rogue waves
 

I've seen this topic come up here from time to time. The link below is
an interesting report in today's New York Times about some new research
that shows rogue waves over 85 feet tall are, in fact, much more common
than previously believed. There are a couple amazing photos!

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/11/sc...wave.html?8dpc

Regards
Jason


Rogue Giants at Sea

"...By one definition, the titans of the sea rise to heights of at least
25 meters, or 82 feet, about the size of an eight-story building.
Scientists have calculated their theoretical maximum at 198 feet —
higher than the Statue of Liberty or the Capitol rotunda in Washington.
So far, however, they have documented nothing that big. Large rogues
seem to average around 100 feet."

By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: July 11, 2006

rogue waves
 

Jason writes:

"...By one definition, the titans of the sea rise to heights of at least
25 meters, or 82 feet, about the size of an eight-story building.

Now we just need Kristofferson to sing a song about them.

rogue waves
 

Don't you mean Gordon Lightfoot?

--

Roger Long



"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Jason writes:

"...By one definition, the titans of the sea rise to heights of at
least
25 meters, or 82 feet, about the size of an eight-story building.

Now we just need Kristofferson to sing a song about them.

rogue waves
 

Roger Long writes:

Don't you mean Gordon Lightfoot?

Right.

rogue waves
 

Jason wrote:
I've seen this topic come up here from time to time.

And as I said last time......... there are no such things as "...rogue
or sneaker..." waves.

Just some really big ones that should be expected.

rogue waves
 

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.

With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early

The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconson
As the big freighters go it was bigger than most
With a crew and the Captain well seasoned.

Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ships bell rang
Could it be the North Wind they'd been feeling.

The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the Captain did, too,
T'was the witch of November come stealing.

The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashing
When afternoon came it was freezing rain
In the face of a hurricane West Wind

When supper time came the old cook came on deck
Saying fellows it's too rough to feed ya
At 7PM a main hatchway caved in
He said fellas it's been good to know ya.

The Captain wired in he had water coming in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when his lights went out of sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd fifteen more miles behind her.

They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.

Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.

And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered.

In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior, they say, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.


© 1976 Moose Music, Inc.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Don't you mean Gordon Lightfoot?

--

Roger Long



"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Jason writes:

"...By one definition, the titans of the sea rise to heights of at least
25 meters, or 82 feet, about the size of an eight-story building.

Now we just need Kristofferson to sing a song about them.

rogue waves
 

In article .com,
"Bob" wrote:

Jason wrote:
I've seen this topic come up here from time to time.

And as I said last time......... there are no such things as "...rogue
or sneaker..." waves.

Just some really big ones that should be expected.


Bull****...... Don't try telling that to the guys that fish
King Crab in the Bering Sea, in December...... There isn't one
of them, that hasn't seen a Rogue Wave...come up and slam their
vessel that wasn't at least twice what the sea was doing at the
time......

Me been there, seen that, and lived to tell the tale.......

rogue waves
 

Me wrote:

Bull****...... Don't try telling that to the guys that fish
King Crab in the Bering Sea, in December...... There isn't one
of them, that hasn't seen a Rogue Wave...come up and slam their
vessel that wasn't at least twice what the sea was doing at the
time......

Me been there, seen that, and lived to tell the tale.......

Lets see..... my first day on the Bering was 1983, December 26. Spent
some time up around the horse shoe, some around the mushroom, and even
hit the donut hole a year later. Got to puke my guts out side the Elbo
Room a time or two. Hung with some to the Magone guys on the beach,
good friend from high school lived in the only dome in Dutch, called in
orders of just about anything and had "Any Cab" deliver it, and
generally had a fun time.

I've left foot prints on the celling and still say, their aint no such
thing as a rogue wave.
Still Bobbing
Oh, I almost forgot.............. GFY

rogue waves
 

On 13 Jul 2006 18:44:52 -0700, "Bob" wrote:

I've left foot prints on the celling and still say, their aint no such
thing as a rogue wave.

OK, so what do you call a wave that is much bigger than the others
around it for some period of time? Statistical anomaly ?

rogue waves
 

Wayne.B wrote:
OK, so what do you call a wave that is much bigger than the others
around it for some period of time? Statistical anomaly ?

Hi Wayne:

Thank you for the question. Sure if you're the kind that also uses
mean, mode, median, range, SD etc in a conversation. For me they are
just really big waves that pop up from time to time and most times are
rather predictable. Yes I did say predictable.

As I mentioned last time, with many not agreeing and many others
posting monster wave pic as proof of rogue and sneaker waves, for me it
is a way to view my relationship with the oceans.

I believe that there is nothing inherently sneaky nor roguish about the
seas. The worlds oceans are simply doing what they always do. For me to
live and enjoy the oceans I have placed myself, not as some macho able
to beat and over come my nautical adversary, rather as someone there to
enjoy all the amazing things that occur out there. For me to say I got
hit by a rogue wave that came from nowhere and smite my vessel is to
say that I am also just a hapless stooge who has no responsibility for
my own safety. A rather childish approach if you go by that
Transitional Analysis stuff from the early 70s.

So I say, sorry, no such thing as a rogue wave. Just lots of really
interesting events that are possible at sea, that we need to be
prepared to maneuver, and hopefully able to predict more accurately.

Call it all liberal BS semantics if you want. However, the language a
person uses serves as a great window to see what they think. On the
other hand, language also effects the way people think and behave
(Worf-Sapier). So change the language and we might change how people
think about the sea. Personally I do not want to be helpless and
victimized by a sneaker. I would much rather say it the way it
was.......... I got caught with my pants down because I was not paying
enough attention to what was going on.

This will really start the flamers. Why do teen age boys get in so many
car crashes (humm, I wonder why its not called an accident anymore?)
and pay such high auto insurance premiums? I say poor judgment. I also
say why do some people keep sinking their boats ? I say poor judgment.

Why do you think I'm called Bob?

PS
For everyone. Please list the conditions that contribute to the
creation and propagation of "sneaker waves": If you can not list
three now find out fast!

rogue waves
 

Good stuff Thomas.
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
news:iDhtg.8050$aL2.7128@trndny07...
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.

With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early

The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconson
As the big freighters go it was bigger than most
With a crew and the Captain well seasoned.

Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ships bell rang
Could it be the North Wind they'd been feeling.

The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the Captain did, too,
T'was the witch of November come stealing.

The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashing
When afternoon came it was freezing rain
In the face of a hurricane West Wind

When supper time came the old cook came on deck
Saying fellows it's too rough to feed ya
At 7PM a main hatchway caved in
He said fellas it's been good to know ya.

The Captain wired in he had water coming in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when his lights went out of sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd fifteen more miles behind her.

They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.

Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.

And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered.

In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior, they say, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.


© 1976 Moose Music, Inc.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Don't you mean Gordon Lightfoot?

--

Roger Long



"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Jason writes:

"...By one definition, the titans of the sea rise to heights of at
least
25 meters, or 82 feet, about the size of an eight-story building.

Now we just need Kristofferson to sing a song about them.

rogue waves
 

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:21:09 -0700, Bob wrote:


Wayne.B wrote:
OK, so what do you call a wave that is much bigger than the others
around it for some period of time? Statistical anomaly ?

Hi Wayne:

Thank you for the question. Sure if you're the kind that also uses mean,
mode, median, range, SD etc in a conversation. For me they are just really
big waves that pop up from time to time and most times are rather
predictable. Yes I did say predictable.

As I mentioned last time, with many not agreeing and many others posting
monster wave pic as proof of rogue and sneaker waves, for me it is a way
to view my relationship with the oceans.

I believe that there is nothing inherently sneaky nor roguish about the
seas. The worlds oceans are simply doing what they always do. For me to
live and enjoy the oceans I have placed myself, not as some macho able to
beat and over come my nautical adversary, rather as someone there to enjoy
all the amazing things that occur out there. For me to say I got hit by a
rogue wave that came from nowhere and smite my vessel is to say that I am
also just a hapless stooge who has no responsibility for my own safety. A
rather childish approach if you go by that Transitional Analysis stuff
from the early 70s.

So I say, sorry, no such thing as a rogue wave. Just lots of really
interesting events that are possible at sea, that we need to be prepared
to maneuver, and hopefully able to predict more accurately.

Call it all liberal BS semantics if you want. However, the language a
person uses serves as a great window to see what they think. On the other
hand, language also effects the way people think and behave (Worf-Sapier).
So change the language and we might change how people think about the sea.
Personally I do not want to be helpless and victimized by a sneaker. I
would much rather say it the way it was.......... I got caught with my
pants down because I was not paying enough attention to what was going on.

This will really start the flamers. Why do teen age boys get in so many
car crashes (humm, I wonder why its not called an accident anymore?) and
pay such high auto insurance premiums? I say poor judgment. I also say
why do some people keep sinking their boats ? I say poor judgment.

Why do you think I'm called Bob?

PS
For everyone. Please list the conditions that contribute to the creation
and propagation of "sneaker waves": If you can not list three now find out
fast!

I'll give you 4...

1 - A moderate sea

2 - a cross angled swell

3 - the principle of resonance

4 - some really bad luck!

Diana

rogue waves
 

In article om,
"Bob" wrote:

Me wrote:

Bull****...... Don't try telling that to the guys that fish
King Crab in the Bering Sea, in December...... There isn't one
of them, that hasn't seen a Rogue Wave...come up and slam their
vessel that wasn't at least twice what the sea was doing at the
time......

Me been there, seen that, and lived to tell the tale.......

Lets see..... my first day on the Bering was 1983, December 26. Spent
some time up around the horse shoe, some around the mushroom, and even
hit the donut hole a year later. Got to puke my guts out side the Elbo
Room a time or two. Hung with some to the Magone guys on the beach,
good friend from high school lived in the only dome in Dutch, called in
orders of just about anything and had "Any Cab" deliver it, and
generally had a fun time.

I've left foot prints on the celling and still say, their aint no such
thing as a rogue wave.
Still Bobbing
Oh, I almost forgot.............. GFY


So you went to Dutch, and spent some time in the Bars..... that's
really a Big Whoop.... Now tell us all the boat you GreenHorned on,
or maybe the boat you Deckhanded on, after that, as a Fullshare Deckhand.
Lots of guys talk big in the bars, and turn out to be processors from
Unalaska, who never spent an hour, standing wheelwatch in a 90 Knot
breeze off the Port Quarter, with the B ow buried under 30 ft of Green
Water. There are guys who have fished that country in a 58Ft Limit
Seiner. Now that takes Guts..........

Me not that gutsy...... at least not any more........

rogue waves
 

Me wrote:

Me not that gutsy...... .

You keep using words like "they."

I think you've been watching too much Discovery channel.
Lets see, what would be an appropreate response here......... oh yea.
I've ****ed more salt water than you been on....so GFY.

rogue waves
 

Can't say I disagree with your basic statement any more than I agree with
it. Guess it depends on how you wish to view/use the terms "rogue" or
"sneaker" wave.
Personally, I'd consider the terms valid as many can report being hit by
waves they could neither see nor predict for the conditions, but waddahey,
that's my opinion and your welcome to yours.

otn


"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Wayne.B wrote:
OK, so what do you call a wave that is much bigger than the others
around it for some period of time? Statistical anomaly ?

Hi Wayne:

Thank you for the question. Sure if you're the kind that also uses
mean, mode, median, range, SD etc in a conversation. For me they are
just really big waves that pop up from time to time and most times are
rather predictable. Yes I did say predictable.

As I mentioned last time, with many not agreeing and many others
posting monster wave pic as proof of rogue and sneaker waves, for me it
is a way to view my relationship with the oceans.

I believe that there is nothing inherently sneaky nor roguish about the
seas. The worlds oceans are simply doing what they always do. For me to
live and enjoy the oceans I have placed myself, not as some macho able
to beat and over come my nautical adversary, rather as someone there to
enjoy all the amazing things that occur out there. For me to say I got
hit by a rogue wave that came from nowhere and smite my vessel is to
say that I am also just a hapless stooge who has no responsibility for
my own safety. A rather childish approach if you go by that
Transitional Analysis stuff from the early 70s.

So I say, sorry, no such thing as a rogue wave. Just lots of really
interesting events that are possible at sea, that we need to be
prepared to maneuver, and hopefully able to predict more accurately.

Call it all liberal BS semantics if you want. However, the language a
person uses serves as a great window to see what they think. On the
other hand, language also effects the way people think and behave
(Worf-Sapier). So change the language and we might change how people
think about the sea. Personally I do not want to be helpless and
victimized by a sneaker. I would much rather say it the way it
was.......... I got caught with my pants down because I was not paying
enough attention to what was going on.

This will really start the flamers. Why do teen age boys get in so many
car crashes (humm, I wonder why its not called an accident anymore?)
and pay such high auto insurance premiums? I say poor judgment. I also
say why do some people keep sinking their boats ? I say poor judgment.

Why do you think I'm called Bob?

PS
For everyone. Please list the conditions that contribute to the
creation and propagation of "sneaker waves": If you can not list
three now find out fast!

rogue waves
 

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:19:32 -0700, Bob wrote:


Dr. Di wrote:
I'll give you 4...

1 - A moderate sea

2 - a cross angled swell

3 - the principle of resonance

4 - some really bad luck!

Diana

Hi Doc.....
Excellent!

The three that I find most often in the PNW are 5- 100 fathom line. Deep
goes shallow and waves build 6- seamounts. Again, deep gets really
shallow very fast. Do a Google search for Cobb Sea mount. 7- As you
mentioned in #2 swells originating from storms/lows 1000s miles appart
pass each other and build huge "sneeker waves." But in my humble opinion
may not be that sneeky nor unpredictable if a person taks the time to
look at a weather fax or watch the wierd occasional roller go by from
another direction.
...Others?


So are you a real Dr?

Yes I am, but I hold a Ph.D. and not an M.D.. I'm a mathematical physicist
who primarily spend my days in weapons development.. Much of what I did
was classified, but my common nicknames are Dr. Di(e), and "boom, boom"..

I've never encountered a wave as you guys describe, but I've met those who
have.. It's easy enough to imagine as predicted by wave interference
theory..

I would think the slope of these waves may allow a small boat to continue
while a large ship might be in jeopardy.. Is this belief consistent with
your experiences?

Diana

rogue waves
 

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:51:02 GMT, "Dr. Di"
wrote:

I would think the slope of these waves may allow a small boat to continue
while a large ship might be in jeopardy.. Is this belief consistent with
your experiences?

There have been stories of ships being "bridged" between two large
waves and breaking in half. Fortunately I have no first hand
experience. :-)

rogue waves
 

In article .com,
"Bob" wrote:

Me wrote:

Me not that gutsy...... .

You keep using words like "they."

I think you've been watching too much Discovery channel.
Lets see, what would be an appropreate response here......... oh yea.
I've ****ed more salt water than you been on....so GFY.


So you got a bladder problem, what does that prove..... Your just
another High Seas Wannabe, that talks about things, they have never
experienced. Myself, I am reTIRED, emphisis on TIRED, but still
work the High Seas Fleet every night on 4125.0, to talk to my mates,
who ply the North Pacific for a living, day in and day out......

Me

rogue waves
 

Jason wrote:


Rogue Giants at Sea

"...By one definition, the titans of the sea rise to heights of at least
25 meters, or 82 feet, about the size of an eight-story building.
Scientists have calculated their theoretical maximum at 198 feet —
higher than the Statue of Liberty or the Capitol rotunda in Washington.
So far, however, they have documented nothing that big. Large rogues
seem to average around 100 feet."

If it's the NY(lying)Times I expect it blames Bush for this problem.

I've seen rogue waves, but not nearly the size many claim they can get.
Reputedly, these huge waves occur way out in the middle of the Pacific
where few if any ships go and are rare. So the chance of a ship finding
one is very slim (size of ship, size of wave, size of ocean).

I've seen rogue waves in the sense of them being more than 2x the size
of the other larger waves. In my case, as in many of these cases, it's
not really a WAVE, but a HOLE and once in the hole, it looks like you
are around huge waves.

We fell into a hole during some sustained 70 kt winds in the north
Pacific. The waves broke into the hole burying us, but the boat was
sound and we bobbed back up to the surface in what seemed a long time.

-paul

rogue waves
 

Me wrote:
Your just
another High Seas Wannabe, that talks about things, they have never
experienced. Myself, I am reTIRED, emphisis on TIRED, but still
work the High Seas Fleet every night on 4125.0, to talk to my mates,
who ply the North Pacific for a living, day in and day out......

Me

I appologize. You are right. yu are vastly better, smarter, and have
experinced so much than I.

And I suppose ya tie up 2182 as well as 4125 with your I am better than
eveyone else BS.
Its good to keep incontact with friends. Friends are hard to come by.

Boy, this has really turned intoa waste of
time..........................

rogue waves
 

26 years master mariner (foreign going) + BSc master mariner - china,
japan, malaya, indonesia, indian ocean, west africa, east coast states
and western europe. The waves nearly got me 3 times, its the greedy
shipowners that were almost successful, the hours were horrendous, now
I'm an accountant, much easier.
ken

Paul Cassel wrote:
Jason wrote:


Rogue Giants at Sea

"...By one definition, the titans of the sea rise to heights of at least
25 meters, or 82 feet, about the size of an eight-story building.
Scientists have calculated their theoretical maximum at 198 feet -
higher than the Statue of Liberty or the Capitol rotunda in Washington.
So far, however, they have documented nothing that big. Large rogues
seem to average around 100 feet."

If it's the NY(lying)Times I expect it blames Bush for this problem.

I've seen rogue waves, but not nearly the size many claim they can get.
Reputedly, these huge waves occur way out in the middle of the Pacific
where few if any ships go and are rare. So the chance of a ship finding
one is very slim (size of ship, size of wave, size of ocean).

I've seen rogue waves in the sense of them being more than 2x the size
of the other larger waves. In my case, as in many of these cases, it's
not really a WAVE, but a HOLE and once in the hole, it looks like you
are around huge waves.

We fell into a hole during some sustained 70 kt winds in the north
Pacific. The waves broke into the hole burying us, but the boat was
sound and we bobbed back up to the surface in what seemed a long time.

-paul

rogue waves
 

In article .com,
"Bob" wrote:

And I suppose ya tie up 2182 as well as 4125 with your I am better than
eveyone else BS.
Its good to keep incontact with friends. Friends are hard to come by.

Well now, 2182.0Khz is Distress, Safety, & Calling Frequency worldwide.
See CFR 47 Part 80.369 (a)
4125.0Khz on the other hand, is is designated as a Distress, Safety,
Calling & Working frequency, and can be used for all those communication
types. See CFR 47 Part 80.369 (b, & d with subnotes 1,2,3), and CFR 47
Part 80.373 (c with subnote 2)

Now I wouldn't expect a BarRoom Skipper like you, to understand the
difference, but Marineers with North Pacific Seatime, certainly would,
should, and do, know the difference. Funny how all the North Pacific
Weather Data gathering is done on 4125.0Khz for the 45 minutes prior
to the Weather Broadcasts from Cold Bay, Kodiak, and Yakatat NWS
Stations, that took over after Peggy Dyson (WBH-29) retired. There
are stiill a few of us around who can remember the time BEFORE Peggy
started transmitting North Pacific Wx to Oscar, while he was out
fishing.

Me

rogue waves
 

Me wrote:
Now I wouldn't expect a BarRoom Skipper like you, to understand the
difference, but Marineers with North Pacific Seatime, certainly would,
should, and do, know the difference. Funny how all the North Pacific
Weather Data gathering is done on 4125.0Khz for the 45 minutes prior
to the Weather Broadcasts from Cold Bay, Kodiak, and Yakatat NWS
Stations, that took over after Peggy Dyson (WBH-29) retired. There
are stiill a few of us around who can remember the time BEFORE Peggy
started transmitting North Pacific Wx to Oscar, while he was out
fishing.
Me

Hi Me:
Once again you have proven your intelligence and superiority. I only
hope that some day I am as honest and smart as you. Until then, I guess
I'll just have to do my best. So you really think that I am a
"...BarRoom Skipper...." Maybe with many more years of experience I
will be able to achieve that license.

Since you are obviously knowledgeable about North Pacific fisheries I
am sure you realize a person driving a fishing boat needs no uscg
license of any type, training, nor skill to operate most commercial
fishing vessels. I know the readers here will sleep better knowing that
you may also share the same attributes of most "...Mariners with North
Pacific Seatime (I think the term you are looking for is "sea
service").

So I do not waste any more of your valuable time I will end and say
keep that tin foil hat on straight, don't let that tar paper peel off
your home, and I hope you found enough solar panels to keep the
Discovery Channel coming in.
Bob