Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

We've heard repeatedly that there are craftsmen in these countries who work
for what to us here in the 'real world' is not even peanuts.

Are there any recent experiences here to tell of such craftsmen in the
fields of electricity, plumbing, electronics, joinery, paint, fiberglass
fabrication or other marine niceties?

If so, what did you have done, and what was the end cost, if you're
comfortable sharing that experience? Were you happy with the outcome,
regardless of the cost? Had/have you priced comparable work in other
locales to be able to say whether it was a bargain, or of particular
craftsmanship, or both?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, preparing to buy the boat, but expecting to need upgrades
and improvements to current states

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

We talked to a lot of people while we were looking for Fintry. Even
considered building new in a low wage place.

There are places where you can get perfectly satisfactory work at wage rates
that are much less than USA -- Spain, Turkey, Brazil, and Poland come to
mind. There are yards in all four that build commercial vessels and some
yachts. They do have the problem that English is not their first language
but their work can be first rate -- if not the equal of
Swan/Hinckley/Campers, at least as good as the next tier. You can find them
in magazines such as Work Boat, Professional Mariner, Maritime Journal, and
International Tugs and Salvage.

Then there are places that do speak English and are cheaper than the USA.
Wage rates in New Zealand dollars are nominally a little less than in USA
dollars, and the Kiwi dollars is at $0.63 US. Canada is also a lower wage
place. We're having a lot of work done in England, where the net is around
2/3 of USA rates.

I would not pick Venezuela right now as a place to have work done -- the
political situation is difficult. Trinidad, I don't know. The key, of
course, is the people you'll actually be dealing with -- know your vendor,
get references, and so forth. Remember, too, that if you get in a dispute
with the yard, you'll be the foreigner in a local court, paying a local
lawyer. A boat is difficult to remove from the scene if things don't go
well....

Also, budget for a substantial weakening in the USA dollar against many
currencies. I'm not a currency specialist, but I watch currency rates
(especially the pound right now) and I wouldn't be shocked if the dollar
weakened 25% against the world. This will, of course, help our exporters,
but it makes work done abroad more expensive.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
..
"Skip Gundlach"
.due.to.spam wrote in
message ink.net...
We've heard repeatedly that there are craftsmen in these countries who
work
for what to us here in the 'real world' is not even peanuts.

Are there any recent experiences here to tell of such craftsmen in the
fields of electricity, plumbing, electronics, joinery, paint, fiberglass
fabrication or other marine niceties?

If so, what did you have done, and what was the end cost, if you're
comfortable sharing that experience? Were you happy with the outcome,
regardless of the cost? Had/have you priced comparable work in other
locales to be able to say whether it was a bargain, or of particular
craftsmanship, or both?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, preparing to buy the boat, but expecting to need upgrades
and improvements to current states

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

We talked to a lot of people while we were looking for Fintry. Even
considered building new in a low wage place.

There are places where you can get perfectly satisfactory work at wage rates
that are much less than USA -- Spain, Turkey, Brazil, and Poland come to
mind. There are yards in all four that build commercial vessels and some
yachts. They do have the problem that English is not their first language
but their work can be first rate -- if not the equal of
Swan/Hinckley/Campers, at least as good as the next tier. You can find them
in magazines such as Work Boat, Professional Mariner, Maritime Journal, and
International Tugs and Salvage.

Then there are places that do speak English and are cheaper than the USA.
Wage rates in New Zealand dollars are nominally a little less than in USA
dollars, and the Kiwi dollars is at $0.63 US. Canada is also a lower wage
place. We're having a lot of work done in England, where the net is around
2/3 of USA rates.

I would not pick Venezuela right now as a place to have work done -- the
political situation is difficult. Trinidad, I don't know. The key, of
course, is the people you'll actually be dealing with -- know your vendor,
get references, and so forth. Remember, too, that if you get in a dispute
with the yard, you'll be the foreigner in a local court, paying a local
lawyer. A boat is difficult to remove from the scene if things don't go
well....

Also, budget for a substantial weakening in the USA dollar against many
currencies. I'm not a currency specialist, but I watch currency rates
(especially the pound right now) and I wouldn't be shocked if the dollar
weakened 25% against the world. This will, of course, help our exporters,
but it makes work done abroad more expensive.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
..
"Skip Gundlach"
.due.to.spam wrote in
message ink.net...
We've heard repeatedly that there are craftsmen in these countries who
work
for what to us here in the 'real world' is not even peanuts.

Are there any recent experiences here to tell of such craftsmen in the
fields of electricity, plumbing, electronics, joinery, paint, fiberglass
fabrication or other marine niceties?

If so, what did you have done, and what was the end cost, if you're
comfortable sharing that experience? Were you happy with the outcome,
regardless of the cost? Had/have you priced comparable work in other
locales to be able to say whether it was a bargain, or of particular
craftsmanship, or both?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, preparing to buy the boat, but expecting to need upgrades
and improvements to current states

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

I had BlueJacket AwlGripped in Grenada at the Spice Island marina and
couldn't have been happier with the work. BlueJacket is 40' and the
cost was about $6K. They did a super job. The owner, Junior, kept us
well informed on the progress and kept the job on schedule. English is
spoken there. Here's a photo of the job:

http://www.geoffschultz.org/200
_Sailing/VE_Los_Roques/imagepages/image2.htm

I've also had a fair amount of work done in Fronteras, Guatemala which
is on the Rio Dulce. There are 2 American's (Chris and Pat) there who
run a business named "The Shop" ( http://www.riodulce.org ) who do just
about anything at very reasonable prices and their work is very good.
When they do the work, it's $25/hr, but when the locals who work for
them do the work, it's $3/hr. The locals tend to do lots of the
painting and varnishing work and do a very good job. I can strongly
recommend them. They send regular progress reports and attach digital
photos of their progress.

The biggest problem in having work done in these places is getting parts
and supplies into them. Things just aren't readibly available. Plus
when you bring things into Guatemala you pay a 30% duty tax. If you
know what you're going to need, you can bring it with you, but if you
forgot something...The closest real place to buy supplies is in
Guatemala City, which is 4+ hours away. The Shop does have someone who
buys things for them there and places them on a bus.

For this exact reason I moved BlueJacket to Ft. Lauderdale this past
spring to do major work on the boat. I was installing a new generator,
wind generator, different davits, solar panels, a hard dodger,
electronics, etc, etc and I knew that trying to get this done down there
would be next to impossible. Plus I was doing a lot of the work myself.
As it was the car could almost drive itself to the marine stores and
Home Depot.

As is almost always the case, there are plusses and minuses to
everything. If you're going to have work done in far away places, then
you have to absorb the transportation costs too. Best of luck making
your decisions!

-- Geoff

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

I had BlueJacket AwlGripped in Grenada at the Spice Island marina and
couldn't have been happier with the work. BlueJacket is 40' and the
cost was about $6K. They did a super job. The owner, Junior, kept us
well informed on the progress and kept the job on schedule. English is
spoken there. Here's a photo of the job:

http://www.geoffschultz.org/200
_Sailing/VE_Los_Roques/imagepages/image2.htm

I've also had a fair amount of work done in Fronteras, Guatemala which
is on the Rio Dulce. There are 2 American's (Chris and Pat) there who
run a business named "The Shop" ( http://www.riodulce.org ) who do just
about anything at very reasonable prices and their work is very good.
When they do the work, it's $25/hr, but when the locals who work for
them do the work, it's $3/hr. The locals tend to do lots of the
painting and varnishing work and do a very good job. I can strongly
recommend them. They send regular progress reports and attach digital
photos of their progress.

The biggest problem in having work done in these places is getting parts
and supplies into them. Things just aren't readibly available. Plus
when you bring things into Guatemala you pay a 30% duty tax. If you
know what you're going to need, you can bring it with you, but if you
forgot something...The closest real place to buy supplies is in
Guatemala City, which is 4+ hours away. The Shop does have someone who
buys things for them there and places them on a bus.

For this exact reason I moved BlueJacket to Ft. Lauderdale this past
spring to do major work on the boat. I was installing a new generator,
wind generator, different davits, solar panels, a hard dodger,
electronics, etc, etc and I knew that trying to get this done down there
would be next to impossible. Plus I was doing a lot of the work myself.
As it was the car could almost drive itself to the marine stores and
Home Depot.

As is almost always the case, there are plusses and minuses to
everything. If you're going to have work done in far away places, then
you have to absorb the transportation costs too. Best of luck making
your decisions!

-- Geoff

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

I will point out that I had great success using Stem to Stern Yacht Care in
Ft. Lauderdale. Erik Schneider, who runs the business, is the son of a
fellow cruiser. Erik is a certified marine mechanic and electrician and I
got a solid hours work for about 2/3rds of the going price. He did great
work and everyone that I know who's used his services since then feels the
same. He showed up when he said that he would, and would even call if he
was running late! WOW! Erik's number is 954-465-5780.

Note that I have absolutely no involvement with Erik other than being a
satisfied customer and would like to see him succeed. I'm a firm believer
in supporting firms that do a good job and bashing those who don't.

-- Geoff

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

I will point out that I had great success using Stem to Stern Yacht Care in
Ft. Lauderdale. Erik Schneider, who runs the business, is the son of a
fellow cruiser. Erik is a certified marine mechanic and electrician and I
got a solid hours work for about 2/3rds of the going price. He did great
work and everyone that I know who's used his services since then feels the
same. He showed up when he said that he would, and would even call if he
was running late! WOW! Erik's number is 954-465-5780.

Note that I have absolutely no involvement with Erik other than being a
satisfied customer and would like to see him succeed. I'm a firm believer
in supporting firms that do a good job and bashing those who don't.

-- Geoff

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull-
2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull-
2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

You guys need to shop around. At Riverside Marina in Ft Pierce Florida, A
boat owner had his Hallberg-Rasse painted for $500. He did the prep and
paid for the awlgrip and materials. Paint job was beautiful...prep work was
marginal, but the owner loved it.
http://www.riversidemarinafortpierce.com/ I did my own job and it cost me
my time and material. Less than a thousand dollars
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm

--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull-
2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

You guys need to shop around. At Riverside Marina in Ft Pierce Florida, A
boat owner had his Hallberg-Rasse painted for $500. He did the prep and
paid for the awlgrip and materials. Paint job was beautiful...prep work was
marginal, but the owner loved it.
http://www.riversidemarinafortpierce.com/ I did my own job and it cost me
my time and material. Less than a thousand dollars
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm

--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull-
2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

90% of the cost is labor and 90% of the labor is prep work. Not
surprising he got someone to shoot it for $500. That is only a day's
work. Also not surprising that the prep work was marginal.

Looks like you did a pretty good job. How much time did it take? How
much do you figure your time was worth? How much was the yard rent
while you did it? Not to mention the cost of sandpaper, primers
thinners, reducers rags, brushes, rollers and of course paint?

Bruce wrote:
You guys need to shop around. At Riverside Marina in Ft Pierce Florida, A
boat owner had his Hallberg-Rasse painted for $500. He did the prep and
paid for the awlgrip and materials. Paint job was beautiful...prep work was
marginal, but the owner loved it.
http://www.riversidemarinafortpierce.com/ I did my own job and it cost me
my time and material. Less than a thousand dollars
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm

--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...

Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull-
2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:


Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron






--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

90% of the cost is labor and 90% of the labor is prep work. Not
surprising he got someone to shoot it for $500. That is only a day's
work. Also not surprising that the prep work was marginal.

Looks like you did a pretty good job. How much time did it take? How
much do you figure your time was worth? How much was the yard rent
while you did it? Not to mention the cost of sandpaper, primers
thinners, reducers rags, brushes, rollers and of course paint?

Bruce wrote:
You guys need to shop around. At Riverside Marina in Ft Pierce Florida, A
boat owner had his Hallberg-Rasse painted for $500. He did the prep and
paid for the awlgrip and materials. Paint job was beautiful...prep work was
marginal, but the owner loved it.
http://www.riversidemarinafortpierce.com/ I did my own job and it cost me
my time and material. Less than a thousand dollars
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm

--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...

Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull-
2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:


Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron






--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

I had 3 coats of Royal Blue and 2 coats of clear coat. For $500 what
did your friend get?

-- Geoff

"Bruce" wrote in
:

You guys need to shop around. At Riverside Marina in Ft Pierce
Florida, A boat owner had his Hallberg-Rasse painted for $500. He did
the prep and paid for the awlgrip and materials. Paint job was
beautiful...prep work was marginal, but the owner loved it.
http://www.riversidemarinafortpierce.com/ I did my own job and it
cost me my time and material. Less than a thousand dollars
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm

--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New
England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in
news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull- 2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

I had 3 coats of Royal Blue and 2 coats of clear coat. For $500 what
did your friend get?

-- Geoff

"Bruce" wrote in
:

You guys need to shop around. At Riverside Marina in Ft Pierce
Florida, A boat owner had his Hallberg-Rasse painted for $500. He did
the prep and paid for the awlgrip and materials. Paint job was
beautiful...prep work was marginal, but the owner loved it.
http://www.riversidemarinafortpierce.com/ I did my own job and it
cost me my time and material. Less than a thousand dollars
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm

--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
Easily double that. I believe that I had been quoted $14K in New
England.

-- Geoff

(Ron Thornton) wrote in
news:849-3FBA36C9-228@storefull- 2176.public.lawson.webtv.net:

Geoff,
Do you have an idea what that $6k paint job would have cost in Ft.
Lauderdale?

Regards, Ron

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

It was a 45' and the painter put on three coats of Awlgrip. Great gloss, no
runs, little orange peel, few bugs. At 5', looks good.:)

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

It was a 45' and the painter put on three coats of Awlgrip. Great gloss, no
runs, little orange peel, few bugs. At 5', looks good.:)

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

So for $500 the guy sprayed 3 coats of Awlgrip. Wow, sounds like he works
for Maaco!

-- Geoff

"Bruce" wrote in
:

It was a 45' and the painter put on three coats of Awlgrip. Great
gloss, no runs, little orange peel, few bugs. At 5', looks good.:)

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

So for $500 the guy sprayed 3 coats of Awlgrip. Wow, sounds like he works
for Maaco!

-- Geoff

"Bruce" wrote in
:

It was a 45' and the painter put on three coats of Awlgrip. Great
gloss, no runs, little orange peel, few bugs. At 5', looks good.:)

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:32:26 GMT, "Geoffrey W. Schultz"
wrote:

So for $500 the guy sprayed 3 coats of Awlgrip. Wow, sounds like he works
for Maaco!
===========================================

The going rate at Maaco is closer to $1200 if you need any significant
dent removal (and that's the usual reason for being there). I tried
to get them to spray one of our cars with Awlgrip but they said they
didn't have the right safety gear. They actually do a half way decent
job for the price although no one will confuse it with a new Toyota
quality paint job, or a new Hinckley either to keep this on topic.

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:32:26 GMT, "Geoffrey W. Schultz"
wrote:

So for $500 the guy sprayed 3 coats of Awlgrip. Wow, sounds like he works
for Maaco!
===========================================

The going rate at Maaco is closer to $1200 if you need any significant
dent removal (and that's the usual reason for being there). I tried
to get them to spray one of our cars with Awlgrip but they said they
didn't have the right safety gear. They actually do a half way decent
job for the price although no one will confuse it with a new Toyota
quality paint job, or a new Hinckley either to keep this on topic.

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

What kind of paint did they use on your boat. When I was there, they had a
fantastic painter and used Sikens paint. They did beautiful work...much
better than Trinadad. Why did you put on a clear coat?

We are talking about the do it yourself crowd here. For $500 he got his
boat sprayed. When you think about it, that is a lot of money for 3 hours
work but then again he came with paint gun, pressure pot and aircompressor.
The amount of money you pay for a paint job is totally dependent on the
talent of the prep guys. The pickier you get the higher the price because
the last thing you want to do is use high dollar paint as a primer. Another
point is not to get to wrapped up in the hull paint job. I don't want to
think about the $6000 I invested in my paint job when a local rams you boat
with his wooden launch as he trys to sell you undersized reef fish. He
doesn't know you invested that kind of money and to him, a paint job is red
and yellow house paint and a brush.

When I was selecting a paint, I elected to buy a product based on the
properties of the paint. The Eclipse I put on my boat is more elastic and
resist chipping much better than Awlgrip. It also has much better chemical
resistant properties. My second choice would be Sikens because the damage
caused by the boat boy can be repaired. Eclipse and Awlgrip can't
--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I had 3 coats of Royal Blue and 2 coats of clear coat. For $500 what
did your friend get?

-- Geoff

Trinidad, Venezuela, and other boat-work stories
 

What kind of paint did they use on your boat. When I was there, they had a
fantastic painter and used Sikens paint. They did beautiful work...much
better than Trinadad. Why did you put on a clear coat?

We are talking about the do it yourself crowd here. For $500 he got his
boat sprayed. When you think about it, that is a lot of money for 3 hours
work but then again he came with paint gun, pressure pot and aircompressor.
The amount of money you pay for a paint job is totally dependent on the
talent of the prep guys. The pickier you get the higher the price because
the last thing you want to do is use high dollar paint as a primer. Another
point is not to get to wrapped up in the hull paint job. I don't want to
think about the $6000 I invested in my paint job when a local rams you boat
with his wooden launch as he trys to sell you undersized reef fish. He
doesn't know you invested that kind of money and to him, a paint job is red
and yellow house paint and a brush.

When I was selecting a paint, I elected to buy a product based on the
properties of the paint. The Eclipse I put on my boat is more elastic and
resist chipping much better than Awlgrip. It also has much better chemical
resistant properties. My second choice would be Sikens because the damage
caused by the boat boy can be repaired. Eclipse and Awlgrip can't
--
See how our Endeavour is progressing at
www.cruisinglife.net/horizonproject.htm
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message
4.17...
I had 3 coats of Royal Blue and 2 coats of clear coat. For $500 what
did your friend get?

-- Geoff