Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed. While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

1) The surveyor said the bubbles in the gelcoat were not visible last spring
and did not show up with sounding, and that maybe there was an electrical
problem at our marina that affected the hull (causing the bubbles to form).
She responded and said not other boats at the marina were affected. Could
this phenomenon occur, or what are other typical causes of bubbles to form
in the gelcoat?

2) Is there any recourse against the surveyor if the bubbles were missed
during the survey. (I believe the surveyor is from the Kingston or
Belleville area)?

Mark (the rail, canopy, & lifeline hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Mark" wrote:

A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed. While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

1) The surveyor said the bubbles in the gelcoat were not visible last spring
and did not show up with sounding, and that maybe there was an electrical

Did the buyer see the bubbles? Were they there during the survey? If
not why not? If the buyer did not see the bubbles, why would the
surveyor have seen them?

problem at our marina that affected the hull (causing the bubbles to form).
She responded and said not other boats at the marina were affected. Could
this phenomenon occur, or what are other typical causes of bubbles to form
in the gelcoat?

2) Is there any recourse against the surveyor if the bubbles were missed
during the survey. (I believe the surveyor is from the Kingston or
Belleville area)?

Mark (the rail, canopy, & lifeline hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

We had bubbles in our gelcoat at the survey - the surveyor pointed
them out to us. Have never seen them since. Bob has concluded that
they were just water bubbles under the paint.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

The buyer nor the surveyor saw the bubbles last spring, so we do not know if
the bubbles have developed since then (or why) or if they were overlooked by
the surveyor. The surveyor was hired to closely inspect the boat for
potential problems that could otherwise be overlooked by the buyer (the
buyer knew she did not know enough about boats to recognize this type of
problem). Now that she is getting more familiar with the details of the
boat (such applying the bottom wax herself), she is seeing more and asking
more. The bubbles might not even be an issue until the "expert" (the
surveyor) re-inspects the boat. The questions I am asking are merely to
help her (and myself) understand if and how bubbles can start to form, or
were they potentially ovelooked (raising the question of the value of
getting a survey done).


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Mark" wrote:

A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed.
While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the
survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

1) The surveyor said the bubbles in the gelcoat were not visible last
spring
and did not show up with sounding, and that maybe there was an electrical

Did the buyer see the bubbles? Were they there during the survey? If
not why not? If the buyer did not see the bubbles, why would the
surveyor have seen them?

problem at our marina that affected the hull (causing the bubbles to
form).
She responded and said not other boats at the marina were affected. Could
this phenomenon occur, or what are other typical causes of bubbles to form
in the gelcoat?

2) Is there any recourse against the surveyor if the bubbles were missed
during the survey. (I believe the surveyor is from the Kingston or
Belleville area)?

Mark (the rail, canopy, & lifeline hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

We had bubbles in our gelcoat at the survey - the surveyor pointed
them out to us. Have never seen them since. Bob has concluded that
they were just water bubbles under the paint.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Mark" wrote
The questions I am asking are merely to help her (and myself) understand
if and how bubbles can start to form, or were they potentially ovelooked
(raising the question of the value of getting a survey done).

When you say bubbles, are you talking about gel-coat blisters, or something
else? There's lots of info online about blistering, much of it conflicting.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

I have not seen the (as she referrs to them) "bubbles" yet myself, but will
ask her to show me this weekend. I have been fortunate not to run into
this problem with my own boat (yet), but as you say, there is lots if info
available online, much of it conflicting. This is part of the reason I
posted to the newsgroups, to get some general guidenace, direction, and
first hand experience from the user's side (versus from the various sales
pitches from mechanics and surveyors).

Any guidance or suggestions (good websites or articles) in the interim would
be much appreciated, and help us prepare to ask the right questions.
Thanks in advance.

Mark

"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message
et...
"Mark" wrote
The questions I am asking are merely to help her (and myself) understand
if and how bubbles can start to form, or were they potentially ovelooked
(raising the question of the value of getting a survey done).

When you say bubbles, are you talking about gel-coat blisters, or
something else? There's lots of info online about blistering, much of it
conflicting.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Mark" wrote in message
...
I have not seen the (as she referrs to them) "bubbles" yet myself, but
will ask her to show me this weekend. I have been fortunate not to
run into this problem with my own boat (yet), but as you say, there is
lots if info available online, much of it conflicting. This is part
of the reason I posted to the newsgroups, to get some general
guidenace, direction, and first hand experience from the user's side
(versus from the various sales pitches from mechanics and surveyors).

Any guidance or suggestions (good websites or articles) in the interim
would be much appreciated, and help us prepare to ask the right
questions. Thanks in advance.

Mark

"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message
et...
"Mark" wrote
The questions I am asking are merely to help her (and myself)
understand if and how bubbles can start to form, or were they
potentially ovelooked (raising the question of the value of getting
a survey done).

When you say bubbles, are you talking about gel-coat blisters, or
something else? There's lots of info online about blistering, much of
it conflicting.

Mark, you're an idiot. Your very first concern seems to be how to stick
it to a surveyor just because the boat developed some small gel coat
blisters around the waterline. If you didn't see them or the surveyor
didn't see them during the time of the survey then it stands to reason
they weren't there. If you need a surveyor to see something you should
be able to see yourself then what good are YOU? All these stupid people
these days getting into boating just disgust me. You morons are lowering
the bar with your whining and your ignorance and your refusal to take
personal responsibility. Go away already. Stay off the water before your
infantile, imbecilic attitude ends up costing you your life or the life
of some innocent who just had the misfortune to be in your way.

You seem to be suggesting the surveyor should have foreseen the
blisters. Give us a break, you stupid ******. Take some freaking
responsibility for once. Quit trying to blame things on somebody else.
Boy, you dim bulb liberals sure are screwing up the entire country
lately. Why don't you people just shut your ignorant pie holes and go
away.

Geez! Some little waterline gelcoat blisters and he acts like it's the
end of the world. Somebody slap some sense into this loser, please.

Wilbur Hubbard

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Mark" wrote
Any guidance or suggestions (good websites or articles) in the interim
would be much appreciated, and help us prepare to ask the right questions.

From what I've seen, it's entirely plausible that some blistering might
develop during a single season after not being there at all in the
pre-season survey.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
...
I have not seen the (as she referrs to them) "bubbles" yet myself, but
will ask her to show me this weekend. I have been fortunate not to
run into this problem with my own boat (yet), but as you say, there is
lots if info available online, much of it conflicting. This is part
of the reason I posted to the newsgroups, to get some general
guidenace, direction, and first hand experience from the user's side
(versus from the various sales pitches from mechanics and surveyors).

Any guidance or suggestions (good websites or articles) in the interim
would be much appreciated, and help us prepare to ask the right
questions. Thanks in advance.

Mark

"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message
et...
"Mark" wrote
The questions I am asking are merely to help her (and myself)
understand if and how bubbles can start to form, or were they
potentially ovelooked (raising the question of the value of getting
a survey done).

When you say bubbles, are you talking about gel-coat blisters, or
something else? There's lots of info online about blistering, much of
it conflicting.

Mark, you're an idiot. Your very first concern seems to be how to stick
it to a surveyor just because the boat developed some small gel coat
blisters around the waterline. If you didn't see them or the surveyor
didn't see them during the time of the survey then it stands to reason
they weren't there.

Before I bought my boat I had it surveyed and the surveyor never
mentioned the condition of my seacocks in his list of problems with the
boat. I called him up and asked him about them and he got very
defensive, especially after my question: Where are they?

He rattled off three locations and after I got off the phone I looked in
those three places, they were not there. I looked around and eventually
located them. The one for the head had the handle off of it, so he
probably didn't test it. The one for the engine water intake was a
rusted ball valve which, when I tried to close it, snapped off in my
hand with hardly any pressure. The third was okay.

Suffice it so say, just because the surveyor and new boat owner don't
know something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Stephen

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

On Thu, 10 May 2007 16:13:01 -0400, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:

From what I've seen, it's entirely plausible that some blistering might
develop during a single season after not being there at all in the
pre-season survey.

Absolutely. It's not uncommon in my experience for somy minor
blisters to form over the winter and then disappear again when the
boat goes in the water. Even if they don't disappear this is hardly a
federal case.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 10 May 2007 16:13:01 -0400, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:

From what I've seen, it's entirely plausible that some blistering might
develop during a single season after not being there at all in the
pre-season survey.

Absolutely. It's not uncommon in my experience for somy minor
blisters to form over the winter and then disappear again when the
boat goes in the water. Even if they don't disappear this is hardly a
federal case.


When you get a survey, you normally sign a paper saying the surveyor
is not responsible for any screwups.
There are a ton of lousy surveyors out there. Be sure and survey your
surveyors before hiring.
Gordon

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

Here's a question: Where did your friend find the surveyor? Was he
recommended by a broker, in particular the seller's broker?


* Mark wrote, On 5/10/2007 8:32 AM:
A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed. While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

1) The surveyor said the bubbles in the gelcoat were not visible last spring
and did not show up with sounding, and that maybe there was an electrical
problem at our marina that affected the hull (causing the bubbles to form).
She responded and said not other boats at the marina were affected. Could
this phenomenon occur, or what are other typical causes of bubbles to form
in the gelcoat?

2) Is there any recourse against the surveyor if the bubbles were missed
during the survey. (I believe the surveyor is from the Kingston or
Belleville area)?

Mark (the rail, canopy, & lifeline hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:34 -0400, "Mark"
wrote:

The buyer nor the surveyor saw the bubbles last spring, so we do not know if
the bubbles have developed since then (or why) or if they were overlooked by
the surveyor. The surveyor was hired to closely inspect the boat for
potential problems that could otherwise be overlooked by the buyer (the
buyer knew she did not know enough about boats to recognize this type of
problem). Now that she is getting more familiar with the details of the
boat (such applying the bottom wax herself), she is seeing more and asking
more. The bubbles might not even be an issue until the "expert" (the
surveyor) re-inspects the boat. The questions I am asking are merely to
help her (and myself) understand if and how bubbles can start to form, or
were they potentially ovelooked (raising the question of the value of
getting a survey done).


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
"Mark" wrote:

A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed.
While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the
survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

Some information removed.

One question I would have is what kind of a boat are we talking about.
I ask because of the reference to "anti fouling wax". The only boats I
am familiar with that are waxed are all out racing boats.



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:34 -0400, "Mark"
wrote:

The buyer nor the surveyor saw the bubbles last spring, so we do not know
if
the bubbles have developed since then (or why) or if they were overlooked
by
the surveyor. The surveyor was hired to closely inspect the boat for
potential problems that could otherwise be overlooked by the buyer (the
buyer knew she did not know enough about boats to recognize this type of
problem). Now that she is getting more familiar with the details of the
boat (such applying the bottom wax herself), she is seeing more and asking
more. The bubbles might not even be an issue until the "expert" (the
surveyor) re-inspects the boat. The questions I am asking are merely to
help her (and myself) understand if and how bubbles can start to form, or
were they potentially ovelooked (raising the question of the value of
getting a survey done).


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
. ..
"Mark" wrote:

A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed.
While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the
survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

Some information removed.

One question I would have is what kind of a boat are we talking about.
I ask because of the reference to "anti fouling wax". The only boats I
am familiar with that are waxed are all out racing boats.



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


The value of a surveyor's report is questionable.

The insurance companies usually get you to insure the boat as per the
surveyor estimated replacement value.

I would read the contractual obligations written in your surveying contract.

If you have accepted the boat after reading the surveyor's report and agreed
to pay for the services, your legal recourses are thin and the seller is
covered.

The beauty is that a surveyor is only responsible for what he/she can see at
the time of inspection.

However, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In your case, the bubbles have
not developed over one year or so.

Very few lawyers know their ways in that field and the jurisprudence is not
readily available.

I would make an estimate about repairing the boat and the cost of suing the
surveyor and seller before doing anything.

You are not the only one in this situation. It is like having a bad disease
people do not talk about it. Many boaters have to absorb the repair cost.
How to repair it could be the subject of another post.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 May 2007 08:16:10 -0300, said:

Very few lawyers know their ways in that field and the jurisprudence is
not
readily available.

Nonsense. We're talking basic contract and agency law here. And the
"jurisprudence" (by which I take it you mean case law) is easily available
to any half way competent lawyer.

It sounds very good. Show the group how many lawyers have been successful
in obtaining money to compensate for fibreglass osmosis or bubbles in gel
coat after the owner accepted and paid the marine surveyor. Knowingly that
the marine surveyor is only responsible for what he/she can see at the time.

The only sailboat manufacturer that recalled boats for that type of damages
is Beneteau.
Even the Iconics sailboats manufacturers never recalled boats for this type
of damages. This is very interesting because most sailboat builders were
using the same Dow Chemical product.

I would make an estimate about repairing the boat and the cost of suing
the
surveyor and seller before doing anything.

That's good advice. People who sue on "principle" nearly always regret it.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

It has been a year since the survey. Anything could have happened in
that length of time

When the boat was surveyed, had it been out of the water all winter?
Do you haul boats in your area for the winter? Was this boat hauled
this past winter? Was the boat in the water last summer and was it
used? Did your friend put anti-fouling on the boat last spring? What
kind of anti-fouling is she applying?

Other boats in the marina might have had problems which your friend
did not hear about. If she was not able to discern whether there were
problems with the boat she was buying, it is also possible that she
missed that other boats in the marina were having problems.

Or the other boat owners might have put in place sufficient protection
against electrical problems and she failed to do this.

Or maybe the fault developed during the past year because of damage to
the infrastructure or because one of the newer boats in the marina
(maybe even your friend's boat) introduced electrical problems.

IMHO, if there were bubbles at the time of the survey, the surveyor
would have mentioned them, as that is one of the primary things that
they look for in fiberglass hulls. Not only were they not visible,
but sounding (not sure whether this is just tapping on the hull or
whether it was a moisture meter) did not find them.


"Mark" wrote:

A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed. While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

1) The surveyor said the bubbles in the gelcoat were not visible last spring
and did not show up with sounding, and that maybe there was an electrical
problem at our marina that affected the hull (causing the bubbles to form).
She responded and said not other boats at the marina were affected. Could
this phenomenon occur, or what are other typical causes of bubbles to form
in the gelcoat?

2) Is there any recourse against the surveyor if the bubbles were missed
during the survey. (I believe the surveyor is from the Kingston or
Belleville area)?

Mark (the rail, canopy, & lifeline hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

Thanks to everyone for the great feedback and questions. It turns out the
buyer had not seen the bubbles last fall when clening the hull after pulling
it out, so most likely they were not there when the survey was done. The
boat is an 89 Doral.

The bubbles appeared in two places, mid ship on the bottom and toward the
back on the side at the waterline. Both locations have about 20-30 small
bubbles about the size of a Q Tip spread over about a half a square foot.
Another friend looked at the boat and suggested it was osmosis.

Now her challenge is to determine how to get it fixed and what will be
involved.
Mark

"Mark" wrote in message
...
A friend purchased a small cruiser last spring and had it surveyed. While
getting ready for this spring's launch and applying anitfouling wax she
noticed bubbles in the gelcoat. Contacting the person who did the survey,
they said they would have a look at it again on the 20th of May with her
regular mechanic. In the meantime....

1) The surveyor said the bubbles in the gelcoat were not visible last
spring and did not show up with sounding, and that maybe there was an
electrical problem at our marina that affected the hull (causing the
bubbles to form). She responded and said not other boats at the marina
were affected. Could this phenomenon occur, or what are other typical
causes of bubbles to form in the gelcoat?

2) Is there any recourse against the surveyor if the bubbles were missed
during the survey. (I believe the surveyor is from the Kingston or
Belleville area)?

Mark (the rail, canopy, & lifeline hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Thanks to everyone for the great feedback and questions. It turns out
the buyer had not seen the bubbles last fall when clening the hull after
pulling it out, so most likely they were not there when the survey was
done. The boat is an 89 Doral.

The bubbles appeared in two places, mid ship on the bottom and toward the
back on the side at the waterline. Both locations have about 20-30 small
bubbles about the size of a Q Tip spread over about a half a square foot.
Another friend looked at the boat and suggested it was osmosis.

Now her challenge is to determine how to get it fixed and what will be
involved.
Mark


If it is osmotic blistering, the bubbles will ooze styrene-smelling liquid
when pierced. I would suggest testing one where it can most easily be
repaired.

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Thanks to everyone for the great feedback and questions. It turns
out the buyer had not seen the bubbles last fall when clening the
hull after pulling it out, so most likely they were not there when
the survey was done. The boat is an 89 Doral.

The bubbles appeared in two places, mid ship on the bottom and toward
the back on the side at the waterline. Both locations have about
20-30 small bubbles about the size of a Q Tip spread over about a
half a square foot. Another friend looked at the boat and suggested
it was osmosis.

Now her challenge is to determine how to get it fixed and what will
be involved.
Mark


If it is osmotic blistering, the bubbles will ooze styrene-smelling
liquid when pierced. I would suggest testing one where it can most
easily be repaired.


Idiot! They're what's called gel-coat blisters. Tiny little things only
in the outer layer of the gel coat. They are totally inconsequential. If
the boat's had it's topsides painted, they might even be paint blisters.
Awlgrip is prone to these little blisters at the waterline.

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard

Survey missed bubbles in gel coat or recently developed
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:31:16 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

If it is osmotic blistering, the bubbles will ooze styrene-smelling
liquid when pierced. I would suggest testing one where it can most
easily be repaired.


Idiot! They're what's called gel-coat blisters.

Spoken like one who would seek a cancer diagnosis solely by phone. "No
need
to come in and see you, doc. Just tell me what it is."

Experience my lad, experience. Just hang around any busy boatyard and
mention the subject. There's real blisters on the bottom that are large
as your palm and deep all the way to the substrate and often filled with
blackish chemicals and then there's those little itty bitty pencil
eraser sized barely standing proud gel coat blisters that pop up alone
the waterline. They mean nothing. If they bother you sand them off and
raise the bootstripe and apply a couple coats of bottom paint. Problem
solved. Now, run along and stop bothering the professor.

Wilbur Hubbard