On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:02:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:11 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

--Livability. I just don't have the experience here, from what I've
read the Mac is as comfortable as any 26. Since I've tented for
weeks at a time, I don't see a problem with it. I'm not going to be
living on the boat. Me and the wife on 2-6 week cruises, and we
are not tall, and not fat.

With all due respect, that boat will get very small for two people
after a few days of cruising. I appreciate what you are trying to do
but I hate to see you spend money on a boat that neither sails, motors
or cruises very well. See if you can rent one for a week before you
buy.

In the long run I think you'd be happier with something like a RF246
with a 4 stroke outboard on it.

http://www.rosboroughboats.com/

Try to find a good used one.

Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen
it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target
though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy
it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore.
Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like
the idea of sailing, having crewed some.

--Vic

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:44:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like
the idea of sailing, having crewed some.

Sure, sailing is great fun but it is difficult to get a boat that
sails well and cruises well, and still meets your shallow draft
requirement. You might want to get an inexpensive day sailor just as
a fun boat. There are lots to choose from, but one of my choices
would be a Flying Scot.

http://www.flyingscot.com/

They are good boats that sail very well and meet your specs with the
exception of cruising. You can beach them and go tent camping of
course. I'm guessing you could pick up a good used one with trailer
for less than $5K.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:19:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:44:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like
the idea of sailing, having crewed some.

Sure, sailing is great fun but it is difficult to get a boat that
sails well and cruises well, and still meets your shallow draft
requirement. You might want to get an inexpensive day sailor just as
a fun boat. There are lots to choose from, but one of my choices
would be a Flying Scot.

http://www.flyingscot.com/

They are good boats that sail very well and meet your specs with the
exception of cruising. You can beach them and go tent camping of
course. I'm guessing you could pick up a good used one with trailer
for less than $5K.

Boy, you're gonna keep me busy boating on the net for a few more days
now! You've dead on about combining cruising/sailing/shallow draft
capabilities in one boat I can afford. That Mac 26 comes closest
right now.
Ideally, I'd get a Flying Scot for sailing and something like the
Rosborough RF-246 for cruising, but I'm not ready to commit that much
money yet. Too many questions to be answered, especially some
hands-on boating. Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.
Thanks for the ideas. Now I'll go tell the wife I changed my mind
about buying a boat. I want at least 2 boats.

--Vic

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs :-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs :-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.



Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it
seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they
almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea.
They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time
and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to
kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do
sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mar 24, 10:20 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs :-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.

Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it
seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they
almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea.
They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time
and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to
kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do
sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon.

--
"j" ganz


Not sure about a Mac26, but there's some people on my favorite lake,
that have some fairly good sized sail boats, in the 22'-27' range, and
there's a couple of baots that doen't have any sailing rigging on
them. Interesting to note, that they will come in from the St.Louis
area, in a Fri evening (especially on a holiday weekend) load
dufflebags, and coolers, into their non rigged sail boat, then power
there way out into the lake. some diesel, and some small outboard, and
will use the boat for a weekend "water camper".

they like the boat, but don't like sailing.

huh

Tim

In article .com,
Tim wrote:

Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it
seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they
almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea.
They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time
and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to
kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do
sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon.

Not sure about a Mac26, but there's some people on my favorite lake,
that have some fairly good sized sail boats, in the 22'-27' range, and
there's a couple of baots that doen't have any sailing rigging on
them. Interesting to note, that they will come in from the St.Louis
area, in a Fri evening (especially on a holiday weekend) load
dufflebags, and coolers, into their non rigged sail boat, then power
there way out into the lake. some diesel, and some small outboard, and
will use the boat for a weekend "water camper".

they like the boat, but don't like sailing.

huh

No kidding. I didn't specifically say it, but these people never sail
the boat in the marshland. They motor almost exclusively. The only
time they raise the sails is when infrequently venturing out to visit
another inlet. I don't think they turn off the engine.

It's strange, but I guess they like the idea of having sails... just
in case.

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mar 24, 6:52�pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith

wrote:
Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs * *:-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. *Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.

Good observation.

It may be regionally significant, or not. The best months for sailing
in my region are when it's pretty cold and still peeing down rain in
the spring and fall. The winds don't come up until late in the
afternoon a lot of midsummer days when the weather is warmer.

As a result, most of the sailboats in this corner of the country
operate under power most of the time. Sailing seems to be reserved for
racing, or for screwing around with for an hour or two after arriving
in the general vicinity of the ultimate daily destination. Of course
there are scattered exceptions, just enough to prove the rule. From
that respect, a MacGregor that spent most of its time in powerboat
mode wouldn't vary much from a more elite brand doing the same thing.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 24, 6:52?pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith

wrote:
Good observation.

It may be regionally significant, or not. The best months for sailing
in my region are when it's pretty cold and still peeing down rain in
the spring and fall. The winds don't come up until late in the
afternoon a lot of midsummer days when the weather is warmer.

As a result, most of the sailboats in this corner of the country
operate under power most of the time. Sailing seems to be reserved for
racing, or for screwing around with for an hour or two after arriving
in the general vicinity of the ultimate daily destination. Of course
there are scattered exceptions, just enough to prove the rule. From
that respect, a MacGregor that spent most of its time in powerboat
mode wouldn't vary much from a more elite brand doing the same thing.


That's a real shame. here we can count on the usual South West winds to
come up around 1000 hrs and last until 1900 hrs.
We would go a whole season on a tank of diesel.

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:52:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no
doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail.

More like 3 dogs :-)

The Flying Scot will run circles around it.

The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people
end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly
as well suited for that as a real power boat.

Your opinion noted and respected.
I've spent considerable time reading the Mac forum and other sail
forums, including ASA. You're right about Mac 26's being used mostly
under power, but the same is true for all cruising sailboats, Mac or
not. The Mac just powers better.
I've read post after post from non-Mac cruising sailors who hardly
ever sail! They are frank when informal surveys are done.
Not enough wind to hoist sail. Too windy to hoist sail. ICW
unsuitable for sailing. Easier to just crank up the motor. Don't
want to beat against the wind. Prefer not to heel too much because
the drinks get spilled. And on and on. Others are marina or hook
sailors who seemingly *never* sail, but write posts about sailing
quite a bit, much as I'm doing and I don't even have a boat!
Just as a rough estimate from my reading, I'd say Mac owners spend
more time out in the water moving than the average sailboat owner.
Some of the Mac owners sail quite a bit and enjoy it. Some
of them have been sailing all their lives on quicker boats but still
are happy to sail their Macs. Since I'm not a sailing purist, and
have vowed never to be in a hurry, I have no problem with the Mac
being slow. I'll give a friendly wave to those who pass and leave
them to feel like happy because they passed a Mac. Since you were a
racing sailor, you may have difficulty connecting to that mindset.
Of course, maybe I'll trouble with it to when I get to sailing.
Bottom line is you want to sail, you hoist sail. If you want to race
under sail and brag about it, don't get a Mac.
Actually, on the power cruiser side, there seems to be even less
compromise.
Like sailers, power cruisers come in many flavors. Speed, cabin
size, fishing suitability, economy and weather handling quickly come
to mind. The Mac is again slow to the speedster, probably doing
12-15 knots with a cruising load and 50hp. Still faster than tugs and
trawlers at better economy. Might get superb MPG if powered right and
kept below hull speed. Most owners don't use it that way.
It's not a good fishing platform. It's better in weather than an open
boat and at least equal to a similarly priced power cruiser.
The cabin space is voluminous compared to motor cruisers of the same
length, though buried below deck and not well appointed stock.
The power cruiser aspect is what got me interested in the Mac in the
first place, when I realized that if I went with the Carolina Skiff my
sense of gas economy and no need for speed would have me running
it off plane. So in considering economical hull types I reached the
Mac, which might be called a semi-displacement hull, and has many
advantages over the Carolina Skiff in my eyes, though it's 8-10k more.
That's where I am now, compromised. And it's fun enough.
I've worn this subject out for now, and other facts are intervening.
Was going to Punta Gorda first week of April and try out some boats,
but I've been offered a six month contract that will probably draw me
out of retirement, which is good and bad.
Bad because I don't like work, good because I can get more boat.
Since in six months I might be too old to handle sail and have more
money too, that RF246 might look sweeter yet.
If I'm stuck here I'll call some sailing contacts and maybe crew on
Lake Michigan some weekends this summer to get a better picture.
Gosh, I hope I don't get seasick. That'll screw things up real good.

--Vic