Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

There's no doubt we fouled up. I believe I've been candid about
that. I believe I've also been candid about how we got where we ended
up. If it weren't for the fact that they have no chance, I'd be a
Libertarian, which main - perhaps only - plank is personal
responsibility. Been that way since I was single-digit old...

Whipping the dog who's barfed in the car doesn't make a better dog :
{))

Posting your - sometimes duplicate, other than the outcome -
experiences and how you dealt with them is instructive - to us and to
others reading. I've enjoyed seeing the discussions our mishap has
spawned. This being a relatively small group, you mostly probably
don't know that similar discussions are happening in many of the
mailing lists I annoy with my logorrhea from time to time. Among them
has been discussion of weather and sea state conditions both in
general and on that specific occasion in the area in which we came to
grief. Without making excuses, I believe we were in the wrong place
at the right time. We paid the price.

Now we're doing the best we can to get back on the horse. Directions
to the barn, and later, the trail, would be appreciated. Shooting the
horse so we won't get back up (yah,, I know a long-stretch analogy,
but Lydia's a champion horser) isn't worth the dog food it would
provide :{)) - so perhaps y'all could feed it for us until we make it
back?

L8R

Skip and Lydia, blessed, despite it all

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

In article .com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

Now we're doing the best we can to get back on the horse. Directions
to the barn, and later, the trail, would be appreciated. Shooting the
horse so we won't get back up (yah,, I know a long-stretch analogy,
but Lydia's a champion horser) isn't worth the dog food it would
provide :{)) - so perhaps y'all could feed it for us until we make it
back?

So glad that your sense of humor has survived intact.

I'm confident that you will find the barn and horse and trail and FP
will fly again.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

Captain Skip ,,, once you get the boat back in shape ( you will, don't
even have one negative thought ) ,, get a white fiberglass dinghy and name
it "**** happens".

After reading all about your mishap, not knowing much about your boat or you
personally; I decided to do some computer sailing.

I Googled Boot Key Harbor ,, I knew the Gulf is shallow ............ but
holy cow!

That area is so treacherous my computer ran aground.

I sail in the New England area. Mostly along the coast of Maine. Some NH,,
and Mass. One good thing about Maine, you can be in deep water right up to
the moment you hit the shore. And then you sink.

Anyhow,, one of the Google hits was a web page from a couple who sailed the
same area as you about 4 years ago. It was like reading a police report.
They got in the harbor down there and then a storm hit and a few of the
boats dragged anchor. From the page, it sounded like a pinball effect as
boat hit boat. Another boat dragged and went up on a reef.

From what I learned; the keys is an area where one must be careful and then
have some luck.

Don't let the "I told you so's" get to ya. As far as sailing with only the
two of you, go for it. I go out by myself. Not because that is/was/ my
plan but I don't have a crew. So, off I go.

My advice: fix the boat and as your doing it have one important thought in
mind. Not the galley, not the head, not the berth ...

Think: how can I make this sailboat easier to sail with two people ... Do
everything and anything that will make shorthanded sailing easier.

Stuff like the mailsail that reefed into the mast or boom. Lines that lead
to whatever...

When you get that baby done, the only thing you should need to do is push a
button.


Good luck..




"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...
There's no doubt we fouled up. I believe I've been candid about
that. I believe I've also been candid about how we got where we ended
up. If it weren't for the fact that they have no chance, I'd be a
Libertarian, which main - perhaps only - plank is personal
responsibility. Been that way since I was single-digit old...

Whipping the dog who's barfed in the car doesn't make a better dog :
{))

Posting your - sometimes duplicate, other than the outcome -
experiences and how you dealt with them is instructive - to us and to
others reading. I've enjoyed seeing the discussions our mishap has
spawned. This being a relatively small group, you mostly probably
don't know that similar discussions are happening in many of the
mailing lists I annoy with my logorrhea from time to time. Among them
has been discussion of weather and sea state conditions both in
general and on that specific occasion in the area in which we came to
grief. Without making excuses, I believe we were in the wrong place
at the right time. We paid the price.

Now we're doing the best we can to get back on the horse. Directions
to the barn, and later, the trail, would be appreciated. Shooting the
horse so we won't get back up (yah,, I know a long-stretch analogy,
but Lydia's a champion horser) isn't worth the dog food it would
provide :{)) - so perhaps y'all could feed it for us until we make it
back?

L8R

Skip and Lydia, blessed, despite it all

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:09:12 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Think: how can I make this sailboat easier to sail with two people ... Do
everything and anything that will make shorthanded sailing easier.

The easiest way to sail a boat with two people, not as young as they
used to be, is to get a trawler. Been there, done that. There is
just nothing like a pair of big diesels with 30 inch, 4 bladed props
to keep a boat going to windward in heavy weather.


When you get that baby done, the only thing you should need to do is push a
button.

And then you just need plenty of time, money and power to keep all of
those buttons working.

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

A Trawler? Wayne,, Pllllleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. We are talking sailing
here, not stink pots.

=====
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:09:12 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Think: how can I make this sailboat easier to sail with two people ...
Do
everything and anything that will make shorthanded sailing easier.

The easiest way to sail a boat with two people, not as young as they
used to be, is to get a trawler. Been there, done that. There is
just nothing like a pair of big diesels with 30 inch, 4 bladed props
to keep a boat going to windward in heavy weather.


When you get that baby done, the only thing you should need to do is push
a
button.

And then you just need plenty of time, money and power to keep all of
those buttons working.

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

Wayne ,, just so you know .. the posting is a joke.. I don't want you
getting all up in arms.

===
"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:LV1Ah.10314$Yn4.4991@trnddc03...
A Trawler? Wayne,, Pllllleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. We are talking sailing
here, not stink pots.

=====
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:09:12 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Think: how can I make this sailboat easier to sail with two people ...
Do
everything and anything that will make shorthanded sailing easier.

The easiest way to sail a boat with two people, not as young as they
used to be, is to get a trawler. Been there, done that. There is
just nothing like a pair of big diesels with 30 inch, 4 bladed props
to keep a boat going to windward in heavy weather.


When you get that baby done, the only thing you should need to do is push
a
button.

And then you just need plenty of time, money and power to keep all of
those buttons working.

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

On Feb 12, 1:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
Wayne ,, just so you know .. the posting is a joke.. I don't want you
getting all up in arms.

==="NE Sailboat" wrote in message

news:LV1Ah.10314$Yn4.4991@trnddc03...

A Trawler? Wayne,, Pllllleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. We are talking sailing
here, not stink pots.

=====
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:09:12 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Think: how can I make this sailboat easier to sail with two people ...
Do
everything and anything that will make shorthanded sailing easier.

The easiest way to sail a boat with two people, not as young as they
used to be, is to get a trawler. Been there, done that. There is
just nothing like a pair of big diesels with 30 inch, 4 bladed props
to keep a boat going to windward in heavy weather.

When you get that baby done, the only thing you should need to do is push
a
button.

And then you just need plenty of time, money and power to keep all of
those buttons working.


Dang, sorry to hear about this. I am wondering why you didnt go into
Boca Grande as per your original plans. Was it a case of things just
going so well that you saw no reason to? After Boca Grande with a
6.5' draft, I'd want to be plenty alert. I assume the 20-30 kts was
from NW (otherwise seas woulda been less) which would make it a wetter
turn toward Key West. With 25 kt wind from NW ,you went downwind
sorta into Fl Bay (I dont have my charts handy) which is sorta scary
with that draft.

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

On Feb 11, 8:00 pm, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:
There's no doubt we fouled up.

I once met a sailor who had never fouled up -- he was 14 and
considered all of his mistakes part of the day's fun. Anyone who has
greater experience has plenty of reason to be humble and to identify
with what happened to you.

I have always valued your contributions and I'm grateful that you are
well. I just hope that someday you get a chance to live your dream,
instead of perpetually building it.

Steve

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

On Feb 12, 3:29 pm, "Frogwatch" wrote:
On Feb 12, 1:03 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:



Wayne ,, just so you know .. the posting is a joke.. I don't want you
getting all up in arms.

==="NE Sailboat" wrote in message

news:LV1Ah.10314$Yn4.4991@trnddc03...

A Trawler? Wayne,, Pllllleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. We are talking sailing
here, not stink pots.

=====
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:09:12 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Think: how can I make this sailboat easier to sail with two people ...
Do
everything and anything that will make shorthanded sailing easier.

The easiest way to sail a boat with two people, not as young as they
used to be, is to get a trawler. Been there, done that. There is
just nothing like a pair of big diesels with 30 inch, 4 bladed props
to keep a boat going to windward in heavy weather.

When you get that baby done, the only thing you should need to do is push
a
button.

And then you just need plenty of time, money and power to keep all of
those buttons working.

Dang, sorry to hear about this. I am wondering why you didnt go into
Boca Grande as per your original plans. Was it a case of things just
going so well that you saw no reason to? After Boca Grande with a
6.5' draft, I'd want to be plenty alert. I assume the 20-30 kts was
from NW (otherwise seas woulda been less) which would make it a wetter
turn toward Key West. With 25 kt wind from NW ,you went downwind
sorta into Fl Bay (I dont have my charts handy) which is sorta scary
with that draft.

I think all this happed the week before last, maybe Thur ? Here in
Tallahassee, I'd heard of nasty weather moving in with very strong
wind forecast. On Thur (maybe it was Wed, I forget) I looked outside
of my door at the trees blowing around and thought "Damn, I'm sure
glad I'm not on the water". Skip says he had not heard a forcast for
nasty weather which I believe. I also remember the "Storm of the
Century" when we were due to leave that morn for a crusie but I'd
heard of a weird low in the west Gulf and decidded to wait. Oddly,
some sailors I met two weeks later HAD NOT HEARD this forecast, gone
sailing and got hammered. What is going on here? Is the NOAA
forecast that bad? I know that sitting at anchor you have few options
for getting weather but at a marina you at least have local weather
news too.

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:03:01 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

Wayne ,, just so you know .. the posting is a joke.. I don't want you
getting all up in arms.

No offense taken, we still have old sailing friends who feel the same
way.

It was a tough decision in some respects but in the end it made a lot
of sense for us as we progress into our retirement years. I've had
many good years of sailing on some of the finest boats you could
imagine, including a couple of my own which were more modestly sized
but very well equipped. I could still race every weekend if I wanted
to.

It all comes down to priorities. When I was younger we had more time
than money, and now things are reversed. The most important thing at
this point is spending time on the water and doing some good cruising.

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

On Feb 11, 8:00 pm, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:
There's no doubt we fouled up. I believe I've been candid about
that. I believe I've also been candid about how we got where we ended
up. If it weren't for the fact that they have no chance, I'd be a
Libertarian, which main - perhaps only - plank is personal
responsibility. Been that way since I was single-digit old...

I've been reading over these threads, and I'm afraid I'm a little
puzzled. Here you mention personal responsibility, but in another
post (http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.boats.cruising/msg/
02971c7d89cbc2ea?dmode=source&hl=en) you're advertising a collection
people are taking up for you. You've also been asking for a vehicle.

Did you intend to cruise full time? How did you plan on financing
that? It sounds like you have nothing beyond your damaged boat and
what others have given you. Do you have no savings? No credit cards
to draw on in times of need? Your kids who were flying into the
Bahamas can't advance you some cash to live on?

If you have nothing beyond your boat, was your plan to stop by the
Welfare Office of every jurisdiction you sailed into? Or do a
dignified kind of begging from individuals? Doesn't personal
responsibility mean you plan to provide for your own needs, rather
than planning to rely on the generosity of others?

Just puzzled, that's all.

Tim

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

"Frogwatch" wrote:

I think all this happed the week before last, maybe Thur ? Here in
Tallahassee, I'd heard of nasty weather moving in with very strong
wind forecast. On Thur (maybe it was Wed, I forget) I looked outside
of my door at the trees blowing around and thought "Damn, I'm sure
glad I'm not on the water". Skip says he had not heard a forcast for
nasty weather which I believe. I also remember the "Storm of the
Century" when we were due to leave that morn for a crusie but I'd
heard of a weird low in the west Gulf and decidded to wait. Oddly,
some sailors I met two weeks later HAD NOT HEARD this forecast, gone
sailing and got hammered. What is going on here? Is the NOAA
forecast that bad? I know that sitting at anchor you have few options
for getting weather but at a marina you at least have local weather
news too.

One of the things that is emphasized in the Thornless Path is that you
have to get the weather EVERY MORNING at the same time, and make a
notes on it so that you know what is going on - what fronts are coming
through.

I told Bob I would not go offshore at all (just in the ICW) unless I
had a SSB and could get weather on it. And I typically listened to
Herb several days in advance of when we were going anywhere, and then
every day after we left. And listened to what he was saying to people
in various areas - not just where we were. Active listening - trying
to anticipate what Herb would say and why he was saying it.. Even
though it might be inconvenient to do so, I think that's important.

In the Gulf, it might not be so easy because Herb doesn't typically do
the areas close to land in the Gulf, but in that case, I would get as
many different forecasts as possible - not only NOAA but also the
weather channel and local TV and radio.

Brief (Really!!) commentary and observations from Flying Pig
 

On Feb 14, 8:49 am, Rosalie B. wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote:
I think all this happed the week before last, maybe Thur ? Here in
Tallahassee, I'd heard of nasty weather moving in with very strong
wind forecast. On Thur (maybe it was Wed, I forget) I looked outside
of my door at the trees blowing around and thought "Damn, I'm sure
glad I'm not on the water". Skip says he had not heard a forcast for
nasty weather which I believe. I also remember the "Storm of the
Century" when we were due to leave that morn for a crusie but I'd
heard of a weird low in the west Gulf and decidded to wait. Oddly,
some sailors I met two weeks later HAD NOT HEARD this forecast, gone
sailing and got hammered. What is going on here? Is the NOAA
forecast that bad? I know that sitting at anchor you have few options
for getting weather but at a marina you at least have local weather
news too.

One of the things that is emphasized in the Thornless Path is that you
have to get the weather EVERY MORNING at the same time, and make a
notes on it so that you know what is going on - what fronts are coming
through.

I told Bob I would not go offshore at all (just in the ICW) unless I
had a SSB and could get weather on it. And I typically listened to
Herb several days in advance of when we were going anywhere, and then
every day after we left. And listened to what he was saying to people
in various areas - not just where we were. Active listening - trying
to anticipate what Herb would say and why he was saying it.. Even
though it might be inconvenient to do so, I think that's important.

In the Gulf, it might not be so easy because Herb doesn't typically do
the areas close to land in the Gulf, but in that case, I would get as
many different forecasts as possible - not only NOAA but also the
weather channel and local TV and radio.

Good Day Rosalie:

In past I we have had a few spats. But I must say that I support you
100% here. Not only on the obvious sound advice you just listed, also
the spirit guiding your words. To do as you say requires a fundamental
belief about your relationship with the sea. A relatoinship I suspect,
that has alowed you years of safe enjoyable adventures on the water. I
also belive will see you safe til you make that last walk up the
dock.

I hope the sun is shinning in your part of the world and you have a
spectacular view.
Bob

PS I agree, 71 is pushing your luck for a solo sail. ALthough my step
dad road his Harley Davidson Oregon coast to New York coast when he
was 70..........an back! But then he was one of thoes "Dead End Kids"
from Brooklin, NY who spent 30+ years on the water. Tough old bird.