AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat

I just bought 2 AGM 110AH leisure batteries

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...0641&rd=1&rd=1

They just got here and they are both completely flat,

The dealer said that was normal and i should trickle charge them for
24 hours,

He said they had been on the shelf for 8 months,

Shouldnt he have been charging them during that time ?
Shouldnt they be kept in storage at 50 per cent charge ?

Any feedback greatly appreciated.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

"navti" wrote in message
oups.com...
AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat

I just bought 2 AGM 110AH leisure batteries

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...0641&rd=1&rd=1

They just got here and they are both completely flat,

The dealer said that was normal and i should trickle charge them for
24 hours,

He said they had been on the shelf for 8 months,

Shouldnt he have been charging them during that time ?
Shouldnt they be kept in storage at 50 per cent charge ?

Any feedback greatly appreciated.



You might be able to find information he

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ_Index.htm


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

navti wrote in news:1179938775.316509.214520
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Any feedback greatly appreciated.



Toast. They are full of lead sulphate where the plates USED to be. No
amount of wishing or charging are going to make them what you paid for.

Simply return them to the shyster you bought them from and go BUY NEW
BATTERIES...preferrably REAL lead-acid, deep cycle WETCELL batteries.

There is no such thing as a "discharged" lead-acid battery. When they
arrive in that condition they are "DEAD" lead-acid batteries that cannot
be recovered. If you do get some charge into them, the stable lead
sulphate crystals, in this case firmly held against the plates by the
damned gauze so they cannot precipitate away from the plates, will
consume what little acid in the damned guaze that has not been converted
to lead sulphate (lead + H2SO4 = lead sulphate).

The ONLY reason you can recharge a lead-acid battery is because the lead
sulphate IONS have not joined into lead sulphate and crystalized. In
ionic state, electronic force can be applied to make these Ions break
apart and replate the plates. Your plates, already eaten away into lead
sulphate crystals, a very stable crystal that cannot be recovered by
charging, no matter how expensive a charger you buy, have consumed the
majority of their acid load (which is what makes a lead-acid battery
"dead", the lack of acid in solution).

So.....in short......YOU GOT SCREWED WITH SOME OLD BATTERIES SOMEONE
DUMPED.

If he won't rebate your money, be SURE to report his ass to Ebay and vent
your anger on him, publically, on THIS newsgroup and other forums.

Larry
--
Pay no attention to those posters telling you you can just charge
them.....You can't.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 23, 10:01 pm, Larry wrote:
navti wrote in news:1179938775.316509.214520
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Any feedback greatly appreciated.

Toast. They are full of lead sulphate where the plates USED to be. No
amount of wishing or charging are going to make them what you paid for.

Simply return them to the shyster you bought them from and go BUY NEW
BATTERIES...preferrably REAL lead-acid, deep cycle WETCELL batteries.

There is no such thing as a "discharged" lead-acid battery. When they
arrive in that condition they are "DEAD" lead-acid batteries that cannot
be recovered. If you do get some charge into them, the stable lead
sulphate crystals, in this case firmly held against the plates by the
damned gauze so they cannot precipitate away from the plates, will
consume what little acid in the damned guaze that has not been converted
to lead sulphate (lead + H2SO4 = lead sulphate).

The ONLY reason you can recharge a lead-acid battery is because the lead
sulphate IONS have not joined into lead sulphate and crystalized. In
ionic state, electronic force can be applied to make these Ions break
apart and replate the plates. Your plates, already eaten away into lead
sulphate crystals, a very stable crystal that cannot be recovered by
charging, no matter how expensive a charger you buy, have consumed the
majority of their acid load (which is what makes a lead-acid battery
"dead", the lack of acid in solution).

So.....in short......YOU GOT SCREWED WITH SOME OLD BATTERIES SOMEONE
DUMPED.

If he won't rebate your money, be SURE to report his ass to Ebay and vent
your anger on him, publically, on THIS newsgroup and other forums.

Larry
--
Pay no attention to those posters telling you you can just charge
them.....You can't.

whats the minimum voltage you would expect on a new battery ?

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

navti wrote in news:1179958931.889112.201180
@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

whats the minimum voltage you would expect on a new battery ?



Over 12.5

Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
navti wrote in news:1179958931.889112.201180
@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

whats the minimum voltage you would expect on a new battery ?



Over 12.5

Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

Navti, don't listen to Larry. He's a known blowhard extremist. Sometimes
he's right but most of the time he's off the mark. He just tends to go
to extremes.

The best way to check whether or not a battery is any good is to charge
it up for a day or so on a good quality three-stage charger that can
give that final float charge. Then you need to check it with a volt
meter but under a load such as a one or two amp bulb.

It should show over 12 volts. If it continues to show over 12 volts for
about fifteen or twenty minutes then it's probably in decent shape.
Larry apparently doesn't have a clue about testing batteries under a
load.

Wilbur Hubbard

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

Larry wrote in news:Xns9939C87A94F33noonehomecom@
208.49.80.253:

whats the minimum voltage you would expect on a new battery ?



Over 12.5



Let me rephrase that, after thinking it over. The voltage on all 6 cells
of a lead-acid battery that has "some acid" in it is around 2V/cell. It
means NOTHING, except that all 6 cells have some lead and some acid in
it.

Voltage, in lead acid batteries, isn't important. SPECIFIC GRAVITY is.
Now, in a gelcell or AGM battery, there's no way to measure the condition
of the acid that puts the POW in POWer. This is precisely why I don't
like them. There's no way of telling what the chemical condition of an
AGM battery is unless you do a load test over hours to find out when dead
is dead. I'm kind of attached to my trusty TEMPERATURE COMPENSATED
hydrometer, myself, the ONLY way to tell what the condition of a wetcell
is. Why??

When a lead-acid battery is new, the new electrolyte specific gravity, an
indication of the amount of acid, knowing the quantity of electrolyte and
plate area, is around 1.260 to 1.270. (Take some electrolyte out of the
dry cell charger container and measure it with a hydrometer.) The design
of the cell is that a certain quantity of acid is available that will
produce the maximum electrons (AH capacity), without the acid eating the
lead to the point it has unrecoverable holes in it that cannot be
replated/recharged. The acid is converted to lead sulphate first. This
is measured by measuring the specific gravity of the liquid electrolyte.

Ok, a new battery is loaded with electrolyte and just sits there. From
that point on, impurities in the plates, mainly iron, form little shorted
batteries on the surface of the plates...lead-iron-acid. This eats a
tiny spot on the plate...if enough impurities exist, you not the specific
gravity of the worst offender drops below 1.26-1.27 further than the
others. They all drop a little as there are no pure lead plates,
especially at these prices and profit margins. It's ok to recharge a new
battery to restore the plating, raising the gravity back up to 1.27 as we
recover the acid.

"Dead cell" isn't dead. It has just run out of RECOVERABLE acid. The
cells in this "dead" AGM battery are in this condition if the cell has
been discharged over a week or two because the acid has been
unrecoverably converted to stable salts, like lead sulphate crystals.
You'll get the gravity (you can't measure in AGM) to rise some....but not
back to 1.27 because before that happens, we've run out of ionic lead
sulphate that electrical current can split to lead and H2SO4. As there's
not enough SO4 to use, charging the hell out of it only results in
"gassing", splitting the H2O in the electrolyte into H2, which bonds into
hydrogen gas if you do it hard enough, and rises out through the cell's
vent....the electrolyte drops as the water is split. (Your boat cells
been topped off, lately??)...just a thought...(c;

The only way I know of to "test" the condition of gelcell and AGM
CAPACITY is to watch how LONG it takes them before their charging voltage
gets to 14.2 or 14.3V. If the acid has been eaten up and cannot be
recovered, every boaters smiles away because he saw the "meter" rise
QUICKLY to 14.2V "in the GREEN" in 20 minutes at 10A. 10A x .33 hours =
3.3AH, the remaining capacity of these hosed AGM babies all sulphated to
hell. A "good" dead AGM battery won't come up for HOURS at 10A....10A
for 13 hours = 130AH, for instance.....NOT 20 MINUTES. If the dead AGMs
rise quickly, they're HOSED and need replacing.

Larry
--
AGM separator factory in China on Youtube!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jNHR24Gi6A0

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

The only way I know of to "test" the condition of gelcell and AGM
CAPACITY is to watch how LONG it takes them before their charging voltage
gets to 14.2 or 14.3V. If the acid has been eaten up and cannot be
recovered, every boaters smiles away because he saw the "meter" rise
QUICKLY to 14.2V "in the GREEN" in 20 minutes at 10A. 10A x .33 hours =
3.3AH, the remaining capacity of these hosed AGM babies all sulphated to
hell. A "good" dead AGM battery won't come up for HOURS at 10A....10A
for 13 hours = 130AH, for instance.....NOT 20 MINUTES. If the dead AGMs
rise quickly, they're HOSED and need replacing.

i contacted another buyer (a boater) and she said

"Hi, mine had 10.5V and took about 4 hours to charge (less than I
thought) and seems to be holding the charge without problem."

that seems a bit suspicious to me.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

navti wrote in news:1179993861.082602.220690
@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

"Hi, mine had 10.5V and took about 4 hours to charge (less than I
thought) and seems to be holding the charge without problem."

that seems a bit suspicious to me.



"To charge to what?", is the question. To charge to 12AH, instead of 130AH
it was designed for? That'll happen when most of the plates are gone....
(c;

Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 23, 4:46 pm, navti wrote:
AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
I would return them, salesman lied...

If you wanna test them then:
1 charge them up, use boat charger
2 discharge them, w/a constant load [I'm sure you have an ammeter in
your boat?] Just turn on all the lights, note amp drain on meter.
3 multiply Amps times hours of discharge untill batt is 11V [some will
argue about 11V as "batt=dead"] [note: permanent damage if you go
below 10.5V]
4 If less than 110, return to seller!

You can of course repeat this procedure a few times to see if you get
better results each time, if no Major improvement on second go'round,
stop wasting time...

When testing out of boat, I use an automobile headlamp non-halogen,
they're usually 7-12 amps [you need to measure this with an ammeter].

tom
=-==

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

tlindly wrote in news:1180095084.932902.130030
@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

[note: permanent damage if you go
below 10.5V]


It arrived at ZERO! You're absolutely right....this puppy is TOAST! Why
try to charge a "PERMANENTLY DAMAGED" AGM battery?

SEND IT BACK!

Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

Navti, I've read through most of the discussion, skipping over the
bits where Charlie and Wilbur, etc. slag at each other. The advice
from Larry and Dave seems sound to me. If you want a good resource on
batteries for further info look at this: http://www.batteryfaq.org/
last updated May 21, 2007. It sounds like they're pretty much toast
to me though. Sorry.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 25, 4:14 pm, Larry wrote:
tlindly wrote in news:1180095084.932902.130030
@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

[note: permanent damage if you go
below 10.5V]

It arrived at ZERO! You're absolutely right....this puppy is TOAST! Why
try to charge a "PERMANENTLY DAMAGED" AGM battery?

Just to prove it to yourself


SEND IT BACK!

Yep, that's easier...


Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

* navti wrote, On 5/27/2007 8:20 AM:
after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?


Voltage is almost meaningless. That seems a tad low, but it depends
on a number of subtle factors. Also, what was the charge rate? You
mentioned trickle charging, so they might not be fulling charged yet.

You need to charge them with a proper charger, then do some sort of
load test - that's the only thing you can do to determine the health.
Someone suggested a high intensity lamp, you could also use an
inverter with a heating appliance. Or you could take them to a
friendly battery shop or garage that might have a proper load tester.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

Charlie Morgan wrote in news:1svi5392vrnbrj3tjauk4s46v4aaosfhhn@
4ax.com:

On 27 May 2007 05:20:58 -0700, navti wrote:

after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?

Yes. You just wasted 18 hours trying to avoid reality.

CWM

Hee hee....(c;

Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

"navti" wrote in message
ps.com...
after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?


Sounds like things are looking up. I'd try to get ahold of a good
battery charger of the three-stage variety and put a good float charge
on them (the last stage). Then do a load test to check capacity. You
just might be OK in spite of what all the ignorant,
self-appointed-expert naysayer's ranting raving. I hope it works out for
you. If so please keep in touch and let us know so the know-it-alls can
get slapped around a little bit more...

Wilbur Hubbard

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 27, 9:20 am, navti wrote:
after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?

Do you have any idea at what rate you are charging? I don't remember
you mentioning if your charger puts out 2 amps or 10 or 20 or what.
Did you take this voltage measurement with the charger connected and
charging? Or had you disconnected the charger first? Did you put a
small load on the battery for a short time after charging to take off
the surface charge before testing the voltage?

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 28, 11:52 pm, "Ken Heaton, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia"
wrote:
On May 27, 9:20 am, navti wrote:

after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?

Do you have any idea at what rate you are charging? I don't remember
you mentioning if your charger puts out 2 amps or 10 or 20 or what.
Did you take this voltage measurement with the charger connected and
charging? Or had you disconnected the charger first? Did you put a
small load on the battery for a short time after charging to take off
the surface charge before testing the voltage?

I think I was charging at 7 or 8 amps. I am going to do some more
charging today. My charger can put out 10 or 20 amps.
I charged at 10 but had other loads on the generator (yes i charged
with a generator because thats how i will be using them).
I took the reading after 24 hours of settling,
THats a very good tip regarding the surface charge,
I will try that after my next charge,

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 27, 12:20 pm, navti wrote:
after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?

Is that;
1] 12,54 volts with charger still attached and charging?
2] 12,54 volts with the battery connected to nothing but a digital
Volt meter?
3] 12,54 volts with the battery now "running" 3-15 amps [whatever
your normal boat's usage is]?

If 1, you definitely have a bad cell [or your charger is broken].
Should be 13.6-14.4 [14.4 at the start {batt. dead} to 13.6 trickle
charging the fully charged batt.] unless you have a 'smart charger' or
reconditioner
If 2, This is totally meaningless data, all that most people ever know
of batteries, and how battery salesmen make their fortunes...[this is
"surface charge" you might have heard of...]. In a liquid battery,
this should stay at 13.6 for quite some time after removing the
charger [AGM's, with their inherently defective chemical nature
pointed out so eloquently by {I believe} Larry earlier, will usually
show something less depending {I reckon} on their quality], But even a
battery with a known dead cell can show this phantom voltage, so pay
it no heed!!!
If 3, looks promising. You still have to do the discharge test [run
10 amps for 11 hours, or 2 amps for 55 hours] to know if 110aH battery
is "good"

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 29, 8:38 am, tlindly wrote:
On May 27, 12:20 pm, navti wrote:

after 18 hours if charging they are at 12,54 volts,

any thoughts ?

Is that;
1] 12,54 volts with charger still attached and charging?
2] 12,54 volts with the battery connected to nothing but a digital
Volt meter?
3] 12,54 volts with the battery now "running" 3-15 amps [whatever
your normal boat's usage is]?

If 1, you definitely have a bad cell [or your charger is broken].
Should be 13.6-14.4 [14.4 at the start {batt. dead} to 13.6 trickle
charging the fully charged batt.] unless you have a 'smart charger' or
reconditioner
If 2, This is totally meaningless data, all that most people ever know
of batteries, and how battery salesmen make their fortunes...[this is
"surface charge" you might have heard of...]. In a liquid battery,
this should stay at 13.6 for quite some time after removing the
charger [AGM's, with their inherently defective chemical nature
pointed out so eloquently by {I believe} Larry earlier, will usually
show something less depending {I reckon} on their quality], But even a
battery with a known dead cell can show this phantom voltage, so pay
it no heed!!!
If 3, looks promising. You still have to do the discharge test [run
10 amps for 11 hours, or 2 amps for 55 hours] to know if 110aH battery
is "good"

2 at present. I will try 3 and get back to you,.
ps
its not a boat its a camper-van

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

tlindly wrote in news:1180424314.345874.99050
@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

show something less depending {I reckon} on their quality]

I love the "quality" hype. One plate is lead. One plate is lead
dioxide. The electrolyte is gauze soaked with a dilute solution of
H2SO4. The quality is in the label and plastic case.

Torn apart, and I have torn them apart, I don't see any quality inside.
You gotta go to a "quality" battery factory to believe it. Exide makes
"quality" batteries. Their plant was in Sumter, SC. It wasn't like a
laboratory, I can tell you. It's a dirty, nasty, smelly business making
batteries. You wouldn't wanna work there....(c; None of them are made
in a laboratory just for you.

A lead-acid battery "should stay at 13.6 for quite some time" is true. A
long time as it's dependent on chemistry. But, because they all are
built as cheaply as is humanly possible, no matter how good the quality
on the label is, they have impurities, notably iron, in them that self
discharge and eat areas of the plates. This doesn't harm the plates, but
consumes, irrecoverably, the acid...which is what makes a battery go
"dead". This happens to "new" batteries in the first 6 months, until the
impurities have been eaten away. Every month for the first 6 months, the
specific gravity of each cell should be measured, tracked and adjusted
back, after the battery has been fully, SLOWLY recharged, to 1.270
specific gravity, replacing the acid "local action" has eaten away.

Back in the diesel submarine days, Charleston Naval Shipyard had a
massive battery shop to restore and rebuild the boats' 6,250AH lead-acid
cells, that were about as tall as a man and 5' x 4' dimensions. The
batteries were made to drain, cut open and remove the plates/separator
structure, clean out and replace the core structure. It was something to
witness close up. The acid was purified and recycled, not dumped in the
river as some thought. They had a chemical plant to do just that. Once
rebuilt, the batteries were carefully fueled with purified acid, left to
"perk" a week, then taken to a massive gallery that was the shipyard's
battery charger room to be cycled and tested. The battery was cycled
from 1.270 to 1.180 through huge resistors three times to soften the
plates. Then, after a good recharging at 600A for 14 hours with a
thermometer in each cell of the gallery, load tested for AH capacity,
further exercising the new plates. Certified cells were then recharged
and gravity-adjusted back to 1.270 before being loaded onto many railroad
cars back to the boats in the drydocks. If you needed hydrogen to fill
your Hindenberg, it was vented out the top of the charging building,
along with GigaBTus of heat by massive fan arrays to prevent explosions.
They still had some impressive "accidents" over the years. An old friend
of mine worked in there for 35 years before retiring from supervision.
He taught me more about batteries than anyone else...lead-acid batteries.

One cool spectacle was that before the old plates could be sent off to
the salvage yard, to prevent salvage yard fires, a huge iron bar was
clamped across the terminals of the cell and left a day. This bar was
about 2" in diameter and glowed BLOOD RED for many, many hours....with
only the electrolyte that hadn't drained out of the separators laying
sideways on a pallet! It eventually stopped and the plates sent off to
salvage...to be recycled by the lead smelters back into battery beasts to
drive the fleet.

Larry
--
I had a Volkswagen Kombi bus camper. Under its back seat was a custom
built deep cycle 8D that filled the compartment, built in that battery
shop by my friend. Sometimes, the charging current from the little
Volkswagen's little, old fashioned, DC generator, dropped almost to 20A!
You could camp all weekend without charging, leaving all the lights on
like a beacon in the night way past midnight, to the amazement of the
tent campers armed with only flashlights....(c; I think I could have
driven the bus home on the starter if the engine failed to start...

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

navti wrote in news:1180442689.967642.246260
@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

its not a boat its a camper-van



GEEZ, don't tell 'em that! They think yachts are more special than mere
RVs...(c;

One waterfront property owner called the marina "That Floating Trailer
Park" and got 'em all excited in Beaufort, SC....(c;

Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

In article ,
Larry wrote:

tlindly wrote in news:1180424314.345874.99050
@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

show something less depending {I reckon} on their quality]

I love the "quality" hype. One plate is lead. One plate is lead
dioxide. The electrolyte is gauze soaked with a dilute solution of
H2SO4. The quality is in the label and plastic case.

Torn apart, and I have torn them apart, I don't see any quality inside.
You gotta go to a "quality" battery factory to believe it. Exide makes
"quality" batteries. Their plant was in Sumter, SC. It wasn't like a
laboratory, I can tell you. It's a dirty, nasty, smelly business making
batteries. You wouldn't wanna work there....(c; None of them are made
in a laboratory just for you.

snip

This reminds me of an article in a 1950's 'Practical Motorist' regarding
resuscitating old batteries.

It showed diagrammes of the old battery with the bottom edge of the
plates eaten away (before). Their article explained that you should cut
off the top of the battery and reverse these plates (after), as the
electrolysis worked at the bottom and reversing the plates doubled the
life...

They also had an article about how to build a sidecar out of an old
greenhouse..

:-)

Molesworth

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

"Molesworth" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry wrote:

tlindly wrote in news:1180424314.345874.99050
@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

show something less depending {I reckon} on their quality]

I love the "quality" hype. One plate is lead. One plate is lead
dioxide. The electrolyte is gauze soaked with a dilute solution of
H2SO4. The quality is in the label and plastic case.

Torn apart, and I have torn them apart, I don't see any quality
inside.
You gotta go to a "quality" battery factory to believe it. Exide
makes
"quality" batteries. Their plant was in Sumter, SC. It wasn't like
a
laboratory, I can tell you. It's a dirty, nasty, smelly business
making
batteries. You wouldn't wanna work there....(c; None of them are
made
in a laboratory just for you.

snip

This reminds me of an article in a 1950's 'Practical Motorist'
regarding
resuscitating old batteries.

It showed diagrammes of the old battery with the bottom edge of the
plates eaten away (before). Their article explained that you should
cut
off the top of the battery and reverse these plates (after), as the
electrolysis worked at the bottom and reversing the plates doubled the
life...

They also had an article about how to build a sidecar out of an old
greenhouse..

:-)

Molesworth

Jay Leno has a couple of old electric cars in his garage. There was an
article in Popular Mechanics a month or so ago about his Baker electric
that had batteries that were re-buildable. (alkaline batteries???) Said
they have lead plates and use acid??There was a picture of him holding
one and it looked about the same size and shape as a 12volt starting
battery size 27. It said they could be rebuilt indefinitely which is
good since they were about a hundred years old already.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...e/4215940.html

Wilbur Hubbard

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in news:ew%
:

Jay Leno has a couple of old electric cars in his garage. There was an
article in Popular Mechanics a month or so ago about his Baker electric
that had batteries that were re-buildable. (alkaline batteries???) Said
they have lead plates and use acid??There was a picture of him holding
one and it looked about the same size and shape as a 12volt starting
battery size 27. It said they could be rebuilt indefinitely which is
good since they were about a hundred years old already.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...e/4215940.html

Wilbur Hubbard



Those batteries are Nickel-Iron "Edison" cells, like those used in older
fork lift trucks. They don't need rebuilding, almost ever. I have a set
of them that makes 14VDC for emergency power on my ham station. They
only require distilled water, which they do consume naturally with
charging. My cells came out of the Holiday Inn in Orangeburg, SC, in
1973. The date on them is 1958 when the Holiday Inn bought them for
backup power supply for their operator plugged internal telephone system.
When I got them, that system was scrapped for an automatic Bell$outh
exchange. The innkeeper was a ham radio friend of mine.

The cells are like NiCd or Ni-Mh...only 1.2V/cell. I have 12 cells in
series. They are not very efficient batteries, as you can read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron_battery
Waldemar Jungner, a Swede, invented them, but didn't produce them. As
with lots of other devices, Thomas Edison stole the design and called it
his, producing them in 1903. His interest, of course, was to put them in
every home to power the house with Edison's biggest mistake, DC power.
Tesla put an end to that nonsense at Niagara Falls, powering Rochester
and Buffalo with multiphase AC that's in your house today with his
flourescent and vapor arc lamps.

Reliability in constant use, which just kills lead-acid batteries as you
all know, is the reason for NiFe's use in high use forklifts until the
government bureaucrats forced Exide, who bought Edison's company and
patents, out of the nickel battery business in 1972. They made them in
Sumter, SC, where I lived, but made the stupid mistake of polluting the
ground with Nickel, ruining the ground water to peoples' wells for miles
and miles around the plant. Exide paid dearly in court, to the lawyers,
of course, not the well owners who had to fend for themselves with a
pittance. Only China produces Nickel batteries now, unconcerned with
pollution, of course.

You don't want them on your boat. Only problem with that use is you MUST
be able to water them, frequently. The electrolyte is potassium
hydroxide, a base not an acid. Unlike lead sulphate, which precipitates
and consumes lead batteries, the ions in a NiFe battery are fully
recoverable, even years after being left for dead. My cells were all
dead when I got them. Two required more potassium hydroxide to bring
them back to life and balance their odd specific gravity. You also
cannot confine them. The caps are explosion proof filtered vents on
mine. They gas something awful all the time the charger is on them...not
good in a boat. I leave them on a wooden pallet under my house, outside.
They are so heavy, I doubt anyone will just haul them away. They'd make
great ballast...(c; My cells weigh about 300# EACH and are 850AH. I run
a float charger I built for them in the 1970's on them, constantly,
because they leak a lot, self discharging in a month or two.

They are super rugged. You cannot overcharge them! If you charge too
hard or too long or overvoltage, they simply gas off your water and turn
your cells into a hydrogen generator. WHATEVER you do DO NOT SHORT THEM!
They will simply vaporize #0 welding cable in a flash! They have an
amazing current producing capability and very low internal
resistance...as long as they are not cold, not an issue in SC.

Noone makes them, any more, because of the pollution problem of
manufacturing and EXPENSE. AGM batteries would look really cheap next to
a new NiFe bank. Nickel is amazingly expensive in microdollarettes. You
need LOTS of Nickel in them. The other thing is our throw-away
mentality. We can't see beyond the end of our noses to any long-term
investments like having a set of batteries you'd move from place to
place, not needing to replace them....maybe ever. Long term, their price
point is cheaper than lead, but it wouldn't sell.

Larry
--
Many hams here are already waiting for me to kick the bucket so they can
take my set home.....(c;

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

Interesting insight. Thanks.

Wilbur Hubbard


"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in news:ew%
:

Jay Leno has a couple of old electric cars in his garage. There was
an
article in Popular Mechanics a month or so ago about his Baker
electric
that had batteries that were re-buildable. (alkaline batteries???)
Said
they have lead plates and use acid??There was a picture of him
holding
one and it looked about the same size and shape as a 12volt starting
battery size 27. It said they could be rebuilt indefinitely which is
good since they were about a hundred years old already.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...e/4215940.html

Wilbur Hubbard



Those batteries are Nickel-Iron "Edison" cells, like those used in
older
fork lift trucks. They don't need rebuilding, almost ever. I have a
set
of them that makes 14VDC for emergency power on my ham station. They
only require distilled water, which they do consume naturally with
charging. My cells came out of the Holiday Inn in Orangeburg, SC, in
1973. The date on them is 1958 when the Holiday Inn bought them for
backup power supply for their operator plugged internal telephone
system.
When I got them, that system was scrapped for an automatic Bell$outh
exchange. The innkeeper was a ham radio friend of mine.

The cells are like NiCd or Ni-Mh...only 1.2V/cell. I have 12 cells in
series. They are not very efficient batteries, as you can read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron_battery
Waldemar Jungner, a Swede, invented them, but didn't produce them. As
with lots of other devices, Thomas Edison stole the design and called
it
his, producing them in 1903. His interest, of course, was to put them
in
every home to power the house with Edison's biggest mistake, DC power.
Tesla put an end to that nonsense at Niagara Falls, powering Rochester
and Buffalo with multiphase AC that's in your house today with his
flourescent and vapor arc lamps.

Reliability in constant use, which just kills lead-acid batteries as
you
all know, is the reason for NiFe's use in high use forklifts until the
government bureaucrats forced Exide, who bought Edison's company and
patents, out of the nickel battery business in 1972. They made them
in
Sumter, SC, where I lived, but made the stupid mistake of polluting
the
ground with Nickel, ruining the ground water to peoples' wells for
miles
and miles around the plant. Exide paid dearly in court, to the
lawyers,
of course, not the well owners who had to fend for themselves with a
pittance. Only China produces Nickel batteries now, unconcerned with
pollution, of course.

You don't want them on your boat. Only problem with that use is you
MUST
be able to water them, frequently. The electrolyte is potassium
hydroxide, a base not an acid. Unlike lead sulphate, which
precipitates
and consumes lead batteries, the ions in a NiFe battery are fully
recoverable, even years after being left for dead. My cells were all
dead when I got them. Two required more potassium hydroxide to bring
them back to life and balance their odd specific gravity. You also
cannot confine them. The caps are explosion proof filtered vents on
mine. They gas something awful all the time the charger is on
them...not
good in a boat. I leave them on a wooden pallet under my house,
outside.
They are so heavy, I doubt anyone will just haul them away. They'd
make
great ballast...(c; My cells weigh about 300# EACH and are 850AH. I
run
a float charger I built for them in the 1970's on them, constantly,
because they leak a lot, self discharging in a month or two.

They are super rugged. You cannot overcharge them! If you charge too
hard or too long or overvoltage, they simply gas off your water and
turn
your cells into a hydrogen generator. WHATEVER you do DO NOT SHORT
THEM!
They will simply vaporize #0 welding cable in a flash! They have an
amazing current producing capability and very low internal
resistance...as long as they are not cold, not an issue in SC.

Noone makes them, any more, because of the pollution problem of
manufacturing and EXPENSE. AGM batteries would look really cheap next
to
a new NiFe bank. Nickel is amazingly expensive in microdollarettes.
You
need LOTS of Nickel in them. The other thing is our throw-away
mentality. We can't see beyond the end of our noses to any long-term
investments like having a set of batteries you'd move from place to
place, not needing to replace them....maybe ever. Long term, their
price
point is cheaper than lead, but it wouldn't sell.

Larry
--
Many hams here are already waiting for me to kick the bucket so they
can
take my set home.....(c;

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

Both Batteries were charged on full last night for 3 hours .
I put some lights on them for 2-3mins before checking voltage to
remove the surface charge (as advised by Ken Heaton).
They showed 12.69V and are sitting steady. Will leave them to settle
until till tomorrow evening then start using them and try and figure
out their performance over the next few days.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 29, 9:37 pm, Larry wrote:
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in news:ew%
:

Jay Leno has a couple of old electric cars in his garage. There was an
article in Popular Mechanics a month or so ago about his Baker electric
that had batteries that were re-buildable. (alkaline batteries???) Said
they have lead plates and use acid??There was a picture of him holding
one and it looked about the same size and shape as a 12volt starting
battery size 27. It said they could be rebuilt indefinitely which is
good since they were about a hundred years old already.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...e/4215940.html

Wilbur Hubbard

Those batteries are Nickel-Iron "Edison" cells, like those used in older
fork lift trucks. They don't need rebuilding, almost ever. I have a set
of them that makes 14VDC for emergency power on my ham station. They
only require distilled water, which they do consume naturally with
charging. My cells came out of the Holiday Inn in Orangeburg, SC, in
1973. The date on them is 1958 when the Holiday Inn bought them for
backup power supply for their operator plugged internal telephone system.
When I got them, that system was scrapped for an automatic Bell$outh
exchange. The innkeeper was a ham radio friend of mine.

The cells are like NiCd or Ni-Mh...only 1.2V/cell. I have 12 cells in
series. They are not very efficient batteries, as you can read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron_battery
Waldemar Jungner, a Swede, invented them, but didn't produce them. As
with lots of other devices, Thomas Edison stole the design and called it
his, producing them in 1903. His interest, of course, was to put them in
every home to power the house with Edison's biggest mistake, DC power.
Tesla put an end to that nonsense at Niagara Falls, powering Rochester
and Buffalo with multiphase AC that's in your house today with his
flourescent and vapor arc lamps.

Reliability in constant use, which just kills lead-acid batteries as you
all know, is the reason for NiFe's use in high use forklifts until the
government bureaucrats forced Exide, who bought Edison's company and
patents, out of the nickel battery business in 1972. They made them in
Sumter, SC, where I lived, but made the stupid mistake of polluting the
ground with Nickel, ruining the ground water to peoples' wells for miles
and miles around the plant. Exide paid dearly in court, to the lawyers,
of course, not the well owners who had to fend for themselves with a
pittance. Only China produces Nickel batteries now, unconcerned with
pollution, of course.

Isn't it ironic folks that the US government will take someone to
court for NIckel leakage yet is

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 30, 7:33 am, navti wrote:
On May 29, 9:37 pm, Larry wrote:

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in news:ew%
:

Jay Leno has a couple of old electric cars in his garage. There was an
article in Popular Mechanics a month or so ago about his Baker electric
that had batteries that were re-buildable. (alkaline batteries???) Said
they have lead plates and use acid??There was a picture of him holding
one and it looked about the same size and shape as a 12volt starting
battery size 27. It said they could be rebuilt indefinitely which is
good since they were about a hundred years old already.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...e/4215940.html

Wilbur Hubbard

Those batteries are Nickel-Iron "Edison" cells, like those used in older
fork lift trucks. They don't need rebuilding, almost ever. I have a set
of them that makes 14VDC for emergency power on my ham station. They
only require distilled water, which they do consume naturally with
charging. My cells came out of the Holiday Inn in Orangeburg, SC, in
1973. The date on them is 1958 when the Holiday Inn bought them for
backup power supply for their operator plugged internal telephone system.
When I got them, that system was scrapped for an automatic Bell$outh
exchange. The innkeeper was a ham radio friend of mine.

The cells are like NiCd or Ni-Mh...only 1.2V/cell. I have 12 cells in
series. They are not very efficient batteries, as you can read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron_battery
Waldemar Jungner, a Swede, invented them, but didn't produce them. As
with lots of other devices, Thomas Edison stole the design and called it
his, producing them in 1903. His interest, of course, was to put them in
every home to power the house with Edison's biggest mistake, DC power.
Tesla put an end to that nonsense at Niagara Falls, powering Rochester
and Buffalo with multiphase AC that's in your house today with his
flourescent and vapor arc lamps.

Reliability in constant use, which just kills lead-acid batteries as you
all know, is the reason for NiFe's use in high use forklifts until the
government bureaucrats forced Exide, who bought Edison's company and
patents, out of the nickel battery business in 1972. They made them in
Sumter, SC, where I lived, but made the stupid mistake of polluting the
ground with Nickel, ruining the ground water to peoples' wells for miles
and miles around the plant. Exide paid dearly in court, to the lawyers,
of course, not the well owners who had to fend for themselves with a
pittance. Only China produces Nickel batteries now, unconcerned with
pollution, of course.

Isn't it ironic folks that the US government will take someone to
court for NIckel leakage yet is quite happy to pollute another country
(both Iraq and Afghanistan) with thousands of tons of Depleted Uranium
which is much , much more harmful than NIckel.

DU is so harmful to people and the environment that the US government
often seals it in concrete and buries it deep underground.

It sure as hell does not let it contaminate ground-water.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

* navti wrote, On 5/30/2007 2:29 AM:
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

Both Batteries were charged on full last night for 3 hours .
I put some lights on them for 2-3mins before checking voltage to
remove the surface charge (as advised by Ken Heaton).
They showed 12.69V and are sitting steady. Will leave them to settle
until till tomorrow evening then start using them and try and figure
out their performance over the next few days.

This means they are not totally dead. Only a load test (which could
simply be running a bright light for a while) will tell if the
capacity is seriously diminished. Unfortunately, the capacity could
be well below 50% and they would still behave like yours. With
traditional wet cells, the electrolyte can be sampled, making this a
bit easier. With AGM's you really have to measure how much they can
deliver before the voltage gets too low. Each battery is a bit
different, so there's no formula that says if "10 Amp hours drops the
voltage 0.1V, you have X capacity." You should get guidance from the
factory - they may be able to give a procedure that would be far more
accurate than the guesses you get on this board.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

navti wrote in news:1180506549.946816.47150
@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

They showed 12.69V

Dead cell. 13.6 to 13.8V is "normal" on a fully charged battery....



Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
navti wrote in news:1180506549.946816.47150
@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

They showed 12.69V

Dead cell. 13.6 to 13.8V is "normal" on a fully charged battery....



Larry
--
Grade School Physics Factoid:
A building cannot freefall into its own footprint without
skilled demolition.

If the battery was dead when you got it and you charged it for 3 hours I
would suspect that that it is about 50% charged. 12.69V seems reasonable.
I would suggest you continue charging.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

* Larry wrote, On 5/30/2007 4:50 PM:
navti wrote in news:1180506549.946816.47150
@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

They showed 12.69V

Dead cell. 13.6 to 13.8V is "normal" on a fully charged battery....

This is total nonsense and mis-information. Once the charger is
turned off, and the surface charge is "burned off" the voltage will
drop to around 12.7V, give or take a tenth. This is the norm for
flooded batteries, but there is more variation for gel (which is often
a tad higher) and AGM. The float voltage used for AGMs is usually
rather low, around 13.2, so claiming that it has to be at 13.6 to be
fully charged is nonsense.

Here's a data sheet for Lifeline AGM batteries, one of the major
brands in the USA. You can clearly see the "Open Circuit Charge" for
100% charge is 12.8 Volts.

Note also, that as I mentioned in a previous post, AGMs can be
equalized to restore some lost potency.

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/mch...procedures.php

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 30, 1:22 pm, Jeff wrote:
* navti wrote, On 5/30/2007 2:29 AM: UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

Both Batteries were charged on full last night for 3 hours .
I put some lights on them for 2-3mins before checking voltage to
remove the surface charge (as advised by Ken Heaton).
They showed 12.69V and are sitting steady. Will leave them to settle
until till tomorrow evening then start using them and try and figure
out their performance over the next few days.

This means they are not totally dead. Only a load test (which could
simply be running a bright light for a while) will tell if the
capacity is seriously diminished. Unfortunately, the capacity could
be well below 50% and they would still behave like yours. With
traditional wet cells, the electrolyte can be sampled, making this a
bit easier. With AGM's you really have to measure how much they can
deliver before the voltage gets too low.

Jeff

I am curious as to how the battery capacity can be 50 % diminished and
still deliver 12.6 volts (or thereabouts.

Are the individual cells in the battery wired in series or parallel ?

If I had four 12 volt cells wired in parrallel each with a capacity of
10 amp hours then I would have 40 amp hours at 12 volts,

If one cell went dead then I would have 30 amp hours at 12 volts,

If I had four 3 volt cells wired in series each with a capacity of 10
amp hours then I would have 10 amp hours at 12 volts,

If one cell went dead then I would have 10 amp hours at 9 volts,

How does it go with my battery ? Is it a combination of series and
parallel ?

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

* navti wrote, On 5/31/2007 4:31 AM:

I am curious as to how the battery capacity can be 50 % diminished and
still deliver 12.6 volts (or thereabouts.

Are the individual cells in the battery wired in series or parallel ?

series


If I had four 12 volt cells wired in parrallel each with a capacity of
10 amp hours then I would have 40 amp hours at 12 volts,

yup


If one cell went dead then I would have 30 amp hours at 12 volts,

Actually, in this case the dead cell might kill the whole bank. If
one cell of a parallel setup is shorted, then all are shorted.


If I had four 3 volt cells wired in series each with a capacity of 10
amp hours then I would have 10 amp hours at 12 volts,

yup



If one cell went dead then I would have 10 amp hours at 9 volts,

only if it died "shorted," which is often the case.


How does it go with my battery ? Is it a combination of series and
parallel ?


You have 6 2.1 Volt cells in series. This is the case with all "12
Volt" lead acid batteries. If you had a catastrophic failure of one
cell, the battery is trash. This is most often an internal short,
sometimes its a cracked case. There are some high end batteries that
have replaceable cells, but they are expensive and heavy.

The issue you have is probably simply deep discharge, which can cause
several problems. One is a loss of lead or "shedding" - the lead
comes loose from the substrate that holds it. In a flooded cell, this
tends to fall to the bottom. The battery acts the same but with
diminished capacity, until the debris builds up and shorts the plates.
Most of us have encountered this if we tend to leave the lights on
in the car every now and then - with each episode some of the lead
falls off and after a dozen or so times, its toast. This is
particularly the case in starting batteries, because the the plates
are so thin. Slow shedding is a normal process, which is why a car
battery often dies the month after the warranty expires.

The other common problem is sulphation. During the normal discharge,
the lead and lead oxide plates are converted to lead sulphate.
Charging reverses this. If the cells are left discharged, the
sulphate can harden and resist reverting back. This can sometimes be
reversed by "equalizing" which is charging at a higher rate which
"loosens" the sulphate. The problem with AGMs is that you have to be
careful not to overcharge, since you can't add water. Severe
sulphation creates a thick layer and cannot be reversed.

In both of the situations, the only definitive test is a load test -
it will be difficult to determine the health simply by charging. Each
manufacturer has a different construction and formulation of the
plates, so detailed experience gained in one brand does not
necessarily apply in another. I've been using the same batteries
(Trojan T105) for my house banks for the last dozen years, and I check
the load, voltage, and amp-hours several times a day, so if they're
off by a tenth of a Volt I start to get suspicious. But on a
different boat, the normal reading could be a tad higher or lower.

Frankly, my experience with AGMs is limited to a pair of starting
batteries that have worked flawlessly for several years, including one
severe winter that killed the flooded house bank. But the basic
chemistry and issues are the same. However, AGM's are able to
withstand long periods of inattention. The Optima site, for example,
claims theirs can sit for a year and still start a car. There is
reason to hope that yours have survived, but only a load test will
tell for sure. You may be able to resurrect them with an equalization
cycle, but I would only try that if its impossible to return them.

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

On May 31, 2:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
* navti wrote, On 5/31/2007 4:31 AM:



I am curious as to how the battery capacity can be 50 % diminished and
still deliver 12.6 volts (or thereabouts.

Are the individual cells in the battery wired in series or parallel ?

series



If I had four 12 volt cells wired in parrallel each with a capacity of
10 amp hours then I would have 40 amp hours at 12 volts,

yup



If one cell went dead then I would have 30 amp hours at 12 volts,

Actually, in this case the dead cell might kill the whole bank. If
one cell of a parallel setup is shorted, then all are shorted.



If I had four 3 volt cells wired in series each with a capacity of 10
amp hours then I would have 10 amp hours at 12 volts,

yup



If one cell went dead then I would have 10 amp hours at 9 volts,

only if it died "shorted," which is often the case.



How does it go with my battery ? Is it a combination of series and
parallel ?

You have 6 2.1 Volt cells in series. This is the case with all "12
Volt" lead acid batteries. If you had a catastrophic failure of one
cell, the battery is trash. This is most often an internal short,
sometimes its a cracked case. There are some high end batteries that
have replaceable cells, but they are expensive and heavy.

The issue you have is probably simply deep discharge, which can cause
several problems. One is a loss of lead or "shedding" - the lead
comes loose from the substrate that holds it. In a flooded cell, this
tends to fall to the bottom. The battery acts the same but with
diminished capacity, until the debris builds up and shorts the plates.
Most of us have encountered this if we tend to leave the lights on
in the car every now and then - with each episode some of the lead
falls off and after a dozen or so times, its toast. This is
particularly the case in starting batteries, because the the plates
are so thin. Slow shedding is a normal process, which is why a car
battery often dies the month after the warranty expires.

The other common problem is sulphation. During the normal discharge,
the lead and lead oxide plates are converted to lead sulphate.
Charging reverses this. If the cells are left discharged, the
sulphate can harden and resist reverting back. This can sometimes be
reversed by "equalizing" which is charging at a higher rate which
"loosens" the sulphate. The problem with AGMs is that you have to be
careful not to overcharge, since you can't add water. Severe
sulphation creates a thick layer and cannot be reversed.

In both of the situations, the only definitive test is a load test -
it will be difficult to determine the health simply by charging. Each
manufacturer has a different construction and formulation of the
plates, so detailed experience gained in one brand does not
necessarily apply in another. I've been using the same batteries
(Trojan T105) for my house banks for the last dozen years, and I check
the load, voltage, and amp-hours several times a day, so if they're
off by a tenth of a Volt I start to get suspicious. But on a
different boat, the normal reading could be a tad higher or lower.

Jeff

Lets ASSUME I have a brand new 100 ah battery and its sitting at 12.6
volts.

I run it through a 3A DC lamp for 10 hours = 30ah.

According to my chart 70 per cent charged (30 per cent discharged )
is
12.3 volts,

If they were only 50 amp hour batteries then 30 ah would be a 60 per
cent discharge and my chart shows 40 per cent charged is 12 volts.

Is this the correct methodolgy ?

AGM Leisure battery 110AH arrived flat
 

* navti wrote, On 5/31/2007 4:12 PM:

Lets ASSUME I have a brand new 100 ah battery and its sitting at 12.6
volts.

I run it through a 3A DC lamp for 10 hours = 30ah.

According to my chart 70 per cent charged (30 per cent discharged )
is
12.3 volts,

If they were only 50 amp hour batteries then 30 ah would be a 60 per
cent discharge and my chart shows 40 per cent charged is 12 volts.

Is this the correct methodolgy ?


Yes, this is the way to do it. The problem you have is that there's a
lot of guesswork in the discharge curve. Once you've used a battery
type for a while, it becomes predictable, but the first time through
you don't know if 12.3 volts is 30%, or maybe 20% or 40%. Thus the
first time you have to take it fairly deep to have any confidence.

The good news is that the battery will possibly get a bit stronger in
the near term as its exercised because some of the sulphation is
removed. So if you're able to get 50 Ah out of it and it still over
12 volts, you probably have some useful life left in them. But if
your 30 Ah test takes it under 12V, you have a problem.

One more thing - while under the load the Voltage will show lower, and
then it will jump up a tad when the load is removed. The higher
Voltage is the "Open Circuit" measurement.