On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:27:03 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:13:12 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:31:40 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:02:00 +0700, Bruce
wrote:



I guess where Wilbur misses the boat is his remark that "Lawyers who
are worth make, what, about 500 dollars an hour so he ought to be
able to afford a real boat and a classy boat", and Wilbur is probably
right.

But instead of buying a boat that meets Wilbur's standards for a
proper boat the guy went out and bought what HE wanted. Probably what
a lot of people do -- ignore Wilbur and buy what they want....
Much snipped


Besides, after being retired for ten years I've forgotten most of my
Bahasa Indonesia and can hardly bargain with a Malaysian taxi any
more.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)
You shouldn't have to. They speak English but some try that ploy on
matsallehs like you and I if they think we're not local. It's the
Indian ones who always seem to have a non-functioning meter. Just ask
them to take you to the Police station. The meter suddenly works.
Larry, you might try this electronics fix sometime.

Peter
who still prefers Penang to Bangkok where the most beautiful women
were men.

P.S. Bruce, have you seen the movie "Beautiful Boxer'?
My wife and I once saw her box. Great boxer and very beautiful. We
loved the bit where she dropped her opponent and then kissed him on
the head. My girls watched the movie recently and decided that they
would like to learn Thai Kick Boxing. Still trying to find someone in
Penang who could teach them.

What meters? I have never even seen a taxi in Penang that had a meter.
Always, "how much to Mokta...", "Long way, Boss, 50 Ringgit". I admit,
they do have a shuttle bus that runs around the downtown area but you
get on the bus and go somewhere and then get back on the bus to come
back and it takes a different road. Where to get off?

By the way, I relayed your comments about Bangkok beautiful women to
my wife who says that if you believe that then your taste in partners
is highly suspect. She says that she's heard all about that geezer
(from Penang, was he?) that got put in jail down there for playing
games with his driver. Tit for Tat.....

Kick boxing may look like fun and games in the movies but it is a
damned brutal sport. To get the full benefit you need to go to the
up-country matches where the young boxers are not as well trained and
are fighting for a week's pay. Tell your daughters to imagine someone
slamming their elbow in their face then kicking them as hard as they
can just under the ribs.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

What meters? I have never even seen a taxi in Penang that had a meter.
Always, "how much to Mokta...", "Long way, Boss, 50 Ringgit". I admit,
they do have a shuttle bus that runs around the downtown area but you
get on the bus and go somewhere and then get back on the bus to come
back and it takes a different road. Where to get off?

By the way, I relayed your comments about Bangkok beautiful women to
my wife who says that if you believe that then your taste in partners
is highly suspect. She says that she's heard all about that geezer
(from Penang, was he?) that got put in jail down there for playing
games with his driver. Tit for Tat.....

Kick boxing may look like fun and games in the movies but it is a
damned brutal sport. To get the full benefit you need to go to the
up-country matches where the young boxers are not as well trained and
are fighting for a week's pay. Tell your daughters to imagine someone
slamming their elbow in their face then kicking them as hard as they
can just under the ribs.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

Excellent Bruce,

Quid pro quo.

My respectful regards to your Lady wife.
I have never had a driver.

Yes we have different laws here. Twice now I have been out walking
along the street (not in Penang) with my friends' Malay kids who were
staying with us for the holidays on the yacht, holding their hands
etc., when I have been accosted by the police as to what I was doing
with them and why was I holding my niece's hand (she was about 12 or
13 at the time) as I was obviously not a blood relative. The kids had
to say "But he's our uncle".

The papers sometimes have some delightful stories along the same lines
such as when a male police sergeant and a female constable were
charged with 'fraternisation' after being found in a hotel room. Their
story was that they were on surveilance. However, when the religious
police knocked on the door he opened it with only a towel around his
waist.

As I am of Greek ethnic origin, I embrace my friends - perfectly
acceptable in the Middle East and southern Europe. The Malays have
gotten used to me hugging them even though they only ever shake hands.
I am waiting for the religious police to haul me in on the matter.

You know of course that there are seperate supermarket check-out
queues for men amnd women in Kelantan state?

Love this country.

Peter

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...

Yes we have different laws here. Twice now I have been out walking
along the street (not in Penang) with my friends' Malay kids who were
staying with us for the holidays on the yacht, holding their hands
etc., when I have been accosted by the police as to what I was doing
with them and why was I holding my niece's hand (she was about 12 or
13 at the time) as I was obviously not a blood relative. The kids had
to say "But he's our uncle".

The papers sometimes have some delightful stories along the same lines
such as when a male police sergeant and a female constable were
charged with 'fraternisation' after being found in a hotel room. Their
story was that they were on surveilance. However, when the religious
police knocked on the door he opened it with only a towel around his
waist.

As I am of Greek ethnic origin, I embrace my friends - perfectly
acceptable in the Middle East and southern Europe. The Malays have
gotten used to me hugging them even though they only ever shake hands.
I am waiting for the religious police to haul me in on the matter.

You know of course that there are seperate supermarket check-out
queues for men amnd women in Kelantan state?

Love this country.

Peter

Peter,

Surely you've heard the expression, "When in Rome..."?

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:56:06 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
.. .

Yes we have different laws here. Twice now I have been out walking
along the street (not in Penang) with my friends' Malay kids who were
staying with us for the holidays on the yacht, holding their hands
etc., when I have been accosted by the police as to what I was doing
with them and why was I holding my niece's hand (she was about 12 or
13 at the time) as I was obviously not a blood relative. The kids had
to say "But he's our uncle".

The papers sometimes have some delightful stories along the same lines
such as when a male police sergeant and a female constable were
charged with 'fraternisation' after being found in a hotel room. Their
story was that they were on surveilance. However, when the religious
police knocked on the door he opened it with only a towel around his
waist.

As I am of Greek ethnic origin, I embrace my friends - perfectly
acceptable in the Middle East and southern Europe. The Malays have
gotten used to me hugging them even though they only ever shake hands.
I am waiting for the religious police to haul me in on the matter.

You know of course that there are seperate supermarket check-out
queues for men amnd women in Kelantan state?

Love this country.

Peter

Peter,

Surely you've heard the expression, "When in Rome..."?

Hi Karin,
Yes I have and I usually do wherever I travel.

However, I have also found that people accept genuine actions from
those of other cultures. The people I work with and have close
association with know me well and accept that it is part of my
culture. A close friend has told me that they actually quite like the
gesture. Bear in mind that sometimes we are in close poximity, 24
hours a day for days on end on small boats and so you get quite close
to some of youir colleagues (no, not that close)and subsequently their
families. Don't get the idea that I rush up to everyone and grab
them. I usually only do it when I haven't seen them for a while or
when leaving for a period such as coming back to this boat such as I
do to my close friends and relations elsewhere. People don't cringe
but just reciprocate the gesture of affection.

Respect for other people's customs is as it should be but it does not
mean that you have to be blind about it. I have read and been told by
foreigners that one should never touch a Malay child's head for
example. I ruffle my neice's and nephews all the time and kiss them on
the forehead. It is not a matter of tolerating my behaviour but one of
accepting my ways as I accept theirs. I noticed after a while that my
son greeted older people by kissing their hand and touiching it to his
fiorehead as the other kids did. He never saw anything strange in it
and we certainly never told him to.

When I worked for China Telecom and attended meetings where foreign
business introduced themselves by presenting their business cards with
two hands, my Chinese colleagues usually made a remark in Chinese
about "another one who has attended the course" (on how to do business
in China). A dog does not eat grass so I passed mine over to the
visitors in return with one hand or pushed it across the table.

When it comes down to it, people are just people and it is far better
to just be yourself in a lot of situations. Others usually accept and
appreciate that.

cheers
Peter

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...

Hi Karin,
Yes I have and I usually do wherever I travel.

However, I have also found that people accept genuine actions from
those of other cultures. The people I work with and have close
association with know me well and accept that it is part of my
culture. A close friend has told me that they actually quite like the
gesture. Bear in mind that sometimes we are in close poximity, 24
hours a day for days on end on small boats and so you get quite close
to some of youir colleagues (no, not that close)and subsequently their
families. Don't get the idea that I rush up to everyone and grab
them. I usually only do it when I haven't seen them for a while or
when leaving for a period such as coming back to this boat such as I
do to my close friends and relations elsewhere. People don't cringe
but just reciprocate the gesture of affection.

Respect for other people's customs is as it should be but it does not
mean that you have to be blind about it. I have read and been told by
foreigners that one should never touch a Malay child's head for
example. I ruffle my neice's and nephews all the time and kiss them on
the forehead. It is not a matter of tolerating my behaviour but one of
accepting my ways as I accept theirs. I noticed after a while that my
son greeted older people by kissing their hand and touiching it to his
fiorehead as the other kids did. He never saw anything strange in it
and we certainly never told him to.

When I worked for China Telecom and attended meetings where foreign
business introduced themselves by presenting their business cards with
two hands, my Chinese colleagues usually made a remark in Chinese
about "another one who has attended the course" (on how to do business
in China). A dog does not eat grass so I passed mine over to the
visitors in return with one hand or pushed it across the table.

When it comes down to it, people are just people and it is far better
to just be yourself in a lot of situations. Others usually accept and
appreciate that.

cheers
Peter

Interesting comments, Peter, and I'm sure you are not your country's version
of "The Ugly American." I have always been exceptionally aware of the image
that too many Americans present when visiting foreign countries, however,
and have always done my best to observe local customs and mores to the best
of my ability. While I doubt that I'd be willing to adopt a burkha in those
Arab countries which expect it of native women, neither would I dress like a
pop tart. But then, I don't anyway. lol

I suspect my natural tendency to touch the heads of children would not serve
me well where Malay children are concerned, and I don't know that I would be
able to supress such a subconscious act -- but I would sure have to try.

The observation about Chinese businessmen strikes me as curious. I should
think that they would appreciate that the foreigners had taken the trouble
to learn and make an attempt to be courteous. In most Asian cultures, I
believe that all gifts should be both offered with, and accepted with, both
hands. Funny that this would be snickered at when done by visitors. Heck, I
even do it in sushi bars. But then, I also bow in my seat when the waiter in
a Denny's brings me my food. Hard to break some habits.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:31:14 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


Interesting comments, Peter, and I'm sure you are not your country's version
of "The Ugly American." I have always been exceptionally aware of the image
that too many Americans present when visiting foreign countries, however,
and have always done my best to observe local customs and mores to the best
of my ability. While I doubt that I'd be willing to adopt a burkha in those
Arab countries which expect it of native women, neither would I dress like a
pop tart. But then, I don't anyway. lol

I suspect my natural tendency to touch the heads of children would not serve
me well where Malay children are concerned, and I don't know that I would be
able to supress such a subconscious act -- but I would sure have to try.

The observation about Chinese businessmen strikes me as curious. I should
think that they would appreciate that the foreigners had taken the trouble
to learn and make an attempt to be courteous. In most Asian cultures, I
believe that all gifts should be both offered with, and accepted with, both
hands. Funny that this would be snickered at when done by visitors. Heck, I
even do it in sushi bars. But then, I also bow in my seat when the waiter in
a Denny's brings me my food. Hard to break some habits.

In reading your response, I have to admit that yours is the more
circumspect behaviour and is appreciated in foreign lands where one
does not know the locals. In hindsight I recall being more sensitive
to local social customs when we were first in a lot of the areas we
have been. The behaviour I exhibit now when amongst friends and work
colleagues in Malaysia was not how I behaved when I first arrived.
Over a period of time they and I have gotten to know and accept each
other. As I said, working, sleeping and eating, laughing and talking
in close proximity for days on end engenders a certain intimacy,
especially when there are sometimes situations where, for safety, all
must rely on each other. And, as I mentioned, people are not stupid.
They can see when someone is genuine or not. Children are quite
possibly the best judges of all and they have learned that this Uncle
is an easy mark and will do whatever they want.

As to the Chinese, it often comes as a shock to Westerners to find
that a lot of Chinese consider their culture as being far superior to
others. They do not gauge the worth of a culture solely by its
material or technilogical success as many do in the occidental
nations. Most Chinese have a general comprehension of the age of their
civilisation and an awareness of the cyclic nature of Chinese dynastic
economies and power. Many have spoken of their belief, rightly or
wrongly, that America is on the decline economically as well as
socially and that China will one day be the world power again.

With all of this, a dog still does not eat grass and I refuse to
become a mimic of cultures that are not my own. I show respect, yes. I
take part in their cultures and learn the language, yes. I eat and
stay in their homes and they in mine and we swap children for holidays
and weekends. But to pretend that I am not a New Zealander would be
patronising. I do however wear a sarong at home and at sea. They
reciprocate by now giving their kids birthday parties with cakes and
candles.

if you would like, I could email you one of my newsletters of my
travels that I send to friends. It was written about 5 years ago,
describes life on board a Malaysian Customs patrol boat and has some
photos as well. Just email me with your email handle.

As I said, I love my country (ies)

cheers
Peter

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:51:09 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote:


What meters? I have never even seen a taxi in Penang that had a meter.
Always, "how much to Mokta...", "Long way, Boss, 50 Ringgit". I admit,
they do have a shuttle bus that runs around the downtown area but you
get on the bus and go somewhere and then get back on the bus to come
back and it takes a different road. Where to get off?

By the way, I relayed your comments about Bangkok beautiful women to
my wife who says that if you believe that then your taste in partners
is highly suspect. She says that she's heard all about that geezer

Much snipped


You know of course that there are seperate supermarket check-out
queues for men amnd women in Kelantan state?

Love this country.

Peter

I refuse to get embroiled in a religious debate other then to say that
while I worked with a large number of folks who certainly were devout
I never say the animosity that appears to exist today.

I spent more then twenty years in Indonesia (the largest Moslem
country in the world, population wise) and never saw anything like
separate supermarket lines for male and female. I know that certain
hotels would refuse to rent a room to a couple who obviously weren't
married but it appeared more that many hotels preferred not to be
known as places of assignment. In fact many Moslems I knew in
Indonesia view many of Malaysia's customs as being (dare I say it) a
bit ridiculous.

Enough of this subject.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:10:51 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:51:09 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote:


What meters? I have never even seen a taxi in Penang that had a meter.
Always, "how much to Mokta...", "Long way, Boss, 50 Ringgit". I admit,
they do have a shuttle bus that runs around the downtown area but you
get on the bus and go somewhere and then get back on the bus to come
back and it takes a different road. Where to get off?

By the way, I relayed your comments about Bangkok beautiful women to
my wife who says that if you believe that then your taste in partners
is highly suspect. She says that she's heard all about that geezer

Much snipped


You know of course that there are seperate supermarket check-out
queues for men amnd women in Kelantan state?

Love this country.

Peter

I refuse to get embroiled in a religious debate other then to say that
while I worked with a large number of folks who certainly were devout
I never say the animosity that appears to exist today.

I spent more then twenty years in Indonesia (the largest Moslem
country in the world, population wise) and never saw anything like
separate supermarket lines for male and female. I know that certain
hotels would refuse to rent a room to a couple who obviously weren't
married but it appeared more that many hotels preferred not to be
known as places of assignment. In fact many Moslems I knew in
Indonesia view many of Malaysia's customs as being (dare I say it) a
bit ridiculous.

Enough of this subject.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)
Hi Bruce,
I concur entirely with your views. The headscarf for women was hardly
worn 20 years ago. Now in Kelatan state, woman may be fined, and are,
50 Ringit for not wearing one. Now I am seeing a few Malay women from
there wearing full burkha. When I ask why - I am informed that they
are "very religious people" - ridiculous.

Still, as you say, enough of this subject.

cheers
Peter