Peggie Hall wrote:

Don W wrote:

Right now, I'm "cogitating" (that's a Texas expression) on whether it
would be better to pull the electric head, and install a Sealand
Vacuflush head and vacuum generator while I'm re-doing everything.

Only if you want to spend up to 3x more than you need to have everything
the Vacuflush offers and more.

You haven't said what size your boat is, whether it's power or sail, and
what kind of space is available...your budget...or what part of the
country you're in. I need the answers to all those questions to be able
to advise what (IMO) is the best system for YOUR boat.

Hi Peggie,

The first post states the boat is an Irwin 38
which makes it a 38' sailboat. The boat is 38'
long with a 12' beam, two cabins, and a single
head with a small vanity, toilet, and shower. The
holding tank is currently installed in space
between the back wall of the aft cabin, and the
downward sloping hull. This space is accessible
through the cockpit lockers, and has room for a
sizeable tank if it is the right dimensions.

In

any case, I will put in a larger holding tank.


Well...maybe. Or maybe a Type I MSD. Again, that depends on your
location...whether inland on "no discharge" waters, or in coastal waters
where the discharge of treated waste is legal.

We're on Matagorda Bay on the Texas gulf coast in
a small marina.


An advantage to the Vacuflush system is that I can install the vacuum
generator in the top of my starboard cockpit locker, and let it drain
by gravity into the holding tank.


Nope...the vacuum generator doesn't drain by gravity...it pushes the
waste to its ultimate destination.

Which is just fine with me, as long as it ends up
in the holding tank.


Since the holding tank is vented at the top, this does away with the
need for a vented loop since there would be no way that a siphon could
develop from the thru-hull.


Not true...the holding tank vent has nothing whatever to do whether a
siphon can start from the overboard thru-hull, 'cuz a tank vent can't
break the flow of water in the tank discharge hose.

Actually, it is true, but you probably aren't
thinking of the system being routed the way I
described. The holding tank is above the water
line, and the vent(s) are horizontal. The
Vacuflush vaccum generator goes directly to the
holding tank, and the holding tank is connected to
the at-sea discharge thru-hull. There is no
possible way for a siphon to develop from the
thru-hull back into the head--ergo no need for a
vented loop.

Also, since the vacuum generator effectively "sucks" the line clean
there is an added advantage of not having anything standing in the
sanitation hose--a disadvantage of the present system.


Again...not quite true. The V/flush does suck all the bowl contents all
the way to the vacuum pump, but it also splatters 'em all over the
inside of the hoses on the way to the pump.

True.

I'm thinking that I might use an electric macerating pump to pump the
contents of the holding tank to the thru-hull when emptying at sea,
rather than relying on gravity to do the job. I'm a little concerned
about having the macerator head sitting in raw sewage all of the time.


That would depend on where you put the macerator.

All of this is likely to cost a few boat bucks, so I'd like to be sure
I've thought it through before commiting the money.

Any thoughts or comments you'd like to offer??


There are much better, less expensive ways to do it. I'll be glad to
help you sort out the best ones for your boat and use.

I'll give you a call and talk it over. The main
thing I'm shooting for is a trouble-free head
system that is not easily plugged, and is easily
maintained. Additionally, it should be intuitive
for the landlubbers, because if they mess it up
guess _who_ will be fixing it.

Don W.

KLC Lewis wrote:

If you must have a marine head, LaVac is, indeed, the way to go. If you in a
large no-discharge zone like the Great Lakes, a porta-potti makes more
sense. Some would say even if you're NOT in a no-discharge zone.

Our Catalina 27 came with a porta-potty and it has
been a good way to go on that boat.

We own two Raritan Sanipotties right now, and one
is doing duty on the Irwin right now while I'm
working on the sanitation system. The other is on
the Catalina 27.

I thought seriously about just taking out the
electric toilet and holding tank and putting in
the large Sanipotti. It works just fine while we
are in the marina, because we just walk it up to
the bath house and dump it in the toilet.

However... When we are out at anchor, in a
no-discharge zone, the 8 gallon tank of the large
sani-potti is going to be a problem. I know from
experience how long it takes to fill it up, and I
don't want to have to go find a place to dump it
that often. That's why I'm considering a 42
gallon holding tank, and a toilet setup that is
miserly with water.

Thanks for the thoughts,

Don W.

RW Salnick wrote:


I'd skip the use of the head hose, except as for flexible connections to
hard-mounted items, unless the runs are very short. Instead, plumb with
rigid white PVC pipe - it has an essentially infinite permeation time -
unlike the hose.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

Hi Bob,

I'd love to plumb with PVC pipe, but I've heard
that the flexing of the boat causes it to develop
cracks over time. Is that true?

Don W.

On May 17, 11:38 pm, Don W
wrote:
RW Salnick wrote:
I'd skip the use of the head hose, except as for flexible connections to
hard-mounted items, unless the runs are very short. Instead, plumb with
rigid white PVC pipe - it has an essentially infinite permeation time -
unlike the hose.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

Hi Bob,

I'd love to plumb with PVC pipe, but I've heard
that the flexing of the boat causes it to develop
cracks over time. Is that true?

Don W.

Hi, Don, and group,

I'm not an expert, but I can provide some RW experience.

Most of you know that I had about the most boat flexing one can
experience and still float, after it's over, a few months ago.

Before that time I had installed PVC exhaust plumbing on both heads.
The forward head, which I'd originally thought would be impossible,
turned out to be feasible with lots of joints, and some creative
vocabulary. The aft, which I originally thought would be a piece of
cake, I then thought couldn't be done at all, actually turned out
pretty simple.

However, I learned a bit along the way. As nobody's going to be
grading you on neatness, slop the crap (pardon the expression) out of
the joints with cleaner, and then with the glue, when you're making
the assembly (do it all dry first, of course, and allow for the full
depth of insertion as the glue will act as a lubricant, letting you
seat it fully where it won't go, dry).

I didn't do that in my forward head installation. As a result, I had
two very minor seeps at two joints after the incident (more below).
Those were cured with careful sanding and addition of, first, more
glue preceded by an acetone wipe (to clean and soften the plastic),
and followed by some penetrating epoxy (more flexible than laminating
or general-purpose epoxy) with a thickener added to keep it in place.
As I'm currently on the hard, I shut the thru-hull connection, opened
the anti-siphon valve (like you'd see in a laundry connection), and
poured water into the system until it was full (both toilet and hull
ends of the line), and waited a week. No seeps. The aft didn't leak
anywhere.

So, from that, I get...

First, if you think you're being ridiculous in your application of
cleaner and glue, and follow up each joint with swabs around the
perimeter for good measure, it's unlikely you'll ever have a leak.

Second, if there *is* a very small leak, it can be addressed, if you
can get to it. I'd originally thought I'd have to cut out the
offending joint - but even that's possible to do.

Meanwhile, as an establishment of the bona fides of this process, this
hard pipe stood up to huge hull flexing and pounding (impacts) - more
than you'll ever encounter in normal seagoing life. As seen in my
"Thanksgiving" post, I estimate, based on time and wave interval, that
our hull took not less than 3000 and probably more than 5000 huge
crashes on rock. The flexing our hull provided in her defense is
totally awesome, and for which we're without words to adequately
express how grateful we are that was so. From that I can provide my
own assurances that, done right (joints fully glued) and supported (no
flailing around) that it's unlikely you'll ever have to deal with that
again.

Given the stench of the hose we took out (the good stuff), I'm very
happy to not have to face that thought in this boat's lifetime.
Meanwhile, I have the 15' of AVS96 that I bought to do the forward
head available, now (after the wreck, I'm sure I won't need it),
should anyone want it.

And, finally (you knew I'd get here, eventually, right??), for those
so inclined, my galleries have the gory details on the installations
of both heads' hard pipe, and I can give you the links if you like.
However, in general, I think the forward head (the more complex of the
two) was Feb06 in the refit gallery.

Hope that helps...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.

Skip - a few simple questions -

I'm thinking of putting some pvc in my from the head (lavac) to the
holding tank. What size pipe do you use, and how do you connect it?
Is there a size that you can simply clamp the normal flexible hose around?

On Fri, 18 May 2007 03:38:01 GMT, Don W
wrote:

RW Salnick wrote:


I'd skip the use of the head hose, except as for flexible connections to
hard-mounted items, unless the runs are very short. Instead, plumb with
rigid white PVC pipe - it has an essentially infinite permeation time -
unlike the hose.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

Hi Bob,

I'd love to plumb with PVC pipe, but I've heard
that the flexing of the boat causes it to develop
cracks over time. Is that true?

Have you considered a composting head?
Seems it would save space and cut out all the plumbing
and leaking crap. Not cheap.

Here's somebody who uses one and give a good account of his/her
experience with it.
http://www.sailsarana.com/FAQ.htm#why

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:

Have you considered a composting head?
Seems it would save space and cut out all the plumbing
and leaking crap. Not cheap.

Here's somebody who uses one and give a good account of his/her
experience with it.
http://www.sailsarana.com/FAQ.htm#why

--Vic

Yes, I considered a composting head. The ones
that I'm aware of have significant issues yet to
be overcome in terms of the space and power that
they use.

Don W.

On May 18, 10:32 am, Jeff wrote:
Skip - a few simple questions -

I'm thinking of putting some pvc in my from the head (lavac) to the
holding tank. What size pipe do you use, and how do you connect it?
Is there a size that you can simply clamp the normal flexible hose around?

you use standard Sch40 1 1/2" PVC and fittings. The end to take the
hose can be had in the proper size from SeaLand, who sells a hose they
claim (but which Peggie disagrees with) is superior to their prior
OdorSafePlus, sells PVC end fittings.

However, I just used barbed screw-in (to a pipe thread coupler)
fittings which I ground down to fit properly.

Better yet, I've learned (too late for the forward head) that you can
use a rubber coupling, flush fit, to whatever fitting you're using
(1.5" pipe and the barb described, but with a collar of 1.5" hose,
which makes it identical in size to the PVC). Three clamps - one each
at the ends, and one at the joint. The joint is contained in the
clamp in the middle, making any odor products have nearly an
impossible (I'm saying nearly because I don't have 5 years' experience
to back up my expectation of NO) chance of getting to the rubber
exterior. I've got that setup (flush - pardon the expression - rubber
coupling) at the head and at the through hull on the aft. All that's
to stop any future odor issues...

Hope that Helped...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-
half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats;
messing about in boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter,
that's the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never
get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

* Skip Gundlach wrote, On 5/18/2007 9:45 PM:
On May 18, 10:32 am, Jeff wrote:
Skip - a few simple questions -

I'm thinking of putting some pvc in my from the head (lavac) to the
holding tank. What size pipe do you use, and how do you connect it?
Is there a size that you can simply clamp the normal flexible hose around?

you use standard Sch40 1 1/2" PVC and fittings. The end to take the
hose can be had in the proper size from SeaLand, who sells a hose they
claim (but which Peggie disagrees with) is superior to their prior
OdorSafePlus, sells PVC end fittings.

However, I just used barbed screw-in (to a pipe thread coupler)
fittings which I ground down to fit properly.

Better yet, I've learned (too late for the forward head) that you can
use a rubber coupling, flush fit, to whatever fitting you're using
(1.5" pipe and the barb described, but with a collar of 1.5" hose,
which makes it identical in size to the PVC). Three clamps - one each
at the ends, and one at the joint. The joint is contained in the
clamp in the middle, making any odor products have nearly an
impossible (I'm saying nearly because I don't have 5 years' experience
to back up my expectation of NO) chance of getting to the rubber
exterior. I've got that setup (flush - pardon the expression - rubber
coupling) at the head and at the through hull on the aft. All that's
to stop any future odor issues...

Hope that Helped...

I think so ... thanks