Hey it sounds like we got a volunteer.

I personally know of 2 deaths due to folks breathing N2. Thats pure N2.

"Keith Hughes" wrote in message
...
OK, let's look at the fallacies of both your scenarios:

Rick wrote:
Lets look at the safety of both suggestions.

1) Nitrogen liquid will boil to gas. The gas is an asphyxiate. Many
people have died from nitrogen. Air contains 21.5% O2 mostly the rest is
N2. If you breath pure N2 the first breath you pass out and the second
breath brain damage and the third death.

GROSS exaggeration. This assumes you purge *all* the lung volume with
each breath (when it's typically only about 30% or less) and that there
are no O2 reserves in circulating hemoglobin or stored myoglobin. Neither
is the case. It also assumes (at 12-15 breaths per minute) that brain
damage occurs in 10-15 seconds. Right.

Think about passing out when reaching for something in the ice chest. If
you fall in your dead; if you fall out you will probably be ok. The next
day you will be ripping out your N2 system. A closed boat can accumulate
N2 which will displace air.

N2 evaporation does not *displace* air, it dilutes the O2 concentration.
For a sleeping individual, oxygen concentration does not become dangerous
until it reaches about 10%. That means you'd need to evaporate sufficient
N2 to equal the volume inside the boat, and you'd have to do it without
ventilation. Not very likely. My boat doesn't hold 30 PSIA, does yours?

Maybe get you in your sleep or when you go down for a cold one.

2) CO2 is heaver then air and would accumulate in the low parts of the
boat. Same issue as with N2 but it would at least give you some warning
signs.

It gives exactly the same warning signs as N2. No more, no less. You'd
require the same volume of subliming CO2 as evaporating N2 to cause O2
deprivation issues.

Bottom line, you must have ventilation in any sleeping environment. You
exhale CO2, you'll recall, so you'll die in a sealed box or without
subliming CO2 or evaporating N2. That's just common sense.

Whats wrong with a little water from melting ice. You are on a boat
right???

I don't use CO2 in my boat, but I've been using it for years in my
Vanagons' Dometic NH3 "refrigerator", and it's posed no problems. I put
in about 2 lbs which lasts about 3 days. 2 lbs sublimes to about 510
liters, in a van with an interior volume of approx. 6800L. When you do
the math, that results in a total O2 dilution of 7.5%, or a final O2
concentration of 19.9% which is well above OSHA's TEEL limit of 19.5% for
a confined space entry. This again assumes that no ventilation occurred
over the 3 days.

When you do the math, it just isn't a problem when using any reasonable
amounts, and with only normal ventilation (which should *always* be
ensured under *any* use conditions).

Keith Hughes

So where did these folks find that pure N2? Sure not
in the bilge of a boat, because it mixes into the air
readily. It does not 'displace air'.
And yes, any gas mix without oxygen will kill you
if breathed from a bottle for a few minutes. That
doesn't have to do anything with fridges.


Rick wrote:
Hey it sounds like we got a volunteer.

I personally know of 2 deaths due to folks breathing N2. Thats pure N2.

As I said, I do it in my Vanagon all the time and, last I checked, I'm
not dead. Anyone who will travel, sleep, or play bingo in a sealed
container is just a contaminant in the gene pool.

Rick wrote:
Hey it sounds like we got a volunteer.

I personally know of 2 deaths due to folks breathing N2. Thats pure N2.

And what, pray tell, were these geniuses doing breathing pure N2? I
personally know of 4 individuals who died breathing N2O. They
were...uhm...what was that word? Stupid. Pressurized gas, sealed
environment, stupid. You'll note that in none of the scenarios
presented was anyone exposed to any prolonged exposure to "pure N2". Do
the math, it's not rocket science.

Please, feel free to demonstrate how any reasonable amount of CO2 or N2
can sublime or evaporate into an average size boat, **in the typical
amount of time required**, to result in a dangerous environment. Note
we are *not* talking about something like CO, which preferentially binds
with hemoglobin relative to O2, and thus presents a very real hazard.

Keith Hughes