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Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
I want to install a fixed mooring this summer and see that for example
mushroom anchors are expensive. The environment is... Atlantic salt water, in a fairly well protected cove, with 6' tides, in about 10-15' of water, virtually no traffic and a spit serving as immediate breakwater. Alternative suggestions to a mushroom would be appreciated. Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Courtney Thomas wrote:
I want to install a fixed mooring this summer and see that for example mushroom anchors are expensive. The environment is... Atlantic salt water, in a fairly well protected cove, with 6' tides, in about 10-15' of water, virtually no traffic and a spit serving as immediate breakwater. Alternative suggestions to a mushroom would be appreciated. Courtney A Ford T-bird? Or better still, 2. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
How big a boat?
An engine from a T-bird might just do. All it needs is a trip through the car wash to get the oil and crud out of it. No big deal. I used a truck engine to moor my SC22 for years, and the local marina guy dropped a concrete mooring he cast in his own yard into my beachfront for 250 bucks, delivered. He told me it needed to cure on land for a couple of weeks to satisfy the enviromaniacs. Terry K |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
If you can find them locally, a couple of scrap trainwheels work well
too. ....and they have a handy hole in the middle to run your chain through. Matt Terry K wrote: How big a boat? An engine from a T-bird might just do. All it needs is a trip through the car wash to get the oil and crud out of it. No big deal. I used a truck engine to moor my SC22 for years, and the local marina guy dropped a concrete mooring he cast in his own yard into my beachfront for 250 bucks, delivered. He told me it needed to cure on land for a couple of weeks to satisfy the enviromaniacs. Terry K |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
If you can find them locally, a couple of scrap trainwheels work well
too. ....and they have a handy hole in the middle to run your chain through. Matt Terry K wrote: How big a boat? An engine from a T-bird might just do. All it needs is a trip through the car wash to get the oil and crud out of it. No big deal. I used a truck engine to moor my SC22 for years, and the local marina guy dropped a concrete mooring he cast in his own yard into my beachfront for 250 bucks, delivered. He told me it needed to cure on land for a couple of weeks to satisfy the enviromaniacs. Terry K |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 02:33:32 -0700, Terry K wrote:
He told me it needed to cure on land for a couple of weeks to satisfy the enviromaniacs. How dare he be environmentally responsible. Probably a potential terrorist too. Someone phone the NSA...oh wait, they're already listening...nevermind |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
The 3.8 litre V6 in my runabout weighs 800 lbs ... so find an old engine that size or larger and yer good to go, er, anchor. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Train wheels are good. One wheel with half the axle is what a couple of
friends in Baddeck are using. He won't tell me where he got them. Another option are Crusher Cones, inner or outer, made of manganese steel, from rock crushers. About 1000 lbs I believe. Some other friends of mine use them. I'm not sire where he got them, he's had them for years. Perhaps Paul Hashem's Scrap Yard on Brookland St. in Sydney could help. (902) 564-6346 They may have other suggestions. -- Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin Cape Breton Island, Canada kenheaton at eastlink dot ca wrote in message oups.com... If you can find them locally, a couple of scrap trainwheels work well too. ....and they have a handy hole in the middle to run your chain through. Matt Terry K wrote: How big a boat? An engine from a T-bird might just do. All it needs is a trip through the car wash to get the oil and crud out of it. No big deal. I used a truck engine to moor my SC22 for years, and the local marina guy dropped a concrete mooring he cast in his own yard into my beachfront for 250 bucks, delivered. He told me it needed to cure on land for a couple of weeks to satisfy the enviromaniacs. Terry K |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Ken Heaton wrote:
Train wheels are good. One wheel with half the axle is what a couple of friends in Baddeck are using. He won't tell me where he got them. Another option are Crusher Cones, inner or outer, made of manganese steel, from rock crushers. About 1000 lbs I believe. Some other friends of mine use them. I'm not sire where he got them, he's had them for years. Perhaps Paul Hashem's Scrap Yard on Brookland St. in Sydney could help. (902) 564-6346 They may have other suggestions. At the Halifax Boat Show in February, a local firm was selling concrete anchors. Since I trailer sail I wasn't interested at the time. I believe I still have the show program somewhere and could look if anyone is interested. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Ken Heaton wrote:
Train wheels are good. One wheel with half the axle is what a couple of friends in Baddeck are using. He won't tell me where he got them. Another option are Crusher Cones, inner or outer, made of manganese steel, from rock crushers. About 1000 lbs I believe. Some other friends of mine use them. I'm not sire where he got them, he's had them for years. Perhaps Paul Hashem's Scrap Yard on Brookland St. in Sydney could help. (902) 564-6346 They may have other suggestions. Ken, How are these people gettin' these things in the water :-) Thanks again, Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Don White wrote:
Ken Heaton wrote: Train wheels are good. One wheel with half the axle is what a couple of friends in Baddeck are using. He won't tell me where he got them. Another option are Crusher Cones, inner or outer, made of manganese steel, from rock crushers. About 1000 lbs I believe. Some other friends of mine use them. I'm not sire where he got them, he's had them for years. Perhaps Paul Hashem's Scrap Yard on Brookland St. in Sydney could help. (902) 564-6346 They may have other suggestions. At the Halifax Boat Show in February, a local firm was selling concrete anchors. Since I trailer sail I wasn't interested at the time. I believe I still have the show program somewhere and could look if anyone is interested. I accept and thank you for the offer, especially since I'm in Nova Scotia. Cordially, Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
a fifteen foot tall statue of elvis, especially if it had his guitar
sticking out on both sides. on a serious note, i thought that most moorings were poured concrete, poured right on the spot using whatever kind of form you can make/find. concrete cures just fine under water once it's been poured, and i'm sure concrete is easier to deal than a fifteen foot tall statue of elvis. Courtney Thomas wrote: I want to install a fixed mooring this summer and see that for example mushroom anchors are expensive. The environment is... Atlantic salt water, in a fairly well protected cove, with 6' tides, in about 10-15' of water, virtually no traffic and a spit serving as immediate breakwater. Alternative suggestions to a mushroom would be appreciated. Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
purple_stars wrote:
a fifteen foot tall statue of elvis, especially if it had his guitar sticking out on both sides. on a serious note, i thought that most moorings were poured concrete, poured right on the spot using whatever kind of form you can make/find. concrete cures just fine under water once it's been poured, and i'm sure concrete is easier to deal than a fifteen foot tall statue of elvis. Courtney Thomas wrote: I want to install a fixed mooring this summer and see that for example mushroom anchors are expensive. The environment is... Atlantic salt water, in a fairly well protected cove, with 6' tides, in about 10-15' of water, virtually no traffic and a spit serving as immediate breakwater. Alternative suggestions to a mushroom would be appreciated. Courtney My understanding is that concrete loses a lot of it's 'weight' in water, whereas steel/iron do not and given the recent hurricane rash I'd prefer all I can reasonably get. Plus I'm not in an area catering to such services as installing moorings, for example. Gratefully, Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Courtney Thomas wrote:
I accept and thank you for the offer, especially since I'm in Nova Scotia. Cordially, Courtney Wouldn't you know it...That program sat around since the middle of February, and I must have thrown it out last week when I came across it. I went to the show list of exhibitors (floor plan doesn't seem to be available) see ** http://tinyurl.com/e6lfm ** and I'm pretty sure it's 'Good Mooring St. Margarets Bay Inc.' re 411 program......... Good Mooring 902-826-2628 St Margarets Bay, NS B3Z 1H3 Category: Docks & Dock Builders |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 16:31:46 GMT, Courtney Thomas wrote:
Courtney Thomas wrote: I want to install a fixed mooring this summer and see that for example mushroom anchors are expensive. The environment is... Atlantic salt water, in a fairly well protected cove, with 6' tides, in about 10-15' of water, virtually no traffic and a spit serving as immediate breakwater. Alternative suggestions to a mushroom would be appreciated. Courtney My understanding is that concrete loses a lot of it's 'weight' in water, whereas steel/iron do not and given the recent hurricane rash I'd prefer all I can reasonably get. Plus I'm not in an area catering to such services as installing moorings, for example. Gratefully, Courtney correct on the "losing it's weight" in water ... sal****er is 64 lbs per cu ft (displaces 64 lbs per cu ft) per my pocket ref on material weights (any typos are mine) cast iron 450 lb/cu ft portland cement 100 lb/cu ft mortar cement 135 lb/cu ft gravel concrete 150 lb/cu ft limestone w/Portland concrete 148 lb/cu ft marble 160 lb/cu ft so, water will displace 64 lbs of an item, so cast iron has a bottom weight in salt water of 386 lbs per cu/ft the different cement mixes are 36 to 86 lbs per cu ft when in the water I've seen both cement and marble slab moorings in this area ... in blocks (not formed to dig) and while they tend to sink in over time depending on bottom composition. I've also seen them move to shore during a storm. I personally wouldn't use a block without adding a mushroom to the works ... the block would prevent the mushroom from lifting, the mushroom would keep the block from moving. note: I am not a ground tackle expert ... I have used the weight formulas to determine lift bag requirements or drums to perform uw lifts and recovery. - Ed -- refillable drysuit talc bag $10.95 ppd http://www.underwaterusa.com |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 16:31:46 GMT, Courtney Thomas
wrote: My understanding is that concrete loses a lot of it's 'weight' in water, whereas steel/iron do not and given the recent hurricane rash I'd prefer all I can reasonably get. Plus I'm not in an area catering to such services as installing moorings, for example. Steel has a higher density than concrete so it takes more concrete to make a proper mooring. That said, concrete mooring blocks are quite common and relatively cheap. You only need about 6 cubic feet to make a 2,000 lb block which is plenty of weight even allowing for the lower density. Any concrete plant or competent "do it yourselfer" could make one for you at low cost. Some concrete plants make them up out of their excess production and may have a few laying around. Typically a loop of 3/4 inch chain or wire rope is cast into the block as an anchor point. Unless you own a floating work barge with hoist, you will need professional assistance to transport the block and plant it. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 14:09:23 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: You only need about 6 cubic feet to make a 2,000 lb block Correction: Make that 14 cubic feet for a 2,000 lb block. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Wayne.B wrote:
Unless you own a floating work barge with hoist, you will need professional assistance to transport the block and plant it. maybe you could get it into a cheap wooden dingy, tow it out to where you want it, and then use large amounts of 4th of july fireworks to "dramatically" plant the mooring on the bottom. if enough explosives were involved i'd pay 5$us to see that lol ... |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 14:09:23 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: You only need about 6 cubic feet to make a 2,000 lb block Correction: Make that 14 cubic feet for a 2,000 lb block. I was gonna say...that wheelbarrow of mine must be some strong! |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
maybe you could get it into a cheap wooden dingy, tow it out to where
you want it, and then use large amounts of 4th of july fireworks to "dramatically" plant the mooring on the bottom. if enough explosives were involved i'd pay 5$us to see that lol ... The way that old Enoch Winslow did it was to back the truck down to the water at low tide. and dump it. then he would bring two wooden skiffs with a couple 6x6 lashing them together, hanging the weight between them. The chain was attached to the logs by a thick rope. At high tide he woud tow the skiffs, chain and mooring bouy to where the mooring was to be set. At the proper place his helper would take an axe to the rope. Leanne s/v Fundy |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
I was around when one of the crusher cones went in. We rolled it out of a
pickup truck next to the water onto a floating dock section with a few small logs in between as rollers. We then pulled the floating dock out to the position desired (with mooring chain and float already attached) and pushed it off the dock. It made a pretty splash. There were five or six guys aroud for this as extra hands are handy. Watch your toes. These are in the Bras d'Or Lakes, one in a very exposed location. They dig into the bottom by themselves and DO NOT MOVE. Very nice. I work with one of the guys who put a train wheel or two in at Baddeck Harbour so I'll see him Monday and ask him how they got those in. -- Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin Cape Breton Island, Canada kenheaton at eastlink dot ca "Courtney Thomas" wrote in message k.net... Ken Heaton wrote: Train wheels are good. One wheel with half the axle is what a couple of friends in Baddeck are using. He won't tell me where he got them. Another option are Crusher Cones, inner or outer, made of manganese steel, from rock crushers. About 1000 lbs I believe. Some other friends of mine use them. I'm not sire where he got them, he's had them for years. Perhaps Paul Hashem's Scrap Yard on Brookland St. in Sydney could help. (902) 564-6346 They may have other suggestions. Ken, How are these people gettin' these things in the water :-) Thanks again, Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
purple_stars wrote:
a fifteen foot tall statue of elvis, especially if it had his guitar sticking out on both sides. on a serious note, i thought that most moorings were poured concrete, poured right on the spot using whatever kind of form you can make/find. concrete cures just fine under water once it's been poured, and i'm sure concrete is easier to deal than a fifteen foot tall statue of elvis. Courtney Thomas wrote: I want to install a fixed mooring this summer and see that for example mushroom anchors are expensive. The environment is... Atlantic salt water, in a fairly well protected cove, with 6' tides, in about 10-15' of water, virtually no traffic and a spit serving as immediate breakwater. Alternative suggestions to a mushroom would be appreciated. Courtney Depending on the aggregate in the mix, concrete is just about the worst substance you can use. A stone aggregate will barely hold a 35-footer unless the weight is dug in about 12 feet down in heavy mud. How are you going to do this? I saw a newly-laid slab of concrete "hopped across" the bay by a Nicholoson 32 in a force 6 some years ago. If you use iron or steel aggregate, then you increase the weight per unit volume slightly, but it's still too light for storm conditions. Train wheels are far-and-away the best moorings, next to a couple of large (and expensive) mushrooms with 30 metres of 1" link chain between 'em. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Courtney Thomas wrote:
My understanding is that concrete loses a lot of it's 'weight' in water, whereas steel/iron do not and given the recent hurricane rash I'd prefer all I can reasonably get. Plus I'm not in an area catering to such services as installing moorings, for example. The reason for most of the mass of a mooring anchor is to dig it into the seabed. The mass, after it's buried, isn't too proportional to its holding power. Thus once buried, a concrete cone would work as well as an iron mushroom anchor of greater density. -paul |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
I'd second the idea about concrete. It has very low density and unless
it is buried very deeply is less likely to provide as much holding power. An alternative approach might be to use something very heavy as a center weight such as a car engine block but to then add a few additional anchors around it. I helped a friend do this with his mooring a few years back and it seems to have worked very well. We dropped an engine into the mud, having first threaded several heavy chain loops threw it and welded them in place. Each loop attached to a singe very large turnbuckle to which the mooring chain was attached. What made it someone different was that we added three small danforth anchors in a star pattern radiating out from it, each on about 10' of chain. We dug a trough for each of these and tensioned them so that the anchors were completely set and then covered them over. The block provided weight and the anchors provided lateral resistance. Seems to have worked fine. Hope this helps. Robb Dennis Pogson wrote: Depending on the aggregate in the mix, concrete is just about the worst substance you can use. A stone aggregate will barely hold a 35-footer unless the weight is dug in about 12 feet down in heavy mud. How are you going to do this? I saw a newly-laid slab of concrete "hopped across" the bay by a Nicholoson 32 in a force 6 some years ago. If you use iron or steel aggregate, then you increase the weight per unit volume slightly, but it's still too light for storm conditions. Train wheels are far-and-away the best moorings, next to a couple of large (and expensive) mushrooms with 30 metres of 1" link chain between 'em. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Same idea, more common - manhole covers. Available from a street near
you... Sal's Dad wrote in message oups.com... If you can find them locally, a couple of scrap trainwheels work well too. ....and they have a handy hole in the middle to run your chain through. Matt Terry K wrote: How big a boat? An engine from a T-bird might just do. All it needs is a trip through the car wash to get the oil and crud out of it. No big deal. I used a truck engine to moor my SC22 for years, and the local marina guy dropped a concrete mooring he cast in his own yard into my beachfront for 250 bucks, delivered. He told me it needed to cure on land for a couple of weeks to satisfy the enviromaniacs. Terry K |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
RE. getting the train wheels "out there" .
When we set up my dad's mooring, (4 trainwheels) we simply sued the anchor roller on his Bayfield 23 with a 2 part prushase led to a winch. We'd pick up the wheels 1 by one, take them out tot he mooring aite and lower them to the bottom.. Matt Sal's Dad wrote: Same idea, more common - manhole covers. Available from a street near you... Sal's Dad wrote in message oups.com... If you can find them locally, a couple of scrap trainwheels work well too. ....and they have a handy hole in the middle to run your chain through. Matt Terry K wrote: How big a boat? An engine from a T-bird might just do. All it needs is a trip through the car wash to get the oil and crud out of it. No big deal. I used a truck engine to moor my SC22 for years, and the local marina guy dropped a concrete mooring he cast in his own yard into my beachfront for 250 bucks, delivered. He told me it needed to cure on land for a couple of weeks to satisfy the enviromaniacs. Terry K |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
|
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Don White wrote:
Courtney Thomas wrote: I accept and thank you for the offer, especially since I'm in Nova Scotia. Cordially, Courtney Wouldn't you know it...That program sat around since the middle of February, and I must have thrown it out last week when I came across it. I went to the show list of exhibitors (floor plan doesn't seem to be available) see ** http://tinyurl.com/e6lfm ** and I'm pretty sure it's 'Good Mooring St. Margarets Bay Inc.' re 411 program......... Good Mooring 902-826-2628 St Margarets Bay, NS B3Z 1H3 Category: Docks & Dock Builders Thank you for your trouble, Don. Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Ken Heaton wrote:
I was around when one of the crusher cones went in. We rolled it out of a pickup truck next to the water onto a floating dock section with a few small logs in between as rollers. We then pulled the floating dock out to the position desired (with mooring chain and float already attached) and pushed it off the dock. It made a pretty splash. There were five or six guys aroud for this as extra hands are handy. Watch your toes. These are in the Bras d'Or Lakes, one in a very exposed location. They dig into the bottom by themselves and DO NOT MOVE. Very nice. I work with one of the guys who put a train wheel or two in at Baddeck Harbour so I'll see him Monday and ask him how they got those in. Ken, Any chance of your finding out where to get the "crusher cones" and their cost ? Appreciatively, Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
|
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
Courtney Thomas wrote:
Any trainwheels available in the Nova Scotia area ? Any active trainyard should generate them on a regular basis, and they're common fodder for steel scrap yards; I've never *not* seen a pile at the big local one. They seem to be around 500 pounds per, based on the "I can barely lift this up on edge, and really don't want to have my toes under when I let go" metric. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
andrew m. boardman wrote:
Courtney Thomas wrote: Any trainwheels available in the Nova Scotia area ? Any active trainyard should generate them on a regular basis, and they're common fodder for steel scrap yards; I've never *not* seen a pile at the big local one. They seem to be around 500 pounds per, based on the "I can barely lift this up on edge, and really don't want to have my toes under when I let go" metric. Availability in Nova Scotia? Good question...they closed the big maintenance yard in Moncton (20 miles over New Brunswick border) about 20 years back. Then they opened a new maintenance facility in Halifax...which now houses a film production company. Montreal may be the closest full maintenance shop in the East. We are a major train terminal here re port traffic and end of Trans-Canada passenger service, but I haven't seen any wheels lying around. |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
There are some concrete places that make mooring blocks out of high strength
concrete specifically for sal****er use. ( South Shore Concrete near Chester NS for example). The last time I picked up a 1500lb block for a mooring it was under $100.00 for the block. Concrete blocks are easy to transfer if properly lashed to a trailer capable of holding the weight. I used 1/2" galvanized chain for the mooring and a large buoy with spliced poly rope for hawsers. Some things to consider are the type of sea bed, mud versus rock bottom and the size of your boat. This particular mooring was a guest mooring for a friends cottage. Some boats will use more than one block chained together if it is a large boat. If you have a mud bottom the block will sink in the bottom and increase holding resistance versus blocks located on a hard gravel or rocky bottom. I usually service(diving) between 80 -100 moorings a year and can assist with any suggestions. -bob 499-0824 cell bobATfox.nstn.ca "Courtney Thomas" wrote in message ink.net... Ken Heaton wrote: I was around when one of the crusher cones went in. We rolled it out of a pickup truck next to the water onto a floating dock section with a few small logs in between as rollers. We then pulled the floating dock out to the position desired (with mooring chain and float already attached) and pushed it off the dock. It made a pretty splash. There were five or six guys aroud for this as extra hands are handy. Watch your toes. These are in the Bras d'Or Lakes, one in a very exposed location. They dig into the bottom by themselves and DO NOT MOVE. Very nice. I work with one of the guys who put a train wheel or two in at Baddeck Harbour so I'll see him Monday and ask him how they got those in. Ken, Any chance of your finding out where to get the "crusher cones" and their cost ? Appreciatively, Courtney |
Suggestion for a 4-800 lb. inexpensive mooring ?
I worked at a sailing school that used a variation on that theme.
They would set the blocks in the water and float a 17' Boston Whaler over it, setting up a sling that would suspend the mooring directly under the boat when the tide came in. The trick was to set up a loop so that one cut would set the block free to drop. The one time the line got fouled it flipped the whaler. Jonathan Leanne wrote: maybe you could get it into a cheap wooden dingy, tow it out to where you want it, and then use large amounts of 4th of july fireworks to "dramatically" plant the mooring on the bottom. if enough explosives were involved i'd pay 5$us to see that lol ... The way that old Enoch Winslow did it was to back the truck down to the water at low tide. and dump it. then he would bring two wooden skiffs with a couple 6x6 lashing them together, hanging the weight between them. The chain was attached to the logs by a thick rope. At high tide he woud tow the skiffs, chain and mooring bouy to where the mooring was to be set. At the proper place his helper would take an axe to the rope. Leanne s/v Fundy -- I am building my daughter an Argie 10 sailing dinghy, check it out: http://home.comcast.net/~jonsailr |
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