Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Sounds like a possible head gasket failure which can be caused by
overheating.

Rusted thermostat may have been the cause.

Alec


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Blown head gasket was my thought too.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Alec" wrote in message
...
Sounds like a possible head gasket failure which can be caused by
overheating.

Rusted thermostat may have been the cause.

Alec


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Thanks for the help. The thermostat was rusted open which would not
cause overheating. The temp went to 190 on the tell tale gauge .Am I
wrong in my assumption that 190 should not have damaged anything? I
have seen auto engines peak at 240 and not do any damage when shut down
quick. Heck most auto engines run from 190-220 or higher. I know this
boat inboard is not exact but it is the same base engine as an auto.
Again the stat was rusted open so it would not close. I need to know
what caused it to overheat. Not knowing the marine cooling and exhaust
systems puts me at an disadvantage. Any thoughts?


Alec wrote:
Sounds like a possible head gasket failure which can be caused by
overheating.

Rusted thermostat may have been the cause.

Alec


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

If you have a mechanical fuel pump, that might be the problem. I had
this on my old Land Rover and just this year I was able to help someone
in my marina with the same issue.
Mechanical fuel pumps have a diaphragm. If this gets even a pinhole
leak, the leak dumps fuel into the crankcase each time the pump
strokes. At least on the pump models I encountered.

It doesn't take long to dump a quart of fuel into the crankcase, even
through a pinhole..

Regards,

Harry

wrote:
Thanks for the help. The thermostat was rusted open which would not
cause overheating. The temp went to 190 on the tell tale gauge .Am I
wrong in my assumption that 190 should not have damaged anything? I
have seen auto engines peak at 240 and not do any damage when shut down
quick. Heck most auto engines run from 190-220 or higher. I know this
boat inboard is not exact but it is the same base engine as an auto.
Again the stat was rusted open so it would not close. I need to know
what caused it to overheat. Not knowing the marine cooling and exhaust
systems puts me at an disadvantage. Any thoughts?


Alec wrote:
Sounds like a possible head gasket failure which can be caused by
overheating.

Rusted thermostat may have been the cause.

Alec


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

The fact that the oil level increased and that the oil was contaminated
points to a failed head gasket.

If the thermostat was rusted then this suggests that there was no antifreeze
with corrosion protectors in the cooling system..

I assume the cooling system is indirect, that is the raw/sea water does not
pass through the block of the engine.

Alec


wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the help. The thermostat was rusted open which would not
cause overheating. The temp went to 190 on the tell tale gauge .Am I
wrong in my assumption that 190 should not have damaged anything? I
have seen auto engines peak at 240 and not do any damage when shut down
quick. Heck most auto engines run from 190-220 or higher. I know this
boat inboard is not exact but it is the same base engine as an auto.
Again the stat was rusted open so it would not close. I need to know
what caused it to overheat. Not knowing the marine cooling and exhaust
systems puts me at an disadvantage. Any thoughts?


Alec wrote:
Sounds like a possible head gasket failure which can be caused by
overheating.

Rusted thermostat may have been the cause.

Alec


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Could also be related to the water pump.

Alec
wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the help. The thermostat was rusted open which would not
cause overheating. The temp went to 190 on the tell tale gauge .Am I
wrong in my assumption that 190 should not have damaged anything? I
have seen auto engines peak at 240 and not do any damage when shut down
quick. Heck most auto engines run from 190-220 or higher. I know this
boat inboard is not exact but it is the same base engine as an auto.
Again the stat was rusted open so it would not close. I need to know
what caused it to overheat. Not knowing the marine cooling and exhaust
systems puts me at an disadvantage. Any thoughts?


Alec wrote:
Sounds like a possible head gasket failure which can be caused by
overheating.

Rusted thermostat may have been the cause.

Alec


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

"HarryV" wrote in news:1158252466.868700.179920
@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:

Mechanical fuel pumps have a diaphragm. If this gets even a pinhole
leak, the leak dumps fuel into the crankcase each time the pump
strokes. At least on the pump models I encountered.



Good call, Harry. I'm trying to figure out how a blown head gasket could
cause GASOLINE to be dumped into the crankcase that is ALREADY a gas when
it enters the head where the blown head gasket the others are touting as
the cause resides. Blown head gaskets result in carbon or oil in the
water, which would simply be blown overboard in a directly-cooled
freshwater-cooled boat. I don't think there's supposed to be raw gas
around the head gasket....

Worse than your experience was my 6.2L DIESEL V-8 direct fuel pump in the
Chevy P-20. The hole in the diaphram DRAINED the fuel filter on top of the
engine back down into the crankcase every time it sat overnight. The
siphon effect pulled it back through the injection pump, making starting a
long, drawn out cranking process. The new primary mechanical pump
instantly restored fast starting in the diesel and eliminated the fuel-in-
the-oil problem. Good call....

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Hi sorry I should have pointed it out it is an open cooling system. I
will be doing a compression check but I have no signs of fouling on the
plugs which I would see if water was entering the cyls. I guess a
cracked block would be something to look at as it could allow that to
happen.
Alec wrote:
The fact that the oil level increased and that the oil was contaminated
points to a failed head gasket.

If the thermostat was rusted then this suggests that there was no antifreeze
with corrosion protectors in the cooling system..

I assume the cooling system is indirect, that is the raw/sea water does not
pass through the block of the engine.

Alec


wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the help. The thermostat was rusted open which would not
cause overheating. The temp went to 190 on the tell tale gauge .Am I
wrong in my assumption that 190 should not have damaged anything? I
have seen auto engines peak at 240 and not do any damage when shut down
quick. Heck most auto engines run from 190-220 or higher. I know this
boat inboard is not exact but it is the same base engine as an auto.
Again the stat was rusted open so it would not close. I need to know
what caused it to overheat. Not knowing the marine cooling and exhaust
systems puts me at an disadvantage. Any thoughts?


Alec wrote:
Sounds like a possible head gasket failure which can be caused by
overheating.

Rusted thermostat may have been the cause.

Alec


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just bought my first boat. I am a newbie. I bought a ski boat a 1989
Forrester 160 Phathom with an OMC Cobra 2.3 (Ford) The dealer said
they rebuilt the outdrive and went over the boat to be 100%
operational. I paid much more than the boat is worth but I thought it
was a deal if the thing was 100%. It was sold AS-IS.
We had it out for an hour and all was well, sorta a get to know me
cruise. Freshwater. A few days later took it out for 3 hours and had
trouble with the stat sticking open. Also the boat just stopped moving
engine was running. Brought it back to the dealer and left it. Cost me
250.00 had to put on a new prop. Said the rubber bushing was shot as
the prop was old. We did not hit anything as we were in 20' minimum
fresh water. Well now it does not look like it is anywhere near 100%
The dealer had to order the stat. The holiday was here and we planned
on taking it out so the dealer said ok since the stat was stuck open.
We took it out and was out for about an hour and now the speedometer
quit, and the engine was running a bit funny so I decided to get it in.
On the way in the engine quit. I drifted into the dock. The engine
temp was 190* but it jumped there in a very short time as I was always
looking at the gauge. We got it out and brought it home. A few days
later decided to pull the stat as the dealer still did not have it. I
pulled the stat and it was rusted open. I checked the oil (checked it
before each use and was good) but now it was greenish brown and had a
qt too much. It smells like gas. I am not sure but if it was water
wouldn't it seperate from the oil after sitting? This has stayed mixed
like it was cut with a solvent. I feel it is gas but how would it get
in it. I pulled the plugs and they look ok no fouling from water. (I
used to drag race and built my own engines so I am not lost around
engines. I admit the marine is a whole new world.) Since I know nothing
about marine systems the only way I know gas gets in the oil would be
rings but not in that amount. I will not trust the dealer and now I
need to fix it myself as I am way over budget on this with what I paid
for it. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks Jim please email your response to

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:
Just bought my first boat.

Rusty thermostat implies no coolant / protectant which would further
imply a cracked block. You may also have blown rings or valve guides/seals.

How would one use coolant/protectant on an open system? It uses
riverwater as coolant. Am I missing something? Wow this boating stuff
is more involved than I could have thought. I did a compression check
and that is fine. 175-165 so I think that lets out a head gasket. I
fired it up after changing the oil and ran it for 30 min and then
checked the oil and its fine. Something weird has happened or something
I did caused this to happen I think. Someone said something about a
flapper in the exhaust if stuck could see this when launching the boat
and when coming off plane too quick (as I do). Any suggestions?

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:54:12 -0400, Larry wrote:

"HarryV" wrote in news:1158252466.868700.179920
:

Mechanical fuel pumps have a diaphragm. If this gets even a pinhole
leak, the leak dumps fuel into the crankcase each time the pump
strokes. At least on the pump models I encountered.



Good call, Harry.
///
Worse than your experience was my 6.2L DIESEL V-8 direct fuel pump in the
Chevy P-20. The hole in the diaphram DRAINED the fuel filter on top of the
engine back down into the crankcase every time it sat overnight.
///

Then there was my old Chevy, whose oil level would rise.
Co incidentally, the transmission oil level would go down.

Hard to credit, but the modulation valve in the transmission which is
plumbed to the engine inlet manifold, had a pin hole, and passing
transmission oil.
Not sure how it got to the engine oil - I'm guessing via the inlet
manifold to valve cover pipe - this is intended to eat engine blow by
fumes.
The moral being - engines do the darndest things.....

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

On 14 Sep 2006 12:47:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 17:57:14 +0100, "Alec" said:

Can anyone offer any suggestions?

There was a very similar question on NPR's Car Talk radio show last weekend.
IIRC the answer had to do with failure of the gasoline to burn fully,
resulting in its running down the cylinder walls into the sump. Try a Google
search with Click, Clack (for the click and clack brothers) and "Car Talk"
and you may find it.


Hmmm..Click n Clack run an entertainment show (no disrespect).
A question about oil leaking from transmission to engine oil stopped
them dead - so I never felt quite the same about them afterwards :-)

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

On 14 Sep 2006 12:21:22 -0700, wrote:

Hi sorry I should have pointed it out it is an open cooling system. I
will be doing a compression check but I have no signs of fouling on the
plugs which I would see if water was entering the cyls.
///
Alec

Hmmmm... not quite the same scenario: but if a gasket leaks in
a two stroke outboard, the visible sign is a squeaky clean spark plug.

Some things you know, just ain't so......

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Brian Whatcott wrote:
On 14 Sep 2006 12:21:22 -0700, wrote:

Hi sorry I should have pointed it out it is an open cooling system. I
will be doing a compression check but I have no signs of fouling on the
plugs which I would see if water was entering the cyls.
///
Alec

Hmmmm... not quite the same scenario: but if a gasket leaks in
a two stroke outboard, the visible sign is a squeaky clean spark plug.

Some things you know, just ain't so......

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Your right, I am thinking in the mindset of a closed pressurized
cooling system with anti freeze. I(I am an auto engine based person) f
that leaks in it will burn but leaves a nasty yellowish clump of
garbage on the plug. I guess my boat with just plain water would leave
them clean but my plugs have a hint of rich (sooting) which would not
be there if water was induced. So I guess I was in the right ball park
just on the wrong team!

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Charlie Morgan wrote in news:e2llg2h30vojnberi523bk3il0bsh9k2in@
4ax.com:

I enjoy listening to the show and seeing of I can come up with the
answer before they do.

CWM



No need to waste Saturday mornings when you can listen online any time....

http://www.cartalk.com/Radio/Show/



--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Brian Whatcott wrote in
:

Hmmmm... not quite the same scenario: but if a gasket leaks in
a two stroke outboard, the visible sign is a squeaky clean spark plug.



Jetski motto: "The two stroke engine runs fastest and best....JUST BEFORE
IT SEIZES."........(C;

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

I guess because the deal was sold as-is. I called him and he said to
let him check it out. I told him I was not going to pay a dealer to do
the work as I already have way to much $$$$ in this boat and he said
let's worry about pay later. Well I am worried about how much its going
to cost me now.
Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:
Just bought my first boat.
Rusty thermostat implies no coolant / protectant which would further
imply a cracked block. You may also have blown rings or valve guides/seals.

How would one use coolant/protectant on an open system? It uses
riverwater as coolant. Am I missing something? Wow this boating stuff
is more involved than I could have thought. I did a compression check
and that is fine. 175-165 so I think that lets out a head gasket. I
fired it up after changing the oil and ran it for 30 min and then
checked the oil and its fine. Something weird has happened or something
I did caused this to happen I think. Someone said something about a
flapper in the exhaust if stuck could see this when launching the boat
and when coming off plane too quick (as I do). Any suggestions?

OK, do you mean a total loss system? If so, then you can't use coolant.
I've never encountered a total loss cooling system so I'm out of this one.

If the seller, a dealer, said the engine was in good shape, why not just
demand that he address the issue?

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Paul Cassel wrote in
:

I agree with you in principle, but here the dealer said the engine was
in fine shape and it wasn't. I think the OP should advise the dealer of
the deficiencies to see if the dealer, due to general policy, will
address or at least diagnose the problem.



One wonders, aloud, if these statements from the dealer's people didn't
create an "implied warranty of merchantability" making these loose
statements to you.....??

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...ts/warrant.htm

In the part about implied warranties, even if there is no written
warranty, it says:

"Implied warranties are created by state law, and all states have them.
Almost every purchase you make is covered by an implied warranty.

The most common type of implied warranty—a "warranty of
merchantability," means that the seller promises that the product will do
what it is supposed to do. For example, a car will run and a toaster will
toast.

Another type of implied warranty is the "warranty of fitness for a
particular purpose." This applies when you buy a product on the seller's
advice that it is suitable for a particular use. For example, a person
who suggests that you buy a certain sleeping bag for zero-degree weather
warrants that the sleeping bag will be suitable for zero degrees.

If your purchase does not come with a written warranty, it is still
covered by implied warranties unless the product is marked "as is," or
the seller otherwise indicates in writing that no warranty is given.
Several states, including Kansas, Maine, Maryland,
Massachusetts, Mississippi, Vermont, West Virginia, and the District of
Columbia, do not permit "as is" sales.

If problems arise that are not covered by the written warranty, you
should investigate the protection given by your implied warranty.

Implied warranty coverage can last as long as four years, although the
length of the coverage varies from state to state. A lawyer or a state
consumer protection office can provide more information about implied
warranty coverage in your state."

This is from the Federal Trade Commission, the people tasked with
enforcement. It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! 15USC50 section
2300. Most interesting reading.

What state are you in? Those listed above prevent businesses from
selling to consumers "as is", under any circumstances.

His making oral statements to you that this engine is in fine running
condition, especially in some states, creates all the warranty you need
to force him to fix it to the status he promised....(c; If you're going
to buy something expensive, even used, it's a great idea to record any
conversations with the sleazy *******s as well as have a friend, who is
not related to you, "casually listening" as a witness for the court
hearings. "Yes, your honor, Salesman Jeffries clearly said this Plymouth
Neon was in perfect condition and would run without trouble." Salesman
Jeffries, of course, was lying through his teeth. He knew the clutch
slipped and it wouldn't start most mornings, the sleazy *******.

"Here's what he told me, your honor.", he said clicking PLAY on his tiny
MP3 recorder for the court to hear the sales pitch....(c;

The look on the dealer's face?........PRICELESS.

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Larry wrote:


http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...ts/warrant.htm

In the part about implied warranties, even if there is no written
warranty, it says:


I don't doubt that with a shark representation, the OP could force the
dealer into a warranty claim. I admire his choice to accept the prima
facie lack of warranty. I mentioned that he go to the dealer only to see
if the dealer, on general principles (as opposed to being coerced into
it) would assist him.

-paul

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Paul Cassel wrote:
Larry wrote:


http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...ts/warrant.htm

In the part about implied warranties, even if there is no written
warranty, it says:


I don't doubt that with a shark representation, the OP could force the
dealer into a warranty claim. I admire his choice to accept the prima
facie lack of warranty. I mentioned that he go to the dealer only to see
if the dealer, on general principles (as opposed to being coerced into
it) would assist him.

-paul

Sorry my post got things heated, it was good reading though. I do
accept the fact it was sold as-is but the trouble I have was I asked
him right out before I made the deal,"Everything is 100% right? It is
not going to fall apart after I start using it. He answered no, its not
going to fall apart its a good boat, I checked it out, ran it in the
river, repaired the drive everything is working fine. I have no problem
selling you this boat.
That was the conversation. Yes, I have an issue being told it was 100%
but then I have to take some blame by accepting the word of someone I
do not know instead of forcing something in writing.

He is willing to look at it but again he said worry about the cost
later. I think this time I have it spelled out in writing.

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Still in Limbo. I am taking it out to the river tomorrow to test it. I
was just informed I can't even get cooling hoses for it anymore. Most
are molded. So get a leak and its all over. it if runs well and seems
to be ok I will try to sell it. I am a bit scared of not being able to
get parts.

Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:

Sorry my post got things heated, it was good reading though. I do
accept the fact it was sold as-is but the trouble I have was I asked
him right out before I made the deal,"Everything is 100% right? It is
not going to fall apart after I start using it. He answered no, its not
going to fall apart its a good boat, I checked it out, ran it in the
river, repaired the drive everything is working fine. I have no problem
selling you this boat.
That was the conversation. Yes, I have an issue being told it was 100%
but then I have to take some blame by accepting the word of someone I
do not know instead of forcing something in writing.

He is willing to look at it but again he said worry about the cost
later. I think this time I have it spelled out in writing.


I doubt anybody was angry at you or at each other. How about posting how
it all came out esp what the problem was?

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Still in Limbo. I am taking it out to the river tomorrow to test it. I
was just informed I can't even get cooling hoses for it anymore. Most
are molded. So get a leak and its all over. it if runs well and seems
to be ok I will try to sell it. I am a bit scared of not being able to
get parts.

Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:

Sorry my post got things heated, it was good reading though. I do
accept the fact it was sold as-is but the trouble I have was I asked
him right out before I made the deal,"Everything is 100% right? It is
not going to fall apart after I start using it. He answered no, its not
going to fall apart its a good boat, I checked it out, ran it in the
river, repaired the drive everything is working fine. I have no problem
selling you this boat.
That was the conversation. Yes, I have an issue being told it was 100%
but then I have to take some blame by accepting the word of someone I
do not know instead of forcing something in writing.

He is willing to look at it but again he said worry about the cost
later. I think this time I have it spelled out in writing.


I doubt anybody was angry at you or at each other. How about posting how
it all came out esp what the problem was?

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

Water or gas in oil Why?
 

I would not hide a thing. I would make it clear the boat is 17 years
old and the company is no longer in business. For every person that
tells me the parts are no longer available I have 3 tell me I am just
not looking in the right places. So I guess it comes down to what is
important, a parts outlet at every corner or a cheap boat to play with.
For me I want iron clad part availability. I do not like hunting. I
hate flea markets. I want to call or go into the shop order it and have
it in a few days. I do not want to search ebay for them.

So I guess it is all what you want. Yes, I want a new boat! Now tell my
wife to agree.

Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:
Still in Limbo. I am taking it out to the river tomorrow to test it. I
was just informed I can't even get cooling hoses for it anymore. Most
are molded. So get a leak and its all over. it if runs well and seems
to be ok I will try to sell it. I am a bit scared of not being able to
get parts.

I suspect there is a solution to replacing molded hoses. They are common
enough and there are plenty of old boats / trucks / cars running around
today which used them.

I will leave it to you the ethics of selling something you think is a
timebomb. I expect you learned a lesson. I suppose now it's time for the
next guy in line to learn one.

-paul