Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

WHAT A ****TY MESS -


On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:29:11 GMT, (Steven
Shelikoff) wrote:

Here's a picture of my installation.

http://members.ispwest.com/shelikoff/trip/Image20.jpg

The two GCF filters are the black cylinders center left. The Racor
after them is the white one lower left. The engine final filter isn't
visible but it's just behind the air intake, which is just behind the
oil fill. The plumbing behind the filters lets me do things like bypass
the filters so I can change them when the engine is running, power prime
the engine, shutoff fuel to the engine while I'm polishing, etc. The
pump isn't visible but the hose in front coming off the Racor with the
vacuum gauge on it leads to the pump.

Closer up, http://members.ispwest.com/shelikoff/trip/Image18.jpg

Yes, it looks like a plumbers nightmare.:) But it's all pretty straight
foward to figure out and operate. Normally, all valves are open except
for the one letting fuel bypass the GCF filters. There are 3 vacuum
gauges, one before the GCF filters, one between the GCF and the Racor
and one after the Racor. If the vacuum difference is more then a couple
of lbs between the input and output of a filter, it's time for an
element change.




"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:03:52 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

This helps alot, thanks! LaBomba suggested that just amking
the primary filter bigger would solve the problem. I was thinking
that this might be a easier solution, but it appears that a separate
polishing system does have advantages over just using a filter
that does not clog up so quickly. My intended strategy is to oly
fill one tank at a time, set the newly filled tank to polishing while
running the engine off of the other tank. Then when the engine
tank gets low, switch the engine to the polished tank, then
fill and polish the other tank. That way I always have clean
fuel ready and waiting (and plenty of it) and I don;t have to rush
to fill again.

I'm still in a quandry about Raycor style filters vs the paper towel
roll type. Perhaps RichH will chime in on this one since he is an
expert on filtration systems. Does Safeway carry 15 uM paper towels?

RichH doesn't like the paper towel or TP filters. He's said they shed
material and that they can pass some fluid unfiltered by the edge.
This, I agree, makes them unsuitable as the only filter for an engine.
However, I think they are great for fuel polishing very dirty fuel *if*
you have a good quality filter, like a Racor, after them to trap any
shed material and the tiny percentage of unfiltered fuel. For
recirculating fuel polishing, it doesn't matter if they let some
unfiltered fuel past since it'll get filtered next time around. And
I've found that the Racor beyond the paper filters last *much* longer
trapping the tiny amount of shed fibers from the TP filter then if they
got the dirty fuel directly without the TP filter.

The main advantage of the paper depth filters is that they can filter
down to very small particle size and they can hold a whole lot of crud,
large and small, without clogging up. IOW, perfect for fuel polishing.

On my boat, I got into some rough weather that stirred the fuel up and
clogged the Racor I had at the time in only around 20 mins. I put in my
backup element and it also clogged in around 20 mins. So I was stuck
without a filter. I ended up having to take fuel out of the main tank,
manually pour it through a funnel with a paper towel sheet in it like a
coffee filter and into another tank and run the engine from that with
only the primary engine filter beyond that. The paper towel sheet had
lots of black particles on it after filtering only a small amount of
fuel, like a half gallon.

After that experience, I installed a pair of the TP filters, the walbro
pump, etc., from the trawlerworld site. Without cleaning the tank, I've
not had a single dirty fuel problem since. The used TP rolls come out
with a lot of black on them. The Racor 2 micron filter that's past the
TP filters is now 2 years old and is still clean. I monitor the filter
condition with vacuum gauges.

When I'm polishing, fuel goes through a pair of TP filters and then
through the 2 micron Racor and back to the tank. The fact that the 2
micron Racor is still clean after 2 years with a very dirty tank tells
me that the TP filters are doing something, especially since I clogged 2
of the Racors after 20 minutes without the TP filters.

Fuel going to the engine goes through one more filter, the engine
mounted final filter. I'm not sure what particle size that's rated for
but it's probably a 10 or 15 micron.

Yes, my results are entirely non-scientific. I've not done any
measurements of how well the filters are working. I only know they are
working great for me.

Steve

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

From all the empirical evidence I have decided to use a Gulf Coast
filter followed by a Raycor with a 2 uM element and a Walbro
pump. Anyone have a source for the Gulf Coast filter? I'm tending
towards the larger paper towel version unless someone has good
reason that the smaller toilet paper version will be sufficient. I'm
struggling with using quilted vs perfumed vs little flowers though :)

Doug
s/v Callista


Doug-
I can supply you with either the Gulf Coast F-1 (paper towell) or the JR
(TP) filters and the Walbro 6092...I have all in stock...contact me by email
or phone if I can help.

Note that there are some clearance issues with the F-1 filter...see the Gulf
Coast Filter web site http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/Product%20Info.htm
for dimensions.

Charlie Johnson
JTB Marine Service
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
727.560.9065

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

From all the empirical evidence I have decided to use a Gulf Coast
filter followed by a Raycor with a 2 uM element and a Walbro
pump. Anyone have a source for the Gulf Coast filter? I'm tending
towards the larger paper towel version unless someone has good
reason that the smaller toilet paper version will be sufficient. I'm
struggling with using quilted vs perfumed vs little flowers though :)

Doug
s/v Callista


Doug-
I can supply you with either the Gulf Coast F-1 (paper towell) or the JR
(TP) filters and the Walbro 6092...I have all in stock...contact me by email
or phone if I can help.

Note that there are some clearance issues with the F-1 filter...see the Gulf
Coast Filter web site http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/Product%20Info.htm
for dimensions.

Charlie Johnson
JTB Marine Service
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
727.560.9065

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

Thanks Charlie!

I'll send you an email direct to get details. I took a quick look at the
GC website and specifically the F1 filter. It shows no indication that
paper towel rolls are used as the filter element. They show a element
that they sell. This is not a problem as a specific filter element designed
for the unit is OK with me, and I can always fall back on PT rolls.
Also don't see any mention of the Jr unit.

Doug

"Charlie J" wrote in message
...
From all the empirical evidence I have decided to use a Gulf Coast
filter followed by a Raycor with a 2 uM element and a Walbro
pump. Anyone have a source for the Gulf Coast filter? I'm tending
towards the larger paper towel version unless someone has good
reason that the smaller toilet paper version will be sufficient. I'm
struggling with using quilted vs perfumed vs little flowers though :)

Doug
s/v Callista


Doug-
I can supply you with either the Gulf Coast F-1 (paper towell) or the JR
(TP) filters and the Walbro 6092...I have all in stock...contact me by
email
or phone if I can help.

Note that there are some clearance issues with the F-1 filter...see the
Gulf
Coast Filter web site http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/Product%20Info.htm
for dimensions.

Charlie Johnson
JTB Marine Service
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
727.560.9065

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

Thanks Charlie!

I'll send you an email direct to get details. I took a quick look at the
GC website and specifically the F1 filter. It shows no indication that
paper towel rolls are used as the filter element. They show a element
that they sell. This is not a problem as a specific filter element designed
for the unit is OK with me, and I can always fall back on PT rolls.
Also don't see any mention of the Jr unit.

Doug

"Charlie J" wrote in message
...
From all the empirical evidence I have decided to use a Gulf Coast
filter followed by a Raycor with a 2 uM element and a Walbro
pump. Anyone have a source for the Gulf Coast filter? I'm tending
towards the larger paper towel version unless someone has good
reason that the smaller toilet paper version will be sufficient. I'm
struggling with using quilted vs perfumed vs little flowers though :)

Doug
s/v Callista


Doug-
I can supply you with either the Gulf Coast F-1 (paper towell) or the JR
(TP) filters and the Walbro 6092...I have all in stock...contact me by
email
or phone if I can help.

Note that there are some clearance issues with the F-1 filter...see the
Gulf
Coast Filter web site http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/Product%20Info.htm
for dimensions.

Charlie Johnson
JTB Marine Service
St. Petersburg, FL 33701
727.560.9065

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

Doug - Since you're messing around with changes, you might what to have a
look at what friend Ray did for ideas if nothing else. See:
http://sundowner.thebilge.com/fuelsystem.htm
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I'm building a whole new unit for all the uptakes and returns. My
tanks are built-in. Integral to the hull. A plate containing everything
bolts through the top of the tank. But if I decide to place the return
for the polishing system at the opposite end of the tank, I'll have to
fashion a second unit at the opposite end.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
That works. I put the pickup at bottom and return at top thru the filler
hole. Some people use the tank return -- they remove hose or have a
three-way valve. You might be able to connect a hose to your
draincock --
which would simplify things.
Len

I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while
polishing.
Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at the
opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed
up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so
draining
out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy.

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow
thru
a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system.
Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for
20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my
engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way
is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all
fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum
around
10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is
getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air
around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air
hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it
around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing
to
help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a
quart
or
two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue
this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

Doug - Since you're messing around with changes, you might what to have a
look at what friend Ray did for ideas if nothing else. See:
http://sundowner.thebilge.com/fuelsystem.htm
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I'm building a whole new unit for all the uptakes and returns. My
tanks are built-in. Integral to the hull. A plate containing everything
bolts through the top of the tank. But if I decide to place the return
for the polishing system at the opposite end of the tank, I'll have to
fashion a second unit at the opposite end.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
That works. I put the pickup at bottom and return at top thru the filler
hole. Some people use the tank return -- they remove hose or have a
three-way valve. You might be able to connect a hose to your
draincock --
which would simplify things.
Len

I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while
polishing.
Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at the
opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed
up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so
draining
out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy.

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow
thru
a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system.
Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for
20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my
engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way
is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all
fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum
around
10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is
getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air
around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air
hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it
around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing
to
help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a
quart
or
two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue
this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

Good info, thanks!

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Doug - Since you're messing around with changes, you might what to have a
look at what friend Ray did for ideas if nothing else. See:
http://sundowner.thebilge.com/fuelsystem.htm
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I'm building a whole new unit for all the uptakes and returns. My
tanks are built-in. Integral to the hull. A plate containing everything
bolts through the top of the tank. But if I decide to place the return
for the polishing system at the opposite end of the tank, I'll have to
fashion a second unit at the opposite end.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
That works. I put the pickup at bottom and return at top thru the
filler
hole. Some people use the tank return -- they remove hose or have a
three-way valve. You might be able to connect a hose to your
draincock --
which would simplify things.
Len

I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while
polishing.
Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at
the
opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed
up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so
draining
out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy.

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow
thru
a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone
system.
Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for
20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my
engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One
way
is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not
all
fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum
around
10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter
is
getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of
air
around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an
air
hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it
around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while
polishing
to
help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a
quart
or
two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue
this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

Good info, thanks!

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Doug - Since you're messing around with changes, you might what to have a
look at what friend Ray did for ideas if nothing else. See:
http://sundowner.thebilge.com/fuelsystem.htm
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I'm building a whole new unit for all the uptakes and returns. My
tanks are built-in. Integral to the hull. A plate containing everything
bolts through the top of the tank. But if I decide to place the return
for the polishing system at the opposite end of the tank, I'll have to
fashion a second unit at the opposite end.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
That works. I put the pickup at bottom and return at top thru the
filler
hole. Some people use the tank return -- they remove hose or have a
three-way valve. You might be able to connect a hose to your
draincock --
which would simplify things.
Len

I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while
polishing.
Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at
the
opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed
up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so
draining
out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy.

Doug

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow
thru
a
polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone
system.
Some
time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for
20-25psi.
I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my
engine.
Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One
way
is
variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not
all
fuel
being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum
around
10
psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter
is
getting
clogged.

As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of
air
around
the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an
air
hose,
and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it
around.
He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while
polishing
to
help
keep particulate matter in suspension.

Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a
quart
or
two
off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue
this,
discarding the water, until no more is seen.

FWIW.
Len

--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.

Fuel transfer/polishing pump
 

Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson"

Makes sense, but there is quite alot of evidence out there that
a polishing system is a good thing to have. I can't really
increase the size of my on-engine filter. I could increase the
size of the Raycor, but at the pore sizes I run (30 micron) in it make it
necessary to change the on-engine filter regularly as well.
Bigger Raycor won't fix the problem.

What's the GPH on your engine?

If you go to a larger Racor you could easily change to a smaller micron
element. It fact, I have never understood why people don't run as small a
micron element as they can in the first filter after the fuel tank. Why let
anything near the micron size of the engine mounted filter get to that filter
at all?

Capt. Bill