Push starting your boat
Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about
having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. For that matter, I have heard of these spinning things you can drag behind to generate power but I can imagine getting it caught on a crab trap or something or having its line wrap round your prop. So, why not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some). This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. |
Push starting your boat
I've never started a diesel this way, but 40 years ago we started a 4
cylinder gas engine by letting the prop spin and slam it into gear. Actually I didn't think it would work, but it did and we were able to recharge our dead battery. Of course I always thought you couldn't push start a diesel but then someone proved me wrong by getting a couple guys and push starting a 2.5 ton Izuzu truck. I think the key is to have the engine properly tuned, timed and primed before you attempt this. -- My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions |
Push starting your boat
Parallax wrote:
Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly The large diesels used to power freighters can be restarted this way quite easily, no compression release required. This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. Many of these same ships use a "shaft generator" driven off the propeller shaft. Rick |
Push starting your boat
Used to start 6-71's with mechanical reverse gears, this way all the time.
Parallax wrote: Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. For that matter, I have heard of these spinning things you can drag behind to generate power but I can imagine getting it caught on a crab trap or something or having its line wrap round your prop. So, why not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some). This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. |
Push starting your boat
You have to put the Yanmar in reverse to stop the prop because
reverse is mechanical. In forward the prop will still rotate because it is fluid drive. So much for push starting a Yanmar. I was thinking of getting one of the windup starters as a backup. Doug "Parallax" wrote in message om... Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. For that matter, I have heard of these spinning things you can drag behind to generate power but I can imagine getting it caught on a crab trap or something or having its line wrap round your prop. So, why not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some). This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. |
Push starting your boat
Parallax wrote:
Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. Unluckily, your (and our) prop freewheels in forward. If you slam it into reverse, you would try to start the engine in the wrong direction. Best would probably be a solar panel. Turn everything off for an hour or two and even a 12w panel might give you enough juice: 2GMs really don't need much power to start if everything else is in good shape. Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a time, but always charge both. And upgrade any of your battery leads that is less than 1/0. We can start off one of our group 31 batteries during the summer even if it's showing about 11.5v. (When it's chilly, we need better voltage, but I haven't checked it since I upgraded our cables.) -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Push starting your boat
otnmbrd wrote in message link.net...
Used to start 6-71's with mechanical reverse gears, this way all the time. Parallax wrote: Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. For that matter, I have heard of these spinning things you can drag behind to generate power but I can imagine getting it caught on a crab trap or something or having its line wrap round your prop. So, why not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some). This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. Bob Griffith wrote about doing this regularly on his cutter "Awahanee" in his book "Bluye Water"; went on a beam reach and when she was going fast enough, put her in gear. john |
Push starting your boat
Doug,
I think you're thinking of the 35 engine The transmission in the 1gm (and 2 and 3GM) are all purely mechanical. At least from my investigation of the service manual, the forward gear is a mirror image of the reverse gear. the cluch cone simply bears against the forward drive gear, just like it does in reverse. The transmission is "spalsh lubricated, not hydraulic at all. Still it doesn't mean you can bump start. The 2GM20F in my doc neighbours boat (Tanzer 31)is hand startable. Parallax's should be also, you just need to use the decompression levers. (the hand crank drive pin has a bolted on cover plate on the newer 2GM20F's) so it looks like it's not hand startable, just take the plate off and cut the end off Reinstall and your engine is now hand crankable! Pierre "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... You have to put the Yanmar in reverse to stop the prop because reverse is mechanical. In forward the prop will still rotate because it is fluid drive. So much for push starting a Yanmar. I was thinking of getting one of the windup starters as a backup. Doug "Parallax" wrote in message om... Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. For that matter, I have heard of these spinning things you can drag behind to generate power but I can imagine getting it caught on a crab trap or something or having its line wrap round your prop. So, why not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some). This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. |
Push starting your boat
I had a Trojan Group 24 that easily started my 3GM30F
Pierre "Jere Lull" wrote in message ... Parallax wrote: Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. Unluckily, your (and our) prop freewheels in forward. If you slam it into reverse, you would try to start the engine in the wrong direction. Best would probably be a solar panel. Turn everything off for an hour or two and even a 12w panel might give you enough juice: 2GMs really don't need much power to start if everything else is in good shape. Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a time, but always charge both. And upgrade any of your battery leads that is less than 1/0. We can start off one of our group 31 batteries during the summer even if it's showing about 11.5v. (When it's chilly, we need better voltage, but I haven't checked it since I upgraded our cables.) -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Push starting your boat
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:59 GMT, in message
Jere Lull wrote: Parallax wrote: Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a time, but always charge both. Going that way would make me feel I was wasting the untouched bank. I have two identical deep discharge house batteries (came with the boat). Running on "All" minimizes the degree of discharge by spreading it across the batteries, but leaves me open to running down past engine starting capability. My solution is a "booster pack" -- a sealed, self contained battery unit with jumper cable clamps that can be used to jump start cars. Mine weighs about 10 pounds and cost about CDN$60, making it a way simpler and cheaper bit of insurance. Yes I know that a "better" solution would be a separate cranking battery and associated switching. Ryk |
Push starting your boat
Ryk wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:59 GMT, in message Jere Lull wrote: Parallax wrote: Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a time, but always charge both. Going that way would make me feel I was wasting the untouched bank. I have two identical deep discharge house batteries (came with the boat). Running on "All" minimizes the degree of discharge by spreading it across the batteries, but leaves me open to running down past engine starting capability. We have the same setup. They were group 24s, but I went to 31s a couple of years ago. Start on both (or the good one if I drew down too much), charge both, draw from 1. Next cycle, we draw from 2. Both batteries are exercised about the same amount, both need replacement about the same time. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Push starting your boat
Ryk wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:59 GMT, in message Jere Lull wrote: Parallax wrote: Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? Changing my mind: Best is two battery banks. Only draw from one at a time, but always charge both. Going that way would make me feel I was wasting the untouched bank. I have two identical deep discharge house batteries (came with the boat). Running on "All" minimizes the degree of discharge by spreading it across the batteries, but leaves me open to running down past engine starting capability. My solution is a "booster pack" -- a sealed, self contained battery unit with jumper cable clamps that can be used to jump start cars. Mine weighs about 10 pounds and cost about CDN$60, making it a way simpler and cheaper bit of insurance. Yes I know that a "better" solution would be a separate cranking battery and associated switching. Ryk I looked carefully before installing the used 2GM and didnt see any pawls for the hand crank to engage, maybe as a previous poster suggested thee is one beneath a cover. I had serious trouble hand starting the 1GM as I just cannot get sufficient hand torque in the odd position I have to be in on my 28' S2. Its just damned awkward. I have considered drilling a hole thru the engine compartment bulkhead and making a crank extension so I can hand crank from the main cabin but gave up that idea when I installed the 2GM. Is this still feasible? Another idea for a prop generator. Voltage should be directly to speed.....so, who really needs a knotlog? |
Push starting your boat
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:20:18 +0000, Steve wrote:
I've never started a diesel this way, but 40 years ago we started a 4 cylinder gas engine by letting the prop spin and slam it into gear. Wow - never figured that would work! I look for the crank attachment on the engine. It's not easy, but you CAN hand-crank a diesel up to maybe 30hp or so. I knew a guy who used to hand-crank his every month or so just for practice. (Then again, he used to pull off the fuel line so he could say he was "disabled" and sail under the First Narrows bridge...) Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Push starting your boat
I looked carefully before installing the used 2GM and didnt see any
pawls for the hand crank to engage, maybe as a previous poster suggested thee is one beneath a cover. I had serious trouble hand starting the 1GM as I just cannot get sufficient hand torque in the odd position I have to be in on my 28' S2. Its just damned awkward. I have considered drilling a hole thru the engine compartment bulkhead and making a crank extension so I can hand crank from the main cabin but gave up that idea when I installed the 2GM. Is this still feasible? The hand crank on my 2GM (ca 1983) fits on the end of the crankshaft pulley using a very simple arrangement of pawls. It's a somewhat awkward arrangement that requires the removal of the bulkhead to give room to swing the handle. The bigger problem is that, so far, I haven't been able to start it by hand. Despite having started similar-sized Lister diesels many times (albeit, quite a while ago) the 2GM still defeats me -- as soon as I slip the decompressor over the engine just stops, no matter how hard and fast I'm cranking. Perhaps it would work better if there were a second person available to operate the decompressor. The answer to this seems to be the portable booster battery already suggested. Giles Morris |
Push starting your boat
As far as I know the hand crank spot on the 2GM20F is blocked by the water pump belt - it
is on mine. If its salt water cooled (not the "F" version) it should be accessible. "98stratus" wrote in message ... Doug, I think you're thinking of the 35 engine The transmission in the 1gm (and 2 and 3GM) are all purely mechanical. At least from my investigation of the service manual, the forward gear is a mirror image of the reverse gear. the cluch cone simply bears against the forward drive gear, just like it does in reverse. The transmission is "spalsh lubricated, not hydraulic at all. Still it doesn't mean you can bump start. The 2GM20F in my doc neighbours boat (Tanzer 31)is hand startable. Parallax's should be also, you just need to use the decompression levers. (the hand crank drive pin has a bolted on cover plate on the newer 2GM20F's) so it looks like it's not hand startable, just take the plate off and cut the end off Reinstall and your engine is now hand crankable! Pierre "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... You have to put the Yanmar in reverse to stop the prop because reverse is mechanical. In forward the prop will still rotate because it is fluid drive. So much for push starting a Yanmar. I was thinking of getting one of the windup starters as a backup. Doug "Parallax" wrote in message om... Although I have few elecrical gadgets to use power, I do worry about having enough juice to run my VHF and running lights and am also partial to having a small fan. Auto-pilot is also nice on long runs. So what happens if my batteries accidently get run down? My old Yanmar 1GM could be han cranked but my 2GM, no. However, while looking into the engine compartment one day while under sail, I noticed my prop shaft was spinning like mad cuz I hadnt put it in gear (Yanmar says put it in reverse). So: maybe not so useless Idea #3727 Can you release the compression of the engine with the decompression levers, get going good under sail with engine in gear an use the spinning prop to sorta "push-start" the engine with you suddenly giving it compression? I might try this next time I am out. For that matter, I have heard of these spinning things you can drag behind to generate power but I can imagine getting it caught on a crab trap or something or having its line wrap round your prop. So, why not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some). This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. |
Push starting your boat
Howdy...
"Parallax" wrote in message om... not put a v-belt pulley on the prop shaft and use it to turn a belt attached to another alternator. This way you could charge your batteries without starting the engine (sure it slows you down some). This cannot be original cuz I know I saw it somewhere but cannot imagine where. Sailnet article, approximately May 9... I have it saved - about a 279 HTML file, if you want it and can't find it. L8R Skip The Propshaft Alternator By Denis Glennon |
Push starting your boat
Honest, we did it. I think the main factor was the size and mass of the
prop. This was a little 4 cylinder gas engine. I think it was a Universal. Brand new. This boat had about a 16 dia. wheel on a 1 1/2" shaft.. We had been anchored in Cat Harbor, Catalina Is. for about a week and hadn't realized that the engine room light was on all that time. This was back in about '60 and we had no VHF or elect cabin lights so never noticed that the battery (1) went dead. Couldn't hand crank it because it was on a vee drive with the pulley end of the engine backed up against the mizzen step... We hoisted anchor and sailed out into open water and once we were on a broad reach the boat speed picked up and the prop shaft started spinning because we had forgotten to put it in gear.. We has also forgotten to turn off the ingnition switch from our earlier attempts to start it. The skipper kicked the shift lever into fwd to stop the prop rotation, BAMM! the engine kicked over and started. Wow! what a feeling of relief, since we know the summer wind wouldn't last all the way to San Diego. BTW. I have often bragged that I could hand crank my MD2B diesel. In fact I did it regularly on my last boat. I now have the same model engine on my present boat but last Fri. I had a starter problem and tired to hand crank this one. I must be getting older (67) and weaker but I couldn't get enough rpm up with the cold engine oil (30 weight, plus this eng. only has 100 hours on it). I finally took the starter apart and repaired it(broken brush spring), but I am looking into some way to release the compression lever while still keeping both hands on the hand crank. Or else I need to go the the gym and work on my upper body strength and cardiovacular stuff. Steve s/v Good Intentions |
Push starting your boat
On 20 Oct 2003 12:52:34 -0700, (Giles) wrote:
The hand crank on my 2GM (ca 1983) fits on the end of the crankshaft pulley using a very simple arrangement of pawls. It's a somewhat awkward arrangement that requires the removal of the bulkhead to give room to swing the handle. The bigger problem is that, so far, I haven't been able to start it by hand. Despite having started similar-sized Lister diesels many times (albeit, quite a while ago) the 2GM still defeats me -- as soon as I slip the decompressor over the engine just stops, no matter how hard and fast I'm cranking. Perhaps it would work better if there were a second person available to operate the decompressor. The answer to this seems to be the portable booster battery already suggested. Giles Morris The trick I have been told is to remove the link between the 2 cylinder. Open both levers. Crank it as fast as you can and get it going on one by dropping the lever. Once it's going you can drop the other one. I haven't tried it yet. Jeannette Bristol 32, San Francisco http://www.eblw.com/contepartiro/contepartiro.html |
Push starting your boat
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:10:59 -0700, "Steve" wrote:
snip BTW. I have often bragged that I could hand crank my MD2B diesel. In fact I did it regularly on my last boat. I now have the same model engine on my present boat but last Fri. I had a starter problem and tired to hand crank this one. I must be getting older (67) and weaker but I couldn't get enough rpm up with the cold engine oil (30 weight, plus this eng. only has 100 hours on it). I finally took the starter apart and repaired it(broken brush spring), but I am looking into some way to release the compression lever while still keeping both hands on the hand crank. Or else I need to go the the gym and work on my upper body strength and cardiovacular stuff. Steve s/v Good Intentions Bunge Cord trying to pull the compression lever closed while a rope held under your foot holds the compression lever open. Once it starts running you can slap the other lever/s closed. Mark E. Williams |
Push starting your boat
"98stratus" wrote in message ...
Doug, I think you're thinking of the 35 engine The transmission in the 1gm (and 2 and 3GM) are all purely mechanical. At least from my investigation of the service manual, the forward gear is a mirror image of the reverse gear. the cluch cone simply bears against the forward drive gear, just like it does in reverse. The transmission is "spalsh lubricated, not hydraulic at all. I appreciate the suggestion elsewhere about separating the two decompressor levers to start the engine by hand. Sadly, they're already disconnected. It may be that the issue is more that I may no longer have the technique that I used to start Listers 35+ years ago. However... Somebody suggested using a bungee pulling the lever to the "compressed" position with a line held under my foot to keep it open while cranking, thus leaving two hands to crank -- that might work, and I'll give it a try. Getting back to the point: The gearbox on my 2GM is completely mechanical, and I noticed that each gear is "one-way". If you put it in gear (with the engine STOPPED, please) you will find that you can turn it against the desired direction by hand. It turns out that this is the correct behaviour, and explains the instruction to put it in reverse to lock the prop while sailing. (This whole thing worried me because I was refitting the engine/transmission after replacing the engine beds, and I thought that I might have fried the transmission. The lack of drive turned out to be a huge wad of barnacles living on the prop). Giles |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:09 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com