Buy some real high-quality radios from Sailor instead. Their SSB is
fantastic.

www.sailor.dk

/Marcus



On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:58:31 GMT, (Larry) wrote:

See the picture on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I took with a
tiny little Logitech camera today while installing a whole suite of
Icom radios into my buddy Geoffrey's Amel Sharpi ketch we brought to
Charleston from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks back. Gotta have all
the toys....(c;

The Icom M802 HF SSB/GMDSS/DSC radio sells, without the antenna tuner
from Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta for $2,399 + tax and recappable
tires. The AT-140 antenna tuner adds another $480 and tax to that
total, almost THREE GRAND in HF radio......

Then WHY SO CHEAP, ICOM?....DAMMIT!!

1) The tiny little Japanese 6-pin plug that's the control output for
the tuner is a little fragile plastic plug that's NOT sealed in any
way. It plugs into a tiny, little Japanese male outlet on the main
SSB radio. This plug, if you are to install the proper cable (not
included), instead of an overpriced Icom cable with the plugs already
on them, making them impossible to thread through cable runs inside
the boat loaded up with other wires, MUST BE ASSEMBLED! Notice how
the plug is a SIX PIN PLUG....

Icom only uses FOUR of the 6 pins in this tiny little cheap connector
AND ONLY PROVIDES FOUR TEE-TINY LITTLE PINS LEAVING ZERO ROOM FOR
ASSEMBLY ERROR ABOARD A ROCKING BOAT! You don't even get the OTHER
TWO PINS it doesn't use as goof-up spares! These loose female contact
are VERY fragile, very small and easy to bend or break. The contacts
probably cost $1/thousand at the OEM order level.....SO WHY DID ICOM
ONLY PUT FOUR OF THEM IN THE PLUG KIT?!!.....&#)(*&@_#)(#@)$(*&#@%$
(EXPLETIVES DELETED) I got them installed without incident but what
if someone makes a tiny mistake and breaks one? Why, oh why, oh why
should he have to WAIT WEEKS FOR REPLACEMENTS OF SUCH CHEAP PARTS??!!!

2)....This same cheap, unsealed plastic inline connector is hanging
out of the AT-140 antenna tuner on a little piece of cable, OUT IN THE
WEATHER or on some boats IN THE HUMID, DAMP, CORRODING BILGE under
some settee someplace. WHY CAN'T A $500 ANTENNA TUNER HAVE SEALING,
WATERPROOF CABLE CONNECTORS MOUNTED RIGHT INTO THE ANTENNA TUNER'S
WATERPROOF HOUSING??!! Hello? Icom? Does anyone at Icom own a boat?
Ever worked on a boat? Ever seen an unprotected connector eaten by
electrolysis because it was exposed to SEAWATER with 13.8VDC on it?!!
Arrgh!.....(puke). Ok, so we'll get rid of this cheap little
connector, right? The ANTENNA TUNER INSTRUCTION MANUAL shows that
inside the tuner this useless pigtail wire is screwed into a TERMINAL
BLOCK on the main PC board, on a European-style terminal block made
for bare wires....right? WRONG AGAIN, FISH BREATH!! The damned
pigtail is SOLDERED to fine little wires that are soldered to the PC
board WHERE THE TERMINAL BLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO GO!!

DAMMIT ICOM, WHY IS THIS $500 TUNER MISSING THE LITTLE TERMINAL BLOCK
THAT COSTS AN OEM $1.39?!!! DAMNED CHEAPSKATES!!

My plan was to open the tuner, unscrew the wires from the terminal
block on the PC board and install the custom cable I pulled into the
wireways in the boat, through the waterproof cable squeezer straight
into the MISSING TERMINAL BLOCK!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!

I cannot pull the main PC board out of the tuner because of all the
HOT GLUED PARTS making disassembly impossible. I'm afraid if I
unsolder the pigtail cable from the little wires soldered to the
board, I may also unsolder the little wires from the unremovable
bottom of the main PC board.

I feel just like the Aflac Duck walking out of the barber shop with
Yogi Berra in the commercial.......AHHHHHHH!!!!GGGGhhh!!!!

Stupid Icom for a unit that retails for $3000 to be constructed so
cheaply!! This ISN'T a consumer ham radio for someone's
hamshack...THIS IS A BOAT RADIO!!! ALL connectors should be
WATERPROOF, EVEN ON THE MAIN CHASSIS!! It's HUMID in a boat!!!

3) The remote unit, that may be mounted outside on some boats, IS
waterproof. it has rubber keys, nice sealed box.....But,
ARRGH!....THE CABLE CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF IT IS A LITTLE MINIATURE
DIN CONNECTOR OFF SOME HAM RADIO MADE FOR SOMEONE'S CAR!! Water is
gonna get into that tiny connector with DC power on it and just EAT
THE PINS RIGHT OFF IT!! Well, Duhhhh!!!.......

Well, I'm gonna have another Newcastle English Ale and stop trying to
figure out how I'm going to put the control cable to the tuner,
tonight. I'll think more about it in the morning.....

I just wanted every one of you to know how this nice radio (otherwise)
is made. Its technology is certainly a wonder....but its construction
is NOT A MARINE RADIO!!!

PS - the matching M602 IS sealed like a marine radio should be. It
has an EXTERNAL heat sink outside the sealed case. THE M802 HAS A FAN
THAT DRAWS SALT AIR INTO THE CABINET TO COOL IT! Think about how
wonderful that's gonna be in 3 years.....(c;

Arrgh.......Any Icom reps or dealers wanna explain this to
me?.....Planned Obsolescense? Payback for losing WW2? Why....WHY?!!

Larry W4CSC
3rd Mate Engineering
S/V "Claire's Navie"
CAREFULLY soldering the FOUR LITTLE PINS you provided........

Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.

/Marcus

--
Marcus AAkesson
Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
Sweden
Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail !

Sailor is a REALLY nice marine SSB but the ones I have seen are almost
impossible to tune on Ham bands. THe Icom 802 is a lot more flexable if
not quite as high quality.

As Larry's sig almost always has his W4 (indicating his age :-)) call
sign on it I suspect that Ham bands are important to him. :-)

Marcus AAkesson wrote:
Buy some real high-quality radios from Sailor instead. Their SSB is
fantastic.

www.sailor.dk

/Marcus



On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:58:31 GMT, (Larry) wrote:


See the picture on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I took with a
tiny little Logitech camera today while installing a whole suite of
Icom radios into my buddy Geoffrey's Amel Sharpi ketch we brought to
Charleston from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks back. Gotta have all
the toys....(c;

The Icom M802 HF SSB/GMDSS/DSC radio sells, without the antenna tuner

from Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta for $2,399 + tax and recappable

tires. The AT-140 antenna tuner adds another $480 and tax to that
total, almost THREE GRAND in HF radio......

Then WHY SO CHEAP, ICOM?....DAMMIT!!

1) The tiny little Japanese 6-pin plug that's the control output for
the tuner is a little fragile plastic plug that's NOT sealed in any
way. It plugs into a tiny, little Japanese male outlet on the main
SSB radio. This plug, if you are to install the proper cable (not
included), instead of an overpriced Icom cable with the plugs already
on them, making them impossible to thread through cable runs inside
the boat loaded up with other wires, MUST BE ASSEMBLED! Notice how
the plug is a SIX PIN PLUG....

Icom only uses FOUR of the 6 pins in this tiny little cheap connector
AND ONLY PROVIDES FOUR TEE-TINY LITTLE PINS LEAVING ZERO ROOM FOR
ASSEMBLY ERROR ABOARD A ROCKING BOAT! You don't even get the OTHER
TWO PINS it doesn't use as goof-up spares! These loose female contact
are VERY fragile, very small and easy to bend or break. The contacts
probably cost $1/thousand at the OEM order level.....SO WHY DID ICOM
ONLY PUT FOUR OF THEM IN THE PLUG KIT?!!.....&#)(*&@_#)(#@)$(*&#@%$
(EXPLETIVES DELETED) I got them installed without incident but what
if someone makes a tiny mistake and breaks one? Why, oh why, oh why
should he have to WAIT WEEKS FOR REPLACEMENTS OF SUCH CHEAP PARTS??!!!

2)....This same cheap, unsealed plastic inline connector is hanging
out of the AT-140 antenna tuner on a little piece of cable, OUT IN THE
WEATHER or on some boats IN THE HUMID, DAMP, CORRODING BILGE under
some settee someplace. WHY CAN'T A $500 ANTENNA TUNER HAVE SEALING,
WATERPROOF CABLE CONNECTORS MOUNTED RIGHT INTO THE ANTENNA TUNER'S
WATERPROOF HOUSING??!! Hello? Icom? Does anyone at Icom own a boat?
Ever worked on a boat? Ever seen an unprotected connector eaten by
electrolysis because it was exposed to SEAWATER with 13.8VDC on it?!!
Arrgh!.....(puke). Ok, so we'll get rid of this cheap little
connector, right? The ANTENNA TUNER INSTRUCTION MANUAL shows that
inside the tuner this useless pigtail wire is screwed into a TERMINAL
BLOCK on the main PC board, on a European-style terminal block made
for bare wires....right? WRONG AGAIN, FISH BREATH!! The damned
pigtail is SOLDERED to fine little wires that are soldered to the PC
board WHERE THE TERMINAL BLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO GO!!

DAMMIT ICOM, WHY IS THIS $500 TUNER MISSING THE LITTLE TERMINAL BLOCK
THAT COSTS AN OEM $1.39?!!! DAMNED CHEAPSKATES!!

My plan was to open the tuner, unscrew the wires from the terminal
block on the PC board and install the custom cable I pulled into the
wireways in the boat, through the waterproof cable squeezer straight
into the MISSING TERMINAL BLOCK!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!

I cannot pull the main PC board out of the tuner because of all the
HOT GLUED PARTS making disassembly impossible. I'm afraid if I
unsolder the pigtail cable from the little wires soldered to the
board, I may also unsolder the little wires from the unremovable
bottom of the main PC board.

I feel just like the Aflac Duck walking out of the barber shop with
Yogi Berra in the commercial.......AHHHHHHH!!!!GGGGhhh!!!!

Stupid Icom for a unit that retails for $3000 to be constructed so
cheaply!! This ISN'T a consumer ham radio for someone's
hamshack...THIS IS A BOAT RADIO!!! ALL connectors should be
WATERPROOF, EVEN ON THE MAIN CHASSIS!! It's HUMID in a boat!!!

3) The remote unit, that may be mounted outside on some boats, IS
waterproof. it has rubber keys, nice sealed box.....But,
ARRGH!....THE CABLE CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF IT IS A LITTLE MINIATURE
DIN CONNECTOR OFF SOME HAM RADIO MADE FOR SOMEONE'S CAR!! Water is
gonna get into that tiny connector with DC power on it and just EAT
THE PINS RIGHT OFF IT!! Well, Duhhhh!!!.......

Well, I'm gonna have another Newcastle English Ale and stop trying to
figure out how I'm going to put the control cable to the tuner,
tonight. I'll think more about it in the morning.....

I just wanted every one of you to know how this nice radio (otherwise)
is made. Its technology is certainly a wonder....but its construction
is NOT A MARINE RADIO!!!

PS - the matching M602 IS sealed like a marine radio should be. It
has an EXTERNAL heat sink outside the sealed case. THE M802 HAS A FAN
THAT DRAWS SALT AIR INTO THE CABINET TO COOL IT! Think about how
wonderful that's gonna be in 3 years.....(c;

Arrgh.......Any Icom reps or dealers wanna explain this to
me?.....Planned Obsolescense? Payback for losing WW2? Why....WHY?!!

Larry W4CSC
3rd Mate Engineering
S/V "Claire's Navie"
CAREFULLY soldering the FOUR LITTLE PINS you provided........

Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.


/Marcus



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:18:35 +0200, Marcus AAkesson
wrote:

Buy some real high-quality radios from Sailor instead. Their SSB is
fantastic.

www.sailor.dk

/Marcus

"Sailor RT4822 includes a transceiver unit and a handset. The
SPARC-BUS interface, an advanced balanced data and AF interface, can
be used to interconnect multiple control units and for exterior
computer based control/programming options."

OH BOY! Another incompatible, non-communicating data protocol that
won't talk to anything else on the boat! Who else uses Sparc (besides
Sun, that is)??

I do see there's a secondary NMEA interface back there, somewhere,
though.

The other problem you'll have is SERVICE.....

From the webpage:
Please, choose a country:

Austria
Faroe Islands
Iceland
Rumania

Belgium
Finland
Ireland
Russia (C.I.S.)

Bulgaria
France
Italy
Spain

Croatia
Germany
Latvia/Lithuania
Sweden

Cyprus
Gibraltar
Malta
Switzerland

Denmark
Greece
Norway
Turkey

Estonia
Greenland
Poland
Ukraine


Holland
Portugal
UK/Eire

It is refreshing to know I could get it fixed in the Ukraine or
Estonia, but what happens over the rest of the planet....places like
USA, Canada, S America, Caribbean Islands, Hawaii, Tahiti, Oz, NZ??

Be great if you never leave Europe......er, ah, except maybe for the
Army Green color......

Pass....but thanks for pointing it out....



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:29:15 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:

Sailor is a REALLY nice marine SSB but the ones I have seen are almost
impossible to tune on Ham bands. THe Icom 802 is a lot more flexable if
not quite as high quality.

As Larry's sig almost always has his W4 (indicating his age :-)) call
sign on it I suspect that Ham bands are important to him. :-)

Press 3 buttons while turning the Icom M802 on and its transceive
frequency range expands to 1.6-30 Mhz.....including all the ham bands.
Before turning the boat over to the "just sailor" clan, press the 3
buttons again and it switches the HF SSB back over so it will only
transmit on the pre-programmed marine channels....more goof-proof for
the CB crowd....(c;

73, Larry W4CSC......er, ah, which IS a vanity call because I'm NOT
THAT OLD!! I was SO young they had run out of K2 calls so I had to
get WA2 then WB4 when I moved to SC in '64....(c;

Whisky Four Charleston South Carolina.........is the idea...


Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...

"Sailor RT4822 includes a transceiver unit and a handset. The
SPARC-BUS interface, an advanced balanced data and AF interface, can
be used to interconnect multiple control units and for exterior
computer based control/programming options."

OH BOY! Another incompatible, non-communicating data protocol that
won't talk to anything else on the boat! Who else uses Sparc (besides
Sun, that is)??

I do see there's a secondary NMEA interface back there, somewhere,
though.

The other problem you'll have is SERVICE.....

From the webpage:
Please, choose a country:

Austria
Faroe Islands
Iceland
Rumania

big snip

It is refreshing to know I could get it fixed in the Ukraine or
Estonia, but what happens over the rest of the planet....places like
USA, Canada, S America, Caribbean Islands, Hawaii, Tahiti, Oz, NZ??

Well, on the page before the one you cited it says:
Africa
Asia and the Oceania
Europe
North America
South America
The Middle East

So, exactly *what* is your problem???

Meindert

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:10:58 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
wrote:


So, exactly *what* is your problem???

Meindert

It's service network is very small on this side of the pond.

OD Green looks awful against any wood panel....



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:29:15 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:

Sailor is a REALLY nice marine SSB but the ones I have seen are almost
impossible to tune on Ham bands.

The new all-digital HC4500 SSB is according to information no problem
to open up for the ham bands. I know people who are using it that way,
for example

www.reginasailing.com


/Marcus

--
Marcus AAkesson
Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
Sweden
Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail !

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:58:59 GMT, (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

"Sailor RT4822 includes a transceiver unit and a handset. The
SPARC-BUS interface, an advanced balanced data and AF interface, can
be used to interconnect multiple control units and for exterior
computer based control/programming options."

OH BOY! Another incompatible, non-communicating data protocol that
won't talk to anything else on the boat! Who else uses Sparc (besides
Sun, that is)??

Completely irrelevant. This is like asking what kind of protocol icom
and others are using in their microphones with control buttons, it's
not meant to be interfaced to any other equipment than a secondary
control post.


I do see there's a secondary NMEA interface back there, somewhere,
though.

Exactly, open standards for You....

The other problem you'll have is SERVICE.....

Why? There are 9 locations listed.

Texas
Alabama
California
San Francisco
Florida
Louisiana
New York
Virginia
Washington

They hardly ever break anyways.
They wouldn't be one of the top choices for the commercial fleets if
they needed service often. Quite the opposite, Sailor radios are known
to just work for decades without a glitch.









/Marcus

--
Marcus AAkesson
Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
Sweden
Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail !

The inevitable question: $$$$?

Marcus AAkesson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:29:15 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:


Sailor is a REALLY nice marine SSB but the ones I have seen are almost
impossible to tune on Ham bands.


The new all-digital HC4500 SSB is according to information no problem
to open up for the ham bands. I know people who are using it that way,
for example

www.reginasailing.com


/Marcus



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com