For Peggie
 

I recently bought a used boat. The head stinks. I've pumped the holding tank
a number of times and I've tried cleaning out the system with a variety of
off-the-shelf head cleaners. This has helped, but I still have more odor than
I would like.

Would it help to clean out this system with a diluted bleach solution similar
to what you suggest for the water tank? Any suggestions would be helpful (I'm
resisting replacing all the plumbing hoses unless I absolutely must do that,
but I something short of that will work).

For Peggie
 

IamAeolus wrote:
I recently bought a used boat. The head stinks.

What do you mean, "the head stinks?" That you have odor only IN the
head? All the time? Only when you flush? The whole boat smells like
waste?

Do NOT put bleach down the toilet...it's highly destructive to the
rubber parts in the toilet and to hoses. When I have enough information,
I can give you the cure.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Brian Whatcott wrote:
On 20 Aug 2003 15:04:14 GMT, (IamAeolus) wrote:
Bleach is an excellent recipe for germicidal, odor reducing tasks.

And damage rubber parts in toilets.

But a packet or two of baking soda is helpful with odors,
as is the "Airwick-brand wick in bottle dispenser.

Getting rid of the source of the odor gets rid of the odor. Air
fresheners only mask odors.


If I told you that my wife befriends wild cats, and has a house-dog
and cats, would that bolster my credibility?

Nope...sorry. :) 'Fwiw, I've not only been solving odor problems on
boats for more than 15 years, but I also have two geriatric "house"
cats, one of which has developed an incontinence problem in her old age.
My boats and my houses are odor-free, without the use of bleach or air
fresheners.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

What do you mean, "the head stinks?" That you have odor only IN the
head? All the time? Only when you flush? The whole boat smells like
waste? BRBR

The odor is primarily in the head and it is there regardless of whether the
head is flushed or not. The odor seems to permeate the rest of the boat, with
the head as the epicenter. Again, I have cleaned the head (numberous times,
and with numerous commercial products). I have pumped out the holding tank a
number of times, flushed it, and pumped it again. I have been using "Sea Land
Liquid Holding Tank Deodorant and Cleaner," pumped thru the system from the
head to the holding tank. As mentioned, all this has helped somewhat, but not
enough to suit me.

Over to you again, and thanks....

For Peggie
 

IamAeolus wrote:

The odor is primarily in the head and it is there regardless of
whether the head is flushed or not. The odor seems to permeate the
rest of the boat, with the head as the epicenter.

Is there a shower sump? If so, when was the last time it was cleaned? A
wet dirty sump can smell like sewer.

The other most likely possibility is dead and decaying sealife trapped
in the head intake hose and/or channel in the rim of the bowl.

Again, I have
cleaned the head (numberous times, and with numerous commercial
products). I have pumped out the holding tank a number of times,
flushed it, and pumped it again. I have been using "Sea Land Liquid
Holding Tank Deodorant and Cleaner," pumped thru the system from the
head to the holding tank.

Nothing poured down the toilet will clean it out because nothing poured
down the recirculates (thank God!) through the intake...it's just goes
out the discharge. Nothing you can put in the holding tank, nor any
amount of cleaning the tank is likely to have any effect on odor inside
the boat...'cuz unless the tank is leaking, any odor inside the tank has
nowhere to go except out the tank vent.

So continuing to pour anything down the head and flushing out the tank
is just a waste of your time and cleaning cleaning products.

To clean out the head intake, disconnect the intake hose from the
thru-hull (close the seacock first!) and stick it in a bucket of clean
fresh water that's liberally laced with Raritan C.P. Cleans Potties.
Pump that through the head...repeat. Reconnect the intake hose, but do
not use the toilet for at least 24 hours.

Use C.P. to clean the sump too. Although it's marketed only as a bowl
cleaner, it's a bio-enzymatic cleaner that not only destroys odors on
contact, but also "eats" hair, soap scum, body oils etc--all the things
that sit and "ferment" in a sump. It does need time to work, though...so
it needs to sit in the sump--with an inch or so of water--at least
overnight.

I get a lot of calls and email from people who've replaced their whole
sanitation systems trying to get rid of what they thought was "head"
odor, when all they really needed to do was clean their bilges...I don't
mean just pour in some more bilge cleaner, but really CLEAN 'em--lots of
detergent and water, followed by thoroughly rinsing out ALL the dirty
water. Also look for trapped water-- plugged or missing limber holes. A
wet dirty bilge is a dark stagnant swamp...and it can smell like swamp
if it's not that dirty..like a sewer if ignored long enough.

If the source of the odor isn't the head intake, sump or bilges, it's
time to check the hoses for odor permeation: wet a rag in hot
water...wring it out and wrap it around a section of every hose in the
system--intake, head discharge, tank pumpout, tank vent. Use a clean rag
for each test...remove it from the hose after it cools...smell it. If
you cannot smell anything on the rag, the hose is fine...if you smell
waste, that hose has permeated. The only cure is replacement.

Bottom line: you have to eliminate the source of any odor to eliminate
the odor. You may have more than one source...the only thing to do is
eliminate the possibilities one by one till you've found all the sources
and eliminated those.

Fwiw, you might consider clicking on the link in my signature too.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Hi Peggie: Where can I buy your book, in Ontario, Canada?

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield

For Peggie
 

Jim Carter wrote:
Hi Peggie: Where can I buy your book, in Ontario, Canada?

It's been out such a short time that it's not in any boat stores
yet...but you can order it directly from the publisher (see the link in
my sig below) or, if you'd like a signed copy, from
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Postage to Canada isn't that bad...only about double the US rate and
books don't have to have a customs declaration.

Thanks for asking!

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Peggie - will you ship your book to the UK?

For Peggie
 

Ayesha wrote:
Peggie - will you ship your book to the UK?

Yes...anywhere in the world!


Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

IamAeolus wrote:
Peggie:

1. The boat does have a shower that is supposed to drain to the bilge.]

Yuk! Install a sump--two if necessary--for your ice box as well as your
shower.


2. Something trapped in the raw water intake to the head is also a
possibility (although it seems to draw water in without difficulty). I will
shut the seacock and run Raritan C.P. thru it and see what happens

Dead and decaying micro-organisms in stagnant sea water won't create a
blockage...so the fact that flush water flows freely means nothing when
it comes to identifying and eliminating the sources of odors.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Do NOT put bleach down the toilet...it's highly destructive to the
rubber parts in the toilet and to hoses.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie:

Why is bleach destructive to the rubber part of the toilet system and not to
the water tank hoses?

For Peggie
 

Baybyter wrote:
Do NOT put bleach down the toilet...it's highly destructive to the
rubber parts in the toilet and to hoses.

Why is bleach destructive to the rubber part of the toilet system and
not to the water tank hoses?

Chlorine breaks down hose resistance to odor permeation, which is not a
factor in fresh water. However, it is also destructive to the rubber
parts in fresh water pumps, which is what makes it a bad idea to add a
little bleach to each fill. The cumulative effect of small doses is far
more destructive over time to rubber than a single annual megadose
"shock treatment. Plus, it's a waste of bleach...'cuz any purifying
properties evaporate within 24 hours, leaving behind only the corrosive
properties.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

IamAeolus wrote:

Peggie:

1. The boat does have a shower that is supposed to drain to the bilge. I
haven't used or checked it since I bought the boat, but will do so upon your
suggestion.

2. Something trapped in the raw water intake to the head is also a
possibility (although it seems to draw water in without difficulty). I will
shut the seacock and run Raritan C.P. thru it and see what happens.

3. Finally, thanks for the idea of how to check for hose permeation with a hot
rag. I fear the hoses are the culprits here, but keep hoping for a lesser
included offense...

4. Thank you very much for all the time and ideas. Your book is on my "to
buy" list.


I'm glad Peggie mentioned her book. I had pre-loaded the address just in
case. She's been so helpful, like this, for so many years, I have no
problem with her referring to it as infrequently as she does. In my
mind, her product is on the level of quality of the Spade anchor,
Potabote, Cetol and of course our beautifully odd-looking Xan.

Also, I didn't notice you mentioning the tank, but if it's a flexible
bladder, that's a probable source, as are any tanks with fittings
anywhere but the top.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

For Peggie
 

In article ,
says...


3. Finally, thanks for the idea of how to check for hose permeation with a
hot
rag. I fear the hoses are the culprits here, but keep hoping for a lesser
included offense...


Changing the hoses totally fixed our similar odor problem.

For Peggie
 

Richard Malcolm wrote:
Peggie
could you tell me more about pump for refridge. my leaks some time,
but never smells. but it does get the floor wet.

I need a bit more information before I can understand your question. Do
you have refrigeration, or only an ice box? What's leaking?

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Getting rid of the source of the odor gets rid of the odor. Air
fresheners only mask odors.

Always amuses me to see those air freshener, etc., ads on TV. I always
want to shout at the TV: "Clean the f...g place and save your money!"

That also applies to the ozone generators sold for use on boats. Ozone
in any concentration strong enough to destroy the sources of odors is
not only a health hazard, it's also HIGHLY corrosive and destructive
rubber, neoprene and flexible PVC—in other words, every seal, valve and
hose on a boat.

According to the EPA, “Available scientific evidence shows that, at
concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone is
generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The
concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to
be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants. In the process of
reacting with chemicals indoors, ozone can produce other chemicals that
can be irritating and corrosive.”

As for how well the portable ozone generators work when it comes to
getting rid of odor on their boats...yes, people who’ve bought them rave
do about how well they work. And, yes, the manufacturers do assure you
that the ozone concentration is well below that which can present any
health hazard. But if that's true, they can't deliver enough ozone to
destroy the sources of any odors. If they did deliver enough ozone to
destroy the sources of odors, it should only be necessary to run one
occasionally. But among all the people you know who’ve bought ozone
generators, have you ever met anyone who has one who's ever been able to
turn if off without having odors return? That should be enough to tell
you that ozone generators are only very expensive air fresheners,
because they don't deliver enough ozone to be anything else.

So, as Gogarty says, save your money and get rid of the SOURCES of your
odors. Eliminating the source is the only thing that really works.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Peggie Hall wrote in message ...
Richard Malcolm wrote:
Peggie
could you tell me more about pump for refridge. my leaks some time,
but never smells. but it does get the floor wet.

I need a bit more information before I can understand your question. Do
you have refrigeration, or only an ice box? What's leaking?

what I have is a little refridge that has a door that does not always stay
100% closed. and water leaks out the front and goes on the floor. the
water is melted (defrosted) ice which happens as these fridges are on
while the engine is running or shore power, but not on all the time.
forming ice and frost then melting.

For Peggie
 

Richard Malcolm wrote:
what I have is a little refridge that has a door that does not always stay
100% closed. and water leaks out the front and goes on the floor. the
water is melted (defrosted) ice which happens as these fridges are on
while the engine is running or shore power, but not on all the time.
forming ice and frost then melting.

The first solution to your particular problem is pretty obvious: put a
latch on the door that will keep it closed...and if necessary, replace
the rubber gasket around the door.

And if you have shore power, leave the fridge running all the time...you
don't turn off the fridge at home when you leave, why would you turn off
the fridge on the boat? For some reason, only sailors worry about
leaving shore power connected all the time...almost all powerboats do,
with no problems. I always did--mostly to power the fridge and the
icemaker, but also to keep the batteries charged to power the bilge
pumps if they were needed.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:18:33 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Getting rid of the source of the odor gets rid of the odor. Air
fresheners only mask odors.

There is another way. Own a boat that is supposed to
smell,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Get a wooden boat, oil, varnish or paint it.
Use kerosine to heat, light and cook. A diesel engine for power. Start
smoking, A pipe is good though cigars or hand rolling 'baccy will do.
Eat lots of crispy fried bacon and/or chilli.
Follow these few simple rules and the delicate whiff of head hose will
fade into the background,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I've just spent a couple of months sailing in Holland. Met lots of
nice people including one young lady visitor who remarked "Wonderful!
A real wooden boat, and it smells like a boat should, just like my
father's old Botter." At least I think she said
Botter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ian Wright, Patience, Vertue 203

For Peggie
 

She's been so helpful, like this, for so many years, I have no
problem with her referring to it as infrequently as she does.

Also, I didn't notice you mentioning the tank, but if it's a flexible
bladder, that's a probable source, as are any tanks with fittings
anywhere but the top.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) BRBR

Peggie's help is certainly appreciated. To me, that is just the kind of thing
this newsgroup should be about, rather than some of the ad hominem stuff we see
elsewhere.

You mentioned the tank on my boat. It is not a bladder, but appears to be
aluminum. I had a bladder tank on a previous boat and agree with you that they
are a major cause of many odor problems. I'm hopeful that Peggie's suggestions
to use Raritan CP will do the trick for me.

For Peggie
 

Hmseconomy wrote:
She's been so helpful, like this, for so many years, I have no
problem with her referring to it as infrequently as she does.

Also, I didn't notice you mentioning the tank, but if it's a flexible
bladder, that's a probable source, as are any tanks with fittings
anywhere but the top.

Fittings on rigid tanks aren't likely to be the source of an odor
problem no matter where they are...but fittings on bladders are often
owner installed and not always as tight as they need to be. Bladders are
also highly prone to blowing out a fitting at the first sign of a
clogged vent. And even the best quality only has a lifespan of about 15
years. They're not recommended for waste holding.

Aluminum is an even worse choice than a bladder...stainless isn't much
better. Urine is SO corrosive that it makes salt seem benign in
comparison...it'll typically eat through a weld at a seam or fitting
within 2-5 years and turn the sheet metal into a collander within 10.

Thick-walled polyethylene--preferably rotomolded, not welded--is the
only material recommended for waste holding.

Odors are always strongest at their source...so unless the compartment
that houses the tank stinks, the tank is unlikely to be the source of
any odor INSIDE the boat--although a permeated pumpout hose and/or tank
vent line can be a culprit, 'cuz permeated hoses will stink up any area
they pass through...but odor that's mainly inside the head has to
originate in the head--the toilet intake, a sump, or trapped water in a
bilge directly below the head sole. Odor that's all pervasive
throughout the boat is most likely to be due to permeated hoses or a
bilge in need of a REAL cleaning instead of just more bilge cleaner
dumped into the primordial soup.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Oh Ian it does sound as if PAtience has the familiar aroma of an old
clipper...maybe just the aroma of Indias best is missing...I feel you
might not have been at home on Solitaire and been banished to the aft
deck to act as BAr B que chef No 1. Certainly wouldn t have been
allowed in the saloon with the well used pipe !!!!!!!


SeeYA

John

Ian Wright wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:18:33 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Getting rid of the source of the odor gets rid of the odor. Air
fresheners only mask odors.

There is another way. Own a boat that is supposed to
smell,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Get a wooden boat, oil, varnish or paint it.
Use kerosine to heat, light and cook. A diesel engine for power. Start
smoking, A pipe is good though cigars or hand rolling 'baccy will do.
Eat lots of crispy fried bacon and/or chilli.
Follow these few simple rules and the delicate whiff of head hose will
fade into the background,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I've just spent a couple of months sailing in Holland. Met lots of
nice people including one young lady visitor who remarked "Wonderful!
A real wooden boat, and it smells like a boat should, just like my
father's old Botter." At least I think she said
Botter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ian Wright, Patience, Vertue 203

--

John Howell Chaka of Birdham MFAX-7
GM4ZQH
Edinburgh Scotland
_____________/)_____________/)______________/)______________

For Peggie
 

I sent this to the spamtrap, which, of course, spat it out :{)) - and, I
discover that I haven't her current address in my book to send it
directly...

From: "Skip Gundlach"
To: "Peggie Hall"
Subject: For Peggie
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:59 AM

Hi, Peggie,

I just ordered my copy - do I recall correctly that you've moved off the
lake?

L8R

Skip (and Lydia, newlyweds, still sailboatless)
--

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peggie Hall"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.cruising
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:17 PM
Subject: For Peggie


Jim Carter wrote:
Hi Peggie: Where can I buy your book, in Ontario, Canada?

It's been out such a short time that it's not in any boat stores
yet...but you can order it directly from the publisher (see the link in
my sig below) or, if you'd like a signed copy, from
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Postage to Canada isn't that bad...only about double the US rate and
books don't have to have a customs declaration.

Thanks for asking!

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

For Peggie
 

Skip Gundlach wrote:
I sent this to the spamtrap, which, of course, spat it out :{)) - and, I
discover that I haven't her current address in my book to send it
directly...
I just ordered my copy - do I recall correctly that you've moved off the
lake?

Yep...I moved to Little Rock in Oct of '01 to be a good idea to be a bit
closer than 500 miles to my (now) 88 yr old dad. No, I didn't move in
with him--the only person who'd have hated that more than me is him! I
bought a house exactly 4 miles from him. I'm also boatless for the
duration. The only places I'd have wanted to put Solitaire are more than
2 hours away...I wouldn't be able to use to her enough to keep all the
work I put into her from deteriorating. So, to borrow a line from
Tennessee Williams, I'm "dependent on the kindness of strangers" to
spend any time on the water. :)

Email address is btw...

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html