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Mast winter storage.
This topic comes on now and then.
I just got a new boat this season. I am getting warm about storing the boat with its mast up for the north-eastern Canadian winter. I am not all convince yet that it a good thing to do. The radar was mounted on the mast and the boat mast has two spreaders and in mast furling. When they commissioned the boat, it took them 2-3 days to do so. At this time, I do not know how long it will take me to get the mast down, taking care of the spreaders look after the radar and prep the mast for indoor storage in a very crowded spar shed. Maybe the wear and tear of removing the mast, pushing it in an already overcrowded spar shed is more than leaving the mast installed on the boat. In addition, in the spring at launch I will have to tune the mast again and install the radar and connections. Conversely, I have heard stories that leaving the mast on during the winter may cause stress on the rigging and loosen the anchor plates. I would appreciate to get comments on this subject. |
Mast winter storage.
On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:29:56 -0300, wrote:
Conversely, I have heard stories that leaving the mast on during the winter may cause stress on the rigging and loosen the anchor plates. I assume you mean chain plates. Probably the biggest risk is having your boat capsized off of the jack stands or cradle by strong winds. It is not common but it does happen. It is especially risky on dirt which is more prone to be softened or compacted over time as opposed to concrete or blacktop. That said, I left the mast up on my old Cal-34 for many years with no damage at all. It is best to replace the halyards with messenger lines to avoid wear and UV damage. |
Mast winter storage.
wrote: I just got a new boat this season. I am getting warm about storing the boat with its mast up for the north-eastern Canadian winter. I am not all convince yet that it a good thing to do. SFWIW Kept a 30 ft sloop on the South Shore of Lake Erie for many years Every year, unstepped the mast and used it as a ridge pole for the canvas used to cover the boat.. Used some construction grade lumber and some plywood to make supports for the mast. One was located in the cockpit, the other on the foredeck. Used 3/8, 3 strand nylon to lash them in place, and an artifical turf mat under the feet to protect the glass. They went with the boat when I sold it. YMMV Lew |
Mast winter storage.
wrote in message ... This topic comes on now and then. I just got a new boat this season. I am getting warm about storing the boat with its mast up for the north-eastern Canadian winter. I am not all convince yet that it a good thing to do. The radar was mounted on the mast and the boat mast has two spreaders and in mast furling. When they commissioned the boat, it took them 2-3 days to do so. At this time, I do not know how long it will take me to get the mast down, taking care of the spreaders look after the radar and prep the mast for indoor storage in a very crowded spar shed. Maybe the wear and tear of removing the mast, pushing it in an already overcrowded spar shed is more than leaving the mast installed on the boat. In addition, in the spring at launch I will have to tune the mast again and install the radar and connections. Conversely, I have heard stories that leaving the mast on during the winter may cause stress on the rigging and loosen the anchor plates. I would appreciate to get comments on this subject. The guy I crewed with gave up on taking his mast down each year, even though he belonged to a club with all the equipment needed...such as a mast crane/lift installed at the main dock and a big spar shed. I guess he just didn't feel it was worth the trouble on his Mirage 33. On smaller trailerable sailboats that mast makes a perfect 'ridge pole' to support your tarps. |
Mast winter storage-update
"Lew Hodgett" wrote: SFWIW Kept a 30 ft sloop on the South Shore of Lake Erie for many years Every year, unstepped the mast and used it as a ridge pole for the canvas used to cover the boat.. Used some construction grade lumber and some plywood to make supports for the mast. One was located in the cockpit, the other on the foredeck. Used 3/8, 3 strand nylon to lash them in place, and an artifical turf mat under the feet to protect the glass. They went with the boat when I sold it. YMMV Forgot to mention: Remove spreaders and store. Place a plastic garbage bag over each end of mast and tape in place. Keeps the birds out. Coil each shroud loosely and hang from mast with duct tape. When you put the tarp in place, hang 1 gallon jugs full of water on lashing line to keep lashings taut. (Old antifreeze jugs work well) HTH Lew |
Mast winter storage.
I would suggest asking your fellow boaters and boat yards in your neck of
the woods. There may be reasons to take your mast down, most folks leave them up. If it was me, I would go with the majority of boaters. You could also email your mast manufacture and get their input. Same with the radar manufacture. Lastly if you leave the mast up, loosen your standing rigging, say 5 turns and note so in your log book. Stu wrote in message ... This topic comes on now and then. I just got a new boat this season. I am getting warm about storing the boat with its mast up for the north-eastern Canadian winter. I am not all convince yet that it a good thing to do. The radar was mounted on the mast and the boat mast has two spreaders and in mast furling. When they commissioned the boat, it took them 2-3 days to do so. At this time, I do not know how long it will take me to get the mast down, taking care of the spreaders look after the radar and prep the mast for indoor storage in a very crowded spar shed. Maybe the wear and tear of removing the mast, pushing it in an already overcrowded spar shed is more than leaving the mast installed on the boat. In addition, in the spring at launch I will have to tune the mast again and install the radar and connections. Conversely, I have heard stories that leaving the mast on during the winter may cause stress on the rigging and loosen the anchor plates. I would appreciate to get comments on this subject. |
Mast winter storage.
wrote in news:46d9cb4c$0$4044
: I would appreciate to get comments on this subject. Why not sail the boat South until you bump into something warm that suits you for the winter, instead? A friend here in Charleston, SC, is getting ready to sail his new Jenneau to Tortola he loves so much for the winter as soon as the hurricane season is nearly over. Then, he can fly down and enjoy his big toy when work permits. A very select group will also be able to charter it from him when he's not playing with it, making a substantial profit over expenses...not a bad idea at all! No mast storage necessary....(c; Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
Mast winter storage.
"Larry" wrote in message ... snip... A friend here in Charleston, SC, is getting ready to sail his new Jenneau to Tortola he loves so much for the winter as soon as the hurricane season is nearly over. Then, he can fly down and enjoy his big toy when work permits. snip... mmmmmmm I am thinking of heading down to Roadtown, Tortola in November. Cheapest flight from here is about $750.00 + taxes & fees. |
Mast winter storage.
Thanks, I meant chain plates. My boat has an 11 feet 3 inches beam, 6 feet
draft and 49 feet above the water mast. The width of the steel cradle is 6 feet with 6 holding pads. The question is how much will it take to capsize the boat on dry ground? I do not know if this is entirely true, but some Marina in the US to not allow boats to be stored with their mast up? Also some insurance companies may want an extra premium? "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:29:56 -0300, wrote: Conversely, I have heard stories that leaving the mast on during the winter may cause stress on the rigging and loosen the anchor plates. I assume you mean chain plates. Probably the biggest risk is having your boat capsized off of the jack stands or cradle by strong winds. It is not common but it does happen. It is especially risky on dirt which is more prone to be softened or compacted over time as opposed to concrete or blacktop. That said, I left the mast up on my old Cal-34 for many years with no damage at all. It is best to replace the halyards with messenger lines to avoid wear and UV damage. |
Mast winter storage.
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 07:37:20 -0300, wrote:
The question is how much will it take to capsize the boat on dry ground? Obviously the answer to that depends on a lot of different factors but I've never heard of any issues unless winds were above 40 to 50 kts. I do not know if this is entirely true, but some Marina in the US to not allow boats to be stored with their mast up? That is most definitely true. One of my old salboat marinas would only allow it on the concrete portion of their yard. Others, not at all. Also some insurance companies may want an extra premium? Possible but I have not experienced that. |
Mast winter storage.
"Don White" wrote in news:46da0b39$0$4050
: "Larry" wrote in message ... snip... A friend here in Charleston, SC, is getting ready to sail his new Jenneau to Tortola he loves so much for the winter as soon as the hurricane season is nearly over. Then, he can fly down and enjoy his big toy when work permits. snip... mmmmmmm I am thinking of heading down to Roadtown, Tortola in November. Cheapest flight from here is about $750.00 + taxes & fees. Flight? Don't you own a sailboat? Stop by Charleston sailing her down. Many Canadians don't make it past here, below the snow line...(c; Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
Mast winter storage.
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 07:37:20 -0300, wrote:
Thanks, I meant chain plates. My boat has an 11 feet 3 inches beam, 6 feet draft and 49 feet above the water mast. The width of the steel cradle is 6 feet with 6 holding pads. The question is how much will it take to capsize the boat on dry ground? They make these steel augers which screw into the ground. Used for tying down airplanes. Not very expensive. Conversely, I have heard stories that leaving the mast on during the winter may cause stress on the rigging and loosen the anchor plates. I assume you mean chain plates. Since the coefficients of thermal expansion vary from steel to aluminum, the one thing they won't do stay the same. Either tighter or looser. Not sure which. Loosening the turnbuckels a few turns can't hurt. Casady |
Mast winter storage.
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 07:37:20 -0300, wrote: The question is how much will it take to capsize the boat on dry ground? Obviously the answer to that depends on a lot of different factors but I've never heard of any issues unless winds were above 40 to 50 kts. I do not know if this is entirely true, but some Marina in the US to not allow boats to be stored with their mast up? That is most definitely true. One of my old salboat marinas would only allow it on the concrete portion of their yard. Others, not at all. Also some insurance companies may want an extra premium? Possible but I have not experienced that. Some marinas require mast down only because they have to go under lines when moving from the lift point to the storage point! G |
Mast winter storage.
"Don White" wrote in message ... mmmmmmm I am thinking of heading down to Roadtown, Tortola in November. Cheapest flight from here is about $750.00 + taxes & fees. I hope to be there in November. Where's a good place to stay? |
Mast winter storage.
"JohnM" wrote in message ... "Don White" wrote in message ... mmmmmmm I am thinking of heading down to Roadtown, Tortola in November. Cheapest flight from here is about $750.00 + taxes & fees. I hope to be there in November. Where's a good place to stay? For me it'll be on my buddy's 32 foot sailboat. At least, I hope it'll be a good place. He tends to be a bit rough around the edges. (think Capt Ron... the Kurt Russell movie) |
Mast winter storage.
I just got a reply from my insurance company.
I was given the ok, that the mast can stay up , without restrictions during the lay up period. However, It was learned that they would be more careful when a sailboat is 10 years and older. I do not know if the 10 years old restriction is just started or if was already in the fine print. "Stu" wrote in message . .. I would suggest asking your fellow boaters and boat yards in your neck of the woods. There may be reasons to take your mast down, most folks leave them up. If it was me, I would go with the majority of boaters. You could also email your mast manufacture and get their input. Same with the radar manufacture. Lastly if you leave the mast up, loosen your standing rigging, say 5 turns and note so in your log book. Stu wrote in message ... This topic comes on now and then. I just got a new boat this season. I am getting warm about storing the boat with its mast up for the north-eastern Canadian winter. I am not all convince yet that it a good thing to do. The radar was mounted on the mast and the boat mast has two spreaders and in mast furling. When they commissioned the boat, it took them 2-3 days to do so. At this time, I do not know how long it will take me to get the mast down, taking care of the spreaders look after the radar and prep the mast for indoor storage in a very crowded spar shed. Maybe the wear and tear of removing the mast, pushing it in an already overcrowded spar shed is more than leaving the mast installed on the boat. In addition, in the spring at launch I will have to tune the mast again and install the radar and connections. Conversely, I have heard stories that leaving the mast on during the winter may cause stress on the rigging and loosen the anchor plates. I would appreciate to get comments on this subject. |
Mast winter storage.
On 2007-09-01 16:29:56 -0400, said:
I just got a new boat this season. I am getting warm about storing the boat with its mast up for the north-eastern Canadian winter. I am not all convince yet that it a good thing to do. We store mast-up, but drop it every few years for so I can do a complete checkout of the rigging and fittings. Would prefer to have it down every year, but it's an additional expense. If you haven't inspected the mast, I suggest dropping it this time. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Mast winter storage.
"Jere Lull" wrote in message news:2007090623374011272-jerelull@maccom... On 2007-09-01 16:29:56 -0400, said: I just got a new boat this season. I am getting warm about storing the boat with its mast up for the north-eastern Canadian winter. I am not all convince yet that it a good thing to do. We store mast-up, but drop it every few years for so I can do a complete checkout of the rigging and fittings. Would prefer to have it down every year, but it's an additional expense. If you haven't inspected the mast, I suggest dropping it this time. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ Over here, we do not have a travel lift and with use a rental crane. It is an additional charge to haul out the boat with the mast up. We only started last year. The technique is a little scary. They use long straps with a square frame and a rental crane. Our spar shed was build to accommodate smaller boat masts without radar and other mast mounted equipment. To store the mast in the spar shed is getting to be like a doggy's breakfast. I am a little apprehensive that storing the mast in the spar shed would be more damaging than the wear and tear of leaving the mast up. The thing that I am concern about is the domino effect during strong north winter wind. |
Mast winter storage.
On 2007-09-07 09:55:58 -0400, said:
The thing that I am concern about is the domino effect during strong north winter wind. That's the primary reason I prefer mast-down, as a boat fell over a couple of seasons back in October. After that, every boat -- except ours -- was given 7 stands. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Mast winter storage.
Good point, my steel cradle is 6 feet wide and has 6 pads three on each
side. The pads are going 90 degrees up supporting the boat underneath with the keel resting on a platform that is part of the cradle. I was thinking of adding one stand on each side to supplement the cradle lateral support. "Jere Lull" wrote in message news:2007090717353016807-jerelull@maccom... On 2007-09-07 09:55:58 -0400, said: The thing that I am concern about is the domino effect during strong north winter wind. That's the primary reason I prefer mast-down, as a boat fell over a couple of seasons back in October. After that, every boat -- except ours -- was given 7 stands. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Mast winter storage.
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 18:51:43 -0300, wrote:
Good point, my steel cradle is 6 feet wide and has 6 pads three on each side. The pads are going 90 degrees up supporting the boat underneath with the keel resting on a platform that is part of the cradle. I was thinking of adding one stand on each side to supplement the cradle lateral support. Probably a good idea. Tie downs to helical anchor screws would be even better I think but I've never seen anyone do that. |
Mast winter storage.
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 18:51:43 -0300, wrote: Good point, my steel cradle is 6 feet wide and has 6 pads three on each side. The pads are going 90 degrees up supporting the boat underneath with the keel resting on a platform that is part of the cradle. I was thinking of adding one stand on each side to supplement the cradle lateral support. Probably a good idea. Tie downs to helical anchor screws would be even better I think but I've never seen anyone do that. Does this mean that the probability of capsizing while on the hard with the mast up is very remote? |
Mast winter storage.
On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 10:42:53 -0300, wrote:
Does this mean that the probability of capsizing while on the hard with the mast up is very remote? I've seen it happen a couple of times so it's not that remote. There are things you can do to minimize the risks but don't think you can totally eliminate the possibility. |
Mast winter storage.
wrote: Does this mean that the probability of capsizing while on the hard with the mast up is very remote? I don't get it, what is the big deal about pulling a stick, unless the crane is being operated by a bunch of boobs? Lew |
Mast winter storage.
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... wrote: Does this mean that the probability of capsizing while on the hard with the mast up is very remote? I don't get it, what is the big deal about pulling a stick, unless the crane is being operated by a bunch of boobs? Lew Cost of pulling and storing the stick(s) for the winter, cost for restepping in the spring, hassle of extensive retuning. |
Mast winter storage.
"KLC Lewis wrote: Cost of pulling and storing the stick(s) for the winter, cost for restepping in the spring, hassle of extensive retuning. You gotta be kidding. For openers, you store the stick on the boat, not some shed. This allows you to use stick as a ridge pole and cover the total boat including the rigging. Trying to be a cheap skate and save a few bucks on an in/out mast charge is simply not prudent, IMHO. Lew |
Mast winter storage.
Over here It is more expensive to haul out with the mast up. We do not have
a travel lift Normally we use a heavy boom truck to haul out the boat without the mast. Then the mast is stored in a spar shed. Lately people are getting bigger boats and the spar shed is overcrowded. Storing a two spreaders mast with a radar antenna is risky and many owners have found damages in the spring when they took their mast out. The other way is to store your mast outside in the snow and ice. Last year they haul out a 35 feet sailboat using a square steel frame, long slings and a heavy duty boom truck. The boat listed about 10 degrees but once in its cradle or water it was fine. Never the less it does not give a warm feeling I would much prefer using a travel lift. Should you want pictures let me know. "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... wrote: Does this mean that the probability of capsizing while on the hard with the mast up is very remote? I don't get it, what is the big deal about pulling a stick, unless the crane is being operated by a bunch of boobs? Lew |
Mast winter storage.
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis wrote: Cost of pulling and storing the stick(s) for the winter, cost for restepping in the spring, hassle of extensive retuning. You gotta be kidding. For openers, you store the stick on the boat, not some shed. This allows you to use stick as a ridge pole and cover the total boat including the rigging. It is the best way to go. For 25 years I had an A frame and tabernacle on my 27 feet sailboat. Lowering and raising the 33 feet mast was no problem for one man with any crane of other means. I had a roller stand astern and roll the mast over the bow pulpit then I installed the plastic tarp over it. But with this boat the stick has two spreaders and is 50 feet long with the radar antenna mounted on it. I only wish I could do the same thing as I did on my old boat. I would be very thankfull if you could tell me how to use my two spreaders 50 feet mast with a radar antenna as a ridge pole and covering the total boat. Trying to be a cheap skate and save a few bucks on an in/out mast charge is simply not prudent, IMHO. Lew |
Mast winter storage.
On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 14:42:30 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote: Trying to be a cheap skate and save a few bucks on an in/out mast charge is simply not prudent, IMHO. It depends on the boat and it depends on the boat yard. If you have a multi-spreader mast with rod rigging and a lot of electronics the total cost can easily exceed $2000 for unstepping, dissassembly, storage, re-assembly, tuning, etc. If you store with the mast up cost and effort are zero if you leave the halyards in, about an hours work if you run in messenger lines. |
Mast winter storage.
wrote: It is the best way to go. For 25 years I had an A frame and tabernacle on my 27 feet sailboat. Lowering and raising the 33 feet mast was no problem for one man with any crane of other means. I had a roller stand astern and roll the mast over the bow pulpit then I installed the plastic tarp over it. But with this boat the stick has two spreaders and is 50 feet long with the radar antenna mounted on it. I only wish I could do the same thing as I did on my old boat. I would be very thankfull if you could tell me how to use my two spreaders 50 feet mast with a radar antenna as a ridge pole and covering the total boat. Build a couple of supports, one on the foredeck, the other in the cockpit to support the mast such that with the radar antenna in place, it will clear the deck by 6"-8". (You wanted an excuse for some woodworking anyway) Lash these to deck of boat with some 3/8", 3-strand nylon. Remove spreaders and store below. Plastic wrap the last 10ft of each end of the mast.(Reduces amount of canvas required to cover boat) Coil the rigging and hang from mast with duct tape bridal such that you don't leave any "goo" on either rigging or mast. Center mast as required to provide clearance for radar antenna. Cover boat with tarp and get a beer, maybe twoG. When the yard pulls stick, have them place it in supports which you have already put in position. They can then lift boat, pressure wash bottom, place in the winter location so you can go to work. Lew |
Mast winter storage.
wrote Last year they haul out a 35 feet sailboat using a square steel frame, long slings and a heavy duty boom truck. Pretty much standard procedure to use a spreader bar and a couple of slings for bulky stuff like sail boats. The boat listed about 10 degrees but once in its cradle or water it was fine. NBD Never the less it does not give a warm feeling I would much prefer using a travel lift. Once boat is in cradle, how do they move it to winter storage location? Lew |
Mast winter storage.
"Wayne.B" wrote: It depends on the boat and it depends on the boat yard. If you have a multi-spreader mast with rod rigging and a lot of electronics the total cost can easily exceed $2000 for unstepping, dissassembly, storage, re-assembly, tuning, etc. Probably be cheaper to head south for the winter even using paid crew both ways. Lew .. |
Mast winter storage.
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message ... wrote Last year they haul out a 35 feet sailboat using a square steel frame, long slings and a heavy duty boom truck. Pretty much standard procedure to use a spreader bar and a couple of slings for bulky stuff like sail boats. The boat listed about 10 degrees but once in its cradle or water it was fine. NBD Never the less it does not give a warm feeling I would much prefer using a travel lift. Once boat is in cradle, how do they move it to winter storage location? Lew The cradle is pick up by an hydraulic trailer build like a U. The trailer backs up with one steel channel on each side of the cradle. Once in the proper position cross channels are pushed under the cradle and secured in place. Then the hydraulic cylinders raise the cradle upward. When the correct height is reached the cradle is secure with chain and pins to the trailer. The truck and trailer then go to the haul out area and waits for the boat to be placed on its cradle. When the sailboat is well secured on the trailer it is haul away to destination. To unload the cradle and sailboat the reverse process is used. Once on the hard the cradle is levelled and blocked for the winter. Over here most sailboat owners live close to the Yacht club. About 35 % of the sailboats are store in their owners backyard or beside their house. My 27 feet sailboat was stored in my backyard during the winter for 25 years. |
Mast winter storage.
On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 18:22:54 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote: Probably be cheaper to head south for the winter even using paid crew both ways. Not with paid crew, and not if you have to pay dockage when you get there. On the other hand you do get to use the boat for 12 months a year and that's worth something. |
Mast winter storage.
"Wayne.B" wrote: Not with paid crew, and not if you have to pay dockage when you get there. On the other hand you do get to use the boat for 12 months a year and that's worth something. Time to consider dual dockage, 1/2 year north, 1/2 year south. Has some benefits. Lew |
Mast winter storage.
On 2007-09-08 09:42:53 -0400, said:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 18:51:43 -0300, wrote: Good point, my steel cradle is 6 feet wide and has 6 pads three on each side. The pads are going 90 degrees up supporting the boat underneath with the keel resting on a platform that is part of the cradle. I was thinking of adding one stand on each side to supplement the cradle lateral support. Probably a good idea. Tie downs to helical anchor screws would be even better I think but I've never seen anyone do that. Does this mean that the probability of capsizing while on the hard with the mast up is very remote? Remote, but not impossible, as Isabelle proved a couple of Septembers back on the Bay. Quite a few boats floated off their stands when the water rose 11 feet. Helical anchor screws or buried concrete blocks are used in some locations. Problem with that around here is that we're usually stored on a driveway and the marina owners would understandably be upset to find holes drilled in the asphalt. Such tie-downs probably would *NOT* have helped the boats that floated off their stands during Isabelle, as the anchors would have been pulled out (most likely), the boats' cleats or lines broken, or the boat sunk because it couldn't float OR only one side's anchor(s) broke free. May sound funny, but I have a thought to throw an anchor out the next time a storm comes by, whether we're on the hard or in our slip. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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