Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

This is the second season I have taken my Yamaha T9.9 out of storage and had
problems
getting it to run properly. I took extra pains to put it away properly last
year. I used Stabil in the last tank of gas. I also ran some Sea Foam through
it. The
engine was run out until it would not start. I fogged the engine at the end and
opened
a drain plug on the carb to empty any remaining gas. The engine would barely
start
this week and would die when put into gear. I cleaned the jets, but missed the
jet
for mid-range running that was hidden under a plastic cap. My friendly outboard
mechanic
found it and showed me it was blocked. After cleaning this jet, the engine
finally ran. I am using fresh gas, so that was not the problem. I have a
filter on the
gas tank, and there is another one on the engine. It is possibly a combination
of the
newer formulas of gas and the design of these later model four strokes (mine is
a
2002 with less than 50 hours on it). Some people recommend running the engine
at
least every 3 weeks, which is not always possible, and what about winter
lay-ups?
My mechanic recommended using a Mercury product for cleaning carbs that is added

to the gas tank. I am skeptical, but am trying it any ways. I never had any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!

Sherwin D.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

The problem is unfortunately very common. It is caused by the new oxygenated
fuel blends that the Government is stuffing down our throats. These blends
go sour after about 90 days and leave a waxy residue behind that clogs
everything.
Steve

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
This is the second season I have taken my Yamaha T9.9 out of storage and
had
problems
getting it to run properly. I took extra pains to put it away properly
last
year. I used Stabil in the last tank of gas. I also ran some Sea Foam
through
it. The
engine was run out until it would not start. I fogged the engine at the
end and
opened
a drain plug on the carb to empty any remaining gas. The engine would
barely
start
this week and would die when put into gear. I cleaned the jets, but
missed the
jet
for mid-range running that was hidden under a plastic cap. My friendly
outboard
mechanic
found it and showed me it was blocked. After cleaning this jet, the
engine
finally ran. I am using fresh gas, so that was not the problem. I have a
filter on the
gas tank, and there is another one on the engine. It is possibly a
combination
of the
newer formulas of gas and the design of these later model four strokes
(mine is
a
2002 with less than 50 hours on it). Some people recommend running the
engine
at
least every 3 weeks, which is not always possible, and what about winter
lay-ups?
My mechanic recommended using a Mercury product for cleaning carbs that is
added

to the gas tank. I am skeptical, but am trying it any ways. I never had
any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!

Sherwin D.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

The other thing is that supposedly the jets on 4 stroke engines are a lot
smaller than on a similar size 2 stroke because they use much less fuel, and
that fuel is thinner since there is no oil mix. So it doesn't take as much
debris to foul the jet. Or so I've been told.
I know I had fuel problems w/ my 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke, especially after rough
seas.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
This is the second season I have taken my Yamaha T9.9 out of storage and
had
problems
getting it to run properly. I took extra pains to put it away properly
last
year. I used Stabil in the last tank of gas. I also ran some Sea Foam
through
it. The
engine was run out until it would not start. I fogged the engine at the
end and
opened
a drain plug on the carb to empty any remaining gas. The engine would
barely
start
this week and would die when put into gear. I cleaned the jets, but
missed the
jet
for mid-range running that was hidden under a plastic cap. My friendly
outboard
mechanic
found it and showed me it was blocked. After cleaning this jet, the
engine
finally ran. I am using fresh gas, so that was not the problem. I have a
filter on the
gas tank, and there is another one on the engine. It is possibly a
combination
of the
newer formulas of gas and the design of these later model four strokes
(mine is
a
2002 with less than 50 hours on it). Some people recommend running the
engine
at
least every 3 weeks, which is not always possible, and what about winter
lay-ups?
My mechanic recommended using a Mercury product for cleaning carbs that is
added

to the gas tank. I am skeptical, but am trying it any ways. I never had
any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!

Sherwin D.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

Yours is an interesting theory, and you can't argue with success. However, it sounds

like leaving the gas in (Stabil or not) is asking for trouble as that gas will dry
up, given
enough time. You have to really have faith that Stabil will not allow a residue to
remain
behind. Besides, even the Yamaha manual tells you to run all the gas out of the
engine.
I would really like to see a definitive report from a Yamaha designed on this whole
issue,
but will probably never see it. Maybe there is another factor about your case that
would
explain your successful storage of the engine. Right now, I'm a bit skeptical about
your
methods.

Sherwin D.

Mys Terry wrote:

On Thu, 04 May 2006 01:16:08 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:

This is the second season I have taken my Yamaha T9.9 out of storage and had
problems
getting it to run properly. I took extra pains to put it away properly last
year. I used Stabil in the last tank of gas. I also ran some Sea Foam through
it. The
engine was run out until it would not start. I fogged the engine at the end and
opened
a drain plug on the carb to empty any remaining gas. The engine would barely
start
this week and would die when put into gear. I cleaned the jets, but missed the
jet
for mid-range running that was hidden under a plastic cap. My friendly outboard
mechanic
found it and showed me it was blocked. After cleaning this jet, the engine
finally ran. I am using fresh gas, so that was not the problem. I have a
filter on the
gas tank, and there is another one on the engine. It is possibly a combination
of the
newer formulas of gas and the design of these later model four strokes (mine is
a
2002 with less than 50 hours on it). Some people recommend running the engine
at
least every 3 weeks, which is not always possible, and what about winter
lay-ups?
My mechanic recommended using a Mercury product for cleaning carbs that is added

to the gas tank. I am skeptical, but am trying it any ways. I never had any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!

Sherwin D.

I have the same engine, and mine started right up and ran perfectly
after 6 months of winter storage. The difference in our methods is
that I do not run the engine dry and drain the carb. I leave them full
of gas with stabil.

You have already discovered that storing it dry led to a clogged jet.
That jet wasn't clogged when you put the engine away.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

Sherwin,

I've got basically the same motor that you have
and I've had to pull the carb and clean the jets a
couple of times since 2000. Fuel stabilizer
helps, but it also helps to be able to pull the
carb and take it apart yourself.

Once you do it, you'll realize that its really
simple to clean the jets, and probably only takes
15 minutes or so to remove the carb, disassemble
it, clean the jets, reassemble it, and put it
back on.

If you're really having problems you could do that
at home before you take the motor back to the boat.

I fought a finicky motor for two years before I
finally got disgusted, and pulled the carb myself.
You can get all the parts off of the web, and
you won't even need to replace any parts if you're
careful.

That motor sure is quiet and clean running when it
is running well.

Don W.

sherwindu wrote:

Yours is an interesting theory, and you can't argue with success. However, it sounds

like leaving the gas in (Stabil or not) is asking for trouble as that gas will dry
up, given
enough time. You have to really have faith that Stabil will not allow a residue to
remain
behind. Besides, even the Yamaha manual tells you to run all the gas out of the
engine.
I would really like to see a definitive report from a Yamaha designed on this whole
issue,
but will probably never see it. Maybe there is another factor about your case that
would
explain your successful storage of the engine. Right now, I'm a bit skeptical about
your
methods.

Sherwin D.

Mys Terry wrote:


On Thu, 04 May 2006 01:16:08 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:


This is the second season I have taken my Yamaha T9.9 out of storage and had
problems
getting it to run properly. I took extra pains to put it away properly last
year. I used Stabil in the last tank of gas. I also ran some Sea Foam through
it. The
engine was run out until it would not start. I fogged the engine at the end and
opened
a drain plug on the carb to empty any remaining gas. The engine would barely
start
this week and would die when put into gear. I cleaned the jets, but missed the
jet
for mid-range running that was hidden under a plastic cap. My friendly outboard
mechanic
found it and showed me it was blocked. After cleaning this jet, the engine
finally ran. I am using fresh gas, so that was not the problem. I have a
filter on the
gas tank, and there is another one on the engine. It is possibly a combination
of the
newer formulas of gas and the design of these later model four strokes (mine is
a
2002 with less than 50 hours on it). Some people recommend running the engine
at
least every 3 weeks, which is not always possible, and what about winter
lay-ups?
My mechanic recommended using a Mercury product for cleaning carbs that is added

to the gas tank. I am skeptical, but am trying it any ways. I never had any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!

Sherwin D.

I have the same engine, and mine started right up and ran perfectly
after 6 months of winter storage. The difference in our methods is
that I do not run the engine dry and drain the carb. I leave them full
of gas with stabil.

You have already discovered that storing it dry led to a clogged jet.
That jet wasn't clogged when you put the engine away.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

Mys Terry wrote:

BTW - cleaning jets with a wire is BAD. it scratches the bore and leads to more
clogs.
Terry & Skipper, Clearlake Texas

Terry,

What do you use to clean those tiny jets? I used
a number drill for the main, but the idle jet was
so small that I had to find a very small wire to
push through it. So far no more clogs in about
three years. Sure runs a lot better than it did
when I got it.

Don W.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

Don,

I am sure getting lot's of practice removing and reinstalling the carb. What finally
worked for me is when I took it in to a really competent mechanic. He located a jet
I wasn't even aware of, the mid-range jet, which was hiding under a plastic cap. After
cleaning that, I was able to put the engine in gear without it dying out. I then ran the
engine in gear at slow speeds for about a quarter hour and it smoothened out
and seems to be ok now. This mechanic did not think much of the Sea Foam I used
in the gas tank because it was not backed by any engine manufacturer. He recommended a
product of Mercury called QuickSilver or QuickClean. One ounce
of that treats 4 gallons of gas. He maintained that using that product would keep my
engine trouble free. I too can now pull the carb in about 15 minutes. What worries me is
that I'm working over water and can easily drop something overboard. I put
a 'catcher' under the engine, just in case, but you know about Murphy's Law about
if anything can go wrong, it will. If any of the car manufacturers had this kind of
problem, they would be out of business. Yamaha sent me an email today about considering an
upgrade to their new line of 4-stroke EFI engines to save fuel consumption. If they make
those jets any smaller we will save lots of gas, but stew in frustration over the
maintenance. Makes me wonder if these engine manufacturers
are living in the real world, or some fantasy one.

Sherwin

Don W wrote:

Sherwin,

I've got basically the same motor that you have
and I've had to pull the carb and clean the jets a
couple of times since 2000. Fuel stabilizer
helps, but it also helps to be able to pull the
carb and take it apart yourself.

Once you do it, you'll realize that its really
simple to clean the jets, and probably only takes
15 minutes or so to remove the carb, disassemble
it, clean the jets, reassemble it, and put it
back on.

If you're really having problems you could do that
at home before you take the motor back to the boat.

I fought a finicky motor for two years before I
finally got disgusted, and pulled the carb myself.
You can get all the parts off of the web, and
you won't even need to replace any parts if you're
careful.

That motor sure is quiet and clean running when it
is running well.

Don W.

sherwindu wrote:

Yours is an interesting theory, and you can't argue with success. However, it sounds

like leaving the gas in (Stabil or not) is asking for trouble as that gas will dry
up, given
enough time. You have to really have faith that Stabil will not allow a residue to
remain
behind. Besides, even the Yamaha manual tells you to run all the gas out of the
engine.
I would really like to see a definitive report from a Yamaha designed on this whole
issue,
but will probably never see it. Maybe there is another factor about your case that
would
explain your successful storage of the engine. Right now, I'm a bit skeptical about
your
methods.

Sherwin D.

Mys Terry wrote:


On Thu, 04 May 2006 01:16:08 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:


This is the second season I have taken my Yamaha T9.9 out of storage and had
problems
getting it to run properly. I took extra pains to put it away properly last
year. I used Stabil in the last tank of gas. I also ran some Sea Foam through
it. The
engine was run out until it would not start. I fogged the engine at the end and
opened
a drain plug on the carb to empty any remaining gas. The engine would barely
start
this week and would die when put into gear. I cleaned the jets, but missed the
jet
for mid-range running that was hidden under a plastic cap. My friendly outboard
mechanic
found it and showed me it was blocked. After cleaning this jet, the engine
finally ran. I am using fresh gas, so that was not the problem. I have a
filter on the
gas tank, and there is another one on the engine. It is possibly a combination
of the
newer formulas of gas and the design of these later model four strokes (mine is
a
2002 with less than 50 hours on it). Some people recommend running the engine
at
least every 3 weeks, which is not always possible, and what about winter
lay-ups?
My mechanic recommended using a Mercury product for cleaning carbs that is added

to the gas tank. I am skeptical, but am trying it any ways. I never had any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!

Sherwin D.

I have the same engine, and mine started right up and ran perfectly
after 6 months of winter storage. The difference in our methods is
that I do not run the engine dry and drain the carb. I leave them full
of gas with stabil.

You have already discovered that storing it dry led to a clogged jet.
That jet wasn't clogged when you put the engine away.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

Mys Terry wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 01:16:08 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:


This is the second season I have taken my Yamaha T9.9 out of storage and had
problems
getting it to run properly. I took extra pains to put it away properly last
year. I used Stabil in the last tank of gas. I also ran some Sea Foam through
it. The
engine was run out until it would not start. I fogged the engine at the end and
opened
a drain plug on the carb to empty any remaining gas. The engine would barely
start
this week and would die when put into gear. I cleaned the jets, but missed the
jet
for mid-range running that was hidden under a plastic cap. My friendly outboard
mechanic
found it and showed me it was blocked. After cleaning this jet, the engine
finally ran. I am using fresh gas, so that was not the problem. I have a
filter on the
gas tank, and there is another one on the engine. It is possibly a combination
of the
newer formulas of gas and the design of these later model four strokes (mine is
a
2002 with less than 50 hours on it). Some people recommend running the engine
at
least every 3 weeks, which is not always possible, and what about winter
lay-ups?
My mechanic recommended using a Mercury product for cleaning carbs that is added

to the gas tank. I am skeptical, but am trying it any ways. I never had any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!

Sherwin D.


I have the same engine, and mine started right up and ran perfectly
after 6 months of winter storage. The difference in our methods is
that I do not run the engine dry and drain the carb. I leave them full
of gas with stabil.

You have already discovered that storing it dry led to a clogged jet.
That jet wasn't clogged when you put the engine away.


Just wondering - Why would you fog a 4 stroke? I thought the idea of
fogging a 2 stroke was to coat and protect the bearings/cages, etc., in
the otherwise unlubricated (and open to the atmosphere) crankcase area,
since fuel flows thru this area on the way to the combustion chamber.
In a 4 stroke, fuel goes from the carb(s) to the manifold directly into
the combustion chamber. Seems to me that fogging probably adds to the
carburator problems in this type engine.

HH

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

sherwindu wrote:

Don,

I am sure getting lot's of practice removing and reinstalling the carb. What finally
worked for me is when I took it in to a really competent mechanic. He located a jet
I wasn't even aware of, the mid-range jet, which was hiding under a plastic cap. After
cleaning that, I was able to put the engine in gear without it dying out. I then ran the
engine in gear at slow speeds for about a quarter hour and it smoothened out
and seems to be ok now.

This link may be helpful for you. It sure was for
me, and they're also a good source if you need parts.

http://www.boats.net/yamaha/partsyst...5dc715ee20c05c

(Yes, it is a really long URL, and YES they do
have diagrams for the other year models also.
Mine just happens to be a 1996 model)

I too can now pull the carb in about 15 minutes. What worries me is
that I'm working over water and can easily drop something overboard.

Been there, done that. I learned to work slowly
and be veeerrry careful. ;-)

I put a 'catcher' under the engine, just in case, but you know about
Murphy's Law about if anything can go wrong, it will.

See, you defeated Murphy by placing the catcher.
Of course, the water is not the only place you can
drop something. Try fishing a little part such as
one of those tiny clips out of the downhousing :(

Now that you know how small those jets are it
kinda makes you want to make sure that sucker has
a clean fuel filter in it and a clean gas can
attached to it doesn't it ;-)

Don W.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

I have the same engine, and mine started right up and ran perfectly
after 6 months of winter storage. The difference in our methods is
that I do not run the engine dry and drain the carb. I leave them full
of gas with stabil.
You have already discovered that storing it dry led to a clogged jet.
That jet wasn't clogged when you put the engine away.


Just wondering - Why would you fog a 4 stroke? I thought the idea of
fogging a 2 stroke was to coat and protect the bearings/cages, etc., in
the otherwise unlubricated (and open to the atmosphere) crankcase area,
since fuel flows thru this area on the way to the combustion chamber. In
a 4 stroke, fuel goes from the carb(s) to the manifold directly into the
combustion chamber. Seems to me that fogging probably adds to the
carburator problems in this type engine.

HH

The reason that you fog any engine is to cut down
on rust forming on the cylinder walls, rings,
valve faces, and valve seats while it is sitting.

Don W.

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

Don W wrote:

I have the same engine, and mine started right up and ran perfectly
after 6 months of winter storage. The difference in our methods is
that I do not run the engine dry and drain the carb. I leave them full
of gas with stabil.
You have already discovered that storing it dry led to a clogged jet.
That jet wasn't clogged when you put the engine away.


Just wondering - Why would you fog a 4 stroke? I thought the idea of
fogging a 2 stroke was to coat and protect the bearings/cages, etc.,
in the otherwise unlubricated (and open to the atmosphere) crankcase
area, since fuel flows thru this area on the way to the combustion
chamber. In a 4 stroke, fuel goes from the carb(s) to the manifold
directly into the combustion chamber. Seems to me that fogging
probably adds to the carburator problems in this type engine.

HH


The reason that you fog any engine is to cut down on rust forming on the
cylinder walls, rings, valve faces, and valve seats while it is sitting.

Don W.

Seems reasonable. I'll remember that advice when I move to a 4 stroke. HH

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

Right, my first engine was a Silver Century Plus Seagull, which lasted many
years,
including a jaunt from Illinois to Florida via the Mississippi River.

However, I never liked the noise from the two strokes and premixing the gas and
oil was always a pain.

I made the mistake of thinking a big company like Yamaha knew how to design a
4 stroke to work with today's gasoline. Big mistake. Not only is taking the
engine
out of storage a dreaded experience, but just missing a week or two of use is
also
an adventure, where you never know if the engine will run properly until you try
it.
I have torn down my carb so often, it reminds me of tearing down my former M1,
blindfolded. All this from an engine that cost well over two grand.

Sherwin D.

Larry wrote:

sherwindu wrote in news:44599C28.2766BD73
@comcast.net:

I never had any
of these problems with my old two strokes. That's progress!


The old 2-strokes, now scoffed at and abused, had OIL in their gas,
preventing the gas from turning to pure shellac and clogging the jets.
When the gas in the carbs evaporated, the jets were full of OIL, not an
orange solid you have to drill out to clean off. So, when you pulled the
old 2-stroke out of storage, the OIL in the carbs clogging everything up
just mixed with the new gas-oil pumping in and caused that wonderful
cloud of blue smoke that always wafted up your nose, announcing to your
brain that, "ANOTHER GREAT BOATING SEASON HAS JUST BEGUN!"...(C;

Of course, the OLDER the old 2-stroke was, the BETTER this worked. Gas
premixed 15:1 with "Flying A" SAE 30 motor oil greasily coating every
surface of the old motor caused by the mix pouring out of the little
float pin in the top of the carb, protected it all from any corrosion, as
well as starting problems. (Look at any old Seagull 2-stroker)...

That trail of oil floating on the lake behind you going away from the
dock wasn't pollution, it was CORROSION PROTECTION!....

I wanna know where it all went. If you listen to a Greenie talking about
2-stroke outboard motors, every lake in the country SHOULD be about 3"
deep in motor oil! After all, they've been driving those engines since
1900! I didn't see any in the lakes or even in the ocean, downstream.
Where'd it all go? Over my lifetime, I must have contributed several
thousand gallons.

My little Yamaha 3hp is a 2-stroke.....Cranks right up...er, ah...if I
remember to open the vent cap..(blush).

Fed up with Yamaha 4-stroke
 

sherwindu wrote in news:446FFBA8.B9366443
@comcast.net:

premixing the gas and
oil was always a pain.


I can't figure this one out, myself. Changing the oil in that damned fool
Nissan 4-stroker 5hp and having to be really careful to lay it down in a
specific position to keep the oil in the sump from pumping itself up into
the jug or running out somewhere is MUCH more of a pain in the arse than
dumping a pint of TC-W3 into a 10 gallon tank...(40:1 is real easy to
measure and works great!)

The 2-stroke, being MUCH simpler with only a few moving parts, just weighs
less, especially hauling it up the side of the boat from the dingy by hand.

Yeah, it makes more noise...not an argument about that....about $1000 more
noise at today's prices, as you noted....

Why does a 25hp outboard motor cost twice what a Honda 25hp Rebel
motorcycle costs??