Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

I'm sitting here watching "Titanic's Final Moments - Missing Pieces", who's
scientists include one "Roger Long", recently of rec.boats.cruising, I
think.

Is that you, Roger?

Most interesting History Channel video....

Well, back to my story.........

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

"Larry" wrote
Is that you, Roger?

Yup. That be me.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Titanic.htm

Another even better show with more of the story coming up next April.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:jgAZg.62771$uH6.12822
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

Another even better show with more of the story coming up next April.



Thank you for the heads up.....

We'll be watching for it.

I'm very sorry you weren't aboard Mir when the bottom section was
discovered. What the hell do we need with State Department bureaucrats on
junket rides in the mid Atlantic, on a Russian ship? Government spy
keeping an eye on you guys?...(c;

It was an honor to watch it and know someone associated with it of your
caliber. Hope you get to go back in the future.

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

"Larry" wrote
Is that you, Roger?

Yup. That be me.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Titanic.htm

Another even better show with more of the story coming up next April.

PLEASE give us a week or so warning when it's coming uP.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Roger,

So as I understand it, the belief now is that
the two parts broke apart much earlier than
previously believed?

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

wrote

So as I understand it, the belief now is that the two parts broke
apart much earlier than previously believed?

The hull actually broke within a few minutes of the time everyone
agrees that the ship sank. The significant point is how much longer
she might have remained afloat.

Conventional wisdom, prior to analysis of the pieces we documented,
(at least one of them had been seen but they had never been
photographed or studied in a useful way) was that the hull failure was
simply an event that punctuated the final moments. The ship would have
been under water within moments anyway and the hull simply broke as
she went into a longitudinal "capsize" and began her final plunge. It
would have been very dramatic but not have changed the outcome very
much.

The low angle at which we now believe the hull fractured has some
startling implications for the human part of the story. When the hull
failed it let in massive amounts of water which finished the sinking
process in minutes. If this happened at the 11 - 13 degree angle we
believe, than it took place at a time that the ship's major damaged
compartments were fully flooded and the inflow of water had greatly
slowed as it worked its way in through semi watertight interior
divisions and deck openings. The ship was doomed to eventually sink
but would have remained afloat for some finite period of additional
time.

The big question at this point is how much longer the ship would have
floated. She might have floated long enough for the rescue ship to
have arrived a couple hours later. It is not highly probable but
enough within the realm of possibility that we have to consider it. If
she had floated for just a portion of that time, there would have been
time for the half loaded lifeboats to consider the situation and
possibly return to rescue more passengers.

Even if the ship would only have floated for a few more minutes, the
hull fracture precipitating the final plunge instead of the reverse
greatly alters our understanding of the human experience for those who
were there. The low angle fracture would have occurred at a time when
the ship at least appeared to be in a relatively stable attitude and
flooding had slowed. This was after the last boat had left and there
is historical evidence that most of those left aboard were inside
where it was warm and the lights were still on. Remember, there was no
public address system or other means of mass communication. Nobody
knew what was going on.

Suddenly, in the midst of this period of apparent calm and stability,
when many certainly thought that they were simply awaiting rescue
aboard this unsinkable ship, there was a mass exodus from the warmth
and light into the cold and dark. What precipitated this panic and
rush to the stern of the ship? We believe that it was probably the
loud noises, impulsive shiver underfoot, and sudden tilting forward as
the hull girder fractured. Just minutes after this illusion of safety
was shattered, the ship was gone and hundreds were in the water.

We are working on a second show to air next spring and have uncovered
new information that should make for some block busting revelations.
Stay tuned.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

In article ,
says...


wrote

So as I understand it, the belief now is that the two parts broke
apart much earlier than previously believed?

The hull actually broke within a few minutes of the time everyone
agrees that the ship sank. The significant point is how much longer
she might have remained afloat.

(Snip)

Extremely interesting, Roger. My English course term paper in my
freshman year at college (1949-1950) was on the Titanic. Got an A.

Did you know she carried a full set of sails?

I did most of my research at the Library of Congress in Washington,
DC.In those days they did not have microfilm and one could handle the
actual newspapars. The newspaper publishers printed special library
editions that were on far better stock than the standard newsprint. It
was absolutely fascinating to read the papers chronicling the ship from
launch to sailing to mundane radio traffic to all the erroneous reports
of her sinking or not sinking. But somebody had stolen the front page of
the edition that actually headlined her confirmed sinking.

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Roger Long wrote:
The big question at this point is how much longer the ship would have
floated. She might have floated long enough for the rescue ship to
have arrived a couple hours later. It is not highly probable but
enough within the realm of possibility that we have to consider it.

Sure, although a parallel consideration is whether the ship
would have maintained stability in such a flooded condition.
She went thru a couple of scary rolls in the minutes before
she broke up & sank.


Even if the ship would only have floated for a few more minutes, the
hull fracture precipitating the final plunge instead of the reverse
greatly alters our understanding of the human experience for those who
were there. The low angle fracture would have occurred at a time when
the ship at least appeared to be in a relatively stable attitude and
flooding had slowed.

Actually, a number of the ships officers thought she might
be about to roll over and ordered passengers away from the side.

.... This was after the last boat had left

??

The "last boat" never did leave. The officers were still in
the process of rigging & launching the last two lifeboats
when she went down.


.... and there
is historical evidence that most of those left aboard were inside
where it was warm and the lights were still on.

Certainly a lot of them were inside. The difference between
the bodies recovered & the numbers lost suggest that at
least several hundred people were still inside.

One 'human aspect' of the story is the people who were
trapped inside long before the ship sank... the laundry crew
and the mail workers for example. Another group I wonder
about is the bos'un and a gang of AB's sent by 2nd Officer
Lightoller to open the gangway to facilitate loading
passengers into boats already launched.

....Remember, there was no
public address system or other means of mass communication. Nobody
knew what was going on.


And this was a big part of the problem. Nobody had even
thought it would be desirable to be able to talk to the
entire crew or passengers. "C3" had never been dreamed up yet.

On top of that, Captain Smith and Chief Wilde thought that
to spread the word was to spread panic, so they deliberately
told all the junior officers to pretend it was a drill as
long as possible.


Suddenly, in the midst of this period of apparent calm and stability,
when many certainly thought that they were simply awaiting rescue
aboard this unsinkable ship, there was a mass exodus from the warmth
and light into the cold and dark. What precipitated this panic and
rush to the stern of the ship? We believe that it was probably the
loud noises, impulsive shiver underfoot, and sudden tilting forward as
the hull girder fractured. Just minutes after this illusion of safety
was shattered, the ship was gone and hundreds were in the water.


You could very well be right.

This has been described & discussed before, often by peple
with the agenda of "proving" that the 3rd class passengers
were deliberately kept below, and they suddenly burst the
gates and/or found their way up.


We are working on a second show to air next spring and have uncovered
new information that should make for some block busting revelations.
Stay tuned.


Sounds interesting. FOr some years there was a very lively
discussion of all sort of details & aspects of the Titanic
(and maritime history in general) at the newsgroup
"alt.history.ocean-liners.titanic" which has unfortunately
gone moribund. I am curious what "new blockbuster" info
there is.

Regards
Doug King

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Larry wrote:

Another even better show with more of the story coming up next April.



Thank you for the heads up.....

We'll be watching for it.


Sidebar question: Are there any movies that have a heavy sailing
element to them that anyone could recommend that a newbie to sailing
would find interesting? Or how about history channel documentaries on
sailing?

Thanks

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

"Jim" wrote in message
ps.com...

Sidebar question: Are there any movies that have a heavy sailing
element to them that anyone could recommend that a newbie to sailing
would find interesting? Or how about history channel documentaries on
sailing?

Thanks


"The Boatniks." Newport Harbor in the early 70's and a great reminder of
what our Coast Guard used to be. Watch it for the humor, but learn from the
mistakes.

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

"White Squall" if you can find it. Not a great movie but a true story
that I was closely involved with finding out the truth about.
(Titanic wasn't my first forensic endeavor. The truth is out there but
you won't find it in this movie.)

The old B&W "Captains Courageous" with Spencer Tracy (try you library)
has incredible real footage of large fishing schooners being sailed
harder than you can believe. One even was dismasted and the story
re-written around it.

--

Roger Long



"Jim" wrote in message
ps.com...

Larry wrote:

Another even better show with more of the story coming up next
April.



Thank you for the heads up.....

We'll be watching for it.


Sidebar question: Are there any movies that have a heavy sailing
element to them that anyone could recommend that a newbie to sailing
would find interesting? Or how about history channel documentaries
on
sailing?

Thanks

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

On 19 Oct 2006 08:13:45 -0700, "Jim" wrote:

Sidebar question: Are there any movies that have a heavy sailing
element to them that anyone could recommend that a newbie to sailing
would find interesting? Or how about history channel documentaries on
sailing?

"Wind" - Awful movie. Great sailing photography.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0105824/

"Masquerade" - fairly decent movie even without the sailing

http://imdb.com/title/tt0095599/

"Master and Commander"

http://imdb.com/title/tt0311113/

Das Boot - good training film for off shore distance racing :-)

http://imdb.com/title/tt0082096/

"The Four Seasons" - yachting in the Carribean with Alan Alda

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

THE TITANIC IS SUNK? WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? OH MY ... THIS IS BAD..

WHEN DID THIS AWFUL SINKING TAKE PLACE?

I HOPE ALL THE PASSENGERS GOT OFF OK..

============================
"Larry" wrote in message
...
I'm sitting here watching "Titanic's Final Moments - Missing Pieces",
who's
scientists include one "Roger Long", recently of rec.boats.cruising, I
think.

Is that you, Roger?

Most interesting History Channel video....

Well, back to my story.........

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Look up Don Street on the net .. there is a pretty good and at times funny
video of a sail from Ireland to Antigua .. took place in mid 1980's.

The funny part? Most of the crew quits.. every time the Iolaire docks most
of the crew flies home. By the time they leave from the Canary Isls for
Antigua,, the crew can't even speak English.

The movie will give one a feel of what the long ride is like ... and it is a
Loooooonnnnnnnnnnggggggggg trip.

--------------
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 19 Oct 2006 08:13:45 -0700, "Jim" wrote:

Sidebar question: Are there any movies that have a heavy sailing
element to them that anyone could recommend that a newbie to sailing
would find interesting? Or how about history channel documentaries on
sailing?

"Wind" - Awful movie. Great sailing photography.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0105824/

"Masquerade" - fairly decent movie even without the sailing

http://imdb.com/title/tt0095599/

"Master and Commander"

http://imdb.com/title/tt0311113/

Das Boot - good training film for off shore distance racing :-)

http://imdb.com/title/tt0082096/

"The Four Seasons" - yachting in the Carribean with Alan Alda

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Roger Long wrote:

The old B&W "Captains Courageous" with Spencer Tracy (try you library)
has incredible real footage of large fishing schooners being sailed
harder than you can believe. One even was dismasted and the story
re-written around it.


You know what, I think I saw that one. Was he an older spanish speaker
sailor - he was looking after a young kid who was aboard and there was
an accident at the end? And he always had something -like a razor or a
pen knife or something - or he played an instrument - can't quite
remember. Is that the movie?

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Wayne.B wrote:

Wow - thanks for all that.


"Wind" - Awful movie. Great sailing photography.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0105824/

"Masquerade" - fairly decent movie even without the sailing

http://imdb.com/title/tt0095599/

"Master and Commander"

http://imdb.com/title/tt0311113/

Das Boot - good training film for off shore distance racing :-)

http://imdb.com/title/tt0082096/

"The Four Seasons" - yachting in the Carribean with Alan Alda

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Jim wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:

Wow - thanks for all that.



"Wind" - Awful movie. Great sailing photography.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0105824/

"Masquerade" - fairly decent movie even without the sailing

http://imdb.com/title/tt0095599/

"Master and Commander"

http://imdb.com/title/tt0311113/

Das Boot - good training film for off shore distance racing :-)

http://imdb.com/title/tt0082096/

"The Four Seasons" - yachting in the Carribean with Alan Alda



Two old favourites... Captain Ron.. and both versions of Mutiny on the
Bounty.

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Don White wrote:

Two old favourites... Captain Ron.. and both versions of Mutiny on the
Bounty.

Forgot about Mutiny on the Bounty - love the Marlon Brando version. How
about Treasure Island with Charlton Heston as Long John Silver?

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Jim wrote:
Don White wrote:


Two old favourites... Captain Ron.. and both versions of Mutiny on the
Bounty.


Forgot about Mutiny on the Bounty - love the Marlon Brando version. How
about Treasure Island with Charlton Heston as Long John Silver?



I think my dad told me about that one.

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Jim wrote:

Sidebar question: Are there any movies that have a heavy sailing
element to them that anyone could recommend that a newbie to sailing
would find interesting? Or how about history channel documentaries on
sailing?

Wind.

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

For a live, up close and personal visit to a ship that was in more than one
movie ......... visit Boothbay Harbor.

The ship used in filming Pirates of the Caribbean is there. She is being
rebuilt, refitted. She was in some other movies as well.

Somewhat interesting................ the planks are big and thick.

Also, Carousel Marina in Boothbay Harbor .. it is where much of the filming
of the movie "Carousel" was filmed, on location.

==========

That's a take !!

===================



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"White Squall" if you can find it. Not a great movie but a true story
that I was closely involved with finding out the truth about. (Titanic
wasn't my first forensic endeavor. The truth is out there but you won't
find it in this movie.)

The old B&W "Captains Courageous" with Spencer Tracy (try you library) has
incredible real footage of large fishing schooners being sailed harder
than you can believe. One even was dismasted and the story re-written
around it.

--

Roger Long



"Jim" wrote in message
ps.com...

Larry wrote:

Another even better show with more of the story coming up next April.



Thank you for the heads up.....

We'll be watching for it.


Sidebar question: Are there any movies that have a heavy sailing
element to them that anyone could recommend that a newbie to sailing
would find interesting? Or how about history channel documentaries on
sailing?

Thanks

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

"Captain Bartholomew Martyn lll" wrote in
news:r5RZg.4013$5h6.2906@trndny04:

I HOPE ALL THE PASSENGERS GOT OFF OK..



WE hope all YOUR passengers got off....(c;



--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Boat Films (was Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments)
 

Portuguese. And yes, they pull a rich boy out of the drink. He'd fallen
off daddy's yacht. Excellent footage of real fishing schooners.

Tracy did not like his performance, but I think it is fine.


The old B&W "Captains Courageous" with Spencer Tracy (try you
library) has incredible real footage of large fishing schooners being
sailed harder than you can believe. One even was dismasted and the
story re-written around it.


You know what, I think I saw that one. Was he an older spanish speaker
sailor - he was looking after a young kid who was aboard and there was
an accident at the end? And he always had something -like a razor or a
pen knife or something - or he played an instrument - can't quite
remember. Is that the movie?

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

and both versions of Mutiny on the
Bounty.

All three?

I like #'s 2 & 3. (ie Brando & Gibson)

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

"Captain Bartholomew Martyn lll" wrote

[trash]

Oh look. He's changed his name again.

Any offers on that Alberg 32, Tom? I hope the problem with the
transom lettering isn't scaring off buyers.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Why are you attacking Roger; Roger?

==========================




"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Captain Bartholomew Martyn lll" wrote

[trash]

Oh look. He's changed his name again.

Any offers on that Alberg 32, Tom? I hope the problem with the transom
lettering isn't scaring off buyers.

--

Roger Long

Boat Films (was Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments)
 

wrote:

Did anyone ever see the movie "The Buccaneer" about a pirate named Jean
Lifite who helped Andrew Jackson in the War of 1812? There was the 1938
version and a remake in 1958 with Yul Brenner - I don't like the
remake. The 1st one was directed by Cecil B Demille - it's excellent!

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:36:06 GMT, wrote:

Why are you attacking Roger; Roger?

==========================

Why are you changing your name again Tom Tom? Kind of childish don't
you think, especially for one requesting so much free advice here.

Roger Long - Titanic's Final Moments
 

Hey ,, Wayne ,,, I've changed again ... hahahahah

Just checking to see if you are on your toes.

================================
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:36:06 GMT, wrote:

Why are you attacking Roger; Roger?

==========================

Why are you changing your name again Tom Tom? Kind of childish don't
you think, especially for one requesting so much free advice here.