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Sea Talk, NMEA
Question to the collective.
A buddy of mine is in the the process of replacing most of the instruments on his sail boat (depth, speed apparent wind). It's a pretty simple installation with no repeaters, just instruments located in the cockpit bulkhead. The question came up what would be the benefit in having the instruments communicate with each other using Sea talk or NMEA? I am well aware of the benefits of having the GPS talk to the Autopilot but any reasons for having the rest of the instruments communicate with each other, escape me. Many thanks in advance for enlightening me. Matt |
Sea Talk, NMEA
wrote in message ups.com... Question to the collective. A buddy of mine is in the the process of replacing most of the instruments on his sail boat (depth, speed apparent wind). It's a pretty simple installation with no repeaters, just instruments located in the cockpit bulkhead. The question came up what would be the benefit in having the instruments communicate with each other using Sea talk or NMEA? I am well aware of the benefits of having the GPS talk to the Autopilot but any reasons for having the rest of the instruments communicate with each other, escape me. Many thanks in advance for enlightening me. Matt If the instruments talk to each other, you can know true wind, current, drift, etc. |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message et... wrote in message ups.com... Question to the collective. A buddy of mine is in the the process of replacing most of the instruments on his sail boat (depth, speed apparent wind). It's a pretty simple installation with no repeaters, just instruments located in the cockpit bulkhead. The question came up what would be the benefit in having the instruments communicate with each other using Sea talk or NMEA? I am well aware of the benefits of having the GPS talk to the Autopilot but any reasons for having the rest of the instruments communicate with each other, escape me. Many thanks in advance for enlightening me. Matt If the instruments talk to each other, you can know true wind, current, drift, etc. You can know all that just by having a magnetic compass and a GPS. You are so lame... Wilbur Hubbard |
Sea Talk, NMEA
In the simple configuration you describe there is no reason for the
instruments to communicate with each other, apart from the wind instrument that can use the speed thru the water to calculate and indicate true wind direction and speed. If apparent wind is all your buddy needs, no communication is necessary whatsoever. If he wants to use the auto pilot in "vane mode", the wind instrument would have to be linked to the auto pilot as well. Cheers, Wout wrote in message ups.com... | Question to the collective. | | A buddy of mine is in the the process of replacing most of the | instruments on his sail boat (depth, speed apparent wind). It's a | pretty simple installation with no repeaters, just instruments located | in the cockpit bulkhead. | | The question came up what would be the benefit in having the | instruments communicate with each other using Sea talk or NMEA? | | I am well aware of the benefits of having the GPS talk to the | Autopilot but any reasons for having the rest of the instruments | communicate with each other, escape me. | | Many thanks in advance for enlightening me. | | | Matt | |
Sea Talk, NMEA
No, you merely guess at it with a magnetic compass and GPS.
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message ... You can know all that just by having a magnetic compass and a GPS. You are so lame... Wilbur Hubbard |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Chuck Tribolet" wrote in message ... No, you merely guess at it with a magnetic compass and GPS. "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message ... You can know all that just by having a magnetic compass and a GPS. You are so lame... Wilbur Hubbard Why use calculus when the instruments can do it for you? :-) And weren't you leaving, Captain Kneel? Oh -- I forgot. The whole "Wilbur is a liar" thing. |
Sea Talk, NMEA
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:46:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: If the instruments talk to each other, you can know true wind, current, drift, etc. You can know all that just by having a magnetic compass and a GPS. You are so lame... And you know not of what you speak. What happened to your departure plan? |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message ... "KLC Lewis" wrote in message et... wrote in message ups.com... Question to the collective. A buddy of mine is in the the process of replacing most of the instruments on his sail boat (depth, speed apparent wind). It's a pretty simple installation with no repeaters, just instruments located in the cockpit bulkhead. The question came up what would be the benefit in having the instruments communicate with each other using Sea talk or NMEA? I am well aware of the benefits of having the GPS talk to the Autopilot but any reasons for having the rest of the instruments communicate with each other, escape me. Many thanks in advance for enlightening me. Matt If the instruments talk to each other, you can know true wind, current, drift, etc. You can know all that just by having a magnetic compass and a GPS. You are so lame... Wilbur Hubbard 1) too many ignorant subscribers 2) too many off-topic posts 3) too much trash talk 4) people here are losers 5) most people don't even know what sailing is, they have pitiful little motor boats, I've been to the rec.boats.cruising picture site. If you liars can cruise in those ugly tiny little runabouts then you're dreaming. There were maybe three or four boats shown that one would be able to cruise in. 6) the most boring subscribers I've ever seen in any group. Good riddance to all of you ******s. Wilbur Hubbard |
Sea Talk, NMEA
On Apr 10, 6:51 pm, "WBH" wrote:
In the simple configuration you describe there is no reason for the instruments to communicate with each other, apart from the wind instrument that can use the speed thru the water to calculate and indicate true wind direction and speed. If apparent wind is all your buddy needs, no communication is necessary whatsoever. If he wants to use the auto pilot in "vane mode", the wind instrument would have to be linked to the auto pilot as well. Cheers, Wout wrote in message ups.com... | Question to the collective. | | A buddy of mine is in the the process of replacing most of the | instruments on his sail boat (depth, speed apparent wind). It's a | pretty simple installation with no repeaters, just instruments located | in the cockpit bulkhead. | | The question came up what would be the benefit in having the | instruments communicate with each other using Sea talk or NMEA? | | I am well aware of the benefits of having the GPS talk to the | Autopilot but any reasons for having the rest of the instruments | communicate with each other, escape me. | | Many thanks in advance for enlightening me. | | | Matt | Wout Many thanks for your reply. I had not considered the autopilot angle. Thanks matt |
Sea Talk, NMEA
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Sea Talk, NMEA
On Apr 10, 11:38 pm, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:1176244717.431800.16850 @n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: SNIP The coordinated turns in any REASONABLE wind/current/speed situation is so smooth....no overshoot or undershoot....Ghosts don't oversteer..(c; Larry -- Larry Many thanks for your info. Matt |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:46:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: If the instruments talk to each other, you can know true wind, current, drift, etc. You can know all that just by having a magnetic compass and a GPS. You are so lame... And you know not of what you speak. What happened to your departure plan? I'm not the real Wilbur Hubbard. I'm somebody else who's frogging him. Won't he be upset if he comes back and sees he's still here! Ha ha ha! Wilbur Hubbard |
Sea Talk, NMEA
And then I think it's fair to say, that if you use Raymarine/SeaTalk it is
(depite disadvantages of a propritary standard) extremely easy to interconnect and at absolutely no extra cost. So if you do; why not interconnect and get the extra features for free. And true wind is a must, unless you call yourself 'Wilbur Hubbard' and is satisfied with sloppy sailing and use your saved energy on being rude to people posting relevant questions. Bjarke wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 10, 11:38 pm, Larry wrote: wrote in news:1176244717.431800.16850 @n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: SNIP The coordinated turns in any REASONABLE wind/current/speed situation is so smooth....no overshoot or undershoot....Ghosts don't oversteer..(c; Larry -- Larry Many thanks for your info. Matt |
Sea Talk, NMEA
The question came up what would be the benefit in having the
instruments communicate with each other using Sea talk or NMEA? There's also the potential reduction in cabling. You can have multiple sensors daisy-chained together on the network instead of running wire from each of them to a display. Less wire, less weight, less to break, less to pay for. Granted, a single network is a potential single point of failure. Or a defective device can, in some situations, disrupt the rest of the network traffic. Fortunately it's easy to plug/unplug such devices to skip over them. I keep a space seatalk 3 port junction and an extra 25' cable on board just for such situations. If he's upgrading the chartplotter make sure the power wiring to it is correct. The gauge on mine is a little too thin and results in just enough voltage drop to be a problem when the systems battery starts to drain. When it was 12v at the battery terminals it was 11.4v at the plotter and got worse as the system battery drained. Re-wiring with heavier gauge power AND ground to the plotter eliminated this problem. So have your friend use a volt meter at the equipment, and then at the battery, to make sure it's sufficient. It'll save him the debugging headaches later... |
Sea Talk, NMEA
This past winter I thought it would be a great time to upgrade my
dated sailing instruments. I spent many hours researching all the vendors, and in the end I went with Raymarine. I was so impressed with the ease of self installation and setup, that I ordered a new C80, GPS, and Wheel pilot the same night. My "old" (2006) GPS unit is still in perfect working condition, and I am using it as a backup now. I was worried about the Seatalk standard at the start, however, I am a absolutley impressed with the whole system. With the C80, and the autopilot the both offer NMEA out which will broadcast many of the Seatalk (not all) sentences to other on board equipment. Although the instuments cost a bit more than others up front you are getting a well engineered product, that you should not have to fuss with. Mike |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"mlkress" wrote in news:1176468858.686885.36230
@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: I was worried about the Seatalk standard at the start, however, I am a absolutley impressed with the whole system. I'd just wish they'd drop the wired serial bus nonsense and go BLUETOOTH with everything on the boat! It's time everything was WIRELESS, even the sensors in the bilge! The speed log Bluetooth pairs with the log transducer. The radar scanner Bluetooth pairs with the radome for video and control. Same with all the rest....(c; Larry -- |
Sea Talk, NMEA
As long as they produce wired instruments for me, then it's fine with me if
you want all the problems with bluetooth. Bjarke "Larry" wrote in message ... "mlkress" wrote in news:1176468858.686885.36230 @n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: I was worried about the Seatalk standard at the start, however, I am a absolutley impressed with the whole system. I'd just wish they'd drop the wired serial bus nonsense and go BLUETOOTH with everything on the boat! It's time everything was WIRELESS, even the sensors in the bilge! The speed log Bluetooth pairs with the log transducer. The radar scanner Bluetooth pairs with the radome for video and control. Same with all the rest....(c; Larry -- |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Bjarke M. Christensen" bjarkeNG@grevestrand_punktum_danmark wrote in
message k... As long as they produce wired instruments for me, then it's fine with me if you want all the problems with bluetooth. What problems with bluetooth? Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
That my ear-device for my telephone contantly get confused and that my
f...... bluetooth keybord and mouse has to be re-installed every time I replace the battery. I wish I'd opted for the IR version or cable .... I btw pulled the wires for my new ST60 log and depth instruments today. 3 hours work and for the next 10 years I know they will *always* be in contact ..... I if they were bluetooth I would have used 2 hours on 12 volt wires anway. Great investment ... Bjarke "Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ll.nl... "Bjarke M. Christensen" bjarkeNG@grevestrand_punktum_danmark wrote in message k... As long as they produce wired instruments for me, then it's fine with me if you want all the problems with bluetooth. What problems with bluetooth? Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
That my ear-device for my telephone contantly get confused and that my
f...... bluetooth keybord and mouse has to be re-installed every time I replace the battery. I wish I'd opted for the IR version or cable .... I btw pulled the wires for my new ST60 log and depth instruments today. 3 hours work and for the next 10 years I know they will *always* be in contact .... I if they were bluetooth I would have used 2 hours on 12 volt wires anway. Great investment ... What he said. Unless there's already power available you're still going to have to run wire. NMEA2000 supports powering devices from the network so it's only one cable to pull. I've got two fuel flow sensors and a GPS antenna off mine. Likewise, I've found the reprogramming madness of bluetooth devices to be more trouble than it's worth. I'd hate to imagine the hassles of reprogramming something at sea, under bad conditions, trying to find the batteries and the manual. No thanks. Wireless has it's place but other than for secondary displays or perhaps remote control I don't see using it on most boats. |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Bjarke M. Christensen" bjarkeNG@grevestrand_punktum_danmark wrote in
message k... That my ear-device for my telephone contantly get confused and that my f...... bluetooth keybord and mouse has to be re-installed every time I replace the battery. I wish I'd opted for the IR version or cable .... Those are typical examples of bad design to save money, resulting in bad reputation of the technology. The same has happened with USB. Both technologies allow for beautiful solutions when done right from the start. Of course I am biased, since I have designed bluetooth and USB enabled multiplexers that do work properly :-) I have had customers buy a multiplexer with a serial interface (resulting in the infamous "crazy mouse" problem in Windows) because they were reluctant to buy one with a USB interface. And it is precisely the one with USB interface that does NOT have this crazy mouse problem and always works, like PnP/USB was supposed to work. The same with bluetooth: by using better modules than cheap consumer stuff, pairing info is stored permanently and every time the system is brought up, the communication is there as if a serial cable was attached. But the cheap consumer stuff is stripped down to the bare necessities, and to save another 50c on cost, the non-volatile memory chip needed to store this sort of info is omitted. A similar problem exists with USB devices, by omitting a tiny chip with a unique serial number, windows can only recognize a cheap usb-serial converter by the USB port is is plugged in, resulting in a different com port number when you plug it in a different USB port. By adding this little chip, such a converter would have the same com port number, no matter which USB port on your PC you plug it into. Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
Agree USB is good. But it doesnt go for the commercially available BT
products. Bjarke "Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ll.nl... "Bjarke M. Christensen" bjarkeNG@grevestrand_punktum_danmark wrote in message k... That my ear-device for my telephone contantly get confused and that my f...... bluetooth keybord and mouse has to be re-installed every time I replace the battery. I wish I'd opted for the IR version or cable .... Those are typical examples of bad design to save money, resulting in bad reputation of the technology. The same has happened with USB. Both technologies allow for beautiful solutions when done right from the start. Of course I am biased, since I have designed bluetooth and USB enabled multiplexers that do work properly :-) I have had customers buy a multiplexer with a serial interface (resulting in the infamous "crazy mouse" problem in Windows) because they were reluctant to buy one with a USB interface. And it is precisely the one with USB interface that does NOT have this crazy mouse problem and always works, like PnP/USB was supposed to work. The same with bluetooth: by using better modules than cheap consumer stuff, pairing info is stored permanently and every time the system is brought up, the communication is there as if a serial cable was attached. But the cheap consumer stuff is stripped down to the bare necessities, and to save another 50c on cost, the non-volatile memory chip needed to store this sort of info is omitted. A similar problem exists with USB devices, by omitting a tiny chip with a unique serial number, windows can only recognize a cheap usb-serial converter by the USB port is is plugged in, resulting in a different com port number when you plug it in a different USB port. By adding this little chip, such a converter would have the same com port number, no matter which USB port on your PC you plug it into. Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
Meindert,
I know that what you build works, but I have several devices that are serial that I need to attach to my newer laptop that only has USB. Do you know of a serial/usb adapter that will not change port numbers on a whim? Thanks Matt Colie Meindert Sprang wrote: "Bjarke M. Christensen" bjarkeNG@grevestrand_punktum_danmark wrote in message k... That my ear-device for my telephone contantly get confused and that my f...... bluetooth keybord and mouse has to be re-installed every time I replace the battery. I wish I'd opted for the IR version or cable .... Those are typical examples of bad design to save money, resulting in bad reputation of the technology. The same has happened with USB. Both technologies allow for beautiful solutions when done right from the start. Of course I am biased, since I have designed bluetooth and USB enabled multiplexers that do work properly :-) I have had customers buy a multiplexer with a serial interface (resulting in the infamous "crazy mouse" problem in Windows) because they were reluctant to buy one with a USB interface. And it is precisely the one with USB interface that does NOT have this crazy mouse problem and always works, like PnP/USB was supposed to work. The same with bluetooth: by using better modules than cheap consumer stuff, pairing info is stored permanently and every time the system is brought up, the communication is there as if a serial cable was attached. But the cheap consumer stuff is stripped down to the bare necessities, and to save another 50c on cost, the non-volatile memory chip needed to store this sort of info is omitted. A similar problem exists with USB devices, by omitting a tiny chip with a unique serial number, windows can only recognize a cheap usb-serial converter by the USB port is is plugged in, resulting in a different com port number when you plug it in a different USB port. By adding this little chip, such a converter would have the same com port number, no matter which USB port on your PC you plug it into. Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
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Sea Talk, NMEA
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
... Meindert, I know that what you build works, but I have several devices that are serial that I need to attach to my newer laptop that only has USB. Do you know of a serial/usb adapter that will not change port numbers on a whim? Sorry, I have no experience with commercially available adapters from the mainstream market. I sell the one from the FTDI website, I use their chips in my USB multiplexers and they're darn good. Their USB-serial adapters are therefore also good, although they have PnP enabled and will exhibit the "crazy mouse" problem, unless you disable that through the property pages of the virtual com port in the device manager. I sell them with customised drivers PnP disabled so they behave as good as my USB multiplexers. They are a bit expensive though, compared to the junk you can buy at your local computer store (41 euro/$55). But you might be able to find them through an FTDI distributor in the US. They also have a much cheaper model that would go for around $30 I believe. http://www.ftdichip.com/index.html Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Bjarke M. Christensen" bjarkeNG@grevestrand_punktum_danmark wrote in
message k... Agree USB is good. But it doesnt go for the commercially available BT products. Not all BT enabled devices are crap. I've got a Holux GPSSlim236 GPS which is very good, and it pairs perfectly and always automatically with my Palm and my Nokia E60. And my Palm always connects with my Nokia 6230i. Haven't got any experience with BT headsets though. Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
Thanks Meindert,
I will contact FTDI. If they do not have US Distributor, I may just bring one in. I do a great deal of work on systems using my old laptop that has an RS232 port but when I have more people working, I get the new system that does not and it is real inconvenient having it change ports with a restart. Matt Colie Meindert Sprang wrote: "Matt Colie" wrote in message ... Meindert, I know that what you build works, but I have several devices that are serial that I need to attach to my newer laptop that only has USB. Do you know of a serial/usb adapter that will not change port numbers on a whim? Sorry, I have no experience with commercially available adapters from the mainstream market. I sell the one from the FTDI website, I use their chips in my USB multiplexers and they're darn good. Their USB-serial adapters are therefore also good, although they have PnP enabled and will exhibit the "crazy mouse" problem, unless you disable that through the property pages of the virtual com port in the device manager. I sell them with customised drivers PnP disabled so they behave as good as my USB multiplexers. They are a bit expensive though, compared to the junk you can buy at your local computer store (41 euro/$55). But you might be able to find them through an FTDI distributor in the US. They also have a much cheaper model that would go for around $30 I believe. http://www.ftdichip.com/index.html Meindert -- target of diversity victim of affirmative action refugee from the war on poverty minimized by political correctness |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
... Meindert, I know that what you build works, but I have several devices that are serial that I need to attach to my newer laptop that only has USB. Do you know of a serial/usb adapter that will not change port numbers on a whim? You might have a look at: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...roducts_id=718 I have had very good luck with this FTDI board. If you try one, be sure to get the drivers from: http://www.ftdichip.com/index.html I have NOT experienced any port hopping with this puppy! HTH Vic Vic Fraenckel KC2GUI victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com |
Sea Talk, NMEA
"Victor Fraenckel" wrote in message
... You might have a look at: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...roducts_id=718 I have had very good luck with this FTDI board. If you try one, be sure to get the drivers from: http://www.ftdichip.com/index.html I have NOT experienced any port hopping with this puppy! That is indeed the right chip. But that board outputs TTL levels and I'm afraid Matt needs to connect it to ordinary RS-232 stuff. Meindert |
Sea Talk, NMEA
Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Victor Fraenckel" wrote in message ... You might have a look at: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...roducts_id=718 I have had very good luck with this FTDI board. If you try one, be sure to get the drivers from: http://www.ftdichip.com/index.html I have NOT experienced any port hopping with this puppy! That is indeed the right chip. But that board outputs TTL levels and I'm afraid Matt needs to connect it to ordinary RS-232 stuff. Meindert Level shift it with the MAX232. I don't know of a ready-made solution for this though. Vic |
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