|
My very first boat!!!
Hi all,
I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
I suggest you read this to start in order to get some idea of what
lies ahead and the intimidating economics of buying a used boat. http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm -- Roger Long "Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
At our club we have a sailboat like your and it owner like it a lot.
I am on the market for another sailboat. I visited http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm and found it very interesting. I wonder if you could gave a picture of the financial implication in purchasing your pre - owned sailboat like you did. That is the purchased price along with all the refurbishing and upgrading you have done to bring the sailboat to the stage it is now. The learning curve to know what to and how to fix and repair may be hard to establish. The idea is If I purchase a pre - owned sailboat how much should I allocate for sprucing up the boat and make to necessary repair like the stern tube and other things. Over here the insurance companies do require a boat survey when the boat is 20 years old. The surveyor gets pay a percentage of the evaluated replacement value of the boat. Then the insurance companies decide the premium to be paid. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... I suggest you read this to start in order to get some idea of what lies ahead and the intimidating economics of buying a used boat. http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm -- Roger Long "Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote:
Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, There's a school of thought that says a cheap old sailing dinghy is a whole lot cheaper to bang around in, while learning the fine points. Going fresh to a 32 ft sailboat can be done no doubt, but not by most without a few expensive trips to the bank. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
My very first boat!!!
Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? At this time, the best lead is to learn the ropes. You can learn a lot by crewing on other people sailboats. By crewing you will learn what you prefer and what the other boat owners like. Most people prefer the sloop rig equipped with a fin keel. Other people are going for the long keel and the facilities and ease of handling small sails by having a cutter, yawl or ketch rig. Today with the advent of the in mast furling main sail and furling jib a wider stern hull the trend is slowly getting accepted. "Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote: Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, There's a school of thought that says a cheap old sailing dinghy is a whole lot cheaper to bang around in, while learning the fine points. Going fresh to a 32 ft sailboat can be done no doubt, but not by most without a few expensive trips to the bank. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
My very first boat!!!
In article .com,
"Praxi" wrote: Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, YOu give us very little information about yourself. Where is this boat going to be used? Do you need a shower (I would during a week)? Do you want hot water (I guess you might if you plan to cook and clean). Are you tall or short (some care about headroom). I tried to overnight on my J/100 last night for the first time and had to call it quits because of overheating and stale air. There was little air circulation. Which brings me to my point. Air circulation is rarely considered by folks buying a boat. Yet, if you are planning to overnight, weekend, or live aboard, it is likely going to be very important to your long term enjoyment of your boat. I don't know what you know about air circulation but the amount of air circulating in a boat has to do with the amount of free ventilation (screens cut the area in half) and location (you need as much exhaust air ventilation as incoming air). That is why many (but not all) boats have vents on either side of the cabin. Good luck. H -- To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"? |
My very first boat!!!
"sloop rig equipped with a fin keel"
AKA ,,, a lobster pot catcher. I was at the boatyard this week and there were a whole bunch of fin keel boat on the hard. Everyone had some damage to the fin, or rudder. The rudder's were not attached to the keel. A full keel might not be as fast but it does have some advantages. ================================================== ====== wrote in message ... Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? At this time, the best lead is to learn the ropes. You can learn a lot by crewing on other people sailboats. By crewing you will learn what you prefer and what the other boat owners like. Most people prefer the sloop rig equipped with a fin keel. Other people are going for the long keel and the facilities and ease of handling small sails by having a cutter, yawl or ketch rig. Today with the advent of the in mast furling main sail and furling jib a wider stern hull the trend is slowly getting accepted. "Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote: Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, There's a school of thought that says a cheap old sailing dinghy is a whole lot cheaper to bang around in, while learning the fine points. Going fresh to a 32 ft sailboat can be done no doubt, but not by most without a few expensive trips to the bank. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
My very first boat!!!
"Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, At the risk of starting an old religeous war, I would suggest you look at the Gemini or PDQ series of catamrans. A Gemini was the first sailboat I got with my wife. She loved it because it didn't heel. I loved it because I got to sail a lot on it .... because she liked it. We liked it beacuase it had significantly more liveable space than any mono hull in her class. There are many narrow minded people on both sides of the mono / multi hull debate. Listen to what each has to say. Don't take anyone too seriously. I spend many years owning monohulls. Because my wife was happier on the multi, I covered many more miles in them. If you are new, these small cruising cats (Gemini, PDQ) are a great way to get started ---- and they will serve you for a long time. They are great local sailboats that are also great low budget cruising boats. I have seen them migrating up and down the East coast and throughout the Bahamas. Worth taking a look. gemini - www.geminicatamarans.com/ pdq - http://www.pdqyachts.com/sail/index.html for a look at some in the used market - one broker I have used - http://www.2hulls.com/salecat.html |
My very first boat!!!
If your budget has hard limits, I would suggest spending only half of
it on the purchase, no matter how good the survey and how good the boat looks if the boat is over 10 - 15 years old. OTOH I'm glad we didn't follow this rule because we would only have bought half as much boat. -- Roger Long wrote in message ... At our club we have a sailboat like your and it owner like it a lot. I am on the market for another sailboat. I visited http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm and found it very interesting. I wonder if you could gave a picture of the financial implication in purchasing your pre - owned sailboat like you did. That is the purchased price along with all the refurbishing and upgrading you have done to bring the sailboat to the stage it is now. The learning curve to know what to and how to fix and repair may be hard to establish. The idea is If I purchase a pre - owned sailboat how much should I allocate for sprucing up the boat and make to necessary repair like the stern tube and other things. Over here the insurance companies do require a boat survey when the boat is 20 years old. The surveyor gets pay a percentage of the evaluated replacement value of the boat. Then the insurance companies decide the premium to be paid. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... I suggest you read this to start in order to get some idea of what lies ahead and the intimidating economics of buying a used boat. http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm -- Roger Long "Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
Years ago, according to Sailing magazine testing -- the fastest sailboat to
claw off a coast line (getting away from an rough and threatening coast line) is a sloop rig with a fin keel. As for the full keel and attached rudder I agreed that it will not act as a lobster pot catcher the way the fin keel and suspended rudder are doing. They only draw back I see is it may not turn as fast as the fin keel. Nevertheless for long passage making it is still well preferred. "Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message news:442Bg.60$AF1.49@trndny03... "sloop rig equipped with a fin keel" AKA ,,, a lobster pot catcher. I was at the boatyard this week and there were a whole bunch of fin keel boat on the hard. Everyone had some damage to the fin, or rudder. The rudder's were not attached to the keel. A full keel might not be as fast but it does have some advantages. ================================================== ====== wrote in message ... Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? At this time, the best lead is to learn the ropes. You can learn a lot by crewing on other people sailboats. By crewing you will learn what you prefer and what the other boat owners like. Most people prefer the sloop rig equipped with a fin keel. Other people are going for the long keel and the facilities and ease of handling small sails by having a cutter, yawl or ketch rig. Today with the advent of the in mast furling main sail and furling jib a wider stern hull the trend is slowly getting accepted. "Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote: Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, There's a school of thought that says a cheap old sailing dinghy is a whole lot cheaper to bang around in, while learning the fine points. Going fresh to a 32 ft sailboat can be done no doubt, but not by most without a few expensive trips to the bank. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
My very first boat!!!
One must bear in mind that a marine surveyor is only responsible for what he
can see. The hidden defect and fibreglass rot are not always detected. A good example is the stern rubber hose connecting the boat hull to the shaft. If this hose lets go water start to get into the boat very quickly. The same thing applies to the exhaust hoses. These hoses are hard to reach and a visual check is not good, you have to reach them and strongly feel them all around top and bottom. On some boat you can not reach them at all. Last year my friend boat checked his hoses and he stated that the hoses look pretty good. I replied, impossible, not after 23 years of service. We took the hoses out. Yes, the hoses were rotten and were replaced with the new approved hoses. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... If your budget has hard limits, I would suggest spending only half of it on the purchase, no matter how good the survey and how good the boat looks if the boat is over 10 - 15 years old. OTOH I'm glad we didn't follow this rule because we would only have bought half as much boat. -- Roger Long wrote in message ... At our club we have a sailboat like your and it owner like it a lot. I am on the market for another sailboat. I visited http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm and found it very interesting. I wonder if you could gave a picture of the financial implication in purchasing your pre - owned sailboat like you did. That is the purchased price along with all the refurbishing and upgrading you have done to bring the sailboat to the stage it is now. The learning curve to know what to and how to fix and repair may be hard to establish. The idea is If I purchase a pre - owned sailboat how much should I allocate for sprucing up the boat and make to necessary repair like the stern tube and other things. Over here the insurance companies do require a boat survey when the boat is 20 years old. The surveyor gets pay a percentage of the evaluated replacement value of the boat. Then the insurance companies decide the premium to be paid. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... I suggest you read this to start in order to get some idea of what lies ahead and the intimidating economics of buying a used boat. http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm -- Roger Long "Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
I've only caught one pot with my E 32. That was one with a plastic
jug for a buoy that had been punctured and dragged beneath the surface where it tangled up in a bunch of others so the line was stretched out of sight. I'm sure I'll catch another one someday but I now have a hook knife and the handling, maneuverability, and performance are features I'd rather have than being able to blindly plow through pots. -- Roger Long wrote in message ... Years ago, according to Sailing magazine testing -- the fastest sailboat to claw off a coast line (getting away from an rough and threatening coast line) is a sloop rig with a fin keel. As for the full keel and attached rudder I agreed that it will not act as a lobster pot catcher the way the fin keel and suspended rudder are doing. They only draw back I see is it may not turn as fast as the fin keel. Nevertheless for long passage making it is still well preferred. "Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message news:442Bg.60$AF1.49@trndny03... "sloop rig equipped with a fin keel" AKA ,,, a lobster pot catcher. I was at the boatyard this week and there were a whole bunch of fin keel boat on the hard. Everyone had some damage to the fin, or rudder. The rudder's were not attached to the keel. A full keel might not be as fast but it does have some advantages. ================================================== ====== wrote in message ... Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? At this time, the best lead is to learn the ropes. You can learn a lot by crewing on other people sailboats. By crewing you will learn what you prefer and what the other boat owners like. Most people prefer the sloop rig equipped with a fin keel. Other people are going for the long keel and the facilities and ease of handling small sails by having a cutter, yawl or ketch rig. Today with the advent of the in mast furling main sail and furling jib a wider stern hull the trend is slowly getting accepted. "Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote: Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, There's a school of thought that says a cheap old sailing dinghy is a whole lot cheaper to bang around in, while learning the fine points. Going fresh to a 32 ft sailboat can be done no doubt, but not by most without a few expensive trips to the bank. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
My very first boat!!!
See he
http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Strider0605.htm -- Roger Long wrote in message ... One must bear in mind that a marine surveyor is only responsible for what he can see. The hidden defect and fibreglass rot are not always detected. A good example is the stern rubber hose connecting the boat hull to the shaft. If this hose lets go water start to get into the boat very quickly. The same thing applies to the exhaust hoses. These hoses are hard to reach and a visual check is not good, you have to reach them and strongly feel them all around top and bottom. On some boat you can not reach them at all. Last year my friend boat checked his hoses and he stated that the hoses look pretty good. I replied, impossible, not after 23 years of service. We took the hoses out. Yes, the hoses were rotten and were replaced with the new approved hoses. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... If your budget has hard limits, I would suggest spending only half of it on the purchase, no matter how good the survey and how good the boat looks if the boat is over 10 - 15 years old. OTOH I'm glad we didn't follow this rule because we would only have bought half as much boat. -- Roger Long wrote in message ... At our club we have a sailboat like your and it owner like it a lot. I am on the market for another sailboat. I visited http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm and found it very interesting. I wonder if you could gave a picture of the financial implication in purchasing your pre - owned sailboat like you did. That is the purchased price along with all the refurbishing and upgrading you have done to bring the sailboat to the stage it is now. The learning curve to know what to and how to fix and repair may be hard to establish. The idea is If I purchase a pre - owned sailboat how much should I allocate for sprucing up the boat and make to necessary repair like the stern tube and other things. Over here the insurance companies do require a boat survey when the boat is 20 years old. The surveyor gets pay a percentage of the evaluated replacement value of the boat. Then the insurance companies decide the premium to be paid. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... I suggest you read this to start in order to get some idea of what lies ahead and the intimidating economics of buying a used boat. http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm -- Roger Long "Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
Roger Long wrote:
I've only caught one pot with my E 32. That was one with a plastic jug for a buoy that had been punctured and dragged beneath the surface where it tangled up in a bunch of others so the line was stretched out of sight. I'm sure I'll catch another one someday but I now have a hook knife and the handling, maneuverability, and performance are features I'd rather have than being able to blindly plow through pots. In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise. Furthermore, in my experience with both a fin keeler and full keeled boat, the snag crab pots and kelp at about the same frequency. That would be almost every time you run over one. The lobster pot business is not a good way to choose a hull design. Hitting logs with a spade rudder, that is a different story........ Gary |
My very first boat!!!
|
My very first boat!!!
"Gary" wrote
In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise. That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody. -- Roger Long |
My very first boat!!!
It looks very good
I bet the stuffing box hose comes from Hamilton Marine. For us around here a 6 ply hose can only be obtained from Hamilton. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... See he http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Strider0605.htm -- Roger Long wrote in message ... One must bear in mind that a marine surveyor is only responsible for what he can see. The hidden defect and fibreglass rot are not always detected. A good example is the stern rubber hose connecting the boat hull to the shaft. If this hose lets go water start to get into the boat very quickly. The same thing applies to the exhaust hoses. These hoses are hard to reach and a visual check is not good, you have to reach them and strongly feel them all around top and bottom. On some boat you can not reach them at all. Last year my friend boat checked his hoses and he stated that the hoses look pretty good. I replied, impossible, not after 23 years of service. We took the hoses out. Yes, the hoses were rotten and were replaced with the new approved hoses. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... If your budget has hard limits, I would suggest spending only half of it on the purchase, no matter how good the survey and how good the boat looks if the boat is over 10 - 15 years old. OTOH I'm glad we didn't follow this rule because we would only have bought half as much boat. -- Roger Long wrote in message ... At our club we have a sailboat like your and it owner like it a lot. I am on the market for another sailboat. I visited http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm and found it very interesting. I wonder if you could gave a picture of the financial implication in purchasing your pre - owned sailboat like you did. That is the purchased price along with all the refurbishing and upgrading you have done to bring the sailboat to the stage it is now. The learning curve to know what to and how to fix and repair may be hard to establish. The idea is If I purchase a pre - owned sailboat how much should I allocate for sprucing up the boat and make to necessary repair like the stern tube and other things. Over here the insurance companies do require a boat survey when the boat is 20 years old. The surveyor gets pay a percentage of the evaluated replacement value of the boat. Then the insurance companies decide the premium to be paid. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... I suggest you read this to start in order to get some idea of what lies ahead and the intimidating economics of buying a used boat. http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm -- Roger Long "Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to the
water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... "Gary" wrote In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise. That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody. -- Roger Long |
My very first boat!!!
Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise. That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody. Modified fin keel which describes my Tayana 42. I'm sold on this as the best compromise. |
My very first boat!!!
Hitting logs with a spade rudder, that is a different story........
I have noticed that many short keel Catalina's have the rudder deeper than the keel. This means that the first thing that goes aground is the rudder. During my first year of sailing I turned on a dime and inadvertently hit the bottom of the rudder. This resulted in a bent rudder post and minimum steering capability. "Gary" wrote in message news:zB6Bg.325895$IK3.264217@pd7tw1no... Roger Long wrote: I've only caught one pot with my E 32. That was one with a plastic jug for a buoy that had been punctured and dragged beneath the surface where it tangled up in a bunch of others so the line was stretched out of sight. I'm sure I'll catch another one someday but I now have a hook knife and the handling, maneuverability, and performance are features I'd rather have than being able to blindly plow through pots. In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise. Furthermore, in my experience with both a fin keeler and full keeled boat, the snag crab pots and kelp at about the same frequency. That would be almost every time you run over one. The lobster pot business is not a good way to choose a hull design. Hitting logs with a spade rudder, that is a different story........ Gary |
My very first boat!!!
wrote
At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to the water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees. I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I haven't been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression is that the E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction and a lot of volume in the keel (a heritage from the keel / centerboard original design) that reduces its effectiveness. 20 degree heel with 130% Genoa is reached at lower wind speeds than what I would expect from my long ago yacht designing days. I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard driver and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement alone is one contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well in heel to a very light boat of the same sail area even though the more modern one was wider and stiffer. It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's 5% slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same time, it's 5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same motion comfort and lack of pounding as they go to windward. Good compromise if you ask me. -- Roger Long |
My very first boat!!!
I have just checked the RYC spring series result and the Endeavour is listed
as 11 out of 13 racing sailboat the last one being a C&C. Not bad for a cruising design boat. The Endeavour we have at our club has a solid keel not a swing keel. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... wrote At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to the water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees. I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I haven't been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression is that the E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction and a lot of volume in the keel (a heritage from the keel / centerboard original design) that reduces its effectiveness. 20 degree heel with 130% Genoa is reached at lower wind speeds than what I would expect from my long ago yacht designing days. I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard driver and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement alone is one contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well in heel to a very light boat of the same sail area even though the more modern one was wider and stiffer. It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's 5% slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same time, it's 5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same motion comfort and lack of pounding as they go to windward. Good compromise if you ask me. -- Roger Long |
My very first boat!!!
Mine (1980 build) is a solid keel as well. When they went to the
solid keel they just added a few inches to the draft. I've heard, but not been able to substantiate, that similar boats offered in both versions turned up very little difference in windward performance. As a former sailboat designer, I find it quite plausible however. In theory, the long centerboard is a much more efficient foil but getting the high aspect ratio requires exposing a lot of centerboard slot. Since a boat working to windward goes at an angle through the water, the slot actually created quite a bit of drag. Since the centerboards were flat steel plate instead of shaped foils, the end result was a lot of maintenance, complication, and noise for not much gain over simply making the keel about six inches deeper. The keel on the E32 is quite thick which hurts her stability as I noted above. A nice byproduct though is a huge bilge sump. My fingers can just barely reach the bottom of it when lying on the cabin sole and it is wide enough to put batteries or an additional fuel tank down there. Having a lot of deep bilge volume is a good thing if you ever take a sea and get a lot of water in the boat. It quickly drains down low where it doesn't harm the stability and doesn't wash up and down inside the cabin liner working it's way into everything. 11 out of 13 eh? That's better than I would have expected but in line with my thinking that she falls right between the cruisers and racers with as much comfort as cruisers the same size. After two years, I love this boat. If anything happened to her, I'd go looking for another one tomorrow. -- Roger Long wrote in message ... I have just checked the RYC spring series result and the Endeavour is listed as 11 out of 13 racing sailboat the last one being a C&C. Not bad for a cruising design boat. The Endeavour we have at our club has a solid keel not a swing keel. "Roger Long" wrote in message ... wrote At our club when everyone else is heeling with the rub rail close to the water and getting their ears wet, our friend in his E32 sails along with minimum listing of 15 to 20 degrees. I find that a extremely interesting comment. I never race so I haven't been able to compare the E32 to other boats. My impression is that the E32 is not a very stiff boat due to heavy construction and a lot of volume in the keel (a heritage from the keel / centerboard original design) that reduces its effectiveness. 20 degree heel with 130% Genoa is reached at lower wind speeds than what I would expect from my long ago yacht designing days. I'm usually heeled more than other boats but I tend to be a hard driver and the boat goes very well at 30 degrees. Displacement alone is one contributor to stiffness so the E32 might compare well in heel to a very light boat of the same sail area even though the more modern one was wider and stiffer. It's not a fast boat by racing standards but that just means it's 5% slower in a lot of conditions than a racing type. At the same time, it's 5% faster than a lot of traditional cruisers of the same motion comfort and lack of pounding as they go to windward. Good compromise if you ask me. -- Roger Long |
My very first boat!!!
Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise. That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody. If you go to: http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html You can look at the numbers of hundreds of boats. I compared your E 32 with my Truant 33 and they are remarkably similar. Gary |
My very first boat!!!
On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote:
Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? I suggest you charter boats for a few trips - you can try a variety of boats in various sizes to see what works best for you. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
My very first boat!!!
What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn
anything up. -- Roger Long "Gary" wrote in message news:Ze9Bg.326088$IK3.279016@pd7tw1no... Roger Long wrote: "Gary" wrote In fact, the best cruisers are somewhere between being a fin keel, spade rudder setup. Look at the hulls of Valiant and Pacific Seacraft. I believe they are a very good compromise. That pretty much describes the E 32 underbody. If you go to: http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html You can look at the numbers of hundreds of boats. I compared your E 32 with my Truant 33 and they are remarkably similar. Gary |
My very first boat!!!
On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:26:25 -0700, Peter Bennett
wrote: I suggest you charter boats for a few trips - you can try a variety of boats in various sizes to see what works best for you. And *that* is really good advice. You really don't know what is important to you on a boat until you've lived with it for awhile. |
My very first boat!!!
Was aboard a Hans Christian 43 the other day. Big, heavy (40000#), full
keel, all teak and holley, leather upholstery, yada yada yada. With opulence like that, who cares about speed! G "Gary" wrote in message news:%H6Bg.321315$Mn5.165870@pd7tw3no... wrote: Years ago, according to Sailing magazine testing -- the fastest sailboat to claw off a coast line (getting away from an rough and threatening coast line) is a sloop rig with a fin keel. As for the full keel and attached rudder I agreed that it will not act as a lobster pot catcher the way the fin keel and suspended rudder are doing. They only draw back I see is it may not turn as fast as the fin keel. Nevertheless for long passage making it is still well preferred. Won't turn as fast; Won't sail as fast; More hull to sand and paint; Much heavier displacement; Wetter ride in heavy weather; and Much heavier gear (more expensive) for a given size boat. That being said, the Folkboat and its derivatives (Contessa 26, Vancouver 26, Marie Holm) are some of the most attractive and seaworthy boats around. Gary "Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message news:442Bg.60$AF1.49@trndny03... |
My very first boat!!!
Roger Long wrote:
What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn anything up. Same as a Saturna 33. Bill Garden designed pilothouse. |
My very first boat!!!
You can buy boats in this size range from about $5000 to $300,000, did you
have a budget in mind? Where will you sail? Small lake, big lake, ocean? Do you need dockage and or winter storage, have you priced these? There is a serviceable, rugged 22' Hurley F/S at Ithaca, NY, for $2000, winter storage is $900. Lee Haefele "Praxi" wrote in message oups.com... Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, |
My very first boat!!!
Gary wrote:
Roger Long wrote: What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn anything up. Same as a Saturna 33. Bill Garden designed pilothouse. Some online pics of my Truant: http://community.webshots.com/album/515778647hanuJn |
My very first boat!!!
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 07:03:26 GMT, Gary wrote:
Roger Long wrote: What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn anything up. Same as a Saturna 33. Bill Garden designed pilothouse. Looks good. What happens if you lurch against the stainless cooker vent in a blow? Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
My very first boat!!!
Brian Whatcott wrote:
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 07:03:26 GMT, Gary wrote: Roger Long wrote: What's a Truant 33? I never heard of one and Google doesn't turn anything up. Same as a Saturna 33. Bill Garden designed pilothouse. Looks good. What happens if you lurch against the stainless cooker vent in a blow? Brian Whatcott Altus OK When it is blowing (and we are sailing), The Charlie Noble comes off and we close the hole, then there is less chance of flailing sheets snagging the stove pipe. We then use an alcohol stove that fits over the Dickinsen. The stove pipe is pretty well out of the way behind the lower forward shrouds and it would be difficult to lurch against it but never the less it comes off in a blow. I presume you are talking about the outside portion of the stack. The Dickinsen is primarily a fall, winter and spring stove here in the PNW. It keeps the boat warm and dry. On cool summer evenings we light it but not often. Gary |
My very first boat!!!
Gary wrote:
When it is blowing (and we are sailing), The Charlie Noble comes off and we close the hole, then there is less chance of flailing sheets snagging the stove pipe. We then use an alcohol stove that fits over the Dickinsen. The stove pipe is pretty well out of the way behind the lower forward shrouds and it would be difficult to lurch against it but never the less it comes off in a blow. I presume you are talking about the outside portion of the stack. The Dickinsen is primarily a fall, winter and spring stove here in the PNW. It keeps the boat warm and dry. On cool summer evenings we light it but not often. Do you run that stove while sailing? I had a Cole / coal stove on one of my boats, but it was for at anchor only. |
My very first boat!!!
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 18:36:52 GMT, Gary wrote:
Looks good. What happens if you lurch against the stainless cooker vent in a blow? Brian Whatcott Altus OK When it is blowing (and we are sailing), The Charlie Noble comes off and we close the hole, then there is less chance of flailing sheets snagging the stove pipe. We then use an alcohol stove that fits over the Dickinsen. // Gary Ah yes. Thanks Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
My very first boat!!!
Paul Cassel wrote:
Gary wrote: When it is blowing (and we are sailing), The Charlie Noble comes off and we close the hole, then there is less chance of flailing sheets snagging the stove pipe. We then use an alcohol stove that fits over the Dickinsen. The stove pipe is pretty well out of the way behind the lower forward shrouds and it would be difficult to lurch against it but never the less it comes off in a blow. I presume you are talking about the outside portion of the stack. The Dickinsen is primarily a fall, winter and spring stove here in the PNW. It keeps the boat warm and dry. On cool summer evenings we light it but not often. Do you run that stove while sailing? I had a Cole / coal stove on one of my boats, but it was for at anchor only. Yes. It draws fine unless I am close hauled on a starboard tack, then I have to turn it up a bit to keep that draft working well. |
My very first boat!!!
Brian Whatcott wrote: On 4 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0700, "Praxi" wrote: Hi all, I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? Maybe recommend some boats (brand, material, year, model, etc.) to look for? Thank you, There's a school of thought that says a cheap old sailing dinghy is a whole lot cheaper to bang around in, while learning the fine points. Going fresh to a 32 ft sailboat can be done no doubt, but not by most without a few expensive trips to the bank. Brian Whatcott Altus OK Brian, You hit the nail right on the head, a first boat should always be a small one. Your going to learn from it, and it's going to cost you a lot less, with a small boat, when you screw up, AND YOU WILL SCREW UP. Bump into a pole, or another boat, while manuvering in a crowded cove or marina with a small boat, and most cases you end up with little more than a brused ego. Do the same thing with a 35 foot boat, and it's a whole differant ball game. Make no mistake about it, a 30 plus foot boat, for a first boat, is a very big boat. I've seen people get away with it, and every one of them thought they were doing a wounderful job, but those people sent shivers down everyones spine when they saw them comming. John |
My very first boat!!!
"Praxi" wrote:
I'm new to sailing and I would like to buy a (used) boat between 30-35". I'm looking for something that I can spend a couple nights on, now and then, while on a trip; entertain my family, and friends, and maybe live there for a week or so. Can someone give me some leads as to what to look for and what to stay away from? I started with a 30ft boat, I don't regret it. Very easy to single hand and find overnight dockage when on cruise. If it were me, I'd try to find a decent used 30ft Catalina. There are lots of them around, won't cost a lot of money and be easy to sell for what you paid for it when you want to get out. Lew |
My very first boat!!!
In article .com,
Peter Bennett wrote: I suggest you charter boats for a few trips - you can try a variety of boats in various sizes to see what works best for you. OR crew on racing boats: Not only gives you an idea of what's out there and what works *for you*, but you gain valuable instruction fast. The Wednesday night "beer races" may be your best bet as they're often looking for willing victims, so you'll likely have many boats to choose from. Just realize that the friendliest, mildest-mannered person becomes "Captain Bligh" during the race. They usually apologize afterwards, but it's almost impossible to push a boat to its best without high energy. That said, our lovely lady does everything the OP mentioned, plus. Our next big trip, scheduled for when I'm next between jobs, will be the two of us in the Bahamas for a few months. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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