Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

I've been spending a lot of time on the boat and schlepping a lot of
ice. A real refrigerator system isn't in the cards on my small and
simple sailboat (I know it can be done but I don't want to carry and
feed batteries of sufficient size).

I only have hot water at the dock when plugged into AC but it works
well. I heat it up just before leaving and it lasts well into the
first day, especially with some motoring. It occurred to me that a
similar AC set up would be a good compromise. I could leave food on
the boat for a few days and have things nice and cold when I put the
ice in.

I'd like recommendations or experience with a small, simple, AC only
set up that could be retrofitted into a typical sailboat ice box. If
it had storage cold plates, it would be even cooler, er, neater.

--

Roger Long

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

Roger Long wrote:
I've been spending a lot of time on the boat and schlepping a lot of
ice. A real refrigerator system isn't in the cards on my small and
simple sailboat (I know it can be done but I don't want to carry and
feed batteries of sufficient size).

I only have hot water at the dock when plugged into AC but it works
well. I heat it up just before leaving and it lasts well into the
first day, especially with some motoring. It occurred to me that a
similar AC set up would be a good compromise. I could leave food on
the boat for a few days and have things nice and cold when I put the
ice in.

I'd like recommendations or experience with a small, simple, AC only
set up that could be retrofitted into a typical sailboat ice box. If
it had storage cold plates, it would be even cooler, er, neater.

There are portable freezers. Some are 110/12/propane. One came with my
boat but was stolen from the boat when it was on display.

http://www.fridgefreeze.com/
http://www.survivalunlimited.com/refrigerator.htm

Freeze it down with some bottles of water. You have cold water when the
ice melts, cold beer, and a bit of cold storage.

If using propane doesn't bother you under way, you can have it all.

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

There are also Peltier effect coolers on the market. They will cool 20
degrees below ambient. If you load up cold and frozen stuff to start with
one of those can extend your keeping time. We had one on our firts boat
but we still used a ot of ice. A couple of inches more insulation would
also help.

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

Roger,

Why don't you look into an AC and engine run compressor with holding plates.
I put in a Technautics system a few years ago and I love it. I only put in
the 12 volts system but they have other configurations. Check it out:
http://www.technauticsinc.com

If you are in Rockland look me up and I can show you my system.

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

Waeco & others make coolers with proper refrigeration compressors - You
could use this at the dock on AC and if you include some freezer packs or
even just frozen water bottles, you will get through a day without buying
ice.

If you have a small 110V generator, you could run the refrig unit every now
and then and even make some hot water on the go.

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

Gogarty wrote in
:

There are also Peltier effect coolers on the market. They will cool 20
degrees below ambient. If you load up cold and frozen stuff to start
with one of those can extend your keeping time. We had one on our
firts boat but we still used a ot of ice. A couple of inches more
insulation would also help.



Just gave my last one away. 4A of continuous drain, 24/7, to make hot Coke
just warm. Not even close....

If you put cold Cokes in them, they'll keep them nearly cold. If you put
warm Cokes in them, they might cool a six-pack in a month....(sigh)

Useless....

Btu is our FRIEND!

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:37:01 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I'd like recommendations or experience with a small, simple, AC only
set up that could be retrofitted into a typical sailboat ice box. If
it had storage cold plates, it would be even cooler, er, neater.

By far the simplest and cheapest refrigeration you can get is a small
"dorm" type fridge. Prices are typically in the $100+ range, and they
can also be run from a small inverter if you have a decent battery
bank.

After that, things get expensive very quickly. An apartment style
"under the counter" unit is typically in the $500 to $1000 range
depending on quality, same for the 12/110 volt Nevercold units.
Holding plate systems are generally $2000+.

I think that if I were in your situation I'd opt for the dorm type
unit with a few bricks of plastic "blue ice" in the freezer space to
act as inexpensive holding plates.

For extended cruising without a generator there is nothing like
holding plates with an engine mounted compressor. Second best is
holding plates with an external 12 volt compressor. Good box
insulation is critical for any of these systems.

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

I would have to agree with Wayne. Unless you are prepared to drop at least
a boat buck building in a box a little dorm or bar refrigerator like these:
http://www.compactappliance.com/xq/J...rigerators.htm
with the freezer section loaded with blue ice will be under $150.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I've been spending a lot of time on the boat and schlepping a lot of ice.
A real refrigerator system isn't in the cards on my small and simple
sailboat (I know it can be done but I don't want to carry and feed
batteries of sufficient size).

I only have hot water at the dock when plugged into AC but it works well.
I heat it up just before leaving and it lasts well into the first day,
especially with some motoring. It occurred to me that a similar AC set up
would be a good compromise. I could leave food on the boat for a few days
and have things nice and cold when I put the ice in.

I'd like recommendations or experience with a small, simple, AC only set
up that could be retrofitted into a typical sailboat ice box. If it had
storage cold plates, it would be even cooler, er, neater.

--

Roger Long

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

Dry Ice?

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

If one of these old R-12 units springs a leak is it toast or can it be
refilled (legally) with a currently available refrigerant?

My other question, closely related, is what you think about pulling
the working stuff out of one of these and installing it in the icebox.
Since I would have to break some lines somewhere, recharging would be
an issue.

--

Roger Long

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

You can still get R12 but it cost an arm and a leg. Probably not a good
idea to try to replace it with a newer refrigerant.

If you are into building a small well insulated box it is possible to gut a
little 1.7 cu.ft. box and use the parts. These little boxes only have an
inch or so of insulation so a well insulated box will help a lot. Don't try
just wrapping one with more insulation because moisture will condense on the
sheet metal and rust it out.

They are sealed R-134 systems so if you have to open it you should get a
tech to evacuate it, add a service valve and seal it up once you get it all
set up. You would need to add some protection for the rollbond evaporator
because the ones in those cheap refers are pretty delicate. Try to mount it
is about the same orientation as there is a top and a bottom. Don't attempt
to reshape one because without the right equipment you will probably crimp
the tubing. Pay attention to where the thermostat tube mounts on the
evaporator and put it back in the same place. The condenser is just a
length of copper tube mounted on the back with brackets. You could put it
anywhere as long as it has good ventilation and is not to far from the rest
of the equipment.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
If one of these old R-12 units springs a leak is it toast or can it be
refilled (legally) with a currently available refrigerant?

My other question, closely related, is what you think about pulling the
working stuff out of one of these and installing it in the icebox. Since I
would have to break some lines somewhere, recharging would be an issue.

--

Roger Long

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

On 23 Jul 2006 03:38:23 -0700, "Keith"
wrote:

Dry Ice?

No way.

The dry ice works fine but the discussion thread goes on waaaaayyyy
too long. :-)

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:0JKwg.8742$1Z5.1526
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

My other question, closely related, is what you think about pulling
the working stuff out of one of these and installing it in the icebox.
Since I would have to break some lines somewhere, recharging would be
an issue.

--

If you're going to go to that much trouble, start with new fridge parts,
not junk from a thrift shop.

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in news:0fLwg.82500$ZW3.43279
@dukeread04:

You can still get R12 but it cost an arm and a leg.

I had asked some cruiser friends to check on R-12 while cruising the
islands offshore. He brought me back 4 cases he had bought, Twenty Four
16-ounce cans in each, in Aruba. It was 68 US cents per can.

Looking at the can, I see it was MADE IN TENNESEE LAST YEAR!

They're still making R-12....but who would buy R-134a for $8 a 12oz can if
it was available for less than a dollar a pound?

Noone.....

America banned the sale of R-12 several years ago in a scam, as usual. The
hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica increased in size every year since.
If it were about the planet, we'd ban FLYING. It's not.

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

Larry,
As I heard it, R-12 was banned because DOW Chemical's patent had run out and
they would have had competition. New product R-134a, new patent, no
competition!
Dirty enough to be true.
MMC
"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in news:0fLwg.82500$ZW3.43279
@dukeread04:

You can still get R12 but it cost an arm and a leg.

I had asked some cruiser friends to check on R-12 while cruising the
islands offshore. He brought me back 4 cases he had bought, Twenty Four
16-ounce cans in each, in Aruba. It was 68 US cents per can.

Looking at the can, I see it was MADE IN TENNESEE LAST YEAR!

They're still making R-12....but who would buy R-134a for $8 a 12oz can if
it was available for less than a dollar a pound?

Noone.....

America banned the sale of R-12 several years ago in a scam, as usual.
The
hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica increased in size every year
since.
If it were about the planet, we'd ban FLYING. It's not.

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

"MMC" wrote in message
...
Larry,
As I heard it, R-12 was banned because DOW Chemical's patent had run out
and
they would have had competition. New product R-134a, new patent, no
competition!
Dirty enough to be true.
MMC

You been watching to much Fox News. ;-) CFC-12 was invented in 1928 and
the patent is long expired. At least 14 companies around the world have
been producing CFC12 since 1949. DuPont just owns the trade name "Freon".

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

"MMC" wrote in
:

Larry,
As I heard it, R-12 was banned because DOW Chemical's patent had run
out and they would have had competition. New product R-134a, new
patent, no competition!
Dirty enough to be true.
MMC


I'd buy that story. It sounds like something the average American
corporate bureaucracy could make happen....

How else could they get $8 for 12oz of 134a?

Remember "Rovac" back in 1967? Double-sided rotary compressor invented
by some physics professor, powered off a car engine in a big Plymouth
Fury sedan. It sucked in air from inside the car, in large volume about
as much as your car A/C does now, compressed it to 250 psi and pushed it
through a standard air conditioner condensor where the fan outside blew
the heat out of it. On the outlet side of the heat radiator, the cooled
air was released into the OTHER side of the rotary compressor vanes where
250 PSI dropped to atmospheric pressure, recovering a lot of the power it
took to do the compressing. The outlet air was frozen solid to -4C,
along with some snow caused by the water in the air freezing into rime
ice. Anaconda Corp came up with a heat exchanger on the cabin side that
filtered out the ice from the air and used the melting constant supply of
ice to cool the incoming air to the compressor making it even more
efficient. The exchanger was also a muffler to make it near totally
quiet so you couldn't hear the compressor pulses. The water vapor was
also re-deposited into the cabin air so the actual humidity in the car
was identical to what we started with, not dried out to desert humidity
like a regular airconditioning plant does. This keeping humidity
constant made Rovac VERY interesting to the meat cooling industry as it
wouldn't dry out the cooled meat like refridgerant systems do.

There was a Popular Mechanics or Popular Science piece done on it before
the freon magnates and their government hacks could squash it. It showed
5 Chrysler engineers in a big Plymouth Fury with a Rovac AC riding around
in the Mohave Desert where the OAT was 104F. With the Rovac wide open
and 5 sweaty engineers as a load, Rovac had the interior temperature of
the Plymouth down to 57F in the Mohave Desert! Overkill....(c;

Rovac used NO FREON, was very simple and HAD TO BE BURIED DEEP as it was
just TOO EASY! I'm sure DuPont had a LOT to do with its demise and
subsequent patent burial.....never to be heard from again.

Using no toxic gasses, we couldn't allow it to be built.....

Imagine it hooked to a little keel cooler in your engine
compartment.....hmmm....

Small simple refrigerator ideas wanted
 

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:58:04 -0400, Larry wrote:

///
Remember "Rovac" back in 1967? Double-sided rotary compressor invented
by some physics professor, powered off a car engine in a big Plymouth
Fury sedan. It sucked in air from inside the car, in large volume about
as much as your car A/C does now, compressed it to 250 psi and pushed it
through a standard air conditioner condensor where the fan outside blew
the heat out of it. On the outlet side of the heat radiator, the cooled
air was released into the OTHER side of the rotary compressor vanes where
250 PSI dropped to atmospheric pressure, recovering a lot of the power it
took to do the compressing. The outlet air was frozen solid to -4C,
along with some snow caused by the water in the air freezing into rime
ice. Anaconda Corp came up with a heat exchanger on the cabin side that
filtered out the ice from the air and used the melting constant supply of
ice to cool the incoming air to the compressor making it even more
efficient. The exchanger was also a muffler to make it near totally
quiet so you couldn't hear the compressor pulses. The water vapor was
also re-deposited into the cabin air so the actual humidity in the car
was identical to what we started with, not dried out to desert humidity
like a regular airconditioning plant does. This keeping humidity
constant made Rovac VERY interesting to the meat cooling industry as it
wouldn't dry out the cooled meat like refridgerant systems do.

There was a Popular Mechanics or Popular Science piece done on it before
the freon magnates and their government hacks could squash it. It showed
5 Chrysler engineers in a big Plymouth Fury with a Rovac AC riding around
in the Mohave Desert where the OAT was 104F. With the Rovac wide open
and 5 sweaty engineers as a load, Rovac had the interior temperature of
the Plymouth down to 57F in the Mohave Desert! Overkill....(c;

Rovac used NO FREON, was very simple and HAD TO BE BURIED DEEP as it was
just TOO EASY! I'm sure DuPont had a LOT to do with its demise and
subsequent patent burial.....never to be heard from again.

Using no toxic gasses, we couldn't allow it to be built.....

Imagine it hooked to a little keel cooler in your engine
compartment.....hmmm....


Air cycle cooling is used in many aircraft. Light, but energy-hungry -
can be noisy too.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK