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Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
-One alternator lead to house batteries (two 6 volts wired in series)
-One alternator lead to starting battery -One shore power charger lead to house battery -One shore power charger lead to starter battery -Starter battery to bank one switch lead -House battery to bank two switch lead Seems there is a better way to do this but now that I'm finally putting it together I don't remember what the better way is! Do I have it right? Help! Thanks, Stephen |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:Ezski.5$bu6.0
@newsfe12.lga: -One alternator lead to house batteries (two 6 volts wired in series) -One alternator lead to starting battery -One shore power charger lead to house battery -One shore power charger lead to starter battery -Starter battery to bank one switch lead -House battery to bank two switch lead Seems there is a better way to do this but now that I'm finally putting it together I don't remember what the better way is! Do I have it right? Help! Thanks, Stephen How many alternators do you have, one or two?? If you have just one, and there are two wires leading from the alternator output to the two batteries, you have just connected them in parallel. If this is the case, when you crank the starter, the house battery current backs up through that alternator wire, which is probably NOT rated for a couple of hundred possible amps, creating quite a fire hazard when the starter melts the wires! If you have two alternators, this is fine. The same goes for the charger. If you have just a single output charger with both + wires going to the two batteries, that, also, parallels the battery banks, creating a similar fire hazard. Now, if the alternator or charger cables are hooked straight to these two batteries, they effectively bypass the battery switch, rendering it useless to separate the two batteries. There is no "off". If you have a single alternator and single output charger and have BOTH of them connected to the COMMON terminal of the big battery switch...not the batteries or starter cable directly...that'll work fine. Just set the switch to BOTH and either charger will charge BOTH just fine in parallel, which is what BOTH does, anyways. We have to know more DETAILED information about your setup to figure out what you have connected. Use the | - + _ / characters and draw us a little schematic of it. Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Larry wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:Ezski.5$bu6.0 @newsfe12.lga: -One alternator lead to house batteries (two 6 volts wired in series) -One alternator lead to starting battery -One shore power charger lead to house battery -One shore power charger lead to starter battery -Starter battery to bank one switch lead -House battery to bank two switch lead Seems there is a better way to do this but now that I'm finally putting it together I don't remember what the better way is! Do I have it right? Help! Thanks, Stephen How many alternators do you have, one or two?? One. And one AC charger. Fortunately I haven't hooked up the starting battery yet. If you have just one, and there are two wires leading from the alternator output to the two batteries, you have just connected them in parallel. If this is the case, when you crank the starter, the house battery current backs up through that alternator wire, which is probably NOT rated for a couple of hundred possible amps, creating quite a fire hazard when the starter melts the wires! If you have two alternators, this is fine. The same goes for the charger. If you have just a single output charger with both + wires going to the two batteries, that, also, parallels the battery banks, creating a similar fire hazard. Now, if the alternator or charger cables are hooked straight to these two batteries, they effectively bypass the battery switch, rendering it useless to separate the two batteries. There is no "off". If you have a single alternator and single output charger and have BOTH of them connected to the COMMON terminal of the big battery switch...not the batteries or starter cable directly...that'll work fine. Just set the switch to BOTH and either charger will charge BOTH just fine in parallel, which is what BOTH does, anyways. So I hook the alternator and AC charger to the common terminal of the big battery switch, ditch the extra wire the PO had coming off of each, and I have terminal 1 on the big battery switch go to the starter battery and 2 terminal go to the house battery. Is that right? The DC panel is also hooked to the common terminal. We have to know more DETAILED information about your setup to figure out what you have connected. Use the | - + _ / characters and draw us a little schematic of it. Sahly! No speaka elec-tahnics! :-( If you need more info with a diagram show me how to do it and I will. Thanks a million Larry!! Stephen |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
... Larry wrote: Stephen Trapani wrote in news:Ezski.5$bu6.0 @newsfe12.lga: -One alternator lead to house batteries (two 6 volts wired in series) -One alternator lead to starting battery -One shore power charger lead to house battery -One shore power charger lead to starter battery -Starter battery to bank one switch lead -House battery to bank two switch lead Seems there is a better way to do this but now that I'm finally putting it together I don't remember what the better way is! Do I have it right? Help! Thanks, Stephen How many alternators do you have, one or two?? One. And one AC charger. Fortunately I haven't hooked up the starting battery yet. If you have just one, and there are two wires leading from the alternator output to the two batteries, you have just connected them in parallel. If this is the case, when you crank the starter, the house battery current backs up through that alternator wire, which is probably NOT rated for a couple of hundred possible amps, creating quite a fire hazard when the starter melts the wires! If you have two alternators, this is fine. The same goes for the charger. If you have just a single output charger with both + wires going to the two batteries, that, also, parallels the battery banks, creating a similar fire hazard. Now, if the alternator or charger cables are hooked straight to these two batteries, they effectively bypass the battery switch, rendering it useless to separate the two batteries. There is no "off". If you have a single alternator and single output charger and have BOTH of them connected to the COMMON terminal of the big battery switch...not the batteries or starter cable directly...that'll work fine. Just set the switch to BOTH and either charger will charge BOTH just fine in parallel, which is what BOTH does, anyways. So I hook the alternator and AC charger to the common terminal of the big battery switch, ditch the extra wire the PO had coming off of each, and I have terminal 1 on the big battery switch go to the starter battery and 2 terminal go to the house battery. Is that right? The DC panel is also hooked to the common terminal. We have to know more DETAILED information about your setup to figure out what you have connected. Use the | - + _ / characters and draw us a little schematic of it. Sahly! No speaka elec-tahnics! :-( If you need more info with a diagram show me how to do it and I will. Thanks a million Larry!! Stephen Here's a schematic of sorts that came with a product I purchased for my system. I have two batt banks (start and house), one batt charger, one batt switch, one alternator, and now one combiner/isolator. https://resources.myeporia.com/compa...atteryLink.pdf -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Stephen Trapani wrote:
Sahly! No speaka elec-tahnics! :-( If you can not produce a schematic of what you are doing and interpret one, you have no, that's ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ABSOLUTELY NO, business fiddling with this stuff yourself. It isn't rocket science and you should be able to figure out what to do from some books and web research but it involves being able to draw it out on a piece of paper and figure out what it is doing. Get some professional help. It will be expensive but so are fires and cleaning acid from exploded batteries out of your boat. Passenger lawsuits are even more expensive. -- Roger Long |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
* Stephen Trapani wrote, On 7/9/2007 3:53 PM:
If you need more info with a diagram show me how to do it and I will. Thanks a million Larry!! Stephen The problem of course with the traditional setup is that if you leave the switch in "Both" you can kill both batteries. And, if the switch isn't wired with an alternator shutoff, a mistake can kill the diodes. A better solution is to use some method that automatically combines when charging, and disconnects otherwise. There are several combiners that are based on relays that do this. I use a slightly different technique, an EchoCharge, that gives the stating bats a nice charging current whenever the main bank is charged from any source. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Roger Long wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote: Sahly! No speaka elec-tahnics! :-( If you can not produce a schematic of what you are doing and interpret one, you have no, that's ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ABSOLUTELY NO, business fiddling with this stuff yourself. It isn't rocket science and you should be able to figure out what to do from some books and web research but it involves being able to draw it out on a piece of paper and figure out what it is doing. It's not that I can't produce a schematic, it's that I don't know how to do it with the pluses and minuses on this keyboard like Larry asked. Can you show me what he meant? Get some professional help. It will be expensive but so are fires and cleaning acid from exploded batteries out of your boat. Passenger lawsuits are even more expensive. I know a fair amount about electronics. Plus I have a diesel gmechanic helping me, but he doesn't know much about boats. Stephen |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:snwki.452
: So I hook the alternator and AC charger to the common terminal of the big battery switch, ditch the extra wire the PO had coming off of each, and I have terminal 1 on the big battery switch go to the starter battery and 2 terminal go to the house battery. Is that right? There is a problem hooking it up this way. If you EVER screw up and plug in the charger with that switch in the OFF position, the full open circuit voltage of the battery charger, somewhere around 20-25 pulsating VDC, will be applied to everything connected to the COMMON side of the switch....without the battery regulating the maximum voltage of it. This will blow every electronic gadget hooked to it on a live circuit....EVEN IF IT IS NOT TURNED ON! Electronic gadgets use electronic switching, not real power switches, those push button on gadgets. It will destroy them So, I don't advocate doing it. I advocate using an isolator for both. The diode isolators are fine. Connect the alternator to one and the charger to another...SEPARATELY... There are 3 terminals....BATTERY 1, BATTERY 2, SOURCE (the alternator on one and the charger on the other). This will CHARGE both batteries from whatever charging source is running, even both, WITHOUT inadvertently parallelling the batteries because one of the diodes will be reversed biased when one battery tries to load the other when running on batteries. The other way to do it is with continuous-duty 12VDC and 115VAC contactors available from auto parts places more cheaply. These look just like a starter relay, except they have coils made for continuous duty (always on). When I hook these up, I use a manual switch feeding 12VDC by the engine controls for the alternator charging and a 115VAC contactor for the single-ended battery charger that works automatically any time you plug the boat charger in. The heavy current contacts of the 12VDC contactor parallel the + of the starting battery with the + of the house batteries and have large capacity short cables between the two battery banks so I can parallel all batteries for starting, sort of like jumper cables, if the starting battery fails and the house batteries aren't dead. It gives the starter all the power I have for starting a recalcitrant engine. Normally, I would leave the charging switch off, starting the engine on the starting battery alone without loading it with the partially-dead house batteries we used last night. As soon as the engine starts, I flip the switch, closing the big contactor, parallelling the batteries on the single alternator charging the lot of them. To prevent me from forgetting to open the switch, inadvertently leaving the house wearing out the starting battery all night, the 12V power for this manual charging switch comes from the engine ON switch. Switch off the engine and power is ALWAYS removed from the alternator's contactor, no matter where the charging switch is, disconnecting the parallel circuit used for alternator charging. Placing the manual charging switch right next to the engine keyswitch reminds most, but not all, sailors to check the switch when turning the engine on and off. The normal procedure would be: Charging switch off Engine switch on Crank engine Charging switch to on for charging and running it all from alternator. Shutdown is: Charging switch off Engine off just to get you used to switching the charging to off for the next start. When I plug into a dock, or crank the AC power plant if you have one, the AC voltage automatically closes the AC contactor, parallelling the battery banks for charging from the single output shore power charger. Unplug the boat, the contactor opens the parallel circuit, automatically. AC contactors are found at electrical wholesale stores. Be sure to get one that is explosion proof in case there is a gas leak, even in a diesel boat. Sealed contacts corrode much later than open contacts. Both batteries will charge, without question, from the AC charger, automatically placed in parallel for charging by this contactor any time 115VAC is applied to the boat/charger circuit. Get the power for the AC contactor from the charger side of the charger's AC circuit breaker. If you turn off the charger with the breaker...the battery contactor separates the batteries, automatically. Simple and very effective. Damned near "Captain Proof"! All this is done SEPARATELY from the battery switches....directly to the batteries, themselves. The contactors are right on the side of the battery boxes to reduce cable length/resistance. Hooking it up separately eliminates any possibility of the alternator or charger being connected up to expensive electronics without a proper battery in the circuit. You can charge from either source with both battery switches OFF this way. It matters not where the battery switches are set. Be sure to FUSE the batteries' primary circuits, too! WAY too many boats have no circuit protection in the battery primary circuit! A shorted starter makes a battery go BOOM! It doesn't have to be that way. I'm using #2 cables with 250A fusible links available from West Marine. The starter doesn't blow them....even if the engine is locked unless you hold the starter on over a few seconds.. EACH Battery (-) through fusible link to common (ground). 115VAC CONTACTOR |-------| |--------| | | STARTING+-----|-------| |--------|------------+HOUSE 12VDC CONTACTOR +12V-----][-------][-----12VDC CONTACTOR COIL-----GND ENGINE CHARGE KEYSW SWITCH 115VAC (HOT)------][------115VAC CONTACTOR COIL---AC NEUTRAL CHARGER BREAKER (Sure wish we could post pictures of SCHEMATICS!) Because the interbattery contacts NEVER leave the load disconnected from a battery, switching them hot charging never pulses anything. You see the lights get brighter...(c; If you don't care that the house batteries may also be used by the starter, just leave the CHARGE SWITCH on all the time. The engine keyswitch always turns off the 12VDC contactor, anyways. Larry -- |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:34:01 +0000, Larry wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:snwki.452 : So I hook the alternator and AC charger to the common terminal of the big battery switch, ditch the extra wire the PO had coming off of each, and I have terminal 1 on the big battery switch go to the starter battery and 2 terminal go to the house battery. Is that right? There is a problem hooking it up this way. If you EVER screw up and plug in the charger with that switch in the OFF position, the full open circuit voltage of the battery charger, somewhere around 20-25 pulsating VDC, will be applied to everything connected to the COMMON side of the switch....without the battery regulating the maximum voltage of it. This will blow every electronic gadget hooked to it on a live circuit....EVEN IF IT IS NOT TURNED ON! Electronic gadgets use electronic switching, not real power switches, those push button on gadgets. It will destroy them So, I don't advocate doing it. I advocate using an isolator for both. The diode isolators are fine. Connect the alternator to one and the charger to another...SEPARATELY... There are 3 terminals....BATTERY 1, BATTERY 2, SOURCE (the alternator on one and the charger on the other). This will CHARGE both batteries from whatever charging source is running, even both, WITHOUT inadvertently parallelling the batteries because one of the diodes will be reversed biased when one battery tries to load the other when running on batteries. The other way to do it is with continuous-duty 12VDC and 115VAC contactors available from auto parts places more cheaply. These look just like a starter relay, except they have coils made for continuous duty (always on). Larry, Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contractors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these.. A whole bunch snipped. Larry Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
It's a lot of work to produce a schematic that way. Scanners and digital
cameras are so common now that posting a jpg of hand sketch would be much easier and clearer but newsgroup rules prohibit posting of images. If you have a web site or friend with one, you could upload the image to the server and post the link here as I do often. You need better, or clearer, advice than you'll get here though. Try and find a mechanic who knows boat systems. I would recommend a dual output battery charger. It will make everything much simpler. -- Roger Long |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Larry,
If you email me a jpg of a schematic, I'll put it on my sever and post a link. -- Roger Long |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Roger Long wrote:
It's a lot of work to produce a schematic that way. Scanners and digital cameras are so common now that posting a jpg of hand sketch would be much easier and clearer but newsgroup rules prohibit posting of images. If you have a web site or friend with one, you could upload the image to the server and post the link here as I do often. You need better, or clearer, advice than you'll get here though. Try and find a mechanic who knows boat systems. I would recommend a dual output battery charger. It will make everything much simpler. In that scenario where does the alternator go? Stephen |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message ... Roger Long wrote: It's a lot of work to produce a schematic that way. Scanners and digital cameras are so common now that posting a jpg of hand sketch would be much easier and clearer but newsgroup rules prohibit posting of images. If you have a web site or friend with one, you could upload the image to the server and post the link here as I do often. You need better, or clearer, advice than you'll get here though. Try and find a mechanic who knows boat systems. I would recommend a dual output battery charger. It will make everything much simpler. In that scenario where does the alternator go? Stephen Myself, I use a dual output battery charger for charging both banks. There are several brands out there depending on the size of your pocketbook. For charging while the motor is running, you can use a device such as this: http://www.yandina.com/c100Info.htm Leanne - W1WXS s/v Fundy |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Larry wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:snwki.452 : So I hook the alternator and AC charger to the common terminal of the big battery switch, ditch the extra wire the PO had coming off of each, and I have terminal 1 on the big battery switch go to the starter battery and 2 terminal go to the house battery. Is that right? There is a problem hooking it up this way. If you EVER screw up and plug in the charger with that switch in the OFF position, the full open circuit voltage of the battery charger, somewhere around 20-25 pulsating VDC, will be applied to everything connected to the COMMON side of the switch....without the battery regulating the maximum voltage of it. This will blow every electronic gadget hooked to it on a live circuit....EVEN IF IT IS NOT TURNED ON! Electronic gadgets use electronic switching, not real power switches, those push button on gadgets. It will destroy them So call me crazy (and cheap!), but could I let a dab of 5200 harden on the switch so it can't be turned to off? Would everything be safe then? Thanks everyone for the help!! Stephen |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:%JRki.613$n_
: So call me crazy (and cheap!), but could I let a dab of 5200 harden on the switch so it can't be turned to off? Would everything be safe then? Thanks everyone for the help!! Stephen No. The reason for the switch is to make the boat "safer" during periods of disuse or storage (misuse??). You can do the same thing by disconnecting a battery post. Hook the house to the house battery. Hook the starter to the starting battery. Put this switch in between the + terminals with battery jumper wires: http://tinyurl.com/2qbjp7 $25 plus the cables. You can switch it on or off any ol' time you like, even with the engine running. All it does is act like a jumper cable jumpering one battery + terminal to the other, letting the alternator connected to the starting battery charge both house and starting in parallel. No matter where the switch is positioned, house stuff is always connected to the house battery and starting stuff is always connected to the starting battery. The reason to use heavy wire with so heavy a switch is the "jumper cable effect", allowing you to switch it on to crank the beast from the house batteries....unless, of course, they are dead. The contactors I previously posted do just what this switch will do....but will NOT let you go off for a couple of months leaving the batteries paralleled, killing them all in the process. You can eliminate the A-B-Both-OFF switches if you like. That also keeps the wife from switching the house to the starting battery when the lights start to go dim and you're not watching her....(c; Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 02:34:01 +0000, Larry wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:snwki.452 : So I hook the alternator and AC charger to the common terminal of the big battery switch, ditch the extra wire the PO had coming off of each, and I have terminal 1 on the big battery switch go to the starter battery and 2 terminal go to the house battery. Is that right? There is a problem hooking it up this way. If you EVER screw up and plug in the charger with that switch in the OFF position, the full open circuit voltage of the battery charger, somewhere around 20-25 pulsating VDC, will be applied to everything connected to the COMMON side of the switch....without the battery regulating the maximum voltage of it. This will blow every electronic gadget hooked to it on a live circuit....EVEN IF IT IS NOT TURNED ON! Electronic gadgets use electronic switching, not real power switches, those push button on gadgets. It will destroy them So, I don't advocate doing it. I advocate using an isolator for both. The diode isolators are fine. Connect the alternator to one and the charger to another...SEPARATELY... There are 3 terminals....BATTERY 1, BATTERY 2, SOURCE (the alternator on one and the charger on the other). This will CHARGE both batteries from whatever charging source is running, even both, WITHOUT inadvertently parallelling the batteries because one of the diodes will be reversed biased when one battery tries to load the other when running on batteries. The other way to do it is with continuous-duty 12VDC and 115VAC contactors available from auto parts places more cheaply. These look just like a starter relay, except they have coils made for continuous duty (always on). Larry, I thought I sent this a day, or so, ago but it never turned up on the web so I'm re-sending it. Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contractors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these to wire my power up/down anchor winch. Much bunch snipped. Larry Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Bruce wrote in
: Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contractors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these to wire my power up/down anchor winch. You don't need continuous duty for anchor winch contactors. Any 12V starter solenoid will work just fine. Last time I looked, Ford was still using them on their cars...(c; That should make them really cheap. The only difference between a 350A starting solenoid and a 350A continuous-duty solenoid is how the coil is wound...and cooled. Both of them will crank a diesel from the house batteries. The starting solenoid will overheat after about 30-40 minutes of being "on". The continuous duty coil is larger with better cooling, costs a little more to produce. I'm using a 200A, continuous-duty solenoid to power the entire electronic suite bus on Liohheart. It draws about 1/4A to power its coil, which is left on for days at a time at sea. A red light over its power switch lights up the cabin at night and reminds my captain to shut off the electronics throughout Lionheart when he goes home. Only the emergency VHF (an Icom M59) and the Icom M802 HF radio are separately wired. Push the "electronics power knob" in and the boat shuts down, en masse. Works great. You won't overhead starter solenoid coils running the winches up and down..... Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Bruce wrote in
: Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contractors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these.. They look just like regular starter solenoid relays except the coil is larger, draws less amperage to pull in the plunger and have better internal heat sinking. Starter solenoids use more current because they are built so cheaply with lots less windings. These solenoids may also be found in car stereo stores as they use them for switching the beast power amps the kiddies have in their trunks. Many are used to power those driving headlights with the big quartz bulbs, too. http://www.stancor.com/jsp/relays.jsp I'm using the Type 70 Stancor continuous duty. It's rated at 80A continuous and 400A "inrush", like a stalled starter would draw. Both the battery contactors and electronics power contactor are all these cheap relays, all sealed up to keep the sea air at bay.... Any little toggle switch (1A) can control large currents remotely with these cheap contactors. They are sealed, so provide an explosion-proof solution to switching battery bank monsters in the bilge. They do draw power for this convenience....about what a cabin light draws...1/2 to 1A off the batteries, unlike a big switch at no drain, so you must disable them at storage time. Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:23:20 +0000, Larry wrote:
Bruce wrote in : Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contractors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these to wire my power up/down anchor winch. You don't need continuous duty for anchor winch contactors. Any 12V starter solenoid will work just fine. Last time I looked, Ford was still using them on their cars...(c; That should make them really cheap. The only difference between a 350A starting solenoid and a 350A continuous-duty solenoid is how the coil is wound...and cooled. Both of them will crank a diesel from the house batteries. The starting solenoid will overheat after about 30-40 minutes of being "on". The continuous duty coil is larger with better cooling, costs a little more to produce. I'm using a 200A, continuous-duty solenoid to power the entire electronic suite bus on Liohheart. It draws about 1/4A to power its coil, which is left on for days at a time at sea. A red light over its power switch lights up the cabin at night and reminds my captain to shut off the electronics throughout Lionheart when he goes home. Only the emergency VHF (an Icom M59) and the Icom M802 HF radio are separately wired. Push the "electronics power knob" in and the boat shuts down, en masse. Works great. You won't overhead starter solenoid coils running the winches up and down..... Larry Larry, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm trying to gain knowledge. In a previous post you referred to continuous duty 12 V DC relays/solonoids as being cheaper in the auto shop. In the context you used the term I thought you were referring to high amperage, continuous duty devices and I wanted some. I did mention the anchor winch (which I know doesn't need continuous duty switches) but I also want them to power other systems as well, paralleling battery banks, etc. If you can buy high amperage, continuous duty 12 VDC relays in the auto shop please tell me what they are so I can get 'em too. .. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:48:20 +0000, Larry wrote:
Bruce wrote in : Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contractors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these.. They look just like regular starter solenoid relays except the coil is larger, draws less amperage to pull in the plunger and have better internal heat sinking. Starter solenoids use more current because they are built so cheaply with lots less windings. These solenoids may also be found in car stereo stores as they use them for switching the beast power amps the kiddies have in their trunks. Many are used to power those driving headlights with the big quartz bulbs, too. http://www.stancor.com/jsp/relays.jsp I'm using the Type 70 Stancor continuous duty. It's rated at 80A continuous and 400A "inrush", like a stalled starter would draw. Both the battery contactors and electronics power contactor are all these cheap relays, all sealed up to keep the sea air at bay.... Any little toggle switch (1A) can control large currents remotely with these cheap contactors. They are sealed, so provide an explosion-proof solution to switching battery bank monsters in the bilge. They do draw power for this convenience....about what a cabin light draws...1/2 to 1A off the batteries, unlike a big switch at no drain, so you must disable them at storage time. Larry I also answered another, much shorter, post with a plea for more information which you have included in this post. Thanks for the info as I am in the process of rewiring a 35 ft. power boat and wanted to use relays for stitching with remote control switches and was having trouble finding reasonably priced continuous duty contactors. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:33:12 +0700, Bruce
wrote: Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contractors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these to wire my power up/down anchor winch. The winch manufacturers sell special contactor packages for this purpose.. I expect that these things are mechanically and/or electrically interlocked so that they will not put a short across the battery if you try to raise and lower the anchor simultaneously. Such a situation _is_ possible if you aren't careful how you wire up individual contactors. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Bruce wrote in
: If you can buy high amperage, continuous duty 12 VDC relays in the auto shop please tell me what they are so I can get 'em too. These Stancor continuous duty relays are available in our NAPA and AutoZone stores, here. Is 80A continuous, 400A intermittent "high amperage" enough? It'll crank a diesel without even getting warm. Stancor Series 70's, about $30. Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Bruce wrote in
: I also answered another, much shorter, post with a plea for more information which you have included in this post. Thanks for the info as I am in the process of rewiring a 35 ft. power boat and wanted to use relays for stitching with remote control switches and was having trouble finding reasonably priced continuous duty contactors. Make the control switches little mini-toggles, the ones with the little bathandle in silver. Tell the customer you think those tiny switches will handle all that current...(c; The look on their face is PRICELESS... In a power boat, with the alternators running, the contactors' power drain is of no consequence. In a sailboat without our monstrous 6V beasts on Lionheart, their 1/2 to 1A drain might be more of an issue. The convenience of remote control without running heavy long lines in confined spaces is well worth the effort and subsequent small power usage...even continuous duty. Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Peter Bennett wrote in
news.com: The winch manufacturers sell special contactor packages for this purpose.. I expect that these things are mechanically and/or electrically interlocked so that they will not put a short across the battery if you try to raise and lower the anchor simultaneously. Such a situation _is_ possible if you aren't careful how you wire up individual contactors. I use a center off on-off-on toggle switch, myself. You can't press up and down simultaneously that way.... Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:46:23 +0000, Larry wrote:
Peter Bennett wrote in rnews.com: The winch manufacturers sell special contactor packages for this purpose.. I expect that these things are mechanically and/or electrically interlocked so that they will not put a short across the battery if you try to raise and lower the anchor simultaneously. Such a situation _is_ possible if you aren't careful how you wire up individual contactors. I use a center off on-off-on toggle switch, myself. You can't press up and down simultaneously that way.... Larry True - and safe if that one switch is the only control. However, on many power boats, there will be winch controls at the lower helm and on the flybridge, and foot switches on the foredeck - in that case, a safety interlock against incorrect operation is required. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:53:23 -0700, Peter Bennett
wrote: On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:46:23 +0000, Larry wrote: Peter Bennett wrote in ernews.com: The winch manufacturers sell special contactor packages for this purpose.. I expect that these things are mechanically and/or electrically interlocked so that they will not put a short across the battery if you try to raise and lower the anchor simultaneously. Such a situation _is_ possible if you aren't careful how you wire up individual contactors. I use a center off on-off-on toggle switch, myself. You can't press up and down simultaneously that way.... Larry True - and safe if that one switch is the only control. However, on many power boats, there will be winch controls at the lower helm and on the flybridge, and foot switches on the foredeck - in that case, a safety interlock against incorrect operation is required. I think I'd be more likely to rephrase your statement "there will be winch controls at the lower helm and on the flybridge, and foot switches on the foredeck - in that case if you sail with a bunch of fools and idiots a safety interlock against incorrect operation is required." Personally I don't go to sea with these kind of people. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:45:44 +0700, Bruce
wrote: The other way to do it is with continuous-duty 12VDC and 115VAC contactors available from auto parts places more cheaply. These look just like a starter relay, except they have coils made for continuous duty (always on). Larry, Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contactors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these.. .... Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) Here's a cheesy sketch of a 3 position switch capable of driving a winch etc in either direction using beefy contactors such as the Stancor 2 pole make contactors.... No current taken in the OFF position. http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w/803117449/ Here's the Stancor URL that Larry mentioned... http://www.stancor.com/jsp/relays.jsp Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 02:15:53 GMT, Brian Whatcott
wrote: On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:45:44 +0700, Bruce wrote: The other way to do it is with continuous-duty 12VDC and 115VAC contactors available from auto parts places more cheaply. These look just like a starter relay, except they have coils made for continuous duty (always on). Larry, Re these 12 VDC continuous duty contactors available from the auto parts with the capacity to carry starting amperage. Can you elaborate a bit as I could sure use some of these.. ... Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) Here's a cheesy sketch of a 3 position switch capable of driving a winch etc in either direction using beefy contactors such as the Stancor 2 pole make contactors.... No current taken in the OFF position. http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w/803117449/ Here's the Stancor URL that Larry mentioned... http://www.stancor.com/jsp/relays.jsp Brian Whatcott Altus OK Thanks for info. Now I've got to start visiting the auto shops to see what I can find. One good thing about Thailand is that they import from about everywhere. For example I can but US electrical receptacles, junction boxes and so on although most houses use either German or Japanese standard (or local "no standard") stuff. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Brian Whatcott wrote in
: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w/803117449/ And...if you want multiple stations to control the winch, you simply put one rotary switch marked for each station in the common terminal of each station's switch so that only ONE station will have power to this common contact at a time. Only one station will work at a time with no danger of one keying the up and the other keying the down simultaneously....better control for the winch operator. Safety-wise, this would also mean that if the rotary switch were pointing at the footswitch on the bow, some STUPID couldn't wind your fingers into the winch by pressing UP at the station of the helm. It would be even safer if the rotary switch were a KEYSWITCH and you took the key with you on your way to the bow to operate the winch so STUPID couldn't turn the switch to his/her station. That would be the ultimate control....(c; They're YOUR fingers.....right?? Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Bruce wrote in
: (or local "no standard") stuff. Is that like the Middle East with the mercury vapor arc lights hanging on wires out of the ceiling or wall?...(c; Is the TV power cord connected to 240VAC by wrapping the wires around the two pins and holding them in place with masking tape? My whole apartment building, 8 apartments, in Iran was wired to ONE ceramic fuse with all 8 apartments in parallel. The fuse went through one temporary construction electric meter covered in white paint which was connected to the main power bus for our street by an orange #14 drop cord running up the side of the building to a coat hanger wire which held it up above the traffic. At the pole, the drop cord was tied around the concrete pole through a hole and the bare wires were wrapped around the street conductors for a "few turns" so the wind wouldn't blow them off and "something" would make contact. Ever so often, too many electrical loads would blow the fuse. To eliminate the problem, our crack Iranian electrician put a 100 rial coin behind the blown fuse to stop it from blowing. After that, he replaced the orange drop cord, which we simply melted or caught fire several times making toast for breakfast. An electrical short in one apartment's bedroom outlet (only one in each bedroom, of course), caused an electrical explosion, completely destroying that whole apartment's SINGLE CIRCUIT electrical system right down to the fuse base in the basement....of course, melting the orange drop cord, yet again, putting the whole building in the dark about 10PM.... Living in Tehran was always exciting and it had nothing to do with terrorist plots or Islamic Jihads. Seeing these same Iranians operating a nuclear reactor to make plutonium must put terror in the hearts of every Iranian within the Zone of Destruction, especially downwind, never knowing WHEN, not if, it was going to go like Chernobyl. The people in the neighborhood are the ones in danger, not anyone 500 miles away...and certainly not 8000 miles away. Larry -- Try operating your whole neighborhood on a single orange drop cord with no fuse next weekend and see if you don't have similar results! You've gotta watch an Iranian electrician holding onto the grounded cement pole while wrapping the drop cord wires around the hot street conductors, in the dark, at 10AM. NONE of them ever got "old". Nothing beats the sound of your swamp cooler powering up as he gets that big arc from all the swamp coolers starting at once on the roof....(c; |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:20:51 +0000, Larry wrote:
Brian Whatcott wrote in : http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w/803117449/ And...if you want multiple stations to control the winch, you simply put one rotary switch marked for each station in the common terminal of each station's switch so that only ONE station will have power to this common contact at a time. Only one station will work at a time with no danger of one keying the up and the other keying the down simultaneously....better control for the winch operator. Safety-wise, this would also mean that if the rotary switch were pointing at the footswitch on the bow, some STUPID couldn't wind your fingers into the winch by pressing UP at the station of the helm. It would be even safer if the rotary switch were a KEYSWITCH and you took the key with you on your way to the bow to operate the winch so STUPID couldn't turn the switch to his/her station. That would be the ultimate control....(c; They're YOUR fingers.....right?? Larry Here's a cheesy diagram - rev1 - of how multi-station control looks http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w/813216003/ Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Brian Whatcott wrote in
: http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w/813216003/ I was hopin' for a little more class, by now. Maybe some nice AutoCAD panels in a Powerpoint presentation.....hee hee. Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 02:40:43 +0000, Larry wrote:
Brian Whatcott wrote in : http://www.flickr.com/photos/brian_w/813216003/ I was hopin' for a little more class, by now. Maybe some nice AutoCAD panels in a Powerpoint presentation.....hee hee. Larry I didn't even mention the coil stoppers, the positive interlock, the overcurrent resettable fuse...etc.... :-) Brian W |
Anything wrong with this battery wiring setup?
Brian Whatcott wrote in
: I didn't even mention the coil stoppers, the positive interlock, the overcurrent resettable fuse...etc.... :-) Brian W If we make it complex enough....it won't float...(c; Larry -- While in Mexico, I didn't have to press 1 for Spanish. While in Iran, I didn't have to press 1 for Farsi, either. It just isn't fair. |
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