.
: -Run it around the dock or cleat back to aft mooring cleat.
: -Engage forward.
: -Adjust rudder for angle to leave dock.
: -Uncleat line.
: -Leave the dock.
:
: I have used it bow-to and stern-to single-handed in tight conditions.
:
: I like it (if you cannot tell).
:
: Jack
:
:

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:46:50 -0500, "Charles T. Low"
wrote:

Jack,

Excellent information, thank you. A few things:

THANK YOU - one caveat: I am much more experienced with using this
technique with sailboats. I am assured by power boat instructors that
this works well on "keelless" vessels as well.


-you will probably need a well-fendered bow for these maneuvers. Docking and
especially undocking as you describe can entail sitting at quite an angle to
the dock, pushing into that dock with the curve of the bow rather the "flat"
of the topsides;

If the aft docking line is positioned properly (after some
experimentation) the boat will sit square to the dock.


-I find in my past planing and semi-planing hulls that if you're talking
about winds in the 15 kt plus range, that even the techniques you describe
can get pretty hairy. By the time I get close enough to attach my lines, and
then put the throttle to idle and the tranmission in neutral, go and attach
the line, and return to the helm (just a few steps), all hell can have
broken loose. There are clever ways around this (viz. a fascinating thread
with Karen from Australia last year), but it's a bit of an advanced
procedure, and I hesitate to recommend it to beginners, for fear of being
complicit in causing them some grief. What are your limits for being able to
do this?

ISPA (International Sail and Power Association) teaches this a s
standard method for all levels. As a crew member goes ashore, there
is only one line with which to deal. Also, if you handing a line to a
person on the dock (not recommended) you can tell them to tie off
opposite the stern.


-for the undocking sequence you favour, I have a question about uncleating
the line: you say to push the stern away from the dock with power, forward
gear, rudder turned towards the dock, and I can see the boat yawing, the
after amidships spring holding the bow in to the dock and the stern swinging
out - then how do you get at the cleat, on the dock, now out of arm's length
from the stern, to uncleat it?

Run a bight around the cleat or the ring back to your deck cleat.
When ready to leave, uncleat and haul in the dock line.

For those with their own docks, consider setting a permanent line of
the proper length with hook that can be attached to the toe rail or
attachment point on the vessel.


-some of the docks I frequent use rings rather than cleats, and I haven't
decided on the best way to attach quickly (and temporarily) to a ring in
heavy weather, for the "power spring" techniques you're extolling, although
I always figure something out, but it's a bit of an impromptu affair every
time, with many variables coming into play. An old trick that I don't use
very much any more but is handy to have in my armamentarium, is a line
attached to the boat at both ends - a bight of this could be passed through
a ring, quickly secured by a knot (or back over a transom cleat), and made
to function as a variation of the after amidships spring you describe.

Any of that gel with you?


I have not tried this.

Jack

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:46:50 -0500, "Charles T. Low"
wrote:

Jack,

Excellent information, thank you. A few things:

THANK YOU - one caveat: I am much more experienced with using this
technique with sailboats. I am assured by power boat instructors that
this works well on "keelless" vessels as well.


-you will probably need a well-fendered bow for these maneuvers. Docking and
especially undocking as you describe can entail sitting at quite an angle to
the dock, pushing into that dock with the curve of the bow rather the "flat"
of the topsides;

If the aft docking line is positioned properly (after some
experimentation) the boat will sit square to the dock.


-I find in my past planing and semi-planing hulls that if you're talking
about winds in the 15 kt plus range, that even the techniques you describe
can get pretty hairy. By the time I get close enough to attach my lines, and
then put the throttle to idle and the tranmission in neutral, go and attach
the line, and return to the helm (just a few steps), all hell can have
broken loose. There are clever ways around this (viz. a fascinating thread
with Karen from Australia last year), but it's a bit of an advanced
procedure, and I hesitate to recommend it to beginners, for fear of being
complicit in causing them some grief. What are your limits for being able to
do this?

ISPA (International Sail and Power Association) teaches this a s
standard method for all levels. As a crew member goes ashore, there
is only one line with which to deal. Also, if you handing a line to a
person on the dock (not recommended) you can tell them to tie off
opposite the stern.


-for the undocking sequence you favour, I have a question about uncleating
the line: you say to push the stern away from the dock with power, forward
gear, rudder turned towards the dock, and I can see the boat yawing, the
after amidships spring holding the bow in to the dock and the stern swinging
out - then how do you get at the cleat, on the dock, now out of arm's length
from the stern, to uncleat it?

Run a bight around the cleat or the ring back to your deck cleat.
When ready to leave, uncleat and haul in the dock line.

For those with their own docks, consider setting a permanent line of
the proper length with hook that can be attached to the toe rail or
attachment point on the vessel.


-some of the docks I frequent use rings rather than cleats, and I haven't
decided on the best way to attach quickly (and temporarily) to a ring in
heavy weather, for the "power spring" techniques you're extolling, although
I always figure something out, but it's a bit of an impromptu affair every
time, with many variables coming into play. An old trick that I don't use
very much any more but is handy to have in my armamentarium, is a line
attached to the boat at both ends - a bight of this could be passed through
a ring, quickly secured by a knot (or back over a transom cleat), and made
to function as a variation of the after amidships spring you describe.

Any of that gel with you?


I have not tried this.

Jack

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

In article m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01,
"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

Haven't tried this, but perhaps: "spring" a dock line from as far back
on the dock as possible to the outboard transom cleat. Power forward,
possibly turning the rudder toward the dock to kick the stern out as
well. That should torque the bow around. Once you've turned enough, toss
the dock line back to the dockhand.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

In article m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01,
"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

Haven't tried this, but perhaps: "spring" a dock line from as far back
on the dock as possible to the outboard transom cleat. Power forward,
possibly turning the rudder toward the dock to kick the stern out as
well. That should torque the bow around. Once you've turned enough, toss
the dock line back to the dockhand.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:42:34 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In article m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01,
"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to =
my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I =
would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an =
option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern =
will
get crushed. What to do?

Haven't tried this, but perhaps: "spring" a dock line from as far back=20
on the dock as possible to the outboard transom cleat. Power forward,=20
possibly turning the rudder toward the dock to kick the stern out as=20
well. That should torque the bow around. Once you've turned enough, toss=
=20
the dock line back to the dockhand.

We've done something like this but not quite. We powered forward, =
turning
the wheel as to turn into the dock with a dock line on the bow cleat. =
This
caused the stern to move away from the dock. Of course if the dock had =
not
been well padded, we would have needed a large fender to protect the bow
from the dock.

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:42:34 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In article m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01,
"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to =
my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I =
would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an =
option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern =
will
get crushed. What to do?

Haven't tried this, but perhaps: "spring" a dock line from as far back=20
on the dock as possible to the outboard transom cleat. Power forward,=20
possibly turning the rudder toward the dock to kick the stern out as=20
well. That should torque the bow around. Once you've turned enough, toss=
=20
the dock line back to the dockhand.

We've done something like this but not quite. We powered forward, =
turning
the wheel as to turn into the dock with a dock line on the bow cleat. =
This
caused the stern to move away from the dock. Of course if the dock had =
not
been well padded, we would have needed a large fender to protect the bow
from the dock.

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

In article ,
Loren Block wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:42:34 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In article m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01,
"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my
bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would
turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option.
I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

Haven't tried this, but perhaps: "spring" a dock line from as far back
on the dock as possible to the outboard transom cleat. Power forward,
possibly turning the rudder toward the dock to kick the stern out as
well. That should torque the bow around. Once you've turned enough, toss
the dock line back to the dockhand.

We've done something like this but not quite. We powered forward, turning
the wheel as to turn into the dock with a dock line on the bow cleat. This
caused the stern to move away from the dock. Of course if the dock had not
been well padded, we would have needed a large fender to protect the bow
from the dock.

We've done that many times. Our hull and rub rail are beefy enough that
I don't worry much about damage, but some of my powerboat friends aren't
as blessed.

The significant adverse wind got me thinking. If we were port to the
dock, I'd have to be VERY aggressive in the backing and would have very
little margin of error with our significant walk to port. While Xan's
bow is beefy, I'm not sure I'd want to solidly plant it on the dock
before backing, and am not sure I could put us at the required 30 or so
degree cant with a simple spring line to the bow.

Tying a dockline to the outboard transom cleat, if it works, would put
us bow to the wind, in forward gear. We don't have a swim platform, but
our rudder, ladder and kicker are hung back there. Since I built the
rudder, I know I can rebuild it, but I'd hate to have to during the
season. May-October (our sailing season), I do only absolutely necessary
maintenance and get real irritable in the process.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

In article ,
Loren Block wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:42:34 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

In article m4yLb.57930$PK3.42234@okepread01,
"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my
bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would
turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option.
I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

Haven't tried this, but perhaps: "spring" a dock line from as far back
on the dock as possible to the outboard transom cleat. Power forward,
possibly turning the rudder toward the dock to kick the stern out as
well. That should torque the bow around. Once you've turned enough, toss
the dock line back to the dockhand.

We've done something like this but not quite. We powered forward, turning
the wheel as to turn into the dock with a dock line on the bow cleat. This
caused the stern to move away from the dock. Of course if the dock had not
been well padded, we would have needed a large fender to protect the bow
from the dock.

We've done that many times. Our hull and rub rail are beefy enough that
I don't worry much about damage, but some of my powerboat friends aren't
as blessed.

The significant adverse wind got me thinking. If we were port to the
dock, I'd have to be VERY aggressive in the backing and would have very
little margin of error with our significant walk to port. While Xan's
bow is beefy, I'm not sure I'd want to solidly plant it on the dock
before backing, and am not sure I could put us at the required 30 or so
degree cant with a simple spring line to the bow.

Tying a dockline to the outboard transom cleat, if it works, would put
us bow to the wind, in forward gear. We don't have a swim platform, but
our rudder, ladder and kicker are hung back there. Since I built the
rudder, I know I can rebuild it, but I'd hate to have to during the
season. May-October (our sailing season), I do only absolutely necessary
maintenance and get real irritable in the process.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

This has worked for me in the past (no bow thruster, too much wind to
push off): Take a line from a cleat on the pier (behind the stern of
the boat) to your seaward stern cleat. Fender your stern off. Helm
towards the pier, throttle ahead.... You may need quite a bit of
throttle and your cleat might start moaning but in the end your bow
will swing out just nicely.
Seems to be a manouvre that is not seen often, but it does work.

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

This has worked for me in the past (no bow thruster, too much wind to
push off): Take a line from a cleat on the pier (behind the stern of
the boat) to your seaward stern cleat. Fender your stern off. Helm
towards the pier, throttle ahead.... You may need quite a bit of
throttle and your cleat might start moaning but in the end your bow
will swing out just nicely.
Seems to be a manouvre that is not seen often, but it does work.

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

x-no-archive:yes


"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

If the wind is pushing us into the face dock (assume that's what you
are talking about) very strongly, we stay there. We just can't back
against significant wind. We don't have a swim platform, but we do
have an inflatable on davits.

We always feed the lines so that both ends are in the boat (i.e.
looped around a cleat or looped around a piling). If the wind is
lighter and there isn't any current, we will leave the bow line
attached, cast off the stern line and push the stern out as far as
possible with a pole. Then when the stern is well clear of the boat
behind, I cast off the bow and Bob backs out. It might be possible
for Bob to use the bow line as a spring and power into the pier (I
know we have 4" of solid fiberglass in the bow so I'm not worried
about damage to the boat) to swing the stern out. But if the wind or
current is too great for us to do that, we don't go.







"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.


grandma Rosalie

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

x-no-archive:yes


"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

If the wind is pushing us into the face dock (assume that's what you
are talking about) very strongly, we stay there. We just can't back
against significant wind. We don't have a swim platform, but we do
have an inflatable on davits.

We always feed the lines so that both ends are in the boat (i.e.
looped around a cleat or looped around a piling). If the wind is
lighter and there isn't any current, we will leave the bow line
attached, cast off the stern line and push the stern out as far as
possible with a pole. Then when the stern is well clear of the boat
behind, I cast off the bow and Bob backs out. It might be possible
for Bob to use the bow line as a spring and power into the pier (I
know we have 4" of solid fiberglass in the bow so I'm not worried
about damage to the boat) to swing the stern out. But if the wind or
current is too great for us to do that, we don't go.







"Wwso149874" wrote in message
...
Many times we forget about the use of lines and engine to bring a vessel
into
or out of a berth. The use of a spring to swing the bow or stern out into
the
channel, or around an obstacle is a common practice with large vessels and
works equally well with small ones. A mid ship's spring will often make
you
look like an expert bringing your boat into a difficult berth or slip.
Warping
yourself into a tight slip is an art form. Too often boaters think they
have
to do every thing with the engine alone. That's the hard way.


grandma Rosalie

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

Thanks, Jack,

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...

If the aft docking line is positioned properly (after some
experimentation) the boat will sit square to the dock.

Yes, but I was referring to undocking, using the line to turn the stern away
from the dock - then a generously fendered bow is required.

ISPA (International Sail and Power Association) teaches this a s
standard method for all levels. As a crew member goes ashore, there
is only one line with which to deal. Also, if you handing a line to a
person on the dock (not recommended) you can tell them to tie off
opposite the stern.

Yes, but I was referring to single-handing. All of these "power spring"
methods are much more involved if without crew. Some - not all - are still
possible, but require much more organization.

Run a bight around the cleat or the ring back to your deck cleat.
When ready to leave, uncleat and haul in the dock line.

Right, that's what I do too, although to be a purist I don't usually leave
my boat sitting with a bight through a ring or around a cleat or piling,
because of chafe - although at many places it isn't a huge issue. But I
still don't. If I want to use it for undocking, for example, I'll re-rig it
just before departure.

For those with their own docks, consider setting a permanent line of
the proper length with hook that can be attached to the toe rail or
attachment point on the vessel.

Yes.

Thanks again.

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

More on berthing-single screw and twins
 

Thanks, Jack,

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...

If the aft docking line is positioned properly (after some
experimentation) the boat will sit square to the dock.

Yes, but I was referring to undocking, using the line to turn the stern away
from the dock - then a generously fendered bow is required.

ISPA (International Sail and Power Association) teaches this a s
standard method for all levels. As a crew member goes ashore, there
is only one line with which to deal. Also, if you handing a line to a
person on the dock (not recommended) you can tell them to tie off
opposite the stern.

Yes, but I was referring to single-handing. All of these "power spring"
methods are much more involved if without crew. Some - not all - are still
possible, but require much more organization.

Run a bight around the cleat or the ring back to your deck cleat.
When ready to leave, uncleat and haul in the dock line.

Right, that's what I do too, although to be a purist I don't usually leave
my boat sitting with a bight through a ring or around a cleat or piling,
because of chafe - although at many places it isn't a huge issue. But I
still don't. If I want to use it for undocking, for example, I'll re-rig it
just before departure.

For those with their own docks, consider setting a permanent line of
the proper length with hook that can be attached to the toe rail or
attachment point on the vessel.

Yes.

Thanks again.

Charles

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

Several options, starting with rebuilding your stern platform so it will not be
so vulnerable. One of the sore points I see about so many cruising boats (power
& sail both) is that they have a lot of 'stuff' sticking out where it has no
business.

This is a lot of work, but you could take your dinghy and set a kedge anchor to
windward, then use a bridle to warp the boat away from the pier. Another is to
use the dinghy as a tugboat to pull the bow to windward. This involves gear you
should already have. If you have a suitable spar, such as an old fashioned boat
boom (most cruisers nowadays don't) you could hold the stern away from the pier
with it while backing against a spring... that would take smart crew work to
recover the spar and get underway, I have seen similar maneuvers but don't think
that my wife & myself could get away with it. Another option would be to use a
really big fender to hold the stern out (sore point #93b, too few cruisers have
REAL fenders).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Another question undocking question - concerning swim platforms
 

"George C." wrote:

Here's the scenario: I'm docked alongside a pier with boats close to my bow
and stern, and the wind is pushing me into the pier. Normally, I would turn
the bow into the pier and back out, but sometimes backing isn't an option. I
would like to push the bow out, but the 2' swim platform on my stern will
get crushed. What to do?

Several options, starting with rebuilding your stern platform so it will not be
so vulnerable. One of the sore points I see about so many cruising boats (power
& sail both) is that they have a lot of 'stuff' sticking out where it has no
business.

This is a lot of work, but you could take your dinghy and set a kedge anchor to
windward, then use a bridle to warp the boat away from the pier. Another is to
use the dinghy as a tugboat to pull the bow to windward. This involves gear you
should already have. If you have a suitable spar, such as an old fashioned boat
boom (most cruisers nowadays don't) you could hold the stern away from the pier
with it while backing against a spring... that would take smart crew work to
recover the spar and get underway, I have seen similar maneuvers but don't think
that my wife & myself could get away with it. Another option would be to use a
really big fender to hold the stern out (sore point #93b, too few cruisers have
REAL fenders).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King