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Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
On 2007-09-16 16:36:13 -0400, roger said:
Why not rise above the crowd and learn celestial navigation. It is not an obsolete skill and people respect those that know how to do it even if they won't admit it. Didn't Annapolis stop requiring celestial navigation a year or two back? -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
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Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation?
otnmbrd wrote:
BTW you don't need an "accurate clock" to use a sextant, but speaking of "time" most any modern (or old, for that matter)watch keeps accurate enough time that it could be used, especially if you checked it prior to "doomsday" My father-in-law was torpedoed at the end of WWII and spent 18 days in a liferaft. They were able to track their longitude quite well because as the radio officer he knew the error of his watch. http://www.sv-loki.com/Davis/Clippings/clippings.html more stuff at http://www.sv-loki.com/Davis/davis.html Jeff...accurate clocks were being used on many ships, long before radio....radio just made it easier to monitor the rate Agreed that many ships had clocks, especially larger ships and warships. But a huge number did not, and I would guess that a large majority of coastal shipping and fishing boats only rarely (if ever) had a celestial fix. |
Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
Jere Lull wrote in news:2007091720575416807-
jerelull@maccom: On 2007-09-16 16:36:13 -0400, roger said: Why not rise above the crowd and learn celestial navigation. It is not an obsolete skill and people respect those that know how to do it even if they won't admit it. Didn't Annapolis stop requiring celestial navigation a year or two back? EG Annapolis is Navy..... not professional mariners.....nuff said |
Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
jeff wrote in
: otnmbrd wrote: BTW you don't need an "accurate clock" to use a sextant, but speaking of "time" most any modern (or old, for that matter)watch keeps accurate enough time that it could be used, especially if you checked it prior to "doomsday" My father-in-law was torpedoed at the end of WWII and spent 18 days in a liferaft. They were able to track their longitude quite well because as the radio officer he knew the error of his watch. http://www.sv-loki.com/Davis/Clippings/clippings.html more stuff at http://www.sv-loki.com/Davis/davis.html Jeff...accurate clocks were being used on many ships, long before radio....radio just made it easier to monitor the rate Agreed that many ships had clocks, especially larger ships and warships. But a huge number did not, and I would guess that a large majority of coastal shipping and fishing boats only rarely (if ever) had a celestial fix. BG Been a while since we had a discussion...... At any rate...... many coastal vessels and fishing vessels would not need to use celestial....here, you would need a historian to give you an accurate reading as to the how and who did what (I'm not him/her) BG Going to be on the Cape from 26th to 1st....if you get to Hyannis, look me up (try the Black Cat) |
Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
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Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:00:26 -0400, Red wrote:
brucepaige wrote: How come all the advocates of a relative low tech method of determining a position never mention that the system is unusable for navigation in tight spaces, narrow channels, etc. and dead reckoning or taking sights or measuring depth will be necessary. I never hear anyone recommend having a lead line on board in case your electronic depth sounder fails or a chip log mounted on the stern pulpit in case your electronic speed log fails. I see a number of arguments in this discussion. Fist, GPS recievers, like all electronics are prone to occasional errors and failures. There are numerous stories that abound in cruiser's logs on the net of GPS readings that reported the boat to be a half mile or so inland, or in the middle of a channel but the boat hits a charted reef, etc. There are perhaps hundreds or maybe thousands of places around the world that have innacurate GPS coordinates or innacurate maps used for the GPS data. The Garmin chartplotter on the boat I usually sail on shows us on land when we are in the middle of the channel in home port (and yes, the settings are correct for the charts). So other forms of measurement are always appropriate to know. And like it or not, the Pentagon did shut down the satellite system for one day, and can do that anytime again, not to mention the likelyhood of the system having problems as the satellites age. And since I both sail and work on boats I can tell you that both the depth sounders and speed logs do fail with amazing regularity. Red Yes, electronic devices fail and sextants get dropped knocking the mirrors out of alignment. Yes some GPS positions show you as on dry land when you look at a chart and a "cocked hat" sextant fix a mile on a side is doing really good, i.e., you are somewhere inside a half a square mile area. You can't use celestial navigation to stay in the middle of a narrow channel because you can't take shots and work the calculations fast enough, even with a calculator. The original poster asked " Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?" and to me the answer is a resounding NO! If you want to learn an archaic skill such as sword fighting, shooting the long bow, or shooting stars then more power to you but the ability to do celestial navigation is not a necessary skill in today's world. In closing let me say that I learned celestial navigation from a Lt. Colonel, the Lead Navigator in a SAC B-52 squadron and used to carry a sextant, H.O. tables and expensive watch and all that, but that was fifty years ago. Things have changed. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:28:53 -0000, otnmbrd
wrote: Jere Lull wrote in news:2007091720575416807- jerelull@maccom: On 2007-09-16 16:36:13 -0400, roger said: Why not rise above the crowd and learn celestial navigation. It is not an obsolete skill and people respect those that know how to do it even if they won't admit it. Didn't Annapolis stop requiring celestial navigation a year or two back? EG Annapolis is Navy..... not professional mariners.....nuff said I have a good friend who is both a university trained Marine Engineer and a licensed ships officer (2nd engineer). His primary work is being a project manager on VLCC, modifications and repairs but between projects sometimes sails as second engineer on VLCC's or container ships. During the last discussion of sextants I happened to run into him in Singapore and asked him if modern shipping still used celestial navigation. He told me that on some ships junior officers still took noon sights but only because the Captain felt it was a useful skill for a ship's officer. Other ships didn't have a sextant aboard. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
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Should I learn celestial navigation before doing circumnavigation ?
During the last discussion of sextants I happened to run into him in Singapore and asked him if modern shipping still used celestial navigation. He told me that on some ships junior officers still took noon sights but only because the Captain felt it was a useful skill for a ship's officer. Other ships didn't have a sextant aboard. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) The days of watching some relieving Mate come aboard with his sextant as part of his gear, are over. However, a ship sextant and the pubs to use it are still standard gear onboard. Once again, it is not necessary to learn celestial for someone doing offshore cruising, BUT, it is STILL a good safety practice to have the gear (no matter how cheap) and the minimal pubs to make use of it in an emergency |
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