Small cheap generator
 

The Heartland America catalogue just arrived showing a 2 HP 1000 watt, 15"
x 13" x 14" generator for $147.95 (including shipping and handling after
$20.00 rebate). This might be a toy but maybe just the thing to lug out in
the dinghy to recharge the batteries if they should get so low that the
engine won't start or to run some power tools.

Is this price too low for this to be an item that can actually be used?

--
Roger Long

Small cheap generator
 

On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:53:29 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Is this price too low for this to be an item that can actually be used?

Who can say. Ignoring the $20 rebate it will probably be about $175
or so with shipping, and another $25 if you aren't happy and have to
return it for a refund. Will they give you a full refund on returns?
Is the price within your pain threshold if it turns out to be a dud
and dies a day after the warrantee is up? Can you get parts and
service for its brand-X motor? If not it's a throw away.

My favorite remedy for emergency starting is to keep a small to
mid-size gel cell battery on the boat, fully charged and totally
disconnected. Gel cells have a low self discharge rate and only need
to be topped up every 3 months or so. It's always there and you
don't have to tote a generator and gas out to the boat. All you need
is a set of jumper cables and you can be started up in less than a
minute. Once you get the engine started you can have all the AC you
want with an inverter which is a handy thing to have onboard in any
case.

Small cheap generator
 

On Apr 2, 9:53 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
The Heartland America catalogue just arrived showing a 2 HP 1000 watt, 15"
x 13" x 14" generator for $147.95 (including shipping and handling after
$20.00 rebate). This might be a toy but maybe just the thing to lug out in
the dinghy to recharge the batteries if they should get so low that the
engine won't start or to run some power tools.

Is this price too low for this to be an item that can actually be used?

--
Roger Long

This is too much to address on a NG, I suggest you hire a marine
electrician.

Also, I suggest you keep gasoline off your boats if at all possible.

Joe

Small cheap generator
 

Small cheap generator
 

I think I've talked myself out of it though. With care, I would never use
it. If the need did arise, I could pick up the cheapest car battery I could
find for a fraction of the price and lug it out there more convieniently and
easily than the generator. It would be a fraction the price and wouldn't
upset the neighbors on shore so much. In the meantime, it will be sitting
on a store shelf somewhere waiting for me rather than taking up space in the
garage and having its gas go stale.

In a pinch, I could even borrow the battery from the car.

--
Roger Long

Small cheap generator
 

Roger Long wrote:

Now, if that fellow who was teasing us about developing a similar diesel
unit would just resurface....


I'm still here. The diesel charger project is ongoing. Unfortunately our
clients keep on giving us paying work which preempts our in-house projects.
The marine charger itself is an offshoot of a land-based small-scale hybrid
power project, so we are at least a year away from a prototype.

Roger, I'll be sure to contact you when we have units ready for field testing.

--
Chuck Cox
SynchroSystems - embedded computer design - http://synchro.com

my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

Small cheap generator
 

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

The Heartland America catalogue just arrived showing a 2 HP 1000
watt, 15" x 13" x 14" generator for $147.95 (including shipping and
handling after $20.00 rebate). This might be a toy but maybe just the
thing to lug out in the dinghy to recharge the batteries if they
should get so low that the engine won't start or to run some power
tools.

Is this price too low for this to be an item that can actually be
used?


I thought it was fantastic, but then started reading a little closer:

"The 2HP air cooled two-stroke engine"

A 2-stroke engine is NOT a good thing where FREQUENCY, i.e. stable RPM
over load, is an issue.

So, I got curious and called Heartland America, an importer of cheap
Chinese crap......

After considerable consultations with 2 people I assume were supervisors
when she left the phone line open, rather than putting me on hold...
(c;...NOONE at Heartland America could tell me the name of the
manufacturer of this generator! They made several phone calls in the
background I could hear faintly, but no answer except, "It's imported."

Many really cheap generators use high frequency (200-1000 Hz) coils, some
built right inside the flywheel like the stator coils on an outboard
motor. This requires little iron core at this frequency. Your outboard
motor's ignition and battery charging permanent magnet flywheel generator
is quite high frequency, but that doesn't matter as it's all just
rectified into HV DC for ignition or LV DC for charging. That's exactly
what I'd expect to find in this bargain....hooked straight to the AC
terminals. That little weedeater engine, and that's exactly what it is,
cannot hold its RPM. Try using a 2-stroke gas weedeater...AND...holding
its RPM up as you vary the load trimming the lawn. Same with a chainsaw.

Not a good thing hooked to a $800 electronic supercharger boat battery
charger computer? There, now you're thinking!

Here's a good little generator that puts out EXACTLY 60 Hz and EXACTLY
120VAC in a very nice modified sine wave at any load up to 1KW. It's 4-
stroke engine will run MORE than 150 hours the Chinese 2-stroker will run
before its engine is worn out:

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...elName=eu1000i

Mine must have 2000 hours on it. It'll run from 4-8 hours on .6 gallons
of regular gas in Economode. Its computer-controlled throttle runs on
electrical demand, not wide open all the time. Engine speed means
nothing because its AC output comes from a computer-controlled 120VAC 60
Hz electronic generator. 8A charges the batteries, but it's not even
voltage regulated, not much of an issue.

This is not my favorite. This is:
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...lName=eu3000is
It powers my mobile shop, including two 8000 Btu Korean air conditioners
all summer. 3 gallons will cool and run my shop about 10 hours. You can
hardly hear it run 20 feet from the truck. Up to 1800 watts, in
economode, the engine's only running 1200 RPM, which should run a LONG
time.

Honda has made me drool over a new ELECTRONIC model:
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...Name=eu6500isa
It's ACTUALLY two 18.8A inverters running off one motor. In series, you
get house power 120/240VAC, 60 Hz. In 120V, you get two 120V separate
outputs. I'm not sure if they can be paralleled, like the little
generators can, to get a full 6500 watts to one 120VAC load. Needs more
research. If it's as quiet as my EU3000is, trail it out in the dingy
50' behind the boat on its power cord and the DOCK would make more
noise...(c;

Small generators, here, are spelled H-O-N-D-A....just like small lawn
mowers.

Larry
--

Small cheap generator
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in
:

The Heartland America catalogue just arrived showing a 2 HP 1000
watt, 15" x 13" x 14" generator for $147.95 (including shipping and
handling after $20.00 rebate). This might be a toy but maybe just
the
thing to lug out in the dinghy to recharge the batteries if they
should get so low that the engine won't start or to run some power
tools.

Is this price too low for this to be an item that can actually be
used?


I thought it was fantastic, but then started reading a little closer:

"The 2HP air cooled two-stroke engine"

A 2-stroke engine is NOT a good thing where FREQUENCY, i.e. stable RPM
over load, is an issue.

So, I got curious and called Heartland America, an importer of cheap
Chinese crap......

After considerable consultations with 2 people I assume were
supervisors
when she left the phone line open, rather than putting me on hold...
(c;...NOONE at Heartland America could tell me the name of the
manufacturer of this generator! They made several phone calls in the
background I could hear faintly, but no answer except, "It's
imported."

Many really cheap generators use high frequency (200-1000 Hz) coils,
some
built right inside the flywheel like the stator coils on an outboard
motor. This requires little iron core at this frequency. Your
outboard
motor's ignition and battery charging permanent magnet flywheel
generator
is quite high frequency, but that doesn't matter as it's all just
rectified into HV DC for ignition or LV DC for charging. That's
exactly
what I'd expect to find in this bargain....hooked straight to the AC
terminals. That little weedeater engine, and that's exactly what it
is,
cannot hold its RPM. Try using a 2-stroke gas
weedeater...AND...holding
its RPM up as you vary the load trimming the lawn. Same with a
chainsaw.

Not a good thing hooked to a $800 electronic supercharger boat battery
charger computer? There, now you're thinking!

Here's a good little generator that puts out EXACTLY 60 Hz and EXACTLY
120VAC in a very nice modified sine wave at any load up to 1KW. It's
4-
stroke engine will run MORE than 150 hours the Chinese 2-stroker will
run
before its engine is worn out:

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...elName=eu1000i

Mine must have 2000 hours on it. It'll run from 4-8 hours on .6
gallons
of regular gas in Economode. Its computer-controlled throttle runs on
electrical demand, not wide open all the time. Engine speed means
nothing because its AC output comes from a computer-controlled 120VAC
60
Hz electronic generator. 8A charges the batteries, but it's not even
voltage regulated, not much of an issue.

This is not my favorite. This is:
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...lName=eu3000is
It powers my mobile shop, including two 8000 Btu Korean air
conditioners
all summer. 3 gallons will cool and run my shop about 10 hours. You
can
hardly hear it run 20 feet from the truck. Up to 1800 watts, in
economode, the engine's only running 1200 RPM, which should run a LONG
time.

Honda has made me drool over a new ELECTRONIC model:
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...Name=eu6500isa
It's ACTUALLY two 18.8A inverters running off one motor. In series,
you
get house power 120/240VAC, 60 Hz. In 120V, you get two 120V separate
outputs. I'm not sure if they can be paralleled, like the little
generators can, to get a full 6500 watts to one 120VAC load. Needs
more
research. If it's as quiet as my EU3000is, trail it out in the dingy
50' behind the boat on its power cord and the DOCK would make more
noise...(c;

Small generators, here, are spelled H-O-N-D-A....just like small lawn
mowers.


Yamaha's are better. The guy should not waste his money on a cheap
Chinese imitation generator. Here's what he needs.
http://www.wisesales.com/YamahaEF1000iS.html

It's got he Honda beat fair and square.

Wilbur Hubbard

Small cheap generator
 

Thanks Larry. So seldom do you get such a complet and absolutely to the
point answer around hear and learn some other things in the process.

--
Roger Long

Small cheap generator
 

On Apr 2, 7:15 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
Thanks Larry. So seldom do you get such a complet and absolutely to the
point answer around hear and learn some other things in the process.

--
Roger Long

Well Jeeeze Roger, Anyone can tell with a name like " Heartland of
America" and that price it was cheap made in China crap.

Most Harbor freight items are cheap taiwan, china or korean crap. Good
place to buy a hammer.

Joe

Small cheap generator
 

On 2007-04-02 10:53:29 -0400, "Roger Long" said:

The Heartland America catalogue just arrived showing a 2 HP 1000 watt,
15" x 13" x 14" generator for $147.95 (including shipping and handling
after $20.00 rebate). This might be a toy but maybe just the thing to
lug out in the dinghy to recharge the batteries if they should get so
low that the engine won't start or to run some power tools.

I read the rest of the post, but for my money, a solar cell is ideal
for the core of your problem. Even up Nawth, I expect a 12w one would
bring a battery up enough the start the engine in a few hours.

You're cruising. Why be in such a *hurry*?

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Small cheap generator
 

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
About $500 vs. $1,200. Complete setup with table less than $700. Weight
225
pounds. Shipping -- get this -- NINE DOLLARS, CA to NY. And the sewing
machine does not have a generic brand label.


Did I read that correctly? A sewing machine that weighs 225 pounds?

Small cheap generator
 

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...



"Gogarty" wrote in message
.. .
About $500 vs. $1,200. Complete setup with table less than $700. Weight
225
pounds. Shipping -- get this -- NINE DOLLARS, CA to NY. And the sewing
machine does not have a generic brand label.


Did I read that correctly? A sewing machine that weighs 225 pounds?

Yup. But that's not all there is to it. The machine itself does not weight
that much. But add in the 1/2 HP motor, which is under the table, and the
table itself, which is mostly iron, and it adds up. The thing scares the
bejeesus out of us. It will do 1,500 stitches per minute through eight
layers of Sunbrella. It takes a very light touch on the treadle, which we
have not mastered yet. Not your dainty lingerie sewer.


Man oh man. That thing sounds passing dangerous. The ideal machine to use if
you want to sew your femur to a sail. ;-)

Small cheap generator
 

Which 'solar cell' do you recommend, please, and why ?

Thanks,
Courtney

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2007040223582275249-jerelull@maccom...
On 2007-04-02 10:53:29 -0400, "Roger Long" said:

The Heartland America catalogue just arrived showing a 2 HP 1000 watt,
15" x 13" x 14" generator for $147.95 (including shipping and handling
after $20.00 rebate). This might be a toy but maybe just the thing to
lug out in the dinghy to recharge the batteries if they should get so
low that the engine won't start or to run some power tools.

I read the rest of the post, but for my money, a solar cell is ideal
for the core of your problem. Even up Nawth, I expect a 12w one would
bring a battery up enough the start the engine in a few hours.

You're cruising. Why be in such a *hurry*?

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Small cheap generator
 

On 2007-04-07 18:35:57 -0400, "Courtney Thomas"
said:

Which 'solar cell' do you recommend, please, and why ?

Thanks,
Courtney

We're mostly weekenders, with two or three 2-3 week trips thrown in, so
a 12w works fine for keeping our 120 AH group 31 up to snuff. When we
return after 4 days away, the battery is almost always at 100%.

Accidently, we ran the battery flat. As a test, I turned everything off
to see what the cell would do. By 11 AM, we had charge enough to start
the Yanmar.

But our needs are minimal. The anchor light, VHF and autopilot are our
big draws. No windlass, pressurized water, TV, computer or the like,
and our lights are mostly LED or fluorescent.

I like "hard" cells because they give slightly better performance, but
many have made a good case for the flexible ones.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Small cheap generator
 

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2007040819034016807-jerelull@maccom...
On 2007-04-07 18:35:57 -0400, "Courtney Thomas"
said:

Which 'solar cell' do you recommend, please, and why ?

Thanks,
Courtney

We're mostly weekenders, with two or three 2-3 week trips thrown in,
so a 12w works fine for keeping our 120 AH group 31 up to snuff. When
we return after 4 days away, the battery is almost always at 100%.

Accidently, we ran the battery flat. As a test, I turned everything
off to see what the cell would do. By 11 AM, we had charge enough to
start the Yanmar.

But our needs are minimal. The anchor light, VHF and autopilot are our
big draws. No windlass, pressurized water, TV, computer or the like,
and our lights are mostly LED or fluorescent.

I like "hard" cells because they give slightly better performance, but
many have made a good case for the flexible ones.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/


A case of the blind leading the blind?

Sorry Jere but you should refrain from speaking and let people think
you're ignorant rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Please
allow me to correct your misconceptions.

1) It's called a photovoltaic panel not a "cell" Photovoltaic panels
consist of several solar cells wired together.

2) Amorphous (flexible) photovoltaic panels are less than half as
efficient as the more costly polycrystalline or monocrystalline panels
area for area.

3) A twelve-watt panel will output about 3/4 amp max. This means it will
take about 100 hours ideal sun conditions to charge a fully discharged
85 amp hour battery and more than 150 hours to charge your 120 amp hour
battery.

Wilbur Hubbard

Small cheap generator
 

In article ,
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote:


Wilbur Hubbard


I thought you left....

Small cheap generator
 

On 2007-04-08 19:19:13 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

3) A twelve-watt panel will output about 3/4 amp max. This means it
will take about 100 hours ideal sun conditions to charge a fully
discharged 85 amp hour battery and more than 150 hours to charge your
120 amp hour battery.

It still measures about 1.2 amps in good sunlight after 3 seasons --
panels are rated for what they'll deliver when they're something like
8-10 years old. They do better new.

I said I had enough of a charge to start the Yanmar, not that the
battery was 100%. Doesn't take much with big, short battery leads.

AND, I am not talking theory, but experience.

YMMV, but that's to be expected in all installations.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Small cheap generator
 

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2007041002411316807-jerelull@maccom...
On 2007-04-08 19:19:13 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

3) A twelve-watt panel will output about 3/4 amp max. This means it
will take about 100 hours ideal sun conditions to charge a fully
discharged 85 amp hour battery and more than 150 hours to charge your
120 amp hour battery.

It still measures about 1.2 amps in good sunlight after 3 seasons --
panels are rated for what they'll deliver when they're something like
8-10 years old. They do better new.

You must be measuring no-load, dead short, amperage. You will find your
amperage at the 14-15 volts needed to charge your batteries is perhaps
half that figure.


I said I had enough of a charge to start the Yanmar, not that the
battery was 100%. Doesn't take much with big, short battery leads.

AND, I am not talking theory, but experience.

Sounds more like talking ignorance to me . . .


Wilbur Hubbard