Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

Do you all ,,, in north talk that is "you guys" .. carry a big, huge,
anchor.. the one for the "tough" job?

And what size in relation to boat size.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:bz0Ah.3231$TG6.1624@trnddc06...
Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

Do you all ,,, in north talk that is "you guys" .. carry a big, huge,
anchor.. the one for the "tough" job?

And what size in relation to boat size.


I carry a Bruce, a Fortress, and a Delta, all one size larger than
recommended for Essie's length. I also carry 300 feet of chain (1/4" proof
coil to fit the windlass) , 600 feet of nylon rode in 2 sections, each with
45 feet of chain at the anchor end. I would like to have a Luke for rocks.
To me it's not so much trying to have the biggest heaviest anchor as it is
having at least two anchors that will work well in whatever bottom I might
need to anchor in. The combination of the Bruce, Fortress and Delta have me
pretty well covered, as they overlap bottom types.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

Where do you store all the ground tackle? I'm assuming you have one of em
up front,, but where do you keep the other two.

==
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:bz0Ah.3231$TG6.1624@trnddc06...
Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

Do you all ,,, in north talk that is "you guys" .. carry a big, huge,
anchor.. the one for the "tough" job?

And what size in relation to boat size.


I carry a Bruce, a Fortress, and a Delta, all one size larger than
recommended for Essie's length. I also carry 300 feet of chain (1/4" proof
coil to fit the windlass) , 600 feet of nylon rode in 2 sections, each
with 45 feet of chain at the anchor end. I would like to have a Luke for
rocks. To me it's not so much trying to have the biggest heaviest anchor
as it is having at least two anchors that will work well in whatever
bottom I might need to anchor in. The combination of the Bruce, Fortress
and Delta have me pretty well covered, as they overlap bottom types.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

300 feet of chain in the bow locker, along with 300 feet of nylon rode (with
its chain). Additional rode/chain in the laz. Currently the Bruce is rigged
and ready to go as my "go to" anchor, with the Fortress in the laz and the
Delta in the forward stateroom ready to pass topside if needed. Boat trims
well, without excessive hobbyhorsing under the conditions I tend to
encounter. If I know I'm going to try anchoring in grass, I'll switch to the
Delta forward.

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:BP0Ah.3510$4_5.1234@trnddc05...
Where do you store all the ground tackle? I'm assuming you have one of em
up front,, but where do you keep the other two.

==
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:bz0Ah.3231$TG6.1624@trnddc06...
Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

Do you all ,,, in north talk that is "you guys" .. carry a big, huge,
anchor.. the one for the "tough" job?

And what size in relation to boat size.


I carry a Bruce, a Fortress, and a Delta, all one size larger than
recommended for Essie's length. I also carry 300 feet of chain (1/4"
proof coil to fit the windlass) , 600 feet of nylon rode in 2 sections,
each with 45 feet of chain at the anchor end. I would like to have a Luke
for rocks. To me it's not so much trying to have the biggest heaviest
anchor as it is having at least two anchors that will work well in
whatever bottom I might need to anchor in. The combination of the Bruce,
Fortress and Delta have me pretty well covered, as they overlap bottom
types.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:26:47 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

If you are doing serious cruising and plan to anchor out much of the
time, my advice is to carry the bigest anchor that you and/or your
windlass can handle, and the more chain the better. Anchor type
obviously depends on your local bottom conditions. We anchored
successfully in Maine for many years on a 20 pound Danforth anchor (34
ft, 10,000 lb sailboat), but a Danforth is nearly worthless on a rocky
or grassy bottom. They also have an unfortunate habit of sailing
through the water without finding bottom if you try to set one in an
emergency - all of those lessons learned the hard way of course.

Bruce anchors set quickly in many different bottom types but have a
reputation for creeping under load. I carry a 65 pounder as a primary
backup (60,000 lb flybridge trawler). I also carry a 45 lb spade and
30 lb Danforth as backups, along with extra chain and rode. We
recently used the Danforth (during the day) in the Florida Keys with
a sand bottom and 5/8ths nylon rode. It worked well on 7 to 1 scope
although I would not be comfortable sleeping that way. Winds were in
the 12 to 20 kt range.

We have tried several different types of plow anchors at different
times with different boats, but had several instances of dragging,
and/or failure to reset - all of that with adequately sized anchors
and plenty of scope. With our old boat (33 ft flybridge sportfish),
we eventually settled on a 44 lb spade with 5/16ths HT chain. That
was a very effective combination but requires a windlass of course.
It would be a good storm anchor on sailboats up to about 40 ft.

Our primary anchor now is a 120 lb Spade on 3/8ths HT chain. This is
the heaviest anchor our windlass can handle, and it has proven to be
very effective on almost all bottoms, typically on 5 to 1 scope unless
it is really blowing hard. If the Spade has a weakness anywhere it is
with very soft mud or shells over a hard bottom, but that is difficult
for any anchor. My typical solution is to let out more chain which
usually results in a firm set.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

Wayne ,, if I use oversize chain ,, to say the anchor size .. will this be
to my advantage. I have a plow and it sits up front in a roller which was
designed for it.. Maybe adding a heavy chaine would give me some advantage.

I don't have a windless. I am the windless.

========
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:26:47 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

If you are doing serious cruising and plan to anchor out much of the
time, my advice is to carry the bigest anchor that you and/or your
windlass can handle, and the more chain the better. Anchor type
obviously depends on your local bottom conditions. We anchored
successfully in Maine for many years on a 20 pound Danforth anchor (34
ft, 10,000 lb sailboat), but a Danforth is nearly worthless on a rocky
or grassy bottom. They also have an unfortunate habit of sailing
through the water without finding bottom if you try to set one in an
emergency - all of those lessons learned the hard way of course.

Bruce anchors set quickly in many different bottom types but have a
reputation for creeping under load. I carry a 65 pounder as a primary
backup (60,000 lb flybridge trawler). I also carry a 45 lb spade and
30 lb Danforth as backups, along with extra chain and rode. We
recently used the Danforth (during the day) in the Florida Keys with
a sand bottom and 5/8ths nylon rode. It worked well on 7 to 1 scope
although I would not be comfortable sleeping that way. Winds were in
the 12 to 20 kt range.

We have tried several different types of plow anchors at different
times with different boats, but had several instances of dragging,
and/or failure to reset - all of that with adequately sized anchors
and plenty of scope. With our old boat (33 ft flybridge sportfish),
we eventually settled on a 44 lb spade with 5/16ths HT chain. That
was a very effective combination but requires a windlass of course.
It would be a good storm anchor on sailboats up to about 40 ft.

Our primary anchor now is a 120 lb Spade on 3/8ths HT chain. This is
the heaviest anchor our windlass can handle, and it has proven to be
very effective on almost all bottoms, typically on 5 to 1 scope unless
it is really blowing hard. If the Spade has a weakness anywhere it is
with very soft mud or shells over a hard bottom, but that is difficult
for any anchor. My typical solution is to let out more chain which
usually results in a firm set.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:05:53 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Wayne ,, if I use oversize chain ,, to say the anchor size .. will this be
to my advantage. I have a plow and it sits up front in a roller which was
designed for it.. Maybe adding a heavy chaine would give me some advantage.

It would probably help with getting the anchor set more quickly if you
used something like 15 ft of 3/8ths or 5/16ths chain since it will
lower the effective angle of pull on the anchor in lightly loaded
conditions.

We did that in Key West with the 30 pound Danforth using 30 ft of
3/8ths and it was very effective. That would be big time overkill on
a smaller boat however and increase your retrieval effort since total
weight was over 60 lbs. We were pulling up most of the rode by hand
in Key West but using the windlass to break it out. It was really dug
in hard by the end of the afternoon. The alternative on a boat with
no windlass is to keep snubbing the rode and letting wave action break
it out.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:05:53 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Wayne ,, if I use oversize chain ,, to say the anchor size .. will this be
to my advantage. I have a plow and it sits up front in a roller which was
designed for it.. Maybe adding a heavy chaine would give me some advantage.

It would probably help with getting the anchor set more quickly if you
used something like 15 ft of 3/8ths or 5/16ths chain since it will
lower the effective angle of pull on the anchor in lightly loaded
conditions.

We did that in Key West with the 30 pound Danforth using 30 ft of
3/8ths and it was very effective. That would be big time overkill on
a smaller boat however and increase your retrieval effort since total
weight was over 60 lbs. We were pulling up most of the rode by hand
in Key West but using the windlass to break it out. It was really dug
in hard by the end of the afternoon. The alternative on a boat with
no windlass is to keep snubbing the rode and letting wave action break
it out.


That's about the system we have: 30' of 3/8 chain, which is way
oversized, hooked (now) to a steel Spade 80, which is good for a typical
34' boat. (the aluminum version works fine for us, though, and is easier
to haul.)

This is so oversized that when we raft up with boats to 50', we often
wind up depending on our anchor instead of the big boys', theirs having
crept over the weekend.

When we used a Danforth, switching from the recommended 6' of 1/4 to 15'
of 3/8 significantly improved the set in the Chesapeake mud/sand. If a
storm piped up, we had a heck of a time hauling it up, but it never
tripped out.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

On Feb 12, 8:05 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wayne ,, if I use oversize chain ,, to say the anchor size .. will this be
to my advantage. I have a plow and it sits up front in a roller which was
designed for it.. Maybe adding a heavy chaine would give me some advantage.

If you don't have a powered windless I'd suggest using a kellet.
Since you can retrieve the kellet independently of the rest of the
rode you can make the whole system heavier and kellets are very
effective.

As everyone notes, bigger is better with anchors and anchor rode when
anchored. However, smaller is better with anchors and anchor rode
when sailing and when retrieving. As with all things boat, you will
have to compromise. The Hinz book is a good place to start if you
are really set on rethinking your anchoring set up from scratch.

-- Tom.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:38:10 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

When we used a Danforth, switching from the recommended 6' of 1/4 to 15'
of 3/8 significantly improved the set in the Chesapeake mud/sand. If a
storm piped up, we had a heck of a time hauling it up, but it never
tripped out.

Danforth's have amazing holding power in those conditions. Once set
on decent scope, I've never had one pull out.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:26:47 +0000, NE Sailboat wrote:

Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

Do you all ,,, in north talk that is "you guys" .. carry a big, huge,
anchor.. the one for the "tough" job?

And what size in relation to boat size.

Ya know, I'm confused. I read the responses to this post and really wonder
if we have some Magic Stickup at the bottom of our bays around here. 7 to
1? You'd hit every boat in the bay, before going up on the rocks. You're
lucky to get enough room for 3 to 1. I use a 35-lb CQR with 30 ft of heavy
chain, and it's never let me down in 18 years - not even in 20+ knot
winds. Hell, in lighter conditions I've "set" my 22-lb Danforth just by
letting it "fly" off the stern: probably no more than 2 to 1.

And it's not like I'm alone in this: most boats my size (36ft sailboat)
have maybe 16-lb Bruces they set with maybe 3 to 1.

druid - loves his CQR

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

Hi, I've just bought one of these:
http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/
It is a bit of a mission to put it on the chain, but it became easier with
experience. First impression is great improvement in holding (in
combination with Danforth) and far less swing. It seemed a good idea as the
extra weight is more effective than additional anchor weight. Anyone else
out there with experience with these over a longer period? In the USA it's
marketed as Kiwi Anchor Rider.
Plano




"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:bz0Ah.3231$TG6.1624@trnddc06...
Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

Do you all ,,, in north talk that is "you guys" .. carry a big, huge,
anchor.. the one for the "tough" job?

And what size in relation to boat size.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

This sounds too much like a troll...... but I'll bight.
Size does matter as with many other things.

Since you are aking this qustion iknow that you have not read the
Bible of anchoring.

Hinz, Earl R., The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring. Cornell
Maritme Press. Centreville, Maryland. 20001.

Get it, read it! Keep it and read it again!
Bob

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:38:10 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

When we used a Danforth, switching from the recommended 6' of 1/4 to 15'
of 3/8 significantly improved the set in the Chesapeake mud/sand. If a
storm piped up, we had a heck of a time hauling it up, but it never
tripped out.

Danforth's have amazing holding power in those conditions. Once set
on decent scope, I've never had one pull out.

I did -- once. That's why we added the heavy chain. Though set, it was
close enough to the surface that a wind shift tripped it out. The extra
chain lets it dive pretty deep.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

NE Sailboat wrote:
Just read a web story about a dragging anchor. So, I start to think???
How big.. that is how much bigger than the recommended anchor can a boat
use.

Do you all ,,, in north talk that is "you guys" .. carry a big, huge,
anchor.. the one for the "tough" job?

And what size in relation to boat size.

Last boat:

30' Monohull, cutter rig, high bow so somewhat greater than average
windage:

35 # Delta, 1/4" grade 40 chain 300'
35 # CQR clone, 30' 1/4" chain + 300' x 1/2" double braid rope
22 # Danforth, 6' 1/4" chain + 250' x 1" nylon webbing

The Delta held decently in winds 40 knots except in the soft muck in
the Chesapeake. The CQR actually did better there - probably the
lesser area allowed it to sink more easily into the firmer stuff below
the soft stuff on top.


Current boat:

40' cruising catamaran, 13,000 lbs fully loaded.

33# A140 Spade - huge anchor suggested for up to 65' boat, 100' x
5/16" chain + 200' 5/8" rope

Fortress FX37 - also a pretty big anchor, for 46-51' boasts, 50' x
5/16" chain + 200' 5/8" rope

Still have the 22 # Danforth, 6' 1/4" chain + 250' x 1/2" nylon double
braid

+ the webbing and some 400' of 5/8" for a parachute sea anchor.


No such thing as too big an anchor. If people don't point and laugh,
it's not big enough.

Evan Gatehouse

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

if you want to go smaller but still want to be able to handle the
ultimate storm,
tandem up 2 anchors: lay a danforth with 35 ft of chain, attach the
other end
of the chain to the head of a CQR, lay the CQR.
In addition to the "you can have anchors too big", you also can't have
too many
anchors. Fortresses are great for this duty (their light, come apart,
easily stowable).
Tom

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

plano wrote:
Hi, I've just bought one of these:
http://www.anchorbuddy.co.nz/
It is a bit of a mission to put it on the chain, but it became easier with
experience. First impression is great improvement in holding (in
combination with Danforth) and far less swing. It seemed a good idea as the
extra weight is more effective than additional anchor weight. Anyone else
out there with experience with these over a longer period? In the USA it's
marketed as Kiwi Anchor Rider.
Plano

I sometimes shackle a small dinghy mushroom on the rode and ride it
down. What does the Kiwi do better for $300?

I used to use the dinghy anchor more as a hammerlock on my old boat to
prevent it from "horsing" at anchor. A hammerlock is simply a weight
dropped from the bow on very short scope that slows down the
wanderings. I keep a large shackle with the kit so it also serves as
a kellet.

I have friends that use a kellet a lot; they do it it with a dive belt
on a shackle.

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:14:46 -0800, druid wrote:

Ya know, I'm confused. I read the responses to this post and really wonder
if we have some Magic Stickup at the bottom of our bays around here. 7 to
1? You'd hit every boat in the bay, before going up on the rocks. You're
lucky to get enough room for 3 to 1. I use a 35-lb CQR with 30 ft of heavy
chain, and it's never let me down in 18 years - not even in 20+ knot
winds. Hell, in lighter conditions I've "set" my 22-lb Danforth just by
letting it "fly" off the stern: probably no more than 2 to 1.

And it's not like I'm alone in this: most boats my size (36ft sailboat)
have maybe 16-lb Bruces they set with maybe 3 to 1.

druid - loves his CQR

Some places are like that. Here in South Louisiana, Vermillion Bay, 2
to 1 with a Danforth will do it no matter what. I must admit overnight
I use 5 to 1, then spend tens of minutes powering back and forth
taking up 6 to 8 inches of rode at a time. Our bottom is pure gumbo
mud with some clay under it. Most of the time the anchor comes up with
20 to 50 lbs of "gumbo" on it.

Someone mentioned using a Kellet. We started using one in South
Florida after wind and current caused the rode to catch on the keel.
That was interesting! Used a 10-lb mushroom anchor from the dinghy at
first, then poured lead in a soup can with a loop imbedded. That I
suspect expensive "Anchorbuddy" is the same thing, only apparently
more trouble to use. I just rigged about 25 ft. of line and a 2-foot
length with a snap schakle on the free end. Snap it onto the anchor
rode after setting and let it slide down, cleating the 25 ft. length
where you want. And yes, it works as advertised re more secure and
less swinging.

Rick

Anchor Size ,, does size matter.. that's a joke son .. question
 

"druid" wrote in message
Ya know, I'm confused. I read the responses to this post and really wonder
if we have some Magic Stickup at the bottom of our bays around here. 7 to
1? You'd hit every boat in the bay, before going up on the rocks. You're
lucky to get enough room for 3 to 1. I use a 35-lb CQR with 30 ft of heavy
chain, and it's never let me down in 18 years - not even in 20+ knot
winds. Hell, in lighter conditions I've "set" my 22-lb Danforth just by
letting it "fly" off the stern: probably no more than 2 to 1.

Very unusual. Just as a matter of interest, when you have dug the anchor in
on these short scopes, do you check that the anchor will hold when you have
15hp going full astern? That's my test for a good sleep in a 32ft when the
wind might lift to 25kts or so.

JimB
www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
compares the cruise areas of Europe, with detail on Greece.