Larry wrote....
 

On 9 Mar 2007 16:19:58 -0800, "tlindly" wrote:

On Mar 9, 11:26 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:

will ever know. Maybe Bin Laden was in one of them. Again, we'll never know.

No, that wasn't him. I just saw him heading south on the 101
yesterday during
commuter hours. mid 80's volvo, dark. Careful, he doesn't use his
turn signals
when changing lanes...

My God!

I'd like to say that I'm really glad that I am not a citizen of the
land of the free where during my last visit enroute back to my boat
someone informed me that it was the only country in the world with
democracy, freedom of speech and freedom to pursue happiness.

I can't because I may be accused of being anti-American.

I think I prefer living where we have a despotic parlimentary two
party government headed nominally by the tyranical Queen of England; a
country that the US senate debated sending in troops when we elected a
labour "socialist" party in the 1930s; where we don't worship the
flag; where education and medical care is free for all and it is
illegal to catch a fish (schnapper) less than a foot long.

I guess that's why so many Americans are retiring there.

I'd like to say all of this but I'll hold my tongue out of respect for
the single American I met during 5 days who knew where New Zealand is
and that it wasn't south of Ireland nor up by Oregon.

Peter

Larry wrote....
 

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 21:12:30 -0600, Don W
wrote:


I guess that's why so many Americans are retiring there.

I'd like to say all of this but I'll hold my tongue out of respect for
the single American I met during 5 days who knew where New Zealand is
and that it wasn't south of Ireland nor up by Oregon.

Peter

Hey Peter,

Its not really as bad as some people are making it
out. I'll bet everything ends up working out just
fine. If not, I'll join you down in Maori
land--at least during the summers ;-)

Don W.

Hi Don,
You're welcome any time but you may miss the paranoia and general
rudeness of some of your border control officials, or those security
people roped in to fill a gap. You won't be shouted at "I said. Remove
your jacket!!" and other such rudenesses I have seen directed at your
own citizens. You will probably think the Immigration or Customs
officers want a tip when they call you "Sir". You may miss the Police
not carrying guns or sidearms or even a baton.

I know that it's not as bad as all that. I have travelled a little in
the States on several occasions and generally met nothing but very
friendly people and kind and helpful policemen. I got lost driving in
Providence, Rhode Island on my way back to Boston from Mystic Seaport
once and got invited home for dinner by one of a pair of policemen.

The growth of the siege mentality saddens me though, especially when
one realises that it does not make America safer and that Americans
(and Australians) have willing given away rights and freedoms that
previously they would have vigorously defended. Thomas Jefferson comes
to mind with his "Those who give up freedom in order to gain security
shall have, nor do they deserve, neither".

Perhaps Larry may be right. The blowing up of the Maine in 1898 to
forment the Spanish-American War comes to mind. History is full of
governments who burnt their own Reichstag.

I actually haven't been back to N.Z. since we sailed away in '96 and
live between Sydney, Australia and Malaysia where I work for Marine
Customs. There, they don't bother with yachts. The only time I stopped
a yacht was to hail it from the flying bridge of a 32 metre patrol
boat as I thought it was a friend. No paperwork, no inspections. Just
anchor or moor and wander up to Immigration. At the Johor Bahru base
there is even a pontoon with water supplied for yachtees to tie up
their dinghies securely (24 hour armed guard) whilst they walk five
minutes to the causeway bus link to Singapore. You can leave your
yacht in the country as long as you like.

The main border protection tasks are to stop smuggling of heroin (from
golden triangle to the West - automatic death penalty), cigarettes
from Indonesia and other dutiable items and illegal immigrants,
especially young children for the sex trade. Prevention of the piracy
and theft of big ships in the Malacca Straits is also a major part of
the role. To do this, new patrol boats have been built in various
sizes such as 17 metre, 2,500 HP turbo charged diesels that do over 55
knots armed with GPMGs. To zoom around in one of these (especially
with air-con) after doing 5 knots all day in a sailboat is simply
divine.

Sorry, I digress

cheers
Peter

Larry wrote....
 

In the thread "the beginning of the end" Larry wrote:

If I leave the country and come back, any other way, I'm inspected by
border agents....plane, train, car....but not yacht. We leave Florida
and go 250 miles to catch the Gulf Stream. We drop out of the stream 90
miles S of Charleston and sail into Charleston Harbor. We are never
stopped, never questioned, never challenged...even by calling us on the
radio. CG can't find us if we're in trouble without our 406 EPIRB
lighting their way, so I know they haven't been tracking us on some
sophisticated satellite system the military runs or they could. When we
sail up the Charleston Jetties in the ship channel from sea, we never
see
anyone! We could BE anyone. The boat has no positive identifying
markers of any kind. It says, "Lionheart - Atlanta, GA" across the
stern
but we could have had that painted on her while they loaded her
thermonuclear device into the V-berth in (pick any port).

They really DO have a point. The Mexican border isn't anywhere NEAR as
open as the South Carolina Coast! Any boat from anywhere can come
ashore, even right up the main shipping channel into Charleston and
NOONE
IS TRACKING THEM! NADA! There's no picket ships at the 3-mile limit, a
really ABSURD edge of the US waters, when it should be 200 miles and
HEAVILY defended from all intruders, foreign and domestic. I could set
off a hydrogen bomb in INTERNATIONAL waters 3-miles off NYC, out of the
jurisdiction of the US Gummit by its own stupidity and make the WTC
inside job look like a pittance! The crater from a BIG bomb is 5 miles
across....inland to New Jersey! How stupid is that?

The USA needs shoreline RADAR and SOSUS and must force EVERY vessel that
leaves/enters the 200 mile exclusion zone to be fully transponding
AIS....JUST LIKE THE AIRPLANES squawk IFF. Hell, you could dock the
bomb
8 miles up the Ashley River in front of my house, and be 800 yards from
the main gate of the Charleston Air Force Base and NOONE WOULD KNOW OR
SEEM TO CARE YOU WERE THERE.

Of course, this assumes America is under attack from WITHOUT, which it
was not. America was attacked from WITHIN, by its own government. 9-11
wasn't the first time or the first hairbrained scenario to come from the
isolated Pentagon stupidity machine.....set to blow up bogus airliners
over Cuba to coerce Americans into a pre-emptive invasion against
Castro....remember? If W and the NeoCons had been in that seat, instead
of a dove Democrat, Cuba would be like Beirut, today.

Larry
--
CAUTION - STAY AWAY FROM THE HIGHLY RADIOACTIVE US/MEXICAN BORDER.
(after my plan to dump all nuclear waste 1 mile inland from it.)

I tried to post a reply four different times and none of them would
post. I did a test and my server is working just fine but the reply to
the above post won't come through.

Could it be Echelon is intercepting or blocking all replys because of so
many "key words" in the message. So, I'm starting a new thread. Let's
see if anybody can reply to this one.

Here's my reply to Larry that I posted four times and it was lost or
blocked. Hmmmm
will it work this way???

REPLY: You were doing OK until you regurgitated the above pabulum. Then
you
started sounding like a typical liberal wack job nut case. Twilight Zone
brain-dead moron material. Do do do do, do do do do, do do do do...

The point is don't harass American citizens. Put the emphasis on
illegals. And you don't need passports to determine if somebody is an
American Citizen. There's already the Big Brother computer with just
about every detail of your life in it. I recently got a T-Mobile cell
phone and they said they had to check real good so nobody could do the
identity fraud thing in somebody's else's name. The transferred me to
another dept. all within one minute and the other dept. asked me about
six questions like what make and color was my car, where did my oldest
brother's wife work, in which state was I born, a multiple choice of
companies I worked for, etc. Stuff no imposter could answer. If a phone
company can do it on a minutes notice to verify an identity surely the
federal govt. can do as well or better.

And lose the conspiracy crap, Larry. You sound sensible so why believe
conspiracy crap that has no proof whatsoever?

Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote....
 

On Mar 9, 11:26 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:

will ever know. Maybe Bin Laden was in one of them. Again, we'll never know.

No, that wasn't him. I just saw him heading south on the 101
yesterday during
commuter hours. mid 80's volvo, dark. Careful, he doesn't use his
turn signals
when changing lanes...

Larry wrote....
 

Yah right. Go ahead and believe your nutcase explanations. But at least
ask yourself one thing. Where is the aircraft and where are the
pasengers and crew? Just vanished into thin air? Lost in the Bermuda
triangle? Ha ah ah a ha hah ha hha h ah hahaha!

I have a personal friend who saw with his own eyes the airliner strike
the Pentagon. It flew right over his building and when he heard the very
loud scream of the jet engines he looked out a window. He saw it from
the rear quarter; tail, wings and all striking the Pentagon in a big
cloud of dust, smoke and fire. So, go ahead believe what you will. It'll
make you happy and it won't change the facts. You nut jobs have to have
something weird to believe in so it might as well be that.

Wilbur Hubbard


Gentlemen,
Is it just possible that people can have their say, refute or rebut
information and arguments in a non-derisive manner without resorting
to abusive language.

Surely in this civilised world with all its education and
sophistication it is not necessary to belittle someone with whom one
does not agree. I may or may not agree with such as Larry but I will
defend his right to freely express his views with hindrance. Part of
the right to freedom of speech is to be allowed to have one's say. If
one kept quiet through fear of potential abuse and ridicule then one
would be effectively denied that freedom to speak. Bullying tactics
have no place when seeking the truth. Such as Kepler, Da Vinci,
Galileo and others will attest to this. It is not that long ago the
The Church and learned men believed firmly in a flat earth even though
Eritosthenes of Alexandria proved it to be not and even measured its
diameter remarkably accurately in Ptolemaic Egypt.

cheers
Peter

Larry wrote....
 

Nothing to do with boating but......,

If all good people were clever,
and all clever people were good,
the world would be nicer than ever,
I thought that it possibly could.
But, somehow it is seldom or never,
that the two get along as they should,
for the good are so cruel to the clever,
and the clever so harsh to the good

Mary Wordsworth
(sister of Bill who ponced through the bloody daffidols)

Larry wrote....
 

Peter Hendra wrote:

My God!

I'd like to say that I'm really glad that I am not a citizen of the
land of the free where during my last visit enroute back to my boat
someone informed me that it was the only country in the world with
democracy, freedom of speech and freedom to pursue happiness.

I can't because I may be accused of being anti-American.

I think I prefer living where we have a despotic parlimentary two
party government headed nominally by the tyranical Queen of England; a
country that the US senate debated sending in troops when we elected a
labour "socialist" party in the 1930s; where we don't worship the
flag; where education and medical care is free for all and it is
illegal to catch a fish (schnapper) less than a foot long.

I guess that's why so many Americans are retiring there.

I'd like to say all of this but I'll hold my tongue out of respect for
the single American I met during 5 days who knew where New Zealand is
and that it wasn't south of Ireland nor up by Oregon.

Peter

Hey Peter,

Its not really as bad as some people are making it
out. I'll bet everything ends up working out just
fine. If not, I'll join you down in Maori
land--at least during the summers ;-)

Don W.

Larry wrote....
 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:04:55 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
news:4KydnSC63OcUbG_YnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d@centurytel. net...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

No, you are incorrect. There comes a point when any sane man cannot
let wack job nutcases have a say on an equal footing with the factual
and the sensible.

Should that Islamic fascist, Ahmadenijad, who says the holocaust
never happened and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the
map, be given equal time with legitimate historians who don't deny
the holocaust? Hell no! People like that should be shouted down and
have rotten vegetable tossed in their faces. The more you let people
spout their total nonsense on equal footing with reasonable
explanations the more you lend them credence. The more you lower the
bar for the reasonable and the sensible. I believe in letting
everybody have their say. But, I also believe what people say should
have consequences. If you say something stupid and obnoxious enough
then, if somebody after hearing you out decides to punch your right
in the nose, you learn real fast that actions have consequences and
talking crap might just get you crapped on. You've heard the old
saying that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes accepted
fact? That's the trouble with allowing wack job conspiracists to
remain unchallenged. You MUST not only challenge their flaky ideas
but you must point out that they cannot think clearly either. You
must show their inferior intellects are not capable of rational
thought. In other words their ideas reveal their brain function.
Dumb, stupid conspiracy ideas = dumb, stupid conspiracy brain.

The widespread belief in human caused global warming is a good
example of what happens when you let a bunch of nutjobs spout their
nonsense ad nausea over a period of years without challenge. It
becomes a religion. A totally irrational religion based on belief and
not on facts. That's why it's important not only to refute nonsense
but identify individuals who spout nonsense as fact as defective
mentally.

Wilbur Hubbard

So you endorse the initiation of physical violence against people who
say things you find overtly offensive?


Yes! It's a time-honored tradition.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sounds like current American foreign policy to me.

Wait, Why doesn't one of you punch Mr Bush on the nose given this
logic? Every news item Ii see him on has him stating "weapons of mass
destruction" when they haven't found any and "War on terrorism in
Iraq" when Al Khaida and Sadam were sworn enemies and his terrorism
was aimed solely as his own citizens.

cheers,
"Waiting for Wilbur"
Peter

Larry wrote....
 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:34:11 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:



And Mr. B's an example of a total hypocrite. Rather than read, listen
and argue and perhaps toss a rotten tomato if highly offended, this Rube
won't even listen. His is a closed mind. And notice the happy reference
to "Killfile". In other words, it's not good enough to just walk away
and not listen he must kill (even if figuratively) the speaker. And to
carry it one step further he happily instructs others to kill as well.
This is exactly the kind of pompous, creepy nut case to whom I refer. He
advocates peace, harmony and non-violence on one hand yet he happily
kills on the other.

How can an individual like this live with himself? Clearly it's only by
sticking his head in the sand to somewhat rid his senses of the reek
that emanates from his foul, fetid frame of mind.

Wilbur Hubbard

forgive me, I should have remembered....

When an ass brays, one does not have to bray back

Larry wrote....
 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:08:04 GMT, Don W
wrote:



Peter, I've been in and out of the US many times
since 9/11 and have not personally witnessed the
type of behavior you are refering to. I don't
doubt that it occured, but it was an isolated
incident, and not the norm.


The USA is still mostly that way. We are just
getting a lot more bad press these days.


I think history will show that the security
changes are temporary. There were similar things
done during WWII, but they stopped as soon as the
war ended. Unfortunately, we are _really_ at war
at present although not in a traditional war with
another nation state. Furthermore, our adversary
has shown itself to favor attacks on unprotected
civilians.

It seems your mind is made up that the Maine was
blown up by the US Government to give it an excuse
to intervene in Cuba. Doing a little bit of
Google research, it appears that your conclusion
is controversial, and not well supported by the
evidence.

Unlike Herr Hitler, or even present day Hugo
Chavez, there has been no attempt in the USA to
change the constitution in a "one-off" election to
allow a single party to hold power continually.
In fact, the Republican party has now lost control
of both houses of congress, and the Democrats are
in control. The political story of this
week--Congressional hearings on FBI abuses of
power during the last several years. The pendulum
is swinging back the other direction even as we
write. Unlike a lot of people, I have faith that
our system will correct itself.

Sounds great. That is the way it should be.
Fortunately, Singapore and Australia have not been
directly attacked, and so have not developed
"paranoia" yet.



Regards,

Don W.

Hi Don,

I do so hope that you are right that the pendalum is swinging back.
The events of the past few years are rather scary as viewed from the
outside. It would be sad if the great American experiment were to end
up just as that - an experiment. I have always been an admirer of what
the US purports to stand for and though I would not really care to
live there, it is a great place to visit.

People are generally the same world wide, and the US is no exception,
but I was recently priviledged to meet a real gem who runs a
ramshackle restaurant - "Joanie's Place" converted from an old garage
on the east-west road through the Everglades. Joanie is in her late
60s and makes the most fantastic key lime pie and fried green tomatos
amongst other culinary delights. She was kind enough to show me how to
cook them and give me some recipes. I would prefer to think of
Americans as such as Joanie, the National Park rangers, the helpful
people in the motels and the many others who went out of their way to
help and talk to a stranger. Forget the stars and stripes, it flies
above used car lots which sort of desecrates it in a way. Key Lime Pie
(with whipped cream of course) should be your national emblem and Mark
Twain (I seldom meet an American who has read him excepting maybe "Tom
Sawyer"), Ernest Hemmingway, O Henry and a few such should be elected
to your senate as senior statesmen.

It is unfortunate that you are all getting tarred by the same bad
press.

By the way, we in South East Asia also have to guard against terrorism
including both fundamental Christian and Islamic groups such as in
Indonesia. However, I would like to say that killing non-combatants is
strictly prohibited by the Koran and is thus un-Islamic and abhorant
to most Moslems of my aquaintance. You may only make war on those who
bear arms against you. The Turkish armies for example carried a small
Koran tied to their battle standards so that the Law of the Koran
would enter conquered cities before them.

cheers
Peter

Larry wrote....
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
:

The point is don't harass American citizens.

How do I tell which plastic sailboat is "American citizens" and which is
not? How do I know where they've been and what they've been doing? Does
"Lionheart - Atlanta GA" on the stern positively identify my boat as
"American" and a really nice guy or maybe the yacht club burgee flying
from the yardarm?

Nope...Charleston Harbor is more wide open than the Mexican Border in
Arizona. Arizona has cursory border guards. Charleston has nothing.

The LEAST we can do is to string some radiation detectors across the
harbor entrance that will pick up the neutrons in the belly of some
tanker, sounding the alarm, probably too late. Would that be OK? We
JUST GOT nuke detectors at the container port....5 YEARS after 9-11! The
trucks drive over it leaving the port, I understand.

I'm really sorry your head is buried in the nationalist sand over 9-11.
If you'll open your eyes, just a tiny bit, the evidence that couldn't be
hidden is overwhelming. Pancaking floor collapses are SLOW, not freefall
speed, and the buildings FALL OVER, not collapse down like a demolition
at freefall speeds in seconds from 110 stories up. Pancaking buildings
look like pancaked buildings....without the pyroclastic outflow over
several square miles of blasted concrete dust. Pancaking buildings don't
have MOLTEN STEEL underground that's thousands of degrees hot for WEEKS
or MONTHS after the pancake collapse. Smoke doesn't billow up from their
basements from underground explosions recorded on a wide range of
earthquake monitoring equipment miles and miles away....over and over.

If a HUGE airliner crashes into a building that is TALLER than the
building with HUGE engines, 9000 pounds of human body parts, fire
retardant seats, titanium engines, massive wheels, tail, 400' wingspan,
it DOESN'T fit through a 16' hole next to a NO PARKING ANY TIME sign to
get into the building then JUST VANISH. It's thousands of gallons of
kerosene doesn't EXPLODE ON IMPACT, but burns for hours or DAYS, slowly,
with thousands of cubic yards of BLACK SMOKE because its KEROSENE, not
explosives at all. The hole had pictures the bureaucrats couldn't
confiscate like they tried all the videos. What are they hiding? What
are they hiding under the blue tarp the air force carried off, in DIRECT
violation of every forensic evidence law ever written. Why no
investigations? Why no metallurgy to see "why"? Because they KNEW
why....THERMITE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx1GLqvBO8
Here, start here. You need a lot of education....

Larry wrote....
 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:28:46 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Larry" wrote in message
.. .
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
news:SNBIh.28
:

that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf39qkvwOhU
I can't figure out why Arabs are terrified of Isreali terrorists....or
why
they hate them....

Terrorists because Israel has nuclear weapons? If you need some bogus
youtube video to convince you Israel has nuclear weapons then you've
been sleeping for the last 20 years. Everybody with half a brain knows
Israel is a nuclear power and has been for quite some time. Israel
probably is the fifth or sixth leading nuclear power in the world. But,
ask yourself have they ever threatened to wipe any other country off the
face of the map? No. Has the U.S. ever threatened such. No. Have any
number of Islamic fascists threatened to. Yes, indeed. And they continue
their threats almost daily.

So, go ahead side with the wrong side. It only makes your other
conspiracy crap all the easier to dismiss. This is what I love about
liberal wackos. Give them plenty of rope and they hang themselves every
time. Bwaaahahahahahhahahahahah! But, honestly, Larry. You seem to have
some grounded ideas elsewise. But you've clearly been spending too much
time on liberal conspiracy blogs. Keep it up and you'll be completely
over the top and you'll end up ranting, raving and puffing with the
likes of Ted Kennedy and Al Gore against your own country.


Wilbur Hubbard

My Dear Wilbur,
Thank you for disclosing your fanatical hatred of Islam.

As a Moslem, which by your definition makes me a fascist and a
terrorist, start looking over your shoulder because I might decide to
come and get you.

Isn't that what we do?

Your name is now on the list which should give you some cause for your
irrational phobias and obvious bitterness towards life. Perhaps if you
hadn't been such a miserable and negative SOB then your wife would not
have left you and your kids might care to visit.

Have a wonderful day

Love
Mohammed Panaeyotis ibn Hendra

Larry wrote....
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
:

The point is don't harass American citizens.

How do I tell which plastic sailboat is "American citizens" and which
is
not? How do I know where they've been and what they've been doing?
Does
"Lionheart - Atlanta GA" on the stern positively identify my boat as
"American" and a really nice guy or maybe the yacht club burgee flying
from the yardarm?

The govt. could go alongside a yacht with a well-fendered launch and
request ID. A registration and driver's licence should be plenty enough
to establish legitamacy. Instead, they now want you to dock or anchor
your boat somewhere and within 24 hours present yourself and crew to a
custom's and immigration office which is often many miles away. Dumb and
nothing but harassment.


Nope...Charleston Harbor is more wide open than the Mexican Border in
Arizona. Arizona has cursory border guards. Charleston has nothing.

So what! That's the way it should be. The entire coastline of the US
cannot be made secure in every way.


The LEAST we can do is to string some radiation detectors across the
harbor entrance that will pick up the neutrons in the belly of some
tanker, sounding the alarm, probably too late. Would that be OK? We
JUST GOT nuke detectors at the container port....5 YEARS after 9-11!
The
trucks drive over it leaving the port, I understand.

The whole myth about suitcase nukes is just that - a myth. You sure
worry about some way out things, there Larry. More realistic would be to
worry about the importation of biologicals and chemicals like sarin.

I'm really sorry your head is buried in the nationalist sand over
9-11.
If you'll open your eyes, just a tiny bit, the evidence that couldn't
be
hidden is overwhelming. Pancaking floor collapses are SLOW, not
freefall
speed,

Looked pretty slow to me. The building had a central core and outer
latticework of steel. You don't accelerate that huge mass to freefall
speeds just like that even without the friction. Hey genius, ever hear
of inertia?

and the buildings FALL OVER, not collapse down like a demolition
at freefall speeds in seconds from 110 stories up.

Sorry, but you claim the buildings fell at freefall speeds. Freefall is
straight down. Things don't fall over sideways in freefall. They go
straight down. A bit of inconsistency creeping into your delusions
there, Larry?

Pancaking buildings
look like pancaked buildings....without the pyroclastic outflow over
several square miles of blasted concrete dust. Pancaking buildings
don't
have MOLTEN STEEL underground that's thousands of degrees hot for
WEEKS
or MONTHS after the pancake collapse. Smoke doesn't billow up from
their
basements from underground explosions recorded on a wide range of
earthquake monitoring equipment miles and miles away....over and over.

Do you know how many gallons of jet fuel was introduced into those
buildings? Do you know how many gallons of diesel fuel were stored in
tanks in the basements of the WTC? Apparently not.


If a HUGE airliner crashes into a building that is TALLER than the
building with HUGE engines, 9000 pounds of human body parts, fire
retardant seats, titanium engines, massive wheels, tail, 400'
wingspan,
it DOESN'T fit through a 16' hole next to a NO PARKING ANY TIME sign
to
get into the building then JUST VANISH.


So, now you're a ballistics expert. Ha ha! I assume you're talking about
the Pentagon now. You conspiracy theorists are too stupid to understand
an airliner is mostly space. It looks like a solid object but it is a
thin skin of combustable aluminum mostly, yes even the framing. When
that hits a reinforced concrete wall at around 600mph it begins to crush
at the nose like a beer can. Because the force is very great it knocks a
small hole in the wall. The re-bar keeps the hole from becoming very
large. When the aircraft crushed all the way back to the wing roots the
wings fold back along the fuselage and enter the hole lenghtwise, not
sideways as you physics challenged conspiracy theorists envision. As for
just vanishing, that's another myth. Plenty of solid parts were
recovered.

It's thousands of gallons of
kerosene doesn't EXPLODE ON IMPACT, but burns for hours or DAYS,
slowly,
with thousands of cubic yards of BLACK SMOKE because its KEROSENE, not
explosives at all.

Oh, so you believe that for the Pentagon but you object to that in the
case of the WTC. Hmmm, yet more inconsistency.

The hole had pictures the bureaucrats couldn't
confiscate like they tried all the videos. What are they hiding?
What
are they hiding under the blue tarp the air force carried off, in
DIRECT
violation of every forensic evidence law ever written. Why no
investigations? Why no metallurgy to see "why"? Because they KNEW
why....THERMITE.

Yah right. Go ahead and believe your nutcase explanations. But at least
ask yourself one thing. Where is the aircraft and where are the
pasengers and crew? Just vanished into thin air? Lost in the Bermuda
triangle? Ha ah ah a ha hah ha hha h ah hahaha!

I have a personal friend who saw with his own eyes the airliner strike
the Pentagon. It flew right over his building and when he heard the very
loud scream of the jet engines he looked out a window. He saw it from
the rear quarter; tail, wings and all striking the Pentagon in a big
cloud of dust, smoke and fire. So, go ahead believe what you will. It'll
make you happy and it won't change the facts. You nut jobs have to have
something weird to believe in so it might as well be that.

Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote....
 

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...

Yah right. Go ahead and believe your nutcase explanations. But at
least
ask yourself one thing. Where is the aircraft and where are the
pasengers and crew? Just vanished into thin air? Lost in the Bermuda
triangle? Ha ah ah a ha hah ha hha h ah hahaha!

I have a personal friend who saw with his own eyes the airliner strike
the Pentagon. It flew right over his building and when he heard the
very
loud scream of the jet engines he looked out a window. He saw it from
the rear quarter; tail, wings and all striking the Pentagon in a big
cloud of dust, smoke and fire. So, go ahead believe what you will.
It'll
make you happy and it won't change the facts. You nut jobs have to
have
something weird to believe in so it might as well be that.

Wilbur Hubbard


Gentlemen,
Is it just possible that people can have their say, refute or rebut
information and arguments in a non-derisive manner without resorting
to abusive language.

Surely in this civilised world with all its education and
sophistication it is not necessary to belittle someone with whom one
does not agree. I may or may not agree with such as Larry but I will
defend his right to freely express his views with hindrance. Part of
the right to freedom of speech is to be allowed to have one's say. If
one kept quiet through fear of potential abuse and ridicule then one
would be effectively denied that freedom to speak. Bullying tactics
have no place when seeking the truth. Such as Kepler, Da Vinci,
Galileo and others will attest to this. It is not that long ago the
The Church and learned men believed firmly in a flat earth even though
Eritosthenes of Alexandria proved it to be not and even measured its
diameter remarkably accurately in Ptolemaic Egypt.

cheers
Peter

No, you are incorrect. There comes a point when any sane man cannot let
wack job nutcases have a say on an equal footing with the factual and
the sensible.

Should that Islamic fascist, Ahmadenijad, who says the holocaust never
happened and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map, be
given equal time with legitimate historians who don't deny the
holocaust? Hell no! People like that should be shouted down and have
rotten vegetable tossed in their faces. The more you let people spout
their total nonsense on equal footing with reasonable explanations the
more you lend them credence. The more you lower the bar for the
reasonable and the sensible. I believe in letting everybody have their
say. But, I also believe what people say should have consequences. If
you say something stupid and obnoxious enough then, if somebody after
hearing you out decides to punch your right in the nose, you learn real
fast that actions have consequences and talking crap might just get you
crapped on. You've heard the old saying that if you repeat a lie often
enough it becomes accepted fact? That's the trouble with allowing wack
job conspiracists to remain unchallenged. You MUST not only challenge
their flaky ideas but you must point out that they cannot think clearly
either. You must show their inferior intellects are not capable of
rational thought. In other words their ideas reveal their brain
function. Dumb, stupid conspiracy ideas = dumb, stupid conspiracy
brain.

The widespread belief in human caused global warming is a good example
of what happens when you let a bunch of nutjobs spout their nonsense ad
nausea over a period of years without challenge. It becomes a religion.
A totally irrational religion based on belief and not on facts. That's
why it's important not only to refute nonsense but identify individuals
who spout nonsense as fact as defective mentally.

Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote....
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

No, you are incorrect. There comes a point when any sane man cannot let
wack job nutcases have a say on an equal footing with the factual and the
sensible.

Should that Islamic fascist, Ahmadenijad, who says the holocaust never
happened and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map, be given
equal time with legitimate historians who don't deny the holocaust? Hell
no! People like that should be shouted down and have rotten vegetable
tossed in their faces. The more you let people spout their total nonsense
on equal footing with reasonable explanations the more you lend them
credence. The more you lower the bar for the reasonable and the sensible.
I believe in letting everybody have their say. But, I also believe what
people say should have consequences. If you say something stupid and
obnoxious enough then, if somebody after hearing you out decides to punch
your right in the nose, you learn real fast that actions have consequences
and talking crap might just get you crapped on. You've heard the old
saying that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes accepted fact?
That's the trouble with allowing wack job conspiracists to remain
unchallenged. You MUST not only challenge their flaky ideas but you must
point out that they cannot think clearly either. You must show their
inferior intellects are not capable of rational thought. In other words
their ideas reveal their brain function. Dumb, stupid conspiracy ideas =
dumb, stupid conspiracy brain.

The widespread belief in human caused global warming is a good example of
what happens when you let a bunch of nutjobs spout their nonsense ad
nausea over a period of years without challenge. It becomes a religion. A
totally irrational religion based on belief and not on facts. That's why
it's important not only to refute nonsense but identify individuals who
spout nonsense as fact as defective mentally.

Wilbur Hubbard

So you endorse the initiation of physical violence against people who say
things you find overtly offensive?

Larry wrote....
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

No, you are incorrect. There comes a point when any sane man cannot
let wack job nutcases have a say on an equal footing with the factual
and the sensible.

Should that Islamic fascist, Ahmadenijad, who says the holocaust
never happened and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the
map, be given equal time with legitimate historians who don't deny
the holocaust? Hell no! People like that should be shouted down and
have rotten vegetable tossed in their faces. The more you let people
spout their total nonsense on equal footing with reasonable
explanations the more you lend them credence. The more you lower the
bar for the reasonable and the sensible. I believe in letting
everybody have their say. But, I also believe what people say should
have consequences. If you say something stupid and obnoxious enough
then, if somebody after hearing you out decides to punch your right
in the nose, you learn real fast that actions have consequences and
talking crap might just get you crapped on. You've heard the old
saying that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes accepted
fact? That's the trouble with allowing wack job conspiracists to
remain unchallenged. You MUST not only challenge their flaky ideas
but you must point out that they cannot think clearly either. You
must show their inferior intellects are not capable of rational
thought. In other words their ideas reveal their brain function.
Dumb, stupid conspiracy ideas = dumb, stupid conspiracy brain.

The widespread belief in human caused global warming is a good
example of what happens when you let a bunch of nutjobs spout their
nonsense ad nausea over a period of years without challenge. It
becomes a religion. A totally irrational religion based on belief and
not on facts. That's why it's important not only to refute nonsense
but identify individuals who spout nonsense as fact as defective
mentally.

Wilbur Hubbard

So you endorse the initiation of physical violence against people who
say things you find overtly offensive?


Yes! It's a time-honored tradition.

Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote....
 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:57:27 -0600, KLC Lewis wrote:


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

horse**** snipped for hygenic reasons

So you endorse the initiation of physical violence against people who say
things you find overtly offensive?

Of course he does, he said so several times in this last screed. This
bonehead is the poster-boy for everything wrong with America. So certain
of his certitude, his only response to the cognitive dissonance that
passes for his thought processes, is the threat of violence to coerce
those who think differently to comply with his certain view of the world.
Talk about a whack-job. Killfile this moron and move on.

Larry wrote....
 

"mr.b" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:57:27 -0600, KLC Lewis wrote:


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

horse**** snipped for hygenic reasons

So you endorse the initiation of physical violence against people who
say
things you find overtly offensive?

Of course he does, he said so several times in this last screed. This
bonehead is the poster-boy for everything wrong with America. So
certain
of his certitude, his only response to the cognitive dissonance that
passes for his thought processes, is the threat of violence to coerce
those who think differently to comply with his certain view of the
world.
Talk about a whack-job. Killfile this moron and move on.

And Mr. B's an example of a total hypocrite. Rather than read, listen
and argue and perhaps toss a rotten tomato if highly offended, this Rube
won't even listen. His is a closed mind. And notice the happy reference
to "Killfile". In other words, it's not good enough to just walk away
and not listen he must kill (even if figuratively) the speaker. And to
carry it one step further he happily instructs others to kill as well.
This is exactly the kind of pompous, creepy nut case to whom I refer. He
advocates peace, harmony and non-violence on one hand yet he happily
kills on the other.

How can an individual like this live with himself? Clearly it's only by
sticking his head in the sand to somewhat rid his senses of the reek
that emanates from his foul, fetid frame of mind.

Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote....
 

"Peter Hendra" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:04:55 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
news:4KydnSC63OcUbG_YnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d@centurytel .net...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

No, you are incorrect. There comes a point when any sane man cannot
let wack job nutcases have a say on an equal footing with the
factual
and the sensible.

Should that Islamic fascist, Ahmadenijad, who says the holocaust
never happened and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the
map, be given equal time with legitimate historians who don't deny
the holocaust? Hell no! People like that should be shouted down and
have rotten vegetable tossed in their faces. The more you let
people
spout their total nonsense on equal footing with reasonable
explanations the more you lend them credence. The more you lower
the
bar for the reasonable and the sensible. I believe in letting
everybody have their say. But, I also believe what people say
should
have consequences. If you say something stupid and obnoxious enough
then, if somebody after hearing you out decides to punch your right
in the nose, you learn real fast that actions have consequences and
talking crap might just get you crapped on. You've heard the old
saying that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes accepted
fact? That's the trouble with allowing wack job conspiracists to
remain unchallenged. You MUST not only challenge their flaky ideas
but you must point out that they cannot think clearly either. You
must show their inferior intellects are not capable of rational
thought. In other words their ideas reveal their brain function.
Dumb, stupid conspiracy ideas = dumb, stupid conspiracy brain.

The widespread belief in human caused global warming is a good
example of what happens when you let a bunch of nutjobs spout their
nonsense ad nausea over a period of years without challenge. It
becomes a religion. A totally irrational religion based on belief
and
not on facts. That's why it's important not only to refute nonsense
but identify individuals who spout nonsense as fact as defective
mentally.

Wilbur Hubbard

So you endorse the initiation of physical violence against people
who
say things you find overtly offensive?


Yes! It's a time-honored tradition.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sounds like current American foreign policy to me.

Wait, Why doesn't one of you punch Mr Bush on the nose given this
logic? Every news item Ii see him on has him stating "weapons of mass
destruction" when they haven't found any and "War on terrorism in
Iraq" when Al Khaida and Sadam were sworn enemies and his terrorism
was aimed solely as his own citizens.


Some people say things that are offensive enough to inspire digital
tomato throwing while you, on the other hand, just repeat things that
are merely humorous in their decrepitude.

Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote....
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...


bs deleted


So you endorse the initiation of physical violence against people who say
things you find overtly offensive?


Yes, he does. He's a troll and is only interested in disruption. Jus ignore
im.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Larry wrote....
 

Peter Hendra wrote:
Hey Peter,

Its not really as bad as some people are making it
out. I'll bet everything ends up working out just
fine. If not, I'll join you down in Maori
land--at least during the summers ;-)

Don W.


Hi Don,
You're welcome any time but you may miss the paranoia and general
rudeness of some of your border control officials, or those security
people roped in to fill a gap. You won't be shouted at "I said. Remove
your jacket!!" and other such rudenesses I have seen directed at your
own citizens. You will probably think the Immigration or Customs
officers want a tip when they call you "Sir". You may miss the Police
not carrying guns or sidearms or even a baton.

Peter, I've been in and out of the US many times
since 9/11 and have not personally witnessed the
type of behavior you are refering to. I don't
doubt that it occured, but it was an isolated
incident, and not the norm.

I know that it's not as bad as all that. I have travelled a little in
the States on several occasions and generally met nothing but very
friendly people and kind and helpful policemen. I got lost driving in
Providence, Rhode Island on my way back to Boston from Mystic Seaport
once and got invited home for dinner by one of a pair of policemen.

The USA is still mostly that way. We are just
getting a lot more bad press these days.

The growth of the siege mentality saddens me though, especially when
one realises that it does not make America safer and that Americans
(and Australians) have willing given away rights and freedoms that
previously they would have vigorously defended. Thomas Jefferson comes
to mind with his "Those who give up freedom in order to gain security
shall have, nor do they deserve, neither".

I think history will show that the security
changes are temporary. There were similar things
done during WWII, but they stopped as soon as the
war ended. Unfortunately, we are _really_ at war
at present although not in a traditional war with
another nation state. Furthermore, our adversary
has shown itself to favor attacks on unprotected
civilians.

Perhaps Larry may be right. The blowing up of the Maine in 1898 to
forment the Spanish-American War comes to mind. History is full of
governments who burnt their own Reichstag.

It seems your mind is made up that the Maine was
blown up by the US Government to give it an excuse
to intervene in Cuba. Doing a little bit of
Google research, it appears that your conclusion
is controversial, and not well supported by the
evidence.

Unlike Herr Hitler, or even present day Hugo
Chavez, there has been no attempt in the USA to
change the constitution in a "one-off" election to
allow a single party to hold power continually.
In fact, the Republican party has now lost control
of both houses of congress, and the Democrats are
in control. The political story of this
week--Congressional hearings on FBI abuses of
power during the last several years. The pendulum
is swinging back the other direction even as we
write. Unlike a lot of people, I have faith that
our system will correct itself.

I actually haven't been back to N.Z. since we sailed away in '96 and
live between Sydney, Australia and Malaysia where I work for Marine
Customs. There, they don't bother with yachts. The only time I stopped
a yacht was to hail it from the flying bridge of a 32 metre patrol
boat as I thought it was a friend. No paperwork, no inspections. Just
anchor or moor and wander up to Immigration. At the Johor Bahru base
there is even a pontoon with water supplied for yachtees to tie up
their dinghies securely (24 hour armed guard) whilst they walk five
minutes to the causeway bus link to Singapore. You can leave your
yacht in the country as long as you like.

Sounds great. That is the way it should be.
Fortunately, Singapore and Australia have not been
directly attacked, and so have not developed
"paranoia" yet.

The main border protection tasks are to stop smuggling of heroin (from
golden triangle to the West - automatic death penalty), cigarettes
from Indonesia and other dutiable items and illegal immigrants,
especially young children for the sex trade. Prevention of the piracy
and theft of big ships in the Malacca Straits is also a major part of
the role. To do this, new patrol boats have been built in various
sizes such as 17 metre, 2,500 HP turbo charged diesels that do over 55
knots armed with GPMGs. To zoom around in one of these (especially
with air-con) after doing 5 knots all day in a sailboat is simply
divine.

Sounds like fun.

cheers
Peter

Regards,

Don W.

Larry wrote....
 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:40:13 -0600, Don W
wrote:



Peter Hendra wrote:

wrote:
Terrorists because Israel has nuclear weapons? If you need some bogus
youtube video to convince you Israel has nuclear weapons then you've
been sleeping for the last 20 years. Everybody with half a brain knows
Israel is a nuclear power and has been for quite some time. Israel
probably is the fifth or sixth leading nuclear power in the world. But,
ask yourself have they ever threatened to wipe any other country off the
face of the map? No. Has the U.S. ever threatened such. No. Have any
number of Islamic fascists threatened to. Yes, indeed. And they continue
their threats almost daily.

So, go ahead side with the wrong side. It only makes your other
conspiracy crap all the easier to dismiss. This is what I love about
liberal wackos. Give them plenty of rope and they hang themselves every
time. Bwaaahahahahahhahahahahah! But, honestly, Larry. You seem to have
some grounded ideas elsewise. But you've clearly been spending too much
time on liberal conspiracy blogs. Keep it up and you'll be completely
over the top and you'll end up ranting, raving and puffing with the
likes of Ted Kennedy and Al Gore against your own country.


Wilbur Hubbard


My Dear Wilbur,
Thank you for disclosing your fanatical hatred of Islam.

I don't see anything in what he wrote that sounds
like fanaticism or hatred. Perhaps you were upset
by his term "Islamic fascists". Do you think that
all Moslems are good and that none are fascists?

As a Moslem, which by your definition makes me a fascist and a
terrorist, start looking over your shoulder because I might decide to
come and get you.

You are putting words in his mouth. He did not
say that all moslems are fascists.

Also, it is a well known fact that the president
of Iran has publicly stated several times that
Israel has no right to exist and should be wiped
off the world map. This sounds like he wants to
start a war--which by the way would surely turn
into a nuclear war if Israel felt its existence
were really threatened.

Actually, what you wrote also sounds threatening
from my perspective. You told him to "start
looking over his shoulder" which should be
construed as a threat. Is it common for moslems
to threaten when they are upset? It is actually
illegal here in the US to threaten someone. It is
called "assault".

Isn't that what we do?

I wouldn't know. A few moslems are certainly
making the religion look very bad right now.

Your name is now on the list

This is more threatening language. It makes you
look bad.

which should give you some cause for your
irrational phobias and obvious bitterness towards life. Perhaps if you
hadn't been such a miserable and negative SOB then your wife would not
have left you and your kids might care to visit.

A personal attack on one you do not know
personally. Even if he has offended you deeply,
your words are unseemly and unwise.

Have a wonderful day

Love
Mohammed Panaeyotis ibn Hendra

Love is surely in short supply in the world right
now. Perhaps now you will threaten me also?

Don W.
Don,
None of the above.

I wrote in jest to provoke the man. Wilbur, aka The Captain, is a
small man with an inferiority complex who seems to delight and gain a
reason for living by being rude and offensive to others as his own
life is sadly somewhat lacking.

Nobody I know has any truck or sympathy for terrorism of any kind and
are saddened and annoyed at the growth of terrorism and these acts of
violence against innocent people world wide regardless of their
religion with which it has little to do and is used as an excuse and
point of focus for hatred. These include Tamil terrorists in Sri
Lanka, Hindu terrorists in India, the various Islamic terrorist groups
(who I reiterate are being totally un-Islamic) and Christian
terrorists such as in Indonesia who are being equally un-Christian.

On the first anniversary of 9/11 I attended the closing ceremony of a
two week joint exercise between Indonesian and Malaysian Marine
Customs. Most present were practising Moslems though we also have in
our ranks Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus and Christians. The Director
General of Indonesian Customs called for a prayer and a five minute
silence in respect of all those who died; fathers, mothers, children,
brothers and sisters. I looked around and every man and woman had
removed their caps and bowed their heads out of respect. In a
situation such as this it was not compulsory to do so. After, there
was a sober hush as nobody spoke for quite some time. Some stood there
continuing to pray or to think about the evil that had been
perpetrated. I saw tough, ex special services men with tears in their
eyes.

What most are concerned about however, is that every Moslem gets
tarred by the brush applied to Osama bin Ladin or some extreme
ayatollah from Iran. They are not anti-American. The question I have
had asked of me by so many is "Peter, why is America against Moslems?"
They just do not understand.

The Christian terrorists or more correctly, those terrorists of
Indonesia who are Christian, engage in heroin trafficking from the
Golden Triangle to the West and the smuggling of small girls and women
from Cambodia for the sex trade in order to buy weapons. These are a
high focus of Customs work as it is a sea born trade through the
Malcca Straits. Nobody would make the mental leap to conclude from
this that all Christians are supporters of terrorism and sex with
little girls as young as 6 years old or that it has anything to do
with doctrinal tenets. It is merely politically convenient for some
Western politicians to do so in regard to Islam.

As I said, in our ranks we have several religions. What warms my heart
is that there is a wonderful tolerance between them all. During the
Hindu Devali (Hindu New Year), Chinese New Year, Ramadan and Christmas
festivals for example, families of different faiths visit each other's
homes and are respectful of their beliefs. Sometimes things get a bit
confused. My wife and son, who are nominally Christian (my
Mother-in-law is an Anglican minister) are phoned by several friends
(strict Moslems and Hindus) at midnight on Christmas Eve and wished a
"Happy Christmas" - confusing it with the Western New Year's Eve.

I have six adopted daughters (they were between 6 and 11 years old)
who were caught being smuggled from Cambodia for the sex trade. I
raise them as Buddhists, not as Moslems, because they were born into
that religion. Neither I nor anyone else have any right to make them
convert. They do however like Christian Christmas presents and
birthdays with parties and cakes with candles.

Yes, I probably did go a bit overboard with The Captain, but he never
offended me; I was just provoking him for my own entertainment. I
shouldn't have. We also should turn the other cheek.

cheers and thanks for your comments
Peter

Larry wrote....
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in news:SNBIh.28
:

that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf39qkvwOhU
I can't figure out why Arabs are terrified of Isreali terrorists....or why
they hate them....

Larry wrote....
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
news:SNBIh.28
:

that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf39qkvwOhU
I can't figure out why Arabs are terrified of Isreali terrorists....or
why
they hate them....

Terrorists because Israel has nuclear weapons? If you need some bogus
youtube video to convince you Israel has nuclear weapons then you've
been sleeping for the last 20 years. Everybody with half a brain knows
Israel is a nuclear power and has been for quite some time. Israel
probably is the fifth or sixth leading nuclear power in the world. But,
ask yourself have they ever threatened to wipe any other country off the
face of the map? No. Has the U.S. ever threatened such. No. Have any
number of Islamic fascists threatened to. Yes, indeed. And they continue
their threats almost daily.

So, go ahead side with the wrong side. It only makes your other
conspiracy crap all the easier to dismiss. This is what I love about
liberal wackos. Give them plenty of rope and they hang themselves every
time. Bwaaahahahahahhahahahahah! But, honestly, Larry. You seem to have
some grounded ideas elsewise. But you've clearly been spending too much
time on liberal conspiracy blogs. Keep it up and you'll be completely
over the top and you'll end up ranting, raving and puffing with the
likes of Ted Kennedy and Al Gore against your own country.


Wilbur Hubbard

Larry wrote....
 

Peter Hendra wrote:

By the way, we in South East Asia also have to guard against terrorism
including both fundamental Christian and Islamic groups such as in
Indonesia. However, I would like to say that killing non-combatants is
strictly prohibited by the Koran and is thus un-Islamic and abhorant
to most Moslems of my aquaintance.

It is the fanatical 10% of each religion that you
have to watch out for. Christians have had plenty
of bloody zealots as have the muslims, hindus, etc.

What is really needed in this case is for the
moderate muslim majority to stand up and fight
these apostates before they end up starting the
world conflagration that they are hoping for.

Don W.

Larry wrote....
 

Peter Hendra wrote:

wrote:
Terrorists because Israel has nuclear weapons? If you need some bogus
youtube video to convince you Israel has nuclear weapons then you've
been sleeping for the last 20 years. Everybody with half a brain knows
Israel is a nuclear power and has been for quite some time. Israel
probably is the fifth or sixth leading nuclear power in the world. But,
ask yourself have they ever threatened to wipe any other country off the
face of the map? No. Has the U.S. ever threatened such. No. Have any
number of Islamic fascists threatened to. Yes, indeed. And they continue
their threats almost daily.

So, go ahead side with the wrong side. It only makes your other
conspiracy crap all the easier to dismiss. This is what I love about
liberal wackos. Give them plenty of rope and they hang themselves every
time. Bwaaahahahahahhahahahahah! But, honestly, Larry. You seem to have
some grounded ideas elsewise. But you've clearly been spending too much
time on liberal conspiracy blogs. Keep it up and you'll be completely
over the top and you'll end up ranting, raving and puffing with the
likes of Ted Kennedy and Al Gore against your own country.


Wilbur Hubbard


My Dear Wilbur,
Thank you for disclosing your fanatical hatred of Islam.

I don't see anything in what he wrote that sounds
like fanaticism or hatred. Perhaps you were upset
by his term "Islamic fascists". Do you think that
all Moslems are good and that none are fascists?

As a Moslem, which by your definition makes me a fascist and a
terrorist, start looking over your shoulder because I might decide to
come and get you.

You are putting words in his mouth. He did not
say that all moslems are fascists.

Also, it is a well known fact that the president
of Iran has publicly stated several times that
Israel has no right to exist and should be wiped
off the world map. This sounds like he wants to
start a war--which by the way would surely turn
into a nuclear war if Israel felt its existence
were really threatened.

Actually, what you wrote also sounds threatening
from my perspective. You told him to "start
looking over his shoulder" which should be
construed as a threat. Is it common for moslems
to threaten when they are upset? It is actually
illegal here in the US to threaten someone. It is
called "assault".

Isn't that what we do?

I wouldn't know. A few moslems are certainly
making the religion look very bad right now.

Your name is now on the list

This is more threatening language. It makes you
look bad.

which should give you some cause for your
irrational phobias and obvious bitterness towards life. Perhaps if you
hadn't been such a miserable and negative SOB then your wife would not
have left you and your kids might care to visit.

A personal attack on one you do not know
personally. Even if he has offended you deeply,
your words are unseemly and unwise.

Have a wonderful day

Love
Mohammed Panaeyotis ibn Hendra

Love is surely in short supply in the world right
now. Perhaps now you will threaten me also?

Don W.

Larry wrote....
 

Peter Hendra wrote:

Love is surely in short supply in the world right
now. Perhaps now you will threaten me also?

Don W.

Don,
None of the above.

I wrote in jest to provoke the man.

Yes, I could see that in your writing because I've
read quite a few of your other posts, but decided
to respond as if you were serious because others
could easily misunderstand.

Nobody I know has any truck or sympathy for terrorism of any kind and
are saddened and annoyed at the growth of terrorism and these acts of
violence against innocent people world wide regardless of their
religion with which it has little to do and is used as an excuse and
point of focus for hatred. These include Tamil terrorists in Sri
Lanka, Hindu terrorists in India, the various Islamic terrorist groups
(who I reiterate are being totally un-Islamic) and Christian
terrorists such as in Indonesia who are being equally un-Christian.

I wholeheartedly agree. What is needed is for the
various religions to expell those who do evil and
profane the name of the religion.

What most are concerned about however, is that every Moslem gets
tarred by the brush applied to Osama bin Ladin or some extreme
ayatollah from Iran.

I don't think that this is true, as there are
millions of practicing Moslems in the US and
Canada. The problem is that extremism is a cancer
which has infected small groups of Moslems around
the world in many different countries. In the US
we are inundated by news reports of Moslem
extremists doing incredibly heartless and evil
things. At the same time, there is a deafening
silence from the rest of the Islamic world
regarding this evil. We cannot read minds, so the
silence and tolerance of the extremists by the
rest of the Islamic world is very troubling, and
leads to misplaced suspicions.

They are not anti-American. The question I have
had asked of me by so many is "Peter, why is America against Moslems?"
They just do not understand.

Well, personally, I don't think that the US is
against Moslems. Certainly not if they want to
live in peace with us.

The Christian terrorists or more correctly, those terrorists of
Indonesia who are Christian engage in heroin trafficking from the
Golden Triangle to the West and the smuggling of small girls and women
from Cambodia for the sex trade in order to buy weapons.

These people are not Christian, no matter how much
they claim to be.

These are a
high focus of Customs work as it is a sea born trade through the
Malcca Straits. Nobody would make the mental leap to conclude from
this that all Christians are supporters of terrorism and sex with
little girls as young as 6 years old or that it has anything to do
with doctrinal tenets. It is merely politically convenient for some
Western politicians to do so in regard to Islam.

I think that the problem is really more one of
misunderstanding between the various cultures of
the world. What is urgently needed is dialogue,
patience, and understanding--things typically in
short supply in human nature.

As I said, in our ranks we have several religions. What warms my heart
is that there is a wonderful tolerance between them all. During the
Hindu Devali (Hindu New Year), Chinese New Year, Ramadan and Christmas
festivals for example, families of different faiths visit each other's
homes and are respectful of their beliefs. Sometimes things get a bit
confused. My wife and son, who are nominally Christian (my
Mother-in-law is an Anglican minister) are phoned by several friends
(strict Moslems and Hindus) at midnight on Christmas Eve and wished a
"Happy Christmas" - confusing it with the Western New Year's Eve.

I have six adopted daughters (they were between 6 and 11 years old)
who were caught being smuggled from Cambodia for the sex trade. I
raise them as Buddhists, not as Moslems, because they were born into
that religion. Neither I nor anyone else have any right to make them
convert. They do however like Christian Christmas presents and
birthdays with parties and cakes with candles.

There are those of your religion that would brand
you an apostate and kill you and your adopted
daughters for what you are doing. We are fighting
them in Iraq right now, and they are killing the
Shia civilians by the hundreds for being
apostates. I guess to them "apostate" means
someone who doesn't believe exactly like they do.

Yes, I probably did go a bit overboard with The Captain, but he never
offended me; I was just provoking him for my own entertainment. I
shouldn't have. We also should turn the other cheek.

cheers and thanks for your comments
Peter

Actually, I've enjoyed the dialog.

Cheers, and thanks for _your_ comments

Don W.