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Air Conditioners
Subject: Air Conditioners
From: "Rick & Linda Bernard" First off you can't buy R-12 or R-22 without a license. I would think that if you had a license you would have test equipment and would be smart enough to read the gauges to realize the system is R-12 or R-22. Double Duh... Triple duh, it's not that hard to get R-12 or R-22 wthout a license. And pressure gauges in and off themselves will not tell you what type of gas you have in your system. Capt. Bill |
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#2
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Air Conditioners
Subject: Air Conditioners
From: (LaBomba182) Date: 9/12/03 2:46 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: Subject: Air Conditioners From: "Rick & Linda Bernard" First off you can't buy R-12 or R-22 without a license. I would think that if you had a license you would have test equipment and would be smart enough to read the gauges to realize the system is R-12 or R-22. Double Duh... Triple duh, it's not that hard to get R-12 or R-22 wthout a license. And pressure gauges in and off themselves will not tell you what type of gas you have in your system. Capt. Bill At room temp., (i.e., haven't been running it for an hour), the pressure will be the vapor pressure of the stuff at that temp. (IF it is not so low on fluid that there is no fluid at all left). You have to look up somewhere what the vapor pressure of each is. (I used to know, but that was a long time ago.) I think that the stuff for cars is the one with the least pressure for a given temp since it is so damn hot under the hood of a car. I have gauges and an electronic leak detector, and I would fix my freezer, but .. . . how do people get freon today without a licence? (Not that 'I' would do it if it were illegal. Just wondering about how 'other' people do it.) Earl |
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#3
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Air Conditioners
GASNER wrote:
At room temp., (i.e., haven't been running it for an hour), the pressure will be the vapor pressure of the stuff at that temp. (IF it is not so low on fluid that there is no fluid at all left). You have to look up somewhere what the vapor pressure of each is. (I used to know, but that was a long time ago.) That is correct. If you have a thermometer you can also connect your gages and measure the temperature at the evaporator and the condensor with the system running. Most gages have temperature indicators for different refrigerants such that you can read the low side and high side temperatures directly. Believe me, its is hard to mistake R12 for R22, because the pressures are much different. I think that the stuff for cars is the one with the least pressure for a given temp since it is so damn hot under the hood of a car. Actually, automobiles used to use R12 which as you stated has a lower vapor pressure than R22. For example, at 100 degrees F R12 is at ~115 PSI, while R22 is at ~200 PSI. R502 at 100F would be ~215 PSI. Since 1996 autos sold in the USA use R134A. R134A at 100F is ~124 PSI which is higher than R12, but much lower than R22 or R502. I have gauges and an electronic leak detector, and I would fix my freezer, but . . . how do people get freon today without a licence? (Not that 'I' would do it if it were illegal. Just wondering about how 'other' people do it.) Earl Well, you can buy R134A without a license at auto parts stores. There is a non-controlled R22 replacement marketed as (I think) Puron. According to my home AC man there is also now a non-controlled drop-in replacement for R12, but I don't know what it is called. What is in your freezer? Don W. |
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#5
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Air Conditioners
Earl,
FYI, you need an EPA Section 609 certification to purchase small quantities of R-12. You can get certified (like I did) at: http://www.imaca.org/training.htm The cost is $15.00, and if you already understand A/C (like me) then the whole thing takes about and hour, tops. They were very good to deal with as well. For R-22, you need an EPA Section 608 certification. You can get that, online, at: http://www.escoinst.com/Certification.htm Have no experience with these folks, though, so I'm NOT recommending them, just passing on the info. Cheers, Keith Hughes GASNER wrote: Subject: Air Conditioners From: Don W Date: 9/16/03 11:25 AM Central Daylight Time Message-id: GASNER wrote: At room temp., (i.e., haven't been running it for an hour), the pressure will be the vapor pressure of the stuff at that temp. (IF it is not so low on fluid that there is no fluid at all left). You have to look up somewhere what the vapor pressure of each is. (I used to know, but that was a long time ago.) That is correct. If you have a thermometer you can also connect your gages and measure the temperature at the evaporator and the condensor with the system running. Most gages have temperature indicators for different refrigerants such that you can read the low side and high side temperatures directly. Believe me, its is hard to mistake R12 for R22, because the pressures are much different. I think that the stuff for cars is the one with the least pressure for a given temp since it is so damn hot under the hood of a car. Actually, automobiles used to use R12 which as you stated has a lower vapor pressure than R22. For example, at 100 degrees F R12 is at ~115 PSI, while R22 is at ~200 PSI. R502 at 100F would be ~215 PSI. Since 1996 autos sold in the USA use R134A. R134A at 100F is ~124 PSI which is higher than R12, but much lower than R22 or R502. I have gauges and an electronic leak detector, and I would fix my freezer, but . . . how do people get freon today without a licence? (Not that 'I' would do it if it were illegal. Just wondering about how 'other' people do it.) Earl Well, you can buy R134A without a license at auto parts stores. There is a non-controlled R22 replacement marketed as (I think) Puron. According to my home AC man there is also now a non-controlled drop-in replacement for R12, but I don't know what it is called. What is in your freezer? Don W. Wow. I have to drop by an automotive store and check. My freezer is just an ordinary home food freezer, ca 10/15 years old. Slow leak. (Starts to run and compress, then cuts out. Probably a low pressure safety.) If I could get a couple of cheater connectors I could gauge it. and put in some more freon. As is I probably can find the leak with my electronic leak detector. Perhaps seal it with epoxy, perhaps braze it. Dirty little secret is that it should run with just adding some of the 'wrong kind' of freon. Perhaps not as efficient. Earl |
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#6
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Air Conditioners
Subject: Air Conditioners
From: Nancy Eilers-Hughes Date: 9/24/03 12:35 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: Earl, FYI, you need an EPA Section 609 certification to purchase small quantities of R-12. You can get certified (like I did) at: http://www.imaca.org/training.htm The cost is $15.00, and if you already understand A/C (like me) then the whole thing takes about and hour, tops. They were very good to deal with as well. Wow. Only $15.00. I understand A/C, own a set of gauges, and own an electronic leak detector. New house air-conditioner needed a refill every spring as the tech from the guarantee only had a flame/color leak detector and could not find the small leak. Guarantee ran out, (they said) so rather than fight city hall I bought a good electronic leak detector, found the leak, brazed in some new connectors, and refilled the system. End of 'springtime problem'. Earl For R-22, you need an EPA Section 608 certification. You can get that, online, at: http://www.escoinst.com/Certification.htm Have no experience with these folks, though, so I'm NOT recommending them, just passing on the info. Cheers, Keith Hughes GASNER wrote: Subject: Air Conditioners From: Don W Date: 9/16/03 11:25 AM Central Daylight Time Message-id: GASNER wrote: At room temp., (i.e., haven't been running it for an hour), the pressure will be the vapor pressure of the stuff at that temp. (IF it is not so low on fluid that there is no fluid at all left). You have to look up somewhere what the vapor pressure of each is. (I used to know, but that was a long time ago.) That is correct. If you have a thermometer you can also connect your gages and measure the temperature at the evaporator and the condensor with the system running. Most gages have temperature indicators for different refrigerants such that you can read the low side and high side temperatures directly. Believe me, its is hard to mistake R12 for R22, because the pressures are much different. I think that the stuff for cars is the one with the least pressure for a given temp since it is so damn hot under the hood of a car. Actually, automobiles used to use R12 which as you stated has a lower vapor pressure than R22. For example, at 100 degrees F R12 is at ~115 PSI, while R22 is at ~200 PSI. R502 at 100F would be ~215 PSI. Since 1996 autos sold in the USA use R134A. R134A at 100F is ~124 PSI which is higher than R12, but much lower than R22 or R502. I have gauges and an electronic leak detector, and I would fix my freezer, but . . . how do people get freon today without a licence? (Not that 'I' would do it if it were illegal. Just wondering about how 'other' people do it.) Earl Well, you can buy R134A without a license at auto parts stores. There is a non-controlled R22 replacement marketed as (I think) Puron. According to my home AC man there is also now a non-controlled drop-in replacement for R12, but I don't know what it is called. What is in your freezer? Don W. Wow. I have to drop by an automotive store and check. My freezer is just an ordinary home food freezer, ca 10/15 years old. Slow leak. (Starts to run and compress, then cuts out. Probably a low pressure safety.) If I could get a couple of cheater connectors I could gauge it. and put in some more freon. As is I probably can find the leak with my electronic leak detector. Perhaps seal it with epoxy, perhaps braze it. Dirty little secret is that it should run with just adding some of the 'wrong kind' of freon. Perhaps not as efficient. Earl |
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