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Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Saw this in another forum.
Both are safe but are homeless. Regards, Len. To: From: "George Huffman" thatboatguy2@... Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:17:37 -0000 Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help This is a cut and paste. If anyone can render assistance please do. I've emailed them to let them know I'll be in the area soon and I've offered my services free to the extent I can help. George Skip Gundlach to Morgan show details 2:29 pm (0 minutes ago) Please continue the dialogue going, as it's very comforting at the moment but... We are ashore, in the care of the Red Cross at the moment. Aside from the adrenalin rush and some bruises from being knocked around, we are entirely fine physically. Mentally we're more than bummed, as you can guess. Until salvage operations commence, which due to the weather (the main contributing factor to our blowing off course) won't be until tomorrow morning at the earliest, we won't know the realities. At a minimum, since the boat will be taken to Marathon, we could use some temporary hospitality there. There are definitely breaches in the starboard hull but the boat is very high and dry at the moment, on its side. We don't know what the pounding which caused a lot of flexing inside may have done to the bulkheads and tabbing, but the reefer and settee and engine mounts were all moving notably - not a really good sign. If there is any good news, the water was so shallow that it never got to the floorboards, even with the very severe heel, and when I went around shutting the through-hulls, I never got my hands wet. So, with any luck, the damage is mostly above the water line, presumed somewhat simpler to address and less likely to affect the integrity of the hull. None the less, it's certain we'll be some months, if ever, before we are back aboard, our only home, with every possession in the world, having given away our car the day we left. At any event, we can still be reached via email, when we have access, which will persist until tonight, at the Red Cross, and then at the Days Inn in KWW, we expect, where we'll be for the next three days. After that, we're truly homeless (does being in the RC or a Days Inn relieve us from homelessness? The boat was our entire world - our home and every single possession)... In any case, thank you for your prayers and thoughts. We're physically well, and mental basket cases, though we are managing to get things done. More as we know more. Feel free to pass this around to other lists on which we participate, as you may be aware if you're on them, too, from having seen our posts in those. Right now we're a bit busy to do that ourselves... L8R Love from Skip and Lydia, Homeless... |
Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
I'm as stunned as when hearing that someone died. For once, completely at a
loss for words.... |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Can anyone post a pointer to more details of what happened?
Sad, very sad... -- Geoff "Len" wrote in ups.com: Saw this in another forum. Both are safe but are homeless. Regards, Len. To: From: "George Huffman" thatboatguy2@... Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:17:37 -0000 Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help This is a cut and paste. If anyone can render assistance please do. I've emailed them to let them know I'll be in the area soon and I've offered my services free to the extent I can help. George Skip Gundlach to Morgan show details 2:29 pm (0 minutes ago) Please continue the dialogue going, as it's very comforting at the moment but... We are ashore, in the care of the Red Cross at the moment. Aside from the adrenalin rush and some bruises from being knocked around, we are entirely fine physically. Mentally we're more than bummed, as you can guess. Until salvage operations commence, which due to the weather (the main contributing factor to our blowing off course) won't be until tomorrow morning at the earliest, we won't know the realities. At a minimum, since the boat will be taken to Marathon, we could use some temporary hospitality there. There are definitely breaches in the starboard hull but the boat is very high and dry at the moment, on its side. We don't know what the pounding which caused a lot of flexing inside may have done to the bulkheads and tabbing, but the reefer and settee and engine mounts were all moving notably - not a really good sign. If there is any good news, the water was so shallow that it never got to the floorboards, even with the very severe heel, and when I went around shutting the through-hulls, I never got my hands wet. So, with any luck, the damage is mostly above the water line, presumed somewhat simpler to address and less likely to affect the integrity of the hull. None the less, it's certain we'll be some months, if ever, before we are back aboard, our only home, with every possession in the world, having given away our car the day we left. At any event, we can still be reached via email, when we have access, which will persist until tonight, at the Red Cross, and then at the Days Inn in KWW, we expect, where we'll be for the next three days. After that, we're truly homeless (does being in the RC or a Days Inn relieve us from homelessness? The boat was our entire world - our home and every single possession)... In any case, thank you for your prayers and thoughts. We're physically well, and mental basket cases, though we are managing to get things done. More as we know more. Feel free to pass this around to other lists on which we participate, as you may be aware if you're on them, too, from having seen our posts in those. Right now we're a bit busy to do that ourselves... L8R Love from Skip and Lydia, Homeless... |
Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 06:54:29 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote: I'm as stunned as when hearing that someone died. For once, completely at a loss for words.... Yep. I met Lydia and Skip up in St Pete a few months ago. Nice people. Tragic. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
A bit more info was posted:
[b]This just heard on local 12:00 noon Keys newscast. At midnight, 2 people were safely lifted from their 46' sailboat after going aground off Content Keys. Name of the boat: Flying Pig. Transiting from Ft. Myers thru Keys. 62 year old captain and mate are OK. Coast Guard and FWC monitoring the vessel. Content Key is on the Gulf side, north of Big Pine, about halfway between Key West and Marathon. We know that they were headed to Marathon from St. Pete; possibly they got pushed west by some weather. However, Content is way west of the route from Cape Sable to Marathon, so I'm guessing they were on a different route. Hopefully, they'll be able to save the boat. Geoff Schultz wrote: Can anyone post a pointer to more details of what happened? Sad, very sad... -- Geoff "Len" wrote in ups.com: Saw this in another forum. Both are safe but are homeless. Regards, Len. To: From: "George Huffman" thatboatguy2@... Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:17:37 -0000 Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help This is a cut and paste. If anyone can render assistance please do. I've emailed them to let them know I'll be in the area soon and I've offered my services free to the extent I can help. George Skip Gundlach to Morgan show details 2:29 pm (0 minutes ago) Please continue the dialogue going, as it's very comforting at the moment but... We are ashore, in the care of the Red Cross at the moment. Aside from the adrenalin rush and some bruises from being knocked around, we are entirely fine physically. Mentally we're more than bummed, as you can guess. Until salvage operations commence, which due to the weather (the main contributing factor to our blowing off course) won't be until tomorrow morning at the earliest, we won't know the realities. At a minimum, since the boat will be taken to Marathon, we could use some temporary hospitality there. There are definitely breaches in the starboard hull but the boat is very high and dry at the moment, on its side. We don't know what the pounding which caused a lot of flexing inside may have done to the bulkheads and tabbing, but the reefer and settee and engine mounts were all moving notably - not a really good sign. If there is any good news, the water was so shallow that it never got to the floorboards, even with the very severe heel, and when I went around shutting the through-hulls, I never got my hands wet. So, with any luck, the damage is mostly above the water line, presumed somewhat simpler to address and less likely to affect the integrity of the hull. None the less, it's certain we'll be some months, if ever, before we are back aboard, our only home, with every possession in the world, having given away our car the day we left. At any event, we can still be reached via email, when we have access, which will persist until tonight, at the Red Cross, and then at the Days Inn in KWW, we expect, where we'll be for the next three days. After that, we're truly homeless (does being in the RC or a Days Inn relieve us from homelessness? The boat was our entire world - our home and every single possession)... In any case, thank you for your prayers and thoughts. We're physically well, and mental basket cases, though we are managing to get things done. More as we know more. Feel free to pass this around to other lists on which we participate, as you may be aware if you're on them, too, from having seen our posts in those. Right now we're a bit busy to do that ourselves... L8R Love from Skip and Lydia, Homeless... |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
"Jeff" wrote in message . .. A bit more info was posted: [b]This just heard on local 12:00 noon Keys newscast. At midnight, 2 people were safely lifted from their 46' sailboat after going aground off Content Keys. Name of the boat: Flying Pig. Transiting from Ft. Myers thru Keys. 62 year old captain and mate are OK. Coast Guard and FWC monitoring the vessel. snip.. Glad to hear they are ok...hope they have enough insurance on the boat to cover the financial problems. Hard to believe their dream shattered so soon after years of planning. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:43:27 -0500, Jeff wrote:
Content Key is on the Gulf side, north of Big Pine, about halfway between Key West and Marathon. About 19 miles west of the rhumb line into Moser Channel and Marathon. There was some mention of being "blown off course". We've had 20 kt easterlies for the last week up until today, but 19 miles is a big offset on a 120 mile reach south from Ft Myers. Something must have gone seriously awry. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:43:27 -0500, Jeff wrote: Content Key is on the Gulf side, north of Big Pine, about halfway between Key West and Marathon. About 19 miles west of the rhumb line into Moser Channel and Marathon. There was some mention of being "blown off course". We've had 20 kt easterlies for the last week up until today, but 19 miles is a big offset on a 120 mile reach south from Ft Myers. Something must have gone seriously awry. My thoughts also. I was studying charts of the area this morning trying to figure out how they ended up at Comfort Keys -- hopefully Skip will be able to get online soon and fill us in. I'm totally baffled, and still somewhat in shock over this, and can't believe their voyage may end so soon. Here's to the good ship Flying Pig and her stalwart crew -- may they sail again! |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:43:27 -0500, Jeff wrote: Content Key is on the Gulf side, north of Big Pine, about halfway between Key West and Marathon. About 19 miles west of the rhumb line into Moser Channel and Marathon. There was some mention of being "blown off course". We've had 20 kt easterlies for the last week up until today, but 19 miles is a big offset on a 120 mile reach south from Ft Myers. Something must have gone seriously awry. My thoughts also. I was studying charts of the area this morning trying to figure out how they ended up at Comfort Keys -- hopefully Skip will be able to get online soon and fill us in. I'm totally baffled, and still somewhat in shock over this, and can't believe their voyage may end so soon. Here's to the good ship Flying Pig and her stalwart crew -- may they sail again! They had planned to go from St. Petersburg to Marathon. Rather than sail around Key West, most people opt to take Big Spanish channel. The entrance to the channel is about 3 nm NNE of the Content Keys. there is a lighted marker (G57) at the channel entrance. That's the only lighted marker until you get east of No Name Key. Most people I know do not attempt to run this channel at night. They wait at Cape Sable and leave at first light in order to run the channel in daylight. According to my GRIB file the wind at 1AM Feb 6 was 25-30 KN from the NE with 7-8 ft. seas. Most likely, if he turned SE at G57, he didn't allow for the strong wind, missed "G55" (unlighted) and ended up on Harbor Key Bank (1-2 ft.). krj |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:47:20 -0500, krj
wrote: They had planned to go from St. Petersburg to Marathon. Rather than sail around Key West, most people opt to take Big Spanish channel. The entrance to the channel is about 3 nm NNE of the Content Keys. there is a lighted marker (G57) at the channel entrance. That's the only lighted marker until you get east of No Name Key. Most people I know do not attempt to run this channel at night. They wait at Cape Sable and leave at first light in order to run the channel in daylight. According to my GRIB file the wind at 1AM Feb 6 was 25-30 KN from the NE with 7-8 ft. seas. Most likely, if he turned SE at G57, he didn't allow for the strong wind, missed "G55" (unlighted) and ended up on Harbor Key Bank (1-2 ft.). krj Skip's boat draws 6 1/2 feet which is too much for Big Spanish channel in my opinion, especially at night. I draw 5 1/2 and don't take Big Spanish even during the day. The channel south from Bullard Bank and Red Bay Bank into Moser Channel is much deeper and easier to negotiate. I pointed that out to Skip several times on this group. http://tinyurl.com/3b8c42 |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:47:20 -0500, krj wrote: They had planned to go from St. Petersburg to Marathon. Rather than sail around Key West, most people opt to take Big Spanish channel. The entrance to the channel is about 3 nm NNE of the Content Keys. there is a lighted marker (G57) at the channel entrance. That's the only lighted marker until you get east of No Name Key. Most people I know do not attempt to run this channel at night. They wait at Cape Sable and leave at first light in order to run the channel in daylight. According to my GRIB file the wind at 1AM Feb 6 was 25-30 KN from the NE with 7-8 ft. seas. Most likely, if he turned SE at G57, he didn't allow for the strong wind, missed "G55" (unlighted) and ended up on Harbor Key Bank (1-2 ft.). krj Skip's boat draws 6 1/2 feet which is too much for Big Spanish channel in my opinion, especially at night. I draw 5 1/2 and don't take Big Spanish even during the day. The channel south from Bullard Bank and Red Bay Bank into Moser Channel is much deeper and easier to negotiate. I pointed that out to Skip several times on this group. http://tinyurl.com/3b8c42 I wasn't aware that Skip's boat drew 6 1/2 feet. In that case you are correct. The area south of Big Spanish Key can be only 5 feet. Rocky channel south of Bullfrog Banks would be much better, however it isn't a marked channel. But with waypoints programmed into the GPS it isn't hard to follow. We only draw 4 feet but also use Rocky Channel. krj |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:47:20 -0500, krj wrote: They had planned to go from St. Petersburg to Marathon. Rather than sail around Key West, most people opt to take Big Spanish channel. The entrance to the channel is about 3 nm NNE of the Content Keys. there is a lighted marker (G57) at the channel entrance. That's the only lighted marker until you get east of No Name Key. Most people I know do not attempt to run this channel at night. They wait at Cape Sable and leave at first light in order to run the channel in daylight. According to my GRIB file the wind at 1AM Feb 6 was 25-30 KN from the NE with 7-8 ft. seas. Most likely, if he turned SE at G57, he didn't allow for the strong wind, missed "G55" (unlighted) and ended up on Harbor Key Bank (1-2 ft.). krj Skip's boat draws 6 1/2 feet which is too much for Big Spanish channel in my opinion, especially at night. I draw 5 1/2 and don't take Big Spanish even during the day. The channel south from Bullard Bank and Red Bay Bank into Moser Channel is much deeper and easier to negotiate. I pointed that out to Skip several times on this group. http://tinyurl.com/3b8c42 Is his mast short enough to get under the Moser Channel bridge? |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
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Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Geoff Schultz wrote in
: Here's the e-mail that I received earlier today: Me too. I'm monitoring Skype with it set to alarm when Skip comes online from the laptop at the motel. Nothing yet. Sure glad they're OK..... Larry -- Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner. Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
et: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:43:27 -0500, Jeff wrote: Content Key is on the Gulf side, north of Big Pine, about halfway between Key West and Marathon. About 19 miles west of the rhumb line into Moser Channel and Marathon. There was some mention of being "blown off course". We've had 20 kt easterlies for the last week up until today, but 19 miles is a big offset on a 120 mile reach south from Ft Myers. Something must have gone seriously awry. My thoughts also. I was studying charts of the area this morning trying to figure out how they ended up at Comfort Keys -- hopefully Skip will be able to get online soon and fill us in. I'm totally baffled, and still somewhat in shock over this, and can't believe their voyage may end so soon. Here's to the good ship Flying Pig and her stalwart crew -- may they sail again! Everyone should look at Google Earth of the area in The Keys. Content Key is one of the barrier keys on the Gulf side. Google Earth's satellite photography of this area has fantastic pictures of the sea bed in all this shallow water. You can even see obstructions in the "channels" all up and down The Keys. My condolences to anyone who has a 6' draft keel sticking down into this freak of nature. Best ways to see The Keys is by CAR! Larry -- Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner. Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 17:26:56 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote: Actually Lydia wrote: Before I get carried away for hours and hours with this email, I'm sending it out. I assure you that we are physically well, albeit, mentally fatigued and emotionally broken at the moment, but I'm sure things will improve once we can get a damage report. I wish Skip and Lydia had done that trip a little differently and stopped off a few places along the way. We usually put in at Venice or Boca Grande coming south from St Pete. Ft Myers or Marco Island makes a good second stop. We did a one day hop on January 12 from Marco to Key West with the wind blowing 25+ out of the east. We took some of the worst rolls we've ever experienced that day, and were plenty glad to get in before dark. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
I've been looking at the charts too. The only route that makes sense
for me is to have headed down the Rocky Channel which is just N of Content Cay. The charts show that it carries 15' until you get N of Little Spanish Cay at which point you've got 7+ feet. Unfortunately this is virtually unmarked and who knows what the hurricanes have done to it. This is an area that I would never pass unless I had great light. It appears that it was around 5 PM when they went aground and there wouldn't have been much light at that point. I must admit that I also don't understand why they left when they did. The NWS forecast was for 20-25 kts and 6-8' seas. I know that they wanted to get going, but I always say: "You can't pick the weather that you sail in, but you can pick the weather that you leave in." All in all this is a very sad day for them and my sympathies go out to Skip & Lydia. I just wish them the best. -- Geoff Larry wrote in : "KLC Lewis" wrote in et: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:43:27 -0500, Jeff wrote: Content Key is on the Gulf side, north of Big Pine, about halfway between Key West and Marathon. About 19 miles west of the rhumb line into Moser Channel and Marathon. There was some mention of being "blown off course". We've had 20 kt easterlies for the last week up until today, but 19 miles is a big offset on a 120 mile reach south from Ft Myers. Something must have gone seriously awry. My thoughts also. I was studying charts of the area this morning trying to figure out how they ended up at Comfort Keys -- hopefully Skip will be able to get online soon and fill us in. I'm totally baffled, and still somewhat in shock over this, and can't believe their voyage may end so soon. Here's to the good ship Flying Pig and her stalwart crew -- may they sail again! Everyone should look at Google Earth of the area in The Keys. Content Key is one of the barrier keys on the Gulf side. Google Earth's satellite photography of this area has fantastic pictures of the sea bed in all this shallow water. You can even see obstructions in the "channels" all up and down The Keys. My condolences to anyone who has a 6' draft keel sticking down into this freak of nature. Best ways to see The Keys is by CAR! Larry |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
I lay awake last night thinking about Skip and Lydia and worrying that
people would mis-construe my comments. This event has really bothered me and I just keep thinking about it. Believe me, I'm not trying to second guess Skip's decisions or bash anyone. I've just been trying to understand. The first thing that confused me was where they were. I've only been up and down that section of coast 2 times and I've never considered approaching Marathon from the Gulf side. Maybe I would do it now with 30,000+ miles under my keel, but conditions would have to be perfect. Not on my first real trip in the dark with 8' seas and 20+ kts of wind. I just can't imagine the terror of going aground in those conditions. I've gone aground in rather benign circumstances and know how much my heart was pounding. With 8' seas, there must have been a huge surf line and to be caught in that must have been incredibly scary. I also can't imagine what it would be like to be hoisted off my boat...my home...that I have lovingly worked on for years...while watching the sea pound away at it. Every time that I've seen video of this before, it's always been of people that I didn't know. This is different. This is someone that I've corresponded with for years as he worked on the boat. I've been watching Skip's efforts for years and was cheering him on as he got ready to leave. I was stunned when this happened. Maybe it's the feeling that "there but for the grace of God go I." Anyone who has spent enough time on the water can reflect upon poor choices that they've made. Many times you get away with them relatively unscathed. Rarely is it a single item that caused the event. Generally it's a cascade effect. I mean, what would have happened if their water pump hadn't broken and they left when they had planned? Maybe the same thing...maybe not. Who knows? Anyhow, my heart and sympathies go out to Skip and Lydia. Please let us know what we can do to help. -- Geoff Geoff Schultz wrote in 6: I've been looking at the charts too. The only route that makes sense for me is to have headed down the Rocky Channel which is just N of Content Cay. The charts show that it carries 15' until you get N of Little Spanish Cay at which point you've got 7+ feet. Unfortunately this is virtually unmarked and who knows what the hurricanes have done to it. This is an area that I would never pass unless I had great light. It appears that it was around 5 PM when they went aground and there wouldn't have been much light at that point. I must admit that I also don't understand why they left when they did. The NWS forecast was for 20-25 kts and 6-8' seas. I know that they wanted to get going, but I always say: "You can't pick the weather that you sail in, but you can pick the weather that you leave in." All in all this is a very sad day for them and my sympathies go out to Skip & Lydia. I just wish them the best. -- Geoff Larry wrote in : "KLC Lewis" wrote in et: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:43:27 -0500, Jeff wrote: Content Key is on the Gulf side, north of Big Pine, about halfway between Key West and Marathon. About 19 miles west of the rhumb line into Moser Channel and Marathon. There was some mention of being "blown off course". We've had 20 kt easterlies for the last week up until today, but 19 miles is a big offset on a 120 mile reach south from Ft Myers. Something must have gone seriously awry. My thoughts also. I was studying charts of the area this morning trying to figure out how they ended up at Comfort Keys -- hopefully Skip will be able to get online soon and fill us in. I'm totally baffled, and still somewhat in shock over this, and can't believe their voyage may end so soon. Here's to the good ship Flying Pig and her stalwart crew -- may they sail again! Everyone should look at Google Earth of the area in The Keys. Content Key is one of the barrier keys on the Gulf side. Google Earth's satellite photography of this area has fantastic pictures of the sea bed in all this shallow water. You can even see obstructions in the "channels" all up and down The Keys. My condolences to anyone who has a 6' draft keel sticking down into this freak of nature. Best ways to see The Keys is by CAR! Larry |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Geoff Schultz wrote in
: The first thing that confused me was where they were. I've only been up and down that section of coast 2 times and I've never considered approaching Marathon from the Gulf side. Maybe I would do it now with 30,000+ miles under my keel, but conditions would have to be perfect. Not on my first real trip in the dark with 8' seas and 20+ kts of wind. After talking live with Lydia long after the event and having been dead exhausted and confused myself, luckily in deep water, I can understand what happened. They lost focus mixed with a little panic attack. It's that simple. I'm near Skip's age and in good condition compared to others I know. My limits in big water are about 12-14 hours before I've had it. I wouldn't sail out there with just a woman my age for relief. I know, I know, lots do it and get away with it. Old and bold? I also think approaching Marathon from that side was the way wrong decision and would have said so to them had I known about it, even in the best conditions...it's TOO CLOSE TO THE BOTTOM! Anyone looking at a "chart", made years ago even if you just bought it, needs a reality check. Today, that's gotten real easy, Google Earth, whos pictures are only a few months old of the USA and updated regularly. In the Keys, you can SEE the bottom and the reefs and the flow of the currents from the trails in the bottom. Put in Marathon, FL and take a look at it. What a TERRIBLE place to go sailing! This area would be awful in a flats boat! Running aground with a 6' keel is inevitable, not just a chance. Google Earth is free from http://earth.google.com/ Look at the bottom where YOU sail. Larry -- Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on who's for dinner. Liberty is when the sheep has his own gun. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:03:10 -0500, Larry wrote:
Put in Marathon, FL and take a look at it. What a TERRIBLE place to go sailing! This area would be awful in a flats boat! Running aground with a 6' keel is inevitable, not just a chance. Google Earth is free from http://earth.google.com/ Look at the bottom where YOU sail. It's not quite that bad. We've run both north and south from Marathon never seeing less than 7 feet or so. You do have to be careful however and stay very close to your route. Sailing it would not be advisable except in ideal conditions. If there is one single lesson to be learned from this, I think it is to be *very* wary of becoming fatigued, particularly in bad conditions and close quarters. I've had some personal experience with this and it is all to easy to find yourself making questionable decisions after you've been on the go for a day or two. I don't want to sound like I'm second guessing, but there are any number of good places to seek shelter from an easterly coming south along Florida's west coast. There was a case in the northeast a number of years ago where a woman was sailing transatlantic from England to Newport, Rhode Island. After several days of fog and rough weather she made a navigational error, mistaking Pt Judith Light for Brenton Tower. After successfully sailing over 3,000 miles, she parked the boat on the rocks at Pt Judith. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Just a very quickie for perspective:
We left Sunday morning ~11, wing and wing to the Sunshine Skyway at 7 knots. Forecasts for the entire week we left (I'd been monitoring them for a month) were for 10-15NE the entire way down - perfect for our cruise down. It was so perfect we kept going rather than divert from offshore. We stood to make it in under 30 hours, before dark the second day. Rarely dropped under 6, mostly in the 8s, and even flirted with 10 KSOG briefly. Things went to hell in a handbasket in a hurry. Winds built to 20+, then got worse, with matching seas. Dropped all sails and attempted to motor toward Cape Sable. Absolutely awful. No progress whatever in ~4 hours. Raised to third reef main only, stabilized and sailing fine, if wobbly due to the following seas. Wanted to sail around to nowhere until dark got finished (the foregoing was at ~7PM), considered going around Key West. Delivery captain in yard we left had given us detailed instructions, having done it over 200 times. This group and the dozen or so lists I am on, during my extensive search for info last year (because I was concerned about the feasibility) had countless respondents saying we'd be just fine and to quit worrying, generally accusing us of over- researching everything we ever did on this boat, and accept what we were told, which was it was very doable, no problem, etc.. I've now come to regard local knowledge as suspect, if not malicious, as, this and too many instances have proven to be not only inaccurate but dangerously so. Conditions worsened dramatically - a squall line came through about 10PM - and is what did us in, in addition to some operator and equipment malfunction. As is my wont, when the salt spray has been washed off (no dust to settle) there will be a complete and candid assessment and report, including hundreds of pictures on our gallery. For now, the insurance company isn't ready to total it, but likewise nearly certainly won't pay for all the repairs, and if my understanding of the policy is accurate, will leave about a 25k shortfall on the removal (salvor's fee was 30, policy looks to cover ~7, and then there was the emergency midnight haulout at the yard, yada yada). Flying Pig most likely will fly again,but now has a broken wing and a broken heart - but as yet her spirit isn't broken! Woulda, coulda, shoulda, and hindsight is always 20-20. We're alive, the boat is substantially intact, and there's nothing money can't fix. On which subject, for those so inclined rather than finger-pointing, an attorney in the Morgan sailnet list has set up a trust for us: I've posted some traffic about that immediately following this post. Think and do what you will in those regards - it's out of our hands, but we know we are very well watched and watched over... Sorry I can't do more right now - I"m pretty well over my head at the moment... L8R Skip, interrupted |
A thread on trust fund(s) Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
As referenced in the immediately prior post ...
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Feb 8, 2007 12:22 AM Subject: [morgan] Flying Pig Fund To: morgan Julia Morgan in In a message dated 2/7/2007 1:46:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, writes: Fellow Morganeers, I have been following, along with you, Flying Pig's progress over these many months, and the tragedy that occurred this week. I have NOT talked with Skip, and I am not asking his permission to do this, but I'm doing it anyway. I'm a lawyer, have a trust account and a most capable and willing assistant, Karen. We will accept donations for the Flying Pig's fine crew in their time of need. Regardless of how financially secure they may be or what insurance consequences may (eventually) entail, salvage and all, there is one thing we can all relate to, and it's the $$$ every one of us would need SAP in such a tragic circumstance. I have established a Trust Fund account in the name of "Flying Pig." As of today, it contains $100. It is my intention to collect whatever anyone wishes to donate and forward the funds to our friends heading for Marathon. We don't do credit cards here, but if you would like to help out Flying Pig's crew - anonymously - you can send a check payable to: "Flying Pig, c/o Wm. V. Hoyle Jr., Esq." Each of those checks we receive will be acknowledged to the donor(s), and, come Hell or high water, will go to Skip and the admiral as soon as I can track them down. I can't fix broken bones, restore lost loved ones or make tragedies go away. I have striven, however, to improve the quality of life for the past quarter century for those who have suffered a loss. As I said, I'm only a lawyer. Our mailing address is: William V. Hoyle Jr., P.C. 10401 Warwick Blvd. Newport News, VA 23601 Office phone: 757.596-1850 With my best wishes to all, Bill Hoyle OI 33 Sunbird Newport News, VA __/) O ~~~~ Tom CPA Skipper of The Julia Morgan Julia Morgan was the Architect that designed Hearst Castle - The name was picked by daughter honor given to her because she will inherit the boat when I can no longer sail. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rich Shapiro Date: Feb 8, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [morgan] [morganowners] Donations for Skip and Lydia To: morgan That all sounds wonderful. I'm hoping that as Skip and Lydia's situation clarifies and settles, it will continue to develop in a positive direction. Rich -----Original Message----- From: habeas ] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:21 AM To: morgan Subject: [morgan] [morganowners] Donations for Skip and Lydia Thanks greatly, Karl. This should allow for a fast-track and convenient way for those who wish to contribute by credit card or debit -- whatever PayPal accepts. I'll be happy for forward anything received from anyone. It was my intention to simply send Skip and Lydia a Cashier's check from the anonymous collective, but if anyone wishes for me to forward any comments, name(s) or the amount of donation, please let me know and I'll do that. My thought was that with one or two anonymous cheques to them, there would be no way -- or temptation or sense of obligation -- for Skip and Lydia to accept the money as anything other than a GIFT of caring from their seafaring family. Karen and I intend to acknowledge to each contributor what amount(s) he or she has contributed, for tax or other purposes, so please include your name, address, phone number and e-mail with either a credit card donation through Karl's PayPal or cheque sent to: Our mailing address is: William V. Hoyle Jr., P.C. 10401 Warwick Blvd. Newport News, VA 23601 Office phone: 757.596-1850 My personal cell phone is 757.570-1970 (This is how to reach ME). Karl Burton's e-mail address, for PayPal contributions, is: Has anyone been able to post this info on any other list-servers? With thanks to all, Bill Hoyle OI 33 Sunbird Newport News, VA 23601 _/) O ~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Karl Burton [mailto: ] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:09 AM To: Subject: [morgan] [morganowners] Donations for Skip and Lydia I have a Paypal account that is set up to be able to accept credit card payments, as well as the usual bank transfer type payment. If someone wants to make a payment that way, they can go to paypal and send a payment to . Be sure to enter in the notes/comments area anything that you want passed on, or identification for me to pass on. There will be some fee I'll have to pay for taking credit card payments - it isn't that much, and I'll cover it so that your donation will pass through at full value. I'll send any money I collect, and the donor information, on to habeas and he can combine it with the checks he gets for the trust fund. At 10:35 PM 2/7/2007, you wrote: I know from a post on the other list that the gentleman setting up the trust is not willing to deal with Paypal, as the issue has already been raised. There is another issue with Paypal: to withdraw more than a small amount ($400, I think) a month, one has to have a commercial grade account and a "verified" bank account. The commercial grade account levies transaction fees of about 2.5% on received payments. Also, it takes a week or so to verify a bank account. If Skip and Lydia do want to post a Paypal address, a list of objects they need that other Morganeers can donate, or an address to send contributions directly, I would welcome it. Rich Moderator -----Original Message----- From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of sv.horizon Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:19 PM To: Subject: [morganowners] Donations for Skip and Lydia PayPal is a quick and easy way to send money to anyone with an email address. It is a part of eBay and very safe. The receiving party does not have to have a PayPal account at the time the money is sent. You can sign up for an account at https://www.paypal.com/ https://www.paypal.com/ and use a CC or bank account to draw from. I have used it for years for ebay and to send money to individuls and me This wasn't my or our idea; as seen, it was done before we knew about it. None the less, I have no doubt it will be helpful. More than our life's savings are invested in Flying Pig - it literally represents the only material goods we have left, having given away our car as we left, and long ago having given away everything else not on the boat. L8R Skip and Lydia -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at and "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Skip and Lydia,
Thanks for your report. I can't imagine anyone not taking off under the conditions you reported -- an apparently perfect weather window? Who wouldn't jump at the chance? I'm sorry things went south on you, but am very glad that you are both alive and well, and unless I miss my guess, with spirits slightly damp, but far from broken. I hope that the insurance company comes through, and urge you to fight for a favorable outcome, however that is best defined. Flying Pig back on the wing with a happy crew would make me a very happy camper. :-) Karin "Skip Gundlach" wrote in message ups.com... Just a very quickie for perspective: We left Sunday morning ~11, wing and wing to the Sunshine Skyway at 7 knots. Forecasts for the entire week we left (I'd been monitoring them for a month) were for 10-15NE the entire way down - perfect for our cruise down. It was so perfect we kept going rather than divert from offshore. We stood to make it in under 30 hours, before dark the second day. Rarely dropped under 6, mostly in the 8s, and even flirted with 10 KSOG briefly. Things went to hell in a handbasket in a hurry. Winds built to 20+, then got worse, with matching seas. Dropped all sails and attempted to motor toward Cape Sable. Absolutely awful. No progress whatever in ~4 hours. Raised to third reef main only, stabilized and sailing fine, if wobbly due to the following seas. Wanted to sail around to nowhere until dark got finished (the foregoing was at ~7PM), considered going around Key West. Delivery captain in yard we left had given us detailed instructions, having done it over 200 times. This group and the dozen or so lists I am on, during my extensive search for info last year (because I was concerned about the feasibility) had countless respondents saying we'd be just fine and to quit worrying, generally accusing us of over- researching everything we ever did on this boat, and accept what we were told, which was it was very doable, no problem, etc.. I've now come to regard local knowledge as suspect, if not malicious, as, this and too many instances have proven to be not only inaccurate but dangerously so. Conditions worsened dramatically - a squall line came through about 10PM - and is what did us in, in addition to some operator and equipment malfunction. As is my wont, when the salt spray has been washed off (no dust to settle) there will be a complete and candid assessment and report, including hundreds of pictures on our gallery. For now, the insurance company isn't ready to total it, but likewise nearly certainly won't pay for all the repairs, and if my understanding of the policy is accurate, will leave about a 25k shortfall on the removal (salvor's fee was 30, policy looks to cover ~7, and then there was the emergency midnight haulout at the yard, yada yada). Flying Pig most likely will fly again,but now has a broken wing and a broken heart - but as yet her spirit isn't broken! Woulda, coulda, shoulda, and hindsight is always 20-20. We're alive, the boat is substantially intact, and there's nothing money can't fix. On which subject, for those so inclined rather than finger-pointing, an attorney in the Morgan sailnet list has set up a trust for us: I've posted some traffic about that immediately following this post. Think and do what you will in those regards - it's out of our hands, but we know we are very well watched and watched over... Sorry I can't do more right now - I"m pretty well over my head at the moment... L8R Skip, interrupted |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Skip,
So sorry to hear about your misfortune. We're very glad that you and Lydia are ok. Things will look better a few days from now. Don W. Skip Gundlach wrote: Just a very quickie for perspective: We left Sunday morning ~11, wing and wing to the Sunshine Skyway at 7 knots. Forecasts for the entire week we left (I'd been monitoring them for a month) were for 10-15NE the entire way down - perfect for our cruise down. It was so perfect we kept going rather than divert from offshore. |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
Skip Gundlach wrote:
Just a very quickie for perspective: We left Sunday morning ~11, wing and wing to the Sunshine Skyway at 7 knots. Forecasts for the entire week we left (I'd been monitoring them for a month) were for 10-15NE the entire way down - perfect for our cruise down. It was so perfect we kept going rather than divert from offshore. We stood to make it in under 30 hours, before dark the second day. Rarely dropped under 6, mostly in the 8s, and even flirted with 10 KSOG briefly. Things went to hell in a handbasket in a hurry. Winds built to 20+, then got worse, with matching seas. Dropped all sails and attempted to motor toward Cape Sable. Absolutely awful. No progress whatever in ~4 hours. Raised to third reef main only, stabilized and sailing fine, if wobbly due to the following seas. Wanted to sail around to nowhere until dark got finished (the foregoing was at ~7PM), considered going around Key West. Delivery captain in yard we left had given us detailed instructions, having done it over 200 times. This group and the dozen or so lists I am on, during my extensive search for info last year (because I was concerned about the feasibility) had countless respondents saying we'd be just fine and to quit worrying, generally accusing us of over- researching everything we ever did on this boat, and accept what we were told, which was it was very doable, no problem, etc.. I've now come to regard local knowledge as suspect, if not malicious, as, this and too many instances have proven to be not only inaccurate but dangerously so. Conditions worsened dramatically - a squall line came through about 10PM - and is what did us in, in addition to some operator and equipment malfunction. As is my wont, when the salt spray has been washed off (no dust to settle) there will be a complete and candid assessment and report, including hundreds of pictures on our gallery. For now, the insurance company isn't ready to total it, but likewise nearly certainly won't pay for all the repairs, and if my understanding of the policy is accurate, will leave about a 25k shortfall on the removal (salvor's fee was 30, policy looks to cover ~7, and then there was the emergency midnight haulout at the yard, yada yada). Flying Pig most likely will fly again,but now has a broken wing and a broken heart - but as yet her spirit isn't broken! Woulda, coulda, shoulda, and hindsight is always 20-20. We're alive, the boat is substantially intact, and there's nothing money can't fix. On which subject, for those so inclined rather than finger-pointing, an attorney in the Morgan sailnet list has set up a trust for us: I've posted some traffic about that immediately following this post. Think and do what you will in those regards - it's out of our hands, but we know we are very well watched and watched over... Sorry I can't do more right now - I"m pretty well over my head at the moment... L8R Skip, interrupted Don't know where you got your weather Skip, but the GRIB file I got from sailnet.docs on 02/03 show that at by 7 pm 02/05 the wind was forecast to be NE at 25 and seas of 7-8 feet. On a two day passage I always look for four days of good weather. krj |
Fwd: Subject: [TheDingyDock] Skip and Lydia Gundlach need help
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:
Just a very quickie for perspective: Most of the time when we get in trouble it is because of Bob wanting to go and persuading me against my better judgment. We've been lucky in that each time we've made it through. We lost a solar panel and almost lost the dinghy and motor once. And we got water into the aft cabin on one occasion (over the side). And on one occasion early on, I was at the wheel and came into the wind and insisted that he furl the sails. But as I said, we've been lucky. The main result of my caution is to have Bob periodically accuse me of being chicken. And I guess I am, but that's OK. |
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