Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

I may, or may not repower my boat. But, if I was to, where would one start
in a search for a new small diesel to repower a sailboat?

Is there a trick to finding a deal? Boat shows? I seem to remember someone
here mentioning boat show specials.

I am going to keep my eyes open for a small ( 16-20 hp ) diesel . If I see
a good deal, snatch it up. Then take my time putting in in after taking out
the old.

But, where to keep those eyes looking .. that is the question.

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:36:44 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

I may, or may not repower my boat. But, if I was to, where would one start
in a search for a new small diesel to repower a sailboat?

Is there a trick to finding a deal? Boat shows? I seem to remember someone
here mentioning boat show specials.

I am going to keep my eyes open for a small ( 16-20 hp ) diesel . If I see
a good deal, snatch it up. Then take my time putting in in after taking out
the old.

But, where to keep those eyes looking .. that is the question.


Boat shows can be productive. Get to know your local dealers and keep
an eye on EBAY also.

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

In article wQmfh.3316$it5.2139@trndny06,
"NE Sailboat" wrote:

I may, or may not repower my boat. But, if I was to, where would one start
in a search for a new small diesel to repower a sailboat?

Is there a trick to finding a deal? Boat shows? I seem to remember someone
here mentioning boat show specials.

I am going to keep my eyes open for a small ( 16-20 hp ) diesel . If I see
a good deal, snatch it up. Then take my time putting in in after taking out
the old.

But, where to keep those eyes looking .. that is the question.

If you have a diesel, rebuild it or get a rebuilt one. Otherwise, see if
your boat had a drop-in diesel when it was built and concentrate on that
series, as making up a proper new bed is either no fun or very expensive.

A modern diesel would require replacing just about everything, which
jacks up the price.

We repowered with a Yanmar over a decade and LOVE it, but if we knew
what we know now, I'd have gotten a rebuilt Volvo MD and new prop,
saving a bunch of B.O.A.T. bucks.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

At 20 HP, you're in the "Atomic 4 Replacemnt" group, which is well
populated.
Several manufacturers offer 'Atomic 4 Replacement' diesel engines. Many
are based on the same Kubota 3 cylinder block, the only difference
being the 'marinization' of the engine.
Yanmar has a similar size / weight engine which is not based on Kubota
- it's a Yanmar (!), the Vetus is a Mitsubishi, and I believe the
Volvo is a Perkins

Here's the list:

Universal M3-20B
Phasor Marine P3-20-SM
Beta Marine BD722

Yanmar 3YM20
Westerbeke 20B2 or 30B3
Vetus M 3.09
Volvo D1-20

I saw this engine at the Annapolis show, and it has some nice features

Lombardini LDW 702 M


If weight is a concern, the first 3 (the Kubota derivatives) and the
Lombardini have a
'dry' weight of around 230 lbs. The last four are closer to 290 lbs.

The Volvo is slower turning (3200 RPM vs 3600 for the rest) *and* comes
standard with a whopping 115 Amp alternator.

The cost of the basic engine + standard gear reduction (less high-end
meter/light panel or other options) is *around* 5.8 - 8.5K$US. Often
the best deals are had at boat shows, so if you're looking to save $,
enquire at a major show. This price does *not* include installation;
you get the engine on a wooden pallet.


MW

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

Boat shows are good for maybe 7 to 10% discount. If you want to save some
big bucks find an industrial dealer for the brand you are interested in.
The lowest price I found for my Yanmar 4JH4 from all the "marine" repowering
companies authorized to sell in Georgia was $12,100 plus "delivery costs" of
$450 and shipping. At the Miami boat show the dealer wanted 11,200 plus
delivery costs of $400 and shipping. Accidentally working from an
industrial dealer list on the Yanmar site I contacted W.W.Williams in
Atlanta. They sell industrial tractor and stationary engines but through
their Savannah office ordered me one for $9,500 and took AMEX so I got 9500
frequent flyer points as a bonus.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:wQmfh.3316$it5.2139@trndny06...
I may, or may not repower my boat. But, if I was to, where would one start
in a search for a new small diesel to repower a sailboat?

Is there a trick to finding a deal? Boat shows? I seem to remember
someone here mentioning boat show specials.

I am going to keep my eyes open for a small ( 16-20 hp ) diesel . If I
see a good deal, snatch it up. Then take my time putting in in after
taking out the old.

But, where to keep those eyes looking .. that is the question.

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:wQmfh.3316$it5.2139@trndny06...
I may, or may not repower my boat. But, if I was to, where would
one start in a search for a new small diesel to repower a
sailboat?

Is there a trick to finding a deal? Boat shows? I seem to
remember someone here mentioning boat show specials.

I am going to keep my eyes open for a small ( 16-20 hp ) diesel
. If I see a good deal, snatch it up. Then take my time
putting in in after taking out the old.


A different make of engine usually means a new engine bed, perhaps
re-alignment of the shaft exit, almost certainly a new gearbox,
re-machined shaft and propeller. Controls and wiring also need to
be considered. These jobs will add up to a good percentage of your
costs, so it's worth considering a re-build of your existing
engine as one option.

If you're convinced of the need for change, then start narrowing
down the engines you'd consider by checking out all the factors
above, looking for the maximum consistency and easy adaptations.

So, starting point - what will fit?
Next, what will fit with less effort?
Then, get down to the search, bearing in mind the cost of all
those alterations . . . deals are unlikely to offset those!
--
JimB
http://www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
Comparing cruise areas within Greece and N Spain

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

I've heard nothing but good things about the Yanmars, aside from cost, and
my experience with ours certainly bears them out. At 27 years of age it
feels like one of the sweetest running pieces of machinery I've been
associated with. I certainly trust it a lot more than the engine I used to
fly behind:)

It would be worth having some prop calculations performed. There is no
point in putting in a 3 cylinder Yanmar (or other engine) if your prop can
only use the horsepower of 2. The 3 cylinder will be a bit smoother but the
2 cylinder, 2 blade, installation in our boat is plenty smooth. Diesels,
especially Yanmars which are a cool running engine, will give more trouble
running too lightly than at their rated continuous horsepower. After you've
paid for a cylinder you don't need, you then have the reduced maintenance
clearance and extra weight for life.

The power requirements of your Bristol should not be very different than
Strider and I have all the power I need. I was able to keep moving straight
into the wind during a squall that heeled us under bare poles to our normal
sailing angle. The sail cover was thundering and the rain hitting my face
stung. I don't think you need much more power than that unless you plan to
tow a barge.

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:00:36 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I was able to keep moving straight
into the wind during a squall that heeled us under bare poles to our normal
sailing angle.

That is a key test of sufficient power in my experience. Anything
less will give you some tense moments every once in a while.

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

NE Sailboat wrote:
I may, or may not repower my boat. But, if I was to, where would one start
in a search for a new small diesel to repower a sailboat?

Is there a trick to finding a deal? Boat shows? I seem to remember someone
here mentioning boat show specials.

I am going to keep my eyes open for a small ( 16-20 hp ) diesel . If I see
a good deal, snatch it up. Then take my time putting in in after taking out
the old.

But, where to keep those eyes looking .. that is the question.
What size boat?

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

Roger ,, you have a 2cyl, 2 blade? Very interesting. What is the hp of the
2cyl?

The reason I ask: I got to looking at engines on the net. Always looking,
looking, looking.. anyway,, one thing led to another and I started looking
at the BETA engines. BETA has a new diesel which is a 16hp, 2cyl. I'm not
sure what the blade requirement is.

I've always felt that many boats overpower. That isn't a bad thing if that
is what one wants but for just getting in and out ... that 16hp, 2cyl sure
did look pretty.

Fits the same general area, bed as my Atomic 4. I love the Atomic 4. It is
so simple. And with help like Mr Moyer in MD the engine will be around
forever. That said: having gallons of gasoline not far from where I am
cooking, sleeping, etc does get my attention.

I am not in a rush. This is not an emergency or anything. I just figured
I'd look, learn, and if a really great deal came along .. buy.

Tell me/us more about what engine you have in your boat. What size? HP?
Alternator? All the good stuff.

========
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I've heard nothing but good things about the Yanmars, aside from cost, and
my experience with ours certainly bears them out. At 27 years of age it
feels like one of the sweetest running pieces of machinery I've been
associated with. I certainly trust it a lot more than the engine I used
to fly behind:)

It would be worth having some prop calculations performed. There is no
point in putting in a 3 cylinder Yanmar (or other engine) if your prop can
only use the horsepower of 2. The 3 cylinder will be a bit smoother but
the 2 cylinder, 2 blade, installation in our boat is plenty smooth.
Diesels, especially Yanmars which are a cool running engine, will give
more trouble running too lightly than at their rated continuous
horsepower. After you've paid for a cylinder you don't need, you then
have the reduced maintenance clearance and extra weight for life.

The power requirements of your Bristol should not be very different than
Strider and I have all the power I need. I was able to keep moving
straight into the wind during a squall that heeled us under bare poles to
our normal sailing angle. The sail cover was thundering and the rain
hitting my face stung. I don't think you need much more power than that
unless you plan to tow a barge.

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

32' full keel, heavy ( 11,500 lbs ) sailboat.



"candi" wrote in message
ups.com...

NE Sailboat wrote:
I may, or may not repower my boat. But, if I was to, where would one
start
in a search for a new small diesel to repower a sailboat?

Is there a trick to finding a deal? Boat shows? I seem to remember
someone
here mentioning boat show specials.

I am going to keep my eyes open for a small ( 16-20 hp ) diesel . If I
see
a good deal, snatch it up. Then take my time putting in in after taking
out
the old.

But, where to keep those eyes looking .. that is the question.
What size boat?

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

NE Sailboat wrote:

If a 16 cylinder Beta fits the same beds as the Atomic 4, it should be
perfect. A friend who did a lot of research and listened to my various bits
of advice is re-powering his boat with a Beta. The engines and installation
get a lot of individual attention that is usually lacking when you buy from
a big outfit like Yanmar. I suspect the basic design of the Yanmar might be
better but I'd put a Beta in my boat in a minute if I needed a new engine.

There are reasons to give up gas now that go beyond simply blowing yourself
up and the constant worry and care needed to keep you and your boat in one
piece. As more and more ethanol and other weird anti-pollution additives
are put in gas, it is rapidly becoming a pretty poor marine fuel. It breaks
down quickly, attacks components that weren't designed by car makers who saw
ethanol coming a decade or more ago.

About the only advantage to a gas engine is that you can have power almost
instantly without warming up. You can use the engine to get out of a jam
in an emergency without hurting it. Diesels need a few moments of warming
up. If you sail off a mooring or are sailing into a tight spot where you
might need to use the engine, you should warm it up for a few minutes just
in case. This is less of a pain though than all the bilge checking
necessary before starting a gas engine.

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

Roger ,,, what size in hp is your Yanmar?

===============================
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:

If a 16 cylinder Beta fits the same beds as the Atomic 4, it should be
perfect. A friend who did a lot of research and listened to my various
bits of advice is re-powering his boat with a Beta. The engines and
installation get a lot of individual attention that is usually lacking
when you buy from a big outfit like Yanmar. I suspect the basic design of
the Yanmar might be better but I'd put a Beta in my boat in a minute if I
needed a new engine.

There are reasons to give up gas now that go beyond simply blowing
yourself up and the constant worry and care needed to keep you and your
boat in one piece. As more and more ethanol and other weird
anti-pollution additives are put in gas, it is rapidly becoming a pretty
poor marine fuel. It breaks down quickly, attacks components that weren't
designed by car makers who saw ethanol coming a decade or more ago.

About the only advantage to a gas engine is that you can have power almost
instantly without warming up. You can use the engine to get out of a jam
in an emergency without hurting it. Diesels need a few moments of warming
up. If you sail off a mooring or are sailing into a tight spot where you
might need to use the engine, you should warm it up for a few minutes just
in case. This is less of a pain though than all the bilge checking
necessary before starting a gas engine.

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

I liked my Yanmars (3GM30s) until a piston broke at 3 years...
therefore,out of warranty. However, I was told by the Yanmar dealer that in
cases like that where the engine had been well maintained (which it had)
Yanmar had been known to give some assistance.
I would have accepted it better if Yanmar had said sorry, out of date, but
the rep came up with all sorts of operator caused reasons for failure---use
of ether (not true, and dealer said evidence contradicted that supposition),
and operation under light load by delivery captain (not likely, knowing the
circumstances).
They are all good engines. But no one is perfect. Mistakes will be made.
What means the most is which company is most concerned with its reputation .
I've certainly gotten a bad taste from Yanmar.
Next time I'll look hard at Beta.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I've heard nothing but good things about the Yanmars, aside from cost, and
my experience with ours certainly bears them out. At 27 years of age it
feels like one of the sweetest running pieces of machinery I've been
associated with. I certainly trust it a lot more than the engine I used
to fly behind:)

It would be worth having some prop calculations performed. There is no
point in putting in a 3 cylinder Yanmar (or other engine) if your prop can
only use the horsepower of 2. The 3 cylinder will be a bit smoother but
the 2 cylinder, 2 blade, installation in our boat is plenty smooth.
Diesels, especially Yanmars which are a cool running engine, will give
more trouble running too lightly than at their rated continuous
horsepower. After you've paid for a cylinder you don't need, you then
have the reduced maintenance clearance and extra weight for life.

The power requirements of your Bristol should not be very different than
Strider and I have all the power I need. I was able to keep moving
straight into the wind during a squall that heeled us under bare poles to
our normal sailing angle. The sail cover was thundering and the rain
hitting my face stung. I don't think you need much more power than that
unless you plan to tow a barge.

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

NE Sailboat wrote:
Roger ,,, what size in hp is your Yanmar?

It's called a 20 hp but the rating standards have been changed since 1980 so
it would be called a 15 today. The Yanmar rep at a boat show told me that
it was the same displacement as the 2 cylinder they now call a 15 but I
haven't checked the numbers myself.

I wasn't at full throttle in that squall either.

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

Roger ,,, great info ,,this is why I lurk here. Sounds as if you have a
very sweet engine.

My AT4 is called a 30hp. But I have read numerous places that it never gave
more than 15hp or so.

On the repower front, a sailor I know has just repowered. He took out an
AT4. The AT4 probably needs some work. I am buying it from him for a
couple of bucks. I will send it out and get it rebuilt. This way I have
two engines!

Looks like I will be an AT4 man for some time. But if a good diesel comes
along,,, I will scoff it up.

============
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:
Roger ,,, what size in hp is your Yanmar?

It's called a 20 hp but the rating standards have been changed since 1980
so it would be called a 15 today. The Yanmar rep at a boat show told me
that it was the same displacement as the 2 cylinder they now call a 15 but
I haven't checked the numbers myself.

I wasn't at full throttle in that squall either.

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

NE Sailboat wrote:

Looks like I will be an AT4 man for some time.

If you don't blow yourself up:)

--
Roger Long

Re-power question ,, as to engine etc
 

Gee Wiz Roger ... you would have to bring up that.

Oh, well ,, if you are out sailing and there is a big flash out around Cape
Elizabeth ,, it isn't a plane ...



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:

Looks like I will be an AT4 man for some time.

If you don't blow yourself up:)

--
Roger Long