"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
Skip, you're apparently having fun and learning while you get your
boat shipshape. But it seems to me there is something fundamentally
wrong about your approach to your boat's mech/electrical systems.
Whether the installations were wrong from the get-go, or the product
of piecemealing mismatched components, or of using low quality
components, or you mucking up with your own hands things you don't
have the knowledge to deal with, I don't know.
If it were me I would get better advice on what works best and use it.
There are always cost compromises for most of us, but boating -
especially cruising - should *not* be "fixing things in exotic places"
or whatever cuteism you care to use.
Scheduled maintenance, proper diagnostic gear to use for
troubleshooting, and occasional replacement of broken down parts
should be the goal for cruisers.
Sometimes reading cruiser logs remind me of tales - usually from the
very young - who pick up an '89 Chevy Cavalier in NY for $300 and
set off for California.
They might make the journey, but it is doubtful it will be much fun,
and it will probably end up costing more in repairs than if they had
just bit the bullet and splurged $500 on a '92 Chevy Corsica.
Of course being at sea has dangers beyond being stalled on a road.
I hope I'm not off base here, but I've never read so many accounts of
various breakdowns as I have from you, and I'm a bit concerned, since
I do wish you the best.

--Vic

Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper"
they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was
fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions
available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them,
however).

The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose to
go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in the
event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very limited
through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at sea. But
horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand high-comfort
heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that much of a
girly-girl.

Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected. The
higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they *are* in
"shake-down" mode at this time.

Karin

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...
Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper"
they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was
fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions
available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them,
however).

The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose
to go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in
the event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very
limited through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at
sea. But horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand
high-comfort heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that
much of a girly-girl.

Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected.
The higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they
*are* in "shake-down" mode at this time.

Karin


One additional comment:

Skip reported that TFP had experienced steering problems on a first attempt
to leave the dock. They returned to the dock, couldn't find or duplicate the
problem, so they left anyway. That, IMHO, was a mistake. If I experience a
critical system problem at the dock which I cannot troubleshoot on my own, I
don't leave until someone else with appropriate experience has located and
fixed the problem or shown me how to do it. I've missed out on some planned
sails because of this mindset, but it also means that I don't tend to have
many "adventures at sea." ;-)

"KLC Lewis" wrote:


"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...
Other than the grounding, it seems to me that the only "boat stopper"
they've experienced so far is the steering failure -- and even that was
fixable at sea from Skip's report, with emergency steering solutions
available (unknown whether they had the knowledge to employ any of them,
however).

The Flying Pig is clearly a boat with more equipment than I would choose
to go to sea with. I prefer simple systems that are easily repaired in
the event of failure. Tiller steering. No refer. Low power demands. Very
limited through-hulls. Porta-potti with "bucket and chuck-it" option at
sea. But horses for courses, as they say. Some claim that women demand
high-comfort heads with lots of beauty-parlor options. Guess I'm not that
much of a girly-girl.

I'm not either -- but I hate tiller steering. I can just about manage
a wheel.

I think on a passage (more than 36 hours offshore), I would want a
windvane rather than an autopilot, but we aren't going to do a passage
(at least there's no chance of that anymore), so we have and use the
autopilot which is more useful in near shore.

Our boat when we bought it had a refer, and it's nice to have. We
installed a radar, and Bob decided to have Lectrasans (it certainly
wasn't my idea, but I don't think I'd want a portapot either).

Nevertheless, underway repairs and maintenance are pretty much expected.
The higher-tech the systems, the more repairs to be expected. And they
*are* in "shake-down" mode at this time.

Karin

One additional comment:

Skip reported that TFP had experienced steering problems on a first attempt
to leave the dock. They returned to the dock, couldn't find or duplicate the
problem, so they left anyway. That, IMHO, was a mistake. If I experience a
critical system problem at the dock which I cannot troubleshoot on my own, I
don't leave until someone else with appropriate experience has located and
fixed the problem or shown me how to do it. I've missed out on some planned
sails because of this mindset, but it also means that I don't tend to have
many "adventures at sea." ;-)

I think this is - in general- a man's mindset. At least with us, the
only times we've really been in trouble is when Bob has wanted to
leave and I have not, and he's convinced me when I should have stood
my ground. I am, of course, not really a sailor - more of a
companion.

It is Bob's boat to fix. One of the reasons I was OK with his getting
a boat is that I knew that he loves to fix things.

One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is
because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle
of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet),
and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore.

Also of course we are getting older.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is
because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle
of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet),
and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore.

Also of course we are getting older.


You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because
you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but
I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally
paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20
feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring.

"KLC Lewis" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is
because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle
of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet),
and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore.

Also of course we are getting older.


You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because
you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but
I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm exceptionally
paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than 20
feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring.

What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where
there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't
give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is.

We have gone aground several times, and it was never a very happy
experience although not dire in the way Skip's was.

We tried to get into Queenstown once, and got blown out of the channel
by the wind and couldn't raise anyone on the radio or phone.
Eventually we kedged off - we almost lost the dinghy in doing that
because when we got up to the anchor, Bob went to get the dinghy from
where he'd tied it and it had untied itself and was being blown away.
Bob jumped for it, and made it with just one foot getting wet.

I had my daughter and SIL out in the Patuxent, and managed to run
aground under sail while tacking. It apparently gave my SIL great
satisfaction to say that his MIL had run aground.

The first time down the ICW, we tried to go out Brunswick inlet and
when I called to Bob that we were too close to the breakers he mistook
the side that he was too close to and steered us right into the surf
line. Took all the paint off the leading edge of the keel up about a
foot.

But we've actually had more problem with wind and current than with
meeting the bottom.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
news
"KLC Lewis" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
. ..
One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is
because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the middle
of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite Masonboro Inlet),
and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip anymore.

Also of course we are getting older.


You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's because
you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock on wood) but
I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is because I'm
exceptionally
paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less than
20
feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring.

What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where
there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't
give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is.

We have gone aground several times, and it was never a very happy
experience although not dire in the way Skip's was.

We tried to get into Queenstown once, and got blown out of the channel
by the wind and couldn't raise anyone on the radio or phone.
Eventually we kedged off - we almost lost the dinghy in doing that
because when we got up to the anchor, Bob went to get the dinghy from
where he'd tied it and it had untied itself and was being blown away.
Bob jumped for it, and made it with just one foot getting wet.

I had my daughter and SIL out in the Patuxent, and managed to run
aground under sail while tacking. It apparently gave my SIL great
satisfaction to say that his MIL had run aground.

The first time down the ICW, we tried to go out Brunswick inlet and
when I called to Bob that we were too close to the breakers he mistook
the side that he was too close to and steered us right into the surf
line. Took all the paint off the leading edge of the keel up about a
foot.

But we've actually had more problem with wind and current than with
meeting the bottom.


I haven't been in the ICW since 1979-80, but from what I've seen on the
charts things have only gotten worse. Channels narrowing and shoaling has to
make it quite an ordeal. I'm not sure that it's worth the hassle,
personally. If I were heading south, I would seriously consider doing it
offshore -- though as I remember the Gulf Stream, that raises a whole
'nother can o worms. Is harbor hopping down the coast possible, avoiding the
ICW? Weather and GS position permitting, of course.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et:


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
news
"KLC Lewis" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
One of the reasons that we aren't really cruising much anymore is
because we went aground the last time we came up the ICW in the
middle of the channel south of Wrightsville Beach (opposite
Masonboro Inlet), and Bob said it was too stressful to do the trip
anymore.

Also of course we are getting older.


You know what they say, Rosalie, "if you haven't gone aground it's
because you haven't sailed enough." I haven't gone aground yet (knock
on wood) but I've brushed the mud a time or two. Mostly this is
because I'm exceptionally
paranoid about depth. If the chart (and my depth sounder) shows less
than 20
feet I don't want to be there unless I'm anchoring.

What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel
where there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder
didn't give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than
he is.

We have gone aground several times, and it was never a very happy
experience although not dire in the way Skip's was.

We tried to get into Queenstown once, and got blown out of the
channel by the wind and couldn't raise anyone on the radio or phone.
Eventually we kedged off - we almost lost the dinghy in doing that
because when we got up to the anchor, Bob went to get the dinghy from
where he'd tied it and it had untied itself and was being blown away.
Bob jumped for it, and made it with just one foot getting wet.

I had my daughter and SIL out in the Patuxent, and managed to run
aground under sail while tacking. It apparently gave my SIL great
satisfaction to say that his MIL had run aground.

The first time down the ICW, we tried to go out Brunswick inlet and
when I called to Bob that we were too close to the breakers he
mistook the side that he was too close to and steered us right into
the surf line. Took all the paint off the leading edge of the keel
up about a foot.

But we've actually had more problem with wind and current than with
meeting the bottom.


I haven't been in the ICW since 1979-80, but from what I've seen on
the charts things have only gotten worse. Channels narrowing and
shoaling has to make it quite an ordeal. I'm not sure that it's worth
the hassle, personally. If I were heading south, I would seriously
consider doing it offshore -- though as I remember the Gulf Stream,
that raises a whole 'nother can o worms. Is harbor hopping down the
coast possible, avoiding the ICW? Weather and GS position permitting,
of course.

Simply get a book like Skipper Bob's Anchorages and read where the
shoaling is. You can get updates on-line. I annotate the book with the
updates and create warning symbols on the GPS course which warn me when
I'm heading into a area known to have problems. Following this
procedure I didn't have any issues this year, but I knew many people who
did and they were just following the R/Gs and didn't realize where the
shoaling was.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:01:47 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

Is harbor hopping down the coast possible, avoiding the
ICW? Weather and GS position permitting, of course.

Absolutely possible but the downside is lost time and distance going
in and out. There are also some long stretches on the Florida coast
with no inlets. We usually run these overnight and put in the next
day. Avoiding the Gulf Stream is relatively easy in most places by
staying closer to shore.

Rosalie B. wrote in
news
What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where
there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't
give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is.


I drove an Endeavour 35 sloop out of the little basin at the yacht club in
Daytona Beach, followed the bouys around into the ICW to starboard to get
to the fuel dock at the marina next door. Right after I rounded up South
in the center of the channel, the boat hooked "something" like it had just
hooked a tree that nosed the old girl over and stopped her dead in her
tracks like a jet landing on a carrier snagging the cables on deck.

Florida is just terrible with a 6' keel hanging down. The keel of the Amel
Sharki 41 dragged along the bottom of Lake Worth in the middle of the
channel from one end to the other. Vary off course a little and it
grounded long before getting near the bouy line.

There aren't near enough inlets for them to escape to sea on.....


Larry
--
Democrats are raising taxes on oil companies by $16,000,000,000.
Oil companies don't pay taxes, just like every other company.
Consumers pay all taxes, corporate and individual.
What's the price of a gallon of regular going to go to to pay $16B more?

Larry wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote in
news
What got Bob's goat was that it was in the middle of the channel where
there should have been plenty of water and the depth sounder didn't
give us any warning. No one is more paranoid about depth than he is.

I drove an Endeavour 35 sloop out of the little basin at the yacht club in
Daytona Beach, followed the bouys around into the ICW to starboard to get
to the fuel dock at the marina next door. Right after I rounded up South
in the center of the channel, the boat hooked "something" like it had just
hooked a tree that nosed the old girl over and stopped her dead in her
tracks like a jet landing on a carrier snagging the cables on deck.

Florida is just terrible with a 6' keel hanging down. The keel of the Amel
Sharki 41 dragged along the bottom of Lake Worth in the middle of the
channel from one end to the other. Vary off course a little and it
grounded long before getting near the bouy line.

IT is the same way through the Georgia ICW. At low tide the daymarks
are well on dry land.

We only went through the ICW in Lake Worth once. That was enough.
Between there and Ft. Lauderdale there were over 20 bridges to be
opened.

There aren't near enough inlets for them to escape to sea on.....

On our last trip up the ICW, we went in the Hawk Channel from Marathon
to Miami. Then

Offshore from Miami to Fort Pierce.

Up the ICW to the St. Mary's River. (Usually anchor in Melbourne, and
stay in marinas in Titusville, Daytona, St. Augustine, Jax Beach - 5
days)

Offshore from the St. Mary's River to Charleston

Offshore from Charleston to Cape Fear

A short hop from Southport to Masonboro

I had just suggested to Bob that we go out Masonboro and come in at
Beaufort when we went aground.

From there - we usually go inshore stopping at Swansboro, Oriental,
Belhaven, Alligator R., Coinjock, NC (Virginia Cut - we usually go
south through the Dismal Swamp and come back through the Virginia
Cut), and Norfolk

Incidentally it is Gallant's Cut in Beaufort that is closed. I've
heard several radio conversations from trawlers that had put their
autopilots following the old channel on the chartplotter. But I
knew (from the guidebooks) that Gallant's Cut channel was closed in
2000 when we made our first trip down the ICW (and the only time that
we had anything to do with Beaufort by boat because I think the
marinas are too expensive - we anchored )
http://p.vtourist.com/953637-Beaufor...e-Beaufort.jpg