Sanitation Hose
 

I am installing a new head and am going to use fresh water for flushing
getting away from sal****er. I would like to know if the fresh water
will disolve the build-up inside the hose or do I need to replace the
whole sanitation line. It's about a 20 to 25 foot run to the holding
tank.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Don

Sanitation Hose
 

Don wrote:
I am installing a new head and am going to use fresh water for flushing
getting away from sal****er.

You aren't gonna connect a toilet designed to use sea water to your
fresh water system, are you? That can't be done without risk of
contaminating the potable water supply with e-coli, damage to the
toilet, or both...and every toilet mfr specifically warns against it.

ONLY toilets designed to use pressurized flush water can safely be
connected to the fresh water system.


I would like to know if the fresh water
will disolve the build-up inside the hose...

Nope...

... or do I need to replace the
whole sanitation line.

You don't have to do that either. A 12% solution of muriatic acid in
water will dissolve it. Or, if you'd rather not use muriatic acid,
repeated doses of white vinegar will do the trick.

It's about a 20 to 25 foot run to the holding
tank.

Unless it's all downhill, that's at least 4 x further than all but a few
high end electric toilets can move bowl contents...you'll always have
waste sitting in the line, and that will result in stinky hoses. The
optimal distance from the toilet to a tank is 6' or less...10' is the
absolute max.

So I think you may need a bit more help than you asked for. If you'd
like to email me, I'll be glad to help you spec out a system that won't
create more problems than it solves: phnlr (hyphen)misc(at) yahoo(dot)com.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Peggie Hall wrote:
It's about a 20 to 25 foot run to the holding
tank.

Unless it's all downhill, that's at least 4 x further than all but a few
high end electric toilets can move bowl contents...you'll always have
waste sitting in the line, and that will result in stinky hoses. The
optimal distance from the toilet to a tank is 6' or less...10' is the
absolute max.


This touches on a question I had for you. I've added the manual pump
in series with the electric on my Lavac. The performance has been
getting weaker over the years, and the manual pump is need as a
frequent backup. In tracing all of the hoses I now understand why its
always been sluggish. The water intake line is about 12 feet long,
the head output to the pump should be two feet, but they circled it
around for at least ten, and the holding tank is about 12 or 15 feet
from the pump. Thus the total run is maybe 35 feet, an awful lot for
even the Lavac pump.

Some of this will be dealt with in the Fall (if we last that long!)
but I wonder about one item: The waste line from the pump goes up to 5
feet over the sole, then down under the sole, under the shower, though
the engine compartment and then rises up to go into the holding tank
which is built into the stern steps. This means there's a low section
about 6 feet long, maybe 3 feet lower than the high point near the
tank. Is this very bad, or just sub-optimal? Since I can't shorten
this, should I keep it high, perhaps using some pvc as a conduit to
run it through the shower? And how much do I have to clean the hose
that might not ever come out of the bilge?

TIA, Jeff

Sanitation Hose
 

If I had a, let's say, lavac toilet, and a dedicated freshwater tank
for flushing - with a manual pump, why wouldn't it work? Since the
freshwater tank would not be pressurized, wouldn't that solve the
problem? Or are there other issues in regards to salinity that cannot
be worked around?

I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel, just curious. The idea of being
able to use the highly praised Lavac with freshwater and a manual pump
sounds like it might be a good combo.

My boat has more fresh water than I can ever use.






On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:56:18 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Don wrote:
I am installing a new head and am going to use fresh water for flushing
getting away from sal****er.

You aren't gonna connect a toilet designed to use sea water to your
fresh water system, are you? That can't be done without risk of
contaminating the potable water supply with e-coli, damage to the
toilet, or both...and every toilet mfr specifically warns against it.

ONLY toilets designed to use pressurized flush water can safely be
connected to the fresh water system.


I would like to know if the fresh water
will disolve the build-up inside the hose...

Nope...

... or do I need to replace the
whole sanitation line.

You don't have to do that either. A 12% solution of muriatic acid in
water will dissolve it. Or, if you'd rather not use muriatic acid,
repeated doses of white vinegar will do the trick.

It's about a 20 to 25 foot run to the holding
tank.

Unless it's all downhill, that's at least 4 x further than all but a few
high end electric toilets can move bowl contents...you'll always have
waste sitting in the line, and that will result in stinky hoses. The
optimal distance from the toilet to a tank is 6' or less...10' is the
absolute max.

So I think you may need a bit more help than you asked for. If you'd
like to email me, I'll be glad to help you spec out a system that won't
create more problems than it solves: phnlr (hyphen)misc(at) yahoo(dot)com.

Sanitation Hose
 

Ruskie wrote:
If I had a, let's say, lavac toilet, and a dedicated freshwater tank
for flushing - with a manual pump, why wouldn't it work?

As long as it's connected to a dedicated tank that isn't linked in any
way to your fresh water system, it WILL work.

When it comes to connecting toilets to the onboard fresh water

Since the
freshwater tank would not be pressurized, wouldn't that solve the
problem? Or are there other issues in regards to salinity that cannot
be worked around?

As long as the supply source is completely separate from the fresh water
supply, it doesn't matter what kind of toilet is connected to it...the
only issue is the danger of polluting the potable water supply. \

And don't think you're out of the woods if you don't drink the onboard
water...you wash your hands in it...then pick up a sandwich. You rinse
out a glass, then pour your bottled water into that glass--which is now
about as clean as your toilet bowl.


I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel, just curious. The idea of being
able to use the highly praised Lavac with freshwater and a manual pump
sounds like it might be a good combo.

The Lavac is a raw watr toilet...if you want to flush with with fresh
water, you'll have to provide a source for the flush water than isn't
connected in any way to your fresh water plumbing.

My boat has more fresh water than I can ever use.

Then take longer showers. :)

Email me...we'll work out something you'll be happy with.


(Fwiw to those who don't know I've been here since God was an
adolescent, the offer to contact me via email was NOT an attempt to
solicit business. There is NO charge for my help, nor do I have anythin
to sell...and my advice is free.

However, both my publisher and I would appreciate it if you check out
the link in my signature.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Jeff wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:
This touches on a question I had for you. I've added the manual pump in
series with the electric on my Lavac.

I wouldn't recommend that. I wouldn't recommend the electric Lavac either.

The performance has been getting
weaker over the years, and the manual pump is need as a frequent
backup. In tracing all of the hoses I now understand why its always
been sluggish. The water intake line is about 12 feet long, the head
output to the pump should be two feet, but they circled it around for at
least ten, and the holding tank is about 12 or 15 feet from the pump.
Thus the total run is maybe 35 feet, an awful lot for even the Lavac pump.

Sheesh! O WONDER you have problems! I don't suppose it ever occurred to
anyone so far to read the bloomin' installation instructions?

Some of this will be dealt with in the Fall (if we last that long!) but
I wonder about one item: The waste line from the pump goes up to 5 feet
over the sole, then down under the sole, under the shower, though the
engine compartment and then rises up to go into the holding tank which
is built into the stern steps. This means there's a low section about 6
feet long, maybe 3 feet lower than the high point near the tank. Is
this very bad, or just sub-optimal? Since I can't shorten this, should
I keep it high, perhaps using some pvc as a conduit to run it through
the shower? And how much do I have to clean the hose that might not
ever come out of the bilge?

Who dreamed up THAT nightmare????? The right solution: relocate the
tank! If you don't think that's possible, you're wrong...email me.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Don wrote:
I am installing a new head and am going to use fresh water for flushing
getting away from sal****er. I would like to know if the fresh water
will dissolve the build-up inside the hose or do I need to replace the
whole sanitation line. It's about a 20 to 25 foot run to the holding
tank.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Don

Thanks for the help, I thought I would have to change the hose,
Defender has some for 3.99 a foot.

I have a new Raritan "Atlantes Freedom" with a freshwater valve and
siphon break so I am not worried about contamination to the freshwater
supply. If I must, I guess I can add an extra pump to pump the crap up
hill. As for the Acid, that would void the warranty and probably damage
the unit.

Peggy, I will write you off list.

Again, Thanks

Don

Sanitation Hose
 

Don wrote:

I have a new Raritan "Atlantes Freedom" with a freshwater valve and
siphon break so I am not worried about contamination to the freshwater
supply. If I must, I guess I can add an extra pump to pump the crap up
hill.

You shouldn't need it.

As for the Acid, that would void the warranty and probably damage
the unit.

No, it wouldn't. In fact, a 12% solution of muratic acid in water--which
is flushed through the toilet (any toilet, including theirs)--is what
Raritan specifies in their instructions to remove sea water mineral
buildup on the electrode pack in a Lectra/San

Peggy, I will write you off list.




--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Peggie,
Do you recommend white vineger for flushing fresh water systems?
MMC
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
. com...
Don wrote:
I am installing a new head and am going to use fresh water for flushing
getting away from sal****er.

You aren't gonna connect a toilet designed to use sea water to your
fresh water system, are you? That can't be done without risk of
contaminating the potable water supply with e-coli, damage to the
toilet, or both...and every toilet mfr specifically warns against it.

ONLY toilets designed to use pressurized flush water can safely be
connected to the fresh water system.


I would like to know if the fresh water
will disolve the build-up inside the hose...

Nope...

... or do I need to replace the
whole sanitation line.

You don't have to do that either. A 12% solution of muriatic acid in
water will dissolve it. Or, if you'd rather not use muriatic acid,
repeated doses of white vinegar will do the trick.

It's about a 20 to 25 foot run to the holding
tank.

Unless it's all downhill, that's at least 4 x further than all but a few
high end electric toilets can move bowl contents...you'll always have
waste sitting in the line, and that will result in stinky hoses. The
optimal distance from the toilet to a tank is 6' or less...10' is the
absolute max.

So I think you may need a bit more help than you asked for. If you'd
like to email me, I'll be glad to help you spec out a system that won't
create more problems than it solves: phnlr (hyphen)misc(at) yahoo(dot)com.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

I can attest to this. Peggie has helped a lot of people with head issues
thru the years. Very responsive and doesn't smack us when we ask dumb
questions.

(Fwiw to those who don't know I've been here since God was an
adolescent, the offer to contact me via email was NOT an attempt to
solicit business. There is NO charge for my help, nor do I have anythin
to sell...and my advice is free.

However, both my publisher and I would appreciate it if you check out
the link in my signature.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

MMC wrote:
Peggie,
Do you recommend white vineger for flushing fresh water systems?

I'm not sure whether you mean toilets that use fresh water, or the
potable water system...so I'll address both.

White vinegar is both an odor eliminator and a mineral dissolver...so
while it's not really needed in toilets that use fresh water, it
certainly can't hurt the hoses to flush a cupful through 'em before the
boat is to sit. Just don't leave it sitting in the bowl, and be sure to
flush it all out of the pump...'cuz while vinegar won't do anything to
soft rubber just passing through, soft rubber left to soak in vinegar
will swell and distort.

Potable water systems: After recommissioning the system each spring, a
solution of 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water left in the tank for
several days--with the pump left on to also keep the solution in the
plumbing--will remove any remaining chlorine or antifreeze taste/smell
in the system. Drain through every faucet, then fill the tank 1/4-1/2
full with clean water and flush the vinegar solution out of the lines.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Peggie Hall wrote:

MMC wrote:

Peggie,
Do you recommend white vineger for flushing fresh water systems?


I'm not sure whether you mean toilets that use fresh water, or the
potable water system...so I'll address both.

White vinegar is both an odor eliminator and a mineral dissolver...so
while it's not really needed in toilets that use fresh water, it
certainly can't hurt the hoses to flush a cupful through 'em before the
boat is to sit. Just don't leave it sitting in the bowl, and be sure to
flush it all out of the pump...'cuz while vinegar won't do anything to
soft rubber just passing through, soft rubber left to soak in vinegar
will swell and distort.

Potable water systems: After recommissioning the system each spring, a
solution of 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water left in the tank for
several days--with the pump left on to also keep the solution in the
plumbing--will remove any remaining chlorine or antifreeze taste/smell
in the system. Drain through every faucet, then fill the tank 1/4-1/2
full with clean water and flush the vinegar solution out of the lines.

Wow, that means that I need to buy 38 quarts of vinegar for my 140 gal
and 50 gal that I am currently fixing. Didn't realize I would need so much.
krj

Sanitation Hose
 

krj wrote:
Potable water systems: After recommissioning the system each spring, a
solution of 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water left in the tank for
several days--with the pump left on to also keep the solution in the
plumbing--will remove any remaining chlorine or antifreeze taste/smell
in the system. Drain through every faucet, then fill the tank 1/4-1/2
full with clean water and flush the vinegar solution out of the lines.

Wow, that means that I need to buy 38 quarts of vinegar for my 140 gal
and 50 gal that I am currently fixing. Didn't realize I would need so much.

You didn't read what I wrote carefully enough...'cuz you don't need
anywhere near that much. You only need a couple of gallons for the 140
gal tank and 1 quart at most for the 50 gal tank.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Peggie Hall wrote:

krj wrote:

Potable water systems: After recommissioning the system each spring,
a solution of 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water left in the tank
for several days--with the pump left on to also keep the solution in
the plumbing--will remove any remaining chlorine or antifreeze
taste/smell in the system. Drain through every faucet, then fill the
tank 1/4-1/2 full with clean water and flush the vinegar solution out
of the lines.

Wow, that means that I need to buy 38 quarts of vinegar for my 140 gal
and 50 gal that I am currently fixing. Didn't realize I would need so
much.


You didn't read what I wrote carefully enough...'cuz you don't need
anywhere near that much. You only need a couple of gallons for the 140
gal tank and 1 quart at most for the 50 gal tank.


Guess I read it wrong. I figured 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water
was 140/5= 28 quarts.
krj

Sanitation Hose
 

This business about not connecting FW systems to sanitary plumbing
reminds me of a USPH required and approved arrangment for FW flushing
systems.

It's called an "Air Gap" and is basically just a funnel with a pipe
outlet a few inches above it. The funnel goes to the tank for fresh
flush water. The valve can either be manual or perhaps controlled by a
float in the flush water tank. If something goes wrong with the
sanitary system, the water just backs up and overflows the funnel with
no way to get into the potable water.

--

Roger Long

Sanitation Hose
 

Larry wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote in news:N7Svg.653$uH6.463
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:


If something goes wrong with the
sanitary system, the water just backs up and overflows the funnel with
no way to get into the potable water.



Yecch....geez. I just ate Chinese food!.....



You're as bad as my plumbers. Just finished my bath re-model and one of
the young plumbers was snaking a slow moving tub/shower drain. I could
tell he didn't want to do it, as they do brand new installations 95% of
the time...nice clean work.
As he pulled the snake back with that greasy gray hairy mess, he put his
nose into his sleeve. I thought he was going to hurl.
It didn't smell the best... but after all...what would you expect.
Young guys...... they don't want to get their hands dirty anymore.

Sanitation Hose
 

krj wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:

krj wrote:


I figured 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water
was 140/5= 28 quarts.


Read it again (the third time it HAS to sink in)...I didn't say FILL the
tank...I said, "fill the tank 1/4-1/2 full ..."

The solution is 1 quart vinegar to 5 gal WATER, NOT 1 quart vinegar to
the total amount the tank can hold.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Roger Long wrote:
This business about not connecting FW systems to sanitary plumbing
reminds me of a USPH required and approved arrangment for FW flushing
systems.

What is USPH???

It's called an "Air Gap" and is basically just a funnel with a pipe
outlet a few inches above it. The funnel goes to the tank for fresh
flush water. The valve can either be manual or perhaps controlled by a
float in the flush water tank. If something goes wrong with the
sanitary system, the water just backs up and overflows the funnel with
no way to get into the potable water.

???? I can't see how that would work in any marine sanition system.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

"Peggie Hall" wrote

???? I can't see how that would work in any marine sanitation
system.

Back when I was a young pup in a design office drawing piping
schematics for passenger vessels I used to put these in on every
sanitary piping plan because they were on the plans they gave me as a
"go-by". These were large vessels by yacht standards, generally with
ordinary jet flush toilets like you would find in an office building.

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work in a fresh water flushing
system. Even if you had a large flushing tank, you might want to be
able to replenish it from the main tank; especially if you were
running an RO system into it.

Here's how it would look:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Flush.jpg

On the large vessels with engineers monitoring everything, the float
switch was just a manual valve and the flush tank large enough for
about a day's use.

My sink drain connection to the head intake is just a variation of
this. If I simply added a 2 -3 gallon tank into the line, which I
have some minimally useful space to do, I could easily set the system
up for several unattended FW flushes. This is something I might want
to do if I planned to visit some place like St. Johns, Newfoundland
where the water coming into the head might well be dirtier than the
water flushing out of it:)

--

Roger Long

Sanitation Hose
 

Potable. Thanks Peggie.
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
. com...
MMC wrote:
Peggie,
Do you recommend white vineger for flushing fresh water systems?

I'm not sure whether you mean toilets that use fresh water, or the
potable water system...so I'll address both.

White vinegar is both an odor eliminator and a mineral dissolver...so
while it's not really needed in toilets that use fresh water, it
certainly can't hurt the hoses to flush a cupful through 'em before the
boat is to sit. Just don't leave it sitting in the bowl, and be sure to
flush it all out of the pump...'cuz while vinegar won't do anything to
soft rubber just passing through, soft rubber left to soak in vinegar
will swell and distort.

Potable water systems: After recommissioning the system each spring, a
solution of 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water left in the tank for
several days--with the pump left on to also keep the solution in the
plumbing--will remove any remaining chlorine or antifreeze taste/smell
in the system. Drain through every faucet, then fill the tank 1/4-1/2
full with clean water and flush the vinegar solution out of the lines.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

Peggie Hall wrote:

krj wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:

krj wrote:

I figured 1 quart white vinegar to 5 gal. water
was 140/5= 28 quarts.

Read it again (the third time it HAS to sink in)...I didn't say FILL the
tank...I said, "fill the tank 1/4-1/2 full ..."

The solution is 1 quart vinegar to 5 gal WATER, NOT 1 quart vinegar to
the total amount the tank can hold.

So you fill the tank 1/4 full of this solution? or do you just use 5
gal of water for any size tank?

If we filled our tanks 1/4 full, that would be 50 gallons, so it would
be 10 quarts of vinegar (??)

When we used to use fresh water flush it wasn't connected to the
toilet at all - we just used the shower head to flush the toilet with.

Sanitation Hose
 

So you fill the tank 1/4 full of this solution? or do you just use 5
gal of water for any size tank?

Put enough in the tank to get it into all the plumbing. If only 5 gal.
is enough to do that, then 5 gal. is all you need.

When we used to use fresh water flush it wasn't connected to the
toilet at all - we just used the shower head to flush the toilet with.

It has nothing to do with toilet flush water, Rosie...unless you care
whether the toilet flush water smells/tastes like chlorine or antifreeze.

However, using the shower head to put water in the bowl is not good for
the toilet pump...'cuz what's in the bowl is only passed through the
bottom part of the pump, leaving the rubber parts in the upper part of
the pump dry, which deteriorates 'em. If you have the typical electric
macerating pump, closing the seacock and only putting water into the
bowl causes the intake impeller to spin dry, which "fries" it with the
first flush and then will destroy the intake pump housing. If you've
done that, if you ever open the intake seacock again, water will flood
the bowl--overflowing it, if it's below the waterline--because there's
no longer anything left of the impeller to block it.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Sanitation Hose
 

The way the fresh water flush on my boat works is via the head sink.
The drain hose on the sink has a diverter valve, and in one position it
goes out via an above water thruhull, in the other, it drains into the
line that feeds the head pump. The line leading down to the raw water
line for the head is also vented, so that it can't siphon back out to
the sink.

Works really well, but I do have to remember to fill the fresh water
tank, which is fairly small on my boat, before a longer trip.

SD

On 2006-07-20 16:58:21 -0400, "Roger Long" said:

This business about not connecting FW systems to sanitary plumbing
reminds me of a USPH required and approved arrangment for FW flushing
systems.

It's called an "Air Gap" and is basically just a funnel with a pipe
outlet a few inches above it. The funnel goes to the tank for fresh
flush water. The valve can either be manual or perhaps controlled by a
float in the flush water tank. If something goes wrong with the
sanitary system, the water just backs up and overflows the funnel with
no way to get into the potable water.