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Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
I just went down to my lair to teach myself how to splice Sta-Set.
Foolishly, I decided to start right out on my new main sheet. I got to step #67 of the instructions and something didn’t look right. ****! I don’t know if I wasn’t paying attention or if the drum was on the wrong spool but I’ve got Sta-Set X! FYI, you can’t switch mid stream from the instructions for one type to the other, at least at my level of experience. Now it’s too short for the main sheet. Anybody want 41 feet of 7/16" Sta-Set X? Fortunately, it’s just long enough for a new Genoa sheet giving me an excuse to replace those this year rather than next. N.E. Ropes web site lists Sta-Set as "Excellent" for jib sheets and Sta-SetX as only "good". I assume this is because of the better handling qualities of the former. OTOH I’m always taking up on the headsail sheets on my wide sheeting base boat so maybe the lower stretch is a good trade off. Now my questions: Will the stiffer Sta-SetX make it harder for my typically young and inexperienced crews to get the sheets on and off the winches briskly? Should I just take my lumps and go with the "excellent" regular Sta-Set? What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don’t want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I’d like to be able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the working jib. Which knot? Now that I have one half of a set, it’s got to be a knot that goes in the end. Minimal tendency to hang up on the stays is also important. I have a vague memory of something about running a spliced eye through the clew cringle and then the other sheet through the eye to secure it and reverse for the other side. Or, maybe each bitter end just goes through it’s own eye. Anybody have experience with something like this? -- Roger Long |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:55:07 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don't want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I'd like to be able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the working jib. Which knot? All of that is sort of mutually exclusive. If you want to be able to easily remove the sheets, AND clear easily around the shrouds, your best bet is a nice sleek metal flabingis. That's what most racing boats use, and they typically weigh less than the D-ring which can also give you a good smack. In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. It has been the traditional way for a kazillion years because it is strong, reliable and easy to untie. The downside is that a bowline will hang on the shrouds once in a while, and some crew members never seem to master tying one in a fast and efficient way. If they can't tie a bowline they shouldn't be on a yacht. Dennis. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Really? What were some of the circumstances? I almost had one shake loose...
light air, jib flogging gently, short tail on the bowline... but it never actually happened. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Dave" wrote in message ... On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B said: In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose. Still looking for a good substitute. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
I'm with you here, well tied bowlines shouldn't come loose often. I've
had it happen a few times on a lazy sheet but I've had more sheets break than bowlines wiggle loose. I really don't like putting hardware onto the clews of non-boomed jibs. Jibs will flog and eventually somebody will get hit by them. I nearly lost my brother when he was hit by a jib that had tied sheets on it. Knocked him out cold and I'm sure he'd be dead if we'd had hardware on the clew. -- Tom |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Mys Terry wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:55:46 GMT, "Dennis Pogson" wrote: Wayne.B wrote: .... If they can't tie a bowline they shouldn't be on a yacht. Dennis. Correction: If they can't tie a bowline with one hand they shouldn't be on a yacht. Just last season I had to throw my mother-in-law overboard because she couldn't tie an one handed inverted bowline in the dark in under 5 seconds. It was a hard decision, but standards must be maintained. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
I'm against that also. Jib sheets should be tied with a bowline with 6
inches or so of bitter end. The boat I sail on regularly has fairly old running rigging, certainly none of it hi-tech. Some of it is quite stiff, but it's still workable. Never had a problem, but I'm not saying it's impossible. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com wrote in message oups.com... I'm with you here, well tied bowlines shouldn't come loose often. I've had it happen a few times on a lazy sheet but I've had more sheets break than bowlines wiggle loose. I really don't like putting hardware onto the clews of non-boomed jibs. Jibs will flog and eventually somebody will get hit by them. I nearly lost my brother when he was hit by a jib that had tied sheets on it. Knocked him out cold and I'm sure he'd be dead if we'd had hardware on the clew. -- Tom |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow
who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working on the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the bowline. The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he came. He broke his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that it had to be amputated, eventually. Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story. The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Howard Mys Terry wrote: On 12 Mar 2006 14:33:10 -0600, Dave wrote: On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B said: In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose. Still looking for a good substitute. In roughly 45 years I've never had that happen. Not once. Are you sure you are tying it properly? I'm serious. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
"Roger Long" wrote:
What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don’t want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I’d like to be able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the working jib. Which knot? Wrong question. Why knot? Wayne.B wrote: All of that is sort of mutually exclusive. If you want to be able to easily remove the sheets, AND clear easily around the shrouds, your best bet is a nice sleek metal flabingis. That's what most racing boats use, and they typically weigh less than the D-ring which can also give you a good smack. Hmm... I don't know of that many boats using metal shackles on the jib sheets. You can look at pictures from Key West and see for yourself. You may be thinking of spinnaker clew shackles, of which there are several types including some that are made of some type of space age plastic instead of metal (which I'd prefer if I had to go this route) In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. It has been the traditional way for a kazillion years because it is strong, reliable and easy to untie. The downside is that a bowline will hang on the shrouds once in a while, and some crew members never seem to master tying one in a fast and efficient way. Another alternative is to put a figure-eight knot thru the clew in such a way that it passes on the outside of the sail from the shrouds. I learned to do this with spinnakers and it also works for jibs. Another alternative is to splice the sheets together as if you were forming an eye, but instead have a single tail. This can be fastened either with a bowline or the figure-eight, and it has less tendency to catch on the shrouds because it's not being dragged by the lazy sheet. The splice tends to run smoothly as it's hauled around. The problem with a shackle on the jib clew is that it flails the crap out of everything, including any human flesh that gets in it's way. For years we sailed boats that used double-purhcase jib sheets, and so had to have small blocks at the jib clew. You could often hear the mast ring like a bell when we tacked, and it was well marked in the area corresponding to the jib clew. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Mys Terry wrote:
On 12 Mar 2006 14:33:10 -0600, Dave wrote: On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B said: In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose. Still looking for a good substitute. In roughly 45 years I've never had that happen. Not once. Are you sure you are tying it properly? I'm serious. Maybe he should 'whip' the loose end with waxed twine. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point?
Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the bitter end back through the eye. I wish I hadn't already bought one half of the sheet accidentally because just putting a bight in the middle through the cringle and bringing both bitter ends through it make the most sense to me this morning. It seems like this is something there should be a standard for in traditional boats. I'm surprised I never picked it up from my tarred hemp and baggywrinkle days. After all, there is a "Topsail Sheet Bend". That's almost exactly the same requirements as a headsail so, why isn't it a "Sail Bend" or isn't there a "Jib Sheet Bend". I asked over at the Wooden Boat Forum where people obsess about these things and didn't get an answer. -- Roger Long "DSK" wrote in message ... "Roger Long" wrote: What is the best headsail sheet attachment method? Clearly I don’t want a metal flabingis up there flailing around but I’d like to be able to easily remove the sheets so I can use the same ones on the working jib. Which knot? Wrong question. Why knot? Wayne.B wrote: All of that is sort of mutually exclusive. If you want to be able to easily remove the sheets, AND clear easily around the shrouds, your best bet is a nice sleek metal flabingis. That's what most racing boats use, and they typically weigh less than the D-ring which can also give you a good smack. Hmm... I don't know of that many boats using metal shackles on the jib sheets. You can look at pictures from Key West and see for yourself. You may be thinking of spinnaker clew shackles, of which there are several types including some that are made of some type of space age plastic instead of metal (which I'd prefer if I had to go this route) In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. It has been the traditional way for a kazillion years because it is strong, reliable and easy to untie. The downside is that a bowline will hang on the shrouds once in a while, and some crew members never seem to master tying one in a fast and efficient way. Another alternative is to put a figure-eight knot thru the clew in such a way that it passes on the outside of the sail from the shrouds. I learned to do this with spinnakers and it also works for jibs. Another alternative is to splice the sheets together as if you were forming an eye, but instead have a single tail. This can be fastened either with a bowline or the figure-eight, and it has less tendency to catch on the shrouds because it's not being dragged by the lazy sheet. The splice tends to run smoothly as it's hauled around. The problem with a shackle on the jib clew is that it flails the crap out of everything, including any human flesh that gets in it's way. For years we sailed boats that used double-purhcase jib sheets, and so had to have small blocks at the jib clew. You could often hear the mast ring like a bell when we tacked, and it was well marked in the area corresponding to the jib clew. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Wayne.B wrote:
No there are several very compact jib sheet shackles available and many serious racing boats use them. Yes, I know. Many more don't, though. ... They are so small that they're almost invisible inside the eye splice. Well, go to some web sites with pics from Key Wst Race week and see... a lot of hi-dollar boats out there using bowlines on the jib sheets, including at least a few of the new Swan 45s. I don't believe that the cost of an $80 shackle is of any concern to these guys. Another option that I forgot is a cowlick knot or lark's head. That's where you push the bight of the jib sheet thru the D-ring and bring both ends thru it, and cinch the clew to the center of the sheet. That one is a bit harder to re-rig in a hurry, but it seems like a better option to me than to use eye splices cinched up. DSK |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Roger Long wrote:
What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point? Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the bitter end back through the eye. This works until you want to end-for-end it. I wish I hadn't already bought one half of the sheet accidentally because just putting a bight in the middle through the cringle and bringing both bitter ends through it make the most sense to me this morning. I've done this on smaller boats; I'm not sure its appropriate for the high load of larger boats. It seems like this is something there should be a standard for in traditional boats. I'm surprised I never picked it up from my tarred hemp and baggywrinkle days. After all, there is a "Topsail Sheet Bend". That's almost exactly the same requirements as a headsail so, why isn't it a "Sail Bend" or isn't there a "Jib Sheet Bend". I asked over at the Wooden Boat Forum where people obsess about these things and didn't get an answer. You mean, like a "tackbend"? We've had this discussion before. I use bowlines, which I've never heard of failing on normal Dacron. However, they can snag on stays, and if this happens, I would go to the stunsail tackbend. I use this knot in numerous places, its probably the most common knot on my boat. One problem is that with large sheets you have a huge solid hunk of rope on the clew. http://www.wellesley.edu/Athletics/P...mainsheet.html Perhaps there is a need for some new high tech product, perhaps a Kevlar strap that can be spliced onto a sheet. Or is there some soft equivalent of a "bulldog" clamp for rope? |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:29:15 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point? Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the bitter end back through the eye. That's OK for a roller furled jib where you leave the sheets attached permanently, not good however if you have any need for a fast sail change. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Sounds like another good argument for a safety line when aloft.
MMC "Howard" wrote in message ervers.com... Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working on the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the bowline. The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he came. He broke his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that it had to be amputated, eventually. Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story. The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Howard Mys Terry wrote: On 12 Mar 2006 14:33:10 -0600, Dave wrote: On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500, Wayne.B said: In lieu of that, there is no substitute for a good bowline knot. I dunno. I've had singularly bad luck with bowlines' shaking loose. Still looking for a good substitute. In roughly 45 years I've never had that happen. Not once. Are you sure you are tying it properly? I'm serious. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
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Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
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Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
"Howard" wrote in message
ervers.com... Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working on the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the bowline. The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he came. He broke his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that it had to be amputated, eventually. Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story. The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Howard Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to prevent just this sort of thing. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to
prevent just this sort of thing. Are you sure it's "typical"? I would agree that it's smart, advisable, damn good idea, etc. It might even become universal unless it turns out that the creationists and intelligent design wacko's are correct. When I look at the foolishness that goes on around me, I'm not sure "typical" is a word I would want to defend in this case:) -- Roger Long "Capt. JG" wrote |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:19:04 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to prevent just this sort of thing. Are you sure it's "typical"? It was always standard operating procedure on my sailboats. We never clipped on either, always tied off the halyard with a bowline and clipped the snap shackle only for redundancy. Racing boats under way, that's a whole 'nother story. Some crazy things go on there like free climbing the foreguy to trip off the spinnaker, etc. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
"Roger Long" wrote in message
... Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to prevent just this sort of thing. Are you sure it's "typical"? I would agree that it's smart, advisable, damn good idea, etc. It might even become universal unless it turns out that the creationists and intelligent design wacko's are correct. When I look at the foolishness that goes on around me, I'm not sure "typical" is a word I would want to defend in this case:) When you're right, you're right. For those of us who have a clue, typical is the right word, but I guess I mis-typed... typical is the case with someone who is smart enough to realize the downside to not doing it. That problem usually sorts itself out rather quickly, and one can then apply for a Darwin Award. :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:29:15 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: What about this idea I'm leaning towards at this point? Put a generous sized eyesplice in each sheet and simply bring the bitter end back through the eye. I wish I hadn't already bought one half of the sheet accidentally because just putting a bight in the middle through the cringle and bringing both bitter ends through it make the most sense to me this morning. It seems like this is something there should be a standard for in traditional boats. I'm surprised I never picked it up from my tarred hemp and baggywrinkle days. After all, there is a "Topsail Sheet Bend". That's almost exactly the same requirements as a headsail so, why isn't it a "Sail Bend" or isn't there a "Jib Sheet Bend". I asked over at the Wooden Boat Forum where people obsess about these things and didn't get an answer. I don't remember the name but I saw an old squarerigger knot in Ashley's kot book that looked interesting. Form a bight about a foot from the end of the sheet then shove the bight through the ring/cringle. Bring the short tail of the line around to the side of the sail that the bight is now sticking out of and insert the tail into the loop. Pull the long sheet tight and the bight of line captures the short tail of line and pins it. It works like a monkey trap. The bight can't pull back through the cringle because of the tail holding it open. Too big of a cringle/ring or too small of a sheet and it won't hold. Come to think about it you wouldn't want to let it flog around much. Mark E. Williams |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty
wrote: In article rs.com, says... The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can splice it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot, but not a bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically recommended for halyards because it will not come loose and will not jam in the sheaves. It's also whipped to make sure it won't come loose. Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"? Mark E. Williams |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
All these horror stories makes me wonder. I have used snap shackles for 35 years
and never had the slightest problem. Yes, I know how to tie a bowline, but untying one on a bouncing fordeck could be a challange. If you grab the sheets back from the clew and pull them in instead of grabbing for the shackle, you should be safe enough. To be fair, I should mention that I only sail a 22 footer, so I can't speak for boats with larger foresails. Sherwin D. Mys Terry wrote: On 12 Mar 2006 16:53:48 -0800, " wrote: I'm with you here, well tied bowlines shouldn't come loose often. I've had it happen a few times on a lazy sheet but I've had more sheets break than bowlines wiggle loose. I really don't like putting hardware onto the clews of non-boomed jibs. Jibs will flog and eventually somebody will get hit by them. I nearly lost my brother when he was hit by a jib that had tied sheets on it. Knocked him out cold and I'm sure he'd be dead if we'd had hardware on the clew. -- Tom Locally we had a guy who thought that snap shackles were the cat's meow for sheets. He would tell everybody how clever it was. Then one day, in stiff winds he was coming about and as the snap shackle dragged across a shroud, it snapped on and took the whole rig down. I've never had THAT problem with a bowline either! |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
"sherwindu" wrote in message
... All these horror stories makes me wonder. I have used snap shackles for 35 years and never had the slightest problem. Yes, I know how to tie a bowline, but untying one on a bouncing fordeck could be a challange. If you grab the sheets back from the clew and pull them in instead of grabbing for the shackle, you should be safe enough. To be fair, I should mention that I only sail a 22 footer, so I can't speak for boats with larger foresails. Seems to me that it's easier to untie a bowline on a decent size line than it would be to try and undo a shackle. I don't know if a larger boat would be harder or easier, as far as that goes. But, when it's cold, trying to get your gloved hands on a small shackle seems difficult to me. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Maynard G. Krebbs wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty wrote: In article rs.com, says... The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can splice it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot, but not a bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically recommended for halyards because it will not come loose and will not jam in the sheaves. It's also whipped to make sure it won't come loose. Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"? Mark E. Williams The buntline hitch is the same as the stuns'l tackbend that I have advocated on a number of occasions, and Roger showed in his picture. http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm It is the perfect knot for a number of places, such as the halyard, but can be a problem if used to attach two large sheets to a jib. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Maybe you know. I got no answer from the traditionalists over at the
Wooden Boat forum. How did people attach their jib sheets back in the age of canvas? Everyone seems to use bowlines now but, if something like a stuns'l tackbend has a special name, why not jib sheet clews. I notice that a knot with "tack" in it probably is intended to get the sail as close into the block as possible. Even with my current splicing enthusiasm, I'm still going to attach my halyard shackles this way. Easy to move the chafe point, easy to grab, no thick splice in the sheave, what's not to like? I think spliced loops are the way to go for roller jibs that are going to come down on deck anyway before anyone takes the sheets off. I'd hate to have someone talk me out of it though just after making the two eye splices. (Better hurry) -- Roger Long "Jeff" wrote in message ... Maynard G. Krebbs wrote: On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty wrote: In article rvers.com, says... The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can splice it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot, but not a bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically recommended for halyards because it will not come loose and will not jam in the sheaves. It's also whipped to make sure it won't come loose. Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"? Mark E. Williams The buntline hitch is the same as the stuns'l tackbend that I have advocated on a number of occasions, and Roger showed in his picture. http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm It is the perfect knot for a number of places, such as the halyard, but can be a problem if used to attach two large sheets to a jib. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Roger Long wrote:
Maybe you know. I got no answer from the traditionalists over at the Wooden Boat forum. How did people attach their jib sheets back in the age of canvas? Everyone seems to use bowlines now but, if something like a stuns'l tackbend has a special name, why not jib sheet clews. I don't know. I have a few books I can look through, and it is time for my Spring visit to the USS Constitution, so I might be able to come up with an answer in a few days. I notice that a knot with "tack" in it probably is intended to get the sail as close into the block as possible. Even with my current splicing enthusiasm, I'm still going to attach my halyard shackles this way. Easy to move the chafe point, easy to grab, no thick splice in the sheave, what's not to like? yup! I think spliced loops are the way to go for roller jibs that are going to come down on deck anyway before anyone takes the sheets off. I'd hate to have someone talk me out of it though just after making the two eye splices. (Better hurry) I agree that there is virtue in a eye splice doubled through the cringle - I setup some of my fenders this way, figuring it can handle twice the abuse this way. But before you do it, make sure your clew can handle four passes of the line. And is the shape of it such that each will pull in the proper direction, even after they're drawn tight? |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Capt. JG wrote:
"Howard" wrote in message ervers.com... Some where, within the last week or two, I read a report about a fellow who used a bowline to affix his bosuns chair. He was using some new fangled, high tech rope. Any way, or so the story goes, he was working on the top of the mast alternatingly putting stress on and off the bowline. The new fangled rope worked out of the bowline and down he came. He broke his fall but still screwed up one foot bad enough that it had to be amputated, eventually. Sorry but I can not recall the source of this story. The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Howard Typically, one uses more than one line when going up the mast to prevent just this sort of thing. Climbers use a double figure eight with a long tail. Anyone going up the mast should as well. The bowline is the wrong knot. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Jeff wrote:
Maynard G. Krebbs wrote: On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:29:10 -0500, Gogarty wrote: In article rs.com, says... The jist was that there are some new high tech ropes that have different characteristics than we are accoustomed to and you may need to be careful. I think that this was some sort of braid over a parallel core but would not swear to it. Have some of that stuff on my new main halyard. Maybe some people can splice it. I can't. So it is affixed to the head shackle with a knot, but not a bowline. I forget the name but it is specifically recommended for halyards because it will not come loose and will not jam in the sheaves. It's also whipped to make sure it won't come loose. Possibly a "Buntline Hitch"? Mark E. Williams The buntline hitch is the same as the stuns'l tackbend that I have advocated on a number of occasions, and Roger showed in his picture. http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm It is the perfect knot for a number of places, such as the halyard, but can be a problem if used to attach two large sheets to a jib. Buntline hitches are hard to undo. We use them where we need a strong knot that takes no space and never gets undone. The bitter end of the reefing lines (on the boom). For all our sheets we use bowlines. We haven't had one come undone since I have been sailing the boat. Our genoa sheets are 25mm or about an inch in diameter. If we used a correspondingly large shackle it would do significant damage. Even so we have had sailors knocked out by the line itself. Sure the bowline occasionally gets snagged on a shroud but it shakes it self loose pretty quickly. Not really a problem. We tie our bowlines with long tails. One bowline is tied close to the sail, the other a little longer so they don't make double the lump to get around the shrouds. Gary |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:31:35 -0600, sherwindu
wrote: All these horror stories makes me wonder. I have used snap shackles for 35 years and never had the slightest problem. You've been fortunate. There are actually conditions where some snap shackles are able to flog themselves open just from inertial forces. I had one set that needed to have extra strong springs installed on the shackle pin because it was happening too routinely. Having the release pin or its lanyard snag on something is another proven shackle opener. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:31:35 -0600, sherwindu wrote: All these horror stories makes me wonder. I have used snap shackles for 35 years and never had the slightest problem. You've been fortunate. There are actually conditions where some snap shackles are able to flog themselves open just from inertial forces. I had one set that needed to have extra strong springs installed on the shackle pin because it was happening too routinely. Having the release pin or its lanyard snag on something is another proven shackle opener. We had a situation on one of our boats where that happened at the tack on a jib. It was a few years ago... the halyard wasn't all the way up and was bouncing up and down enough to pop the shackle. I believe the shackle was defective, so I'm not sure if that was the reason or if it would have happened anyway. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:02:58 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote: I believe the shackle was defective, so I'm not sure if that was the reason or if it would have happened anyway. Probably not defective strictly speaking, just a spring too weak for the flogging forces generated. My issue was on spinnaker halyards if memory is correct. When the wind was blowing hard the spinnaker would get about halfway up, and poof, the shackle would magically open. I originally assumed that the shackle had not been properly closed or it was some kind of weird one-time event but after several more fiascos it became clear that the shackle was actually opening under its own volition. The cure was a stronger spring which fortunately my rigger had in stock. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Invented. Equiplite shackles. Pricey, used on A-Cup, Volvo and Gran
Prix racers. See: http://www.hallspars.com/Store/R_Equiplite.htm |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Barient used to make one of the best called a J-Lock but they are out of business.
Still available; Tylaska's making them now. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Barient used to make one of the best called a J-Lock but they are out of business.
Still available, Tylaska's making them now. Best thing about 'em is they'll pass through jib fairlead blocks when reeving sheets, as they're not much bigger than line diameter. Also there's a new kid on the block, same idea called Presslock shackles. See: http://www.vcperformancerigging.com/... &riPageID=33 |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:08:04 +0000, Gary wrote:
Climbers use a double figure eight with a long tail. Anyone going up the mast should as well. The bowline is the wrong knot. The difference is there's enough tension on a jib sheet to keep a bowline tight. A climber's safety line is slack most of the time, so a bowline can shake loose. This is why climbers use figure eights. They're also easier to untie. After catching a fall, a bowline could be too difficult for a climber to untie as well. The problem with a double figure eight is the weight and bulk. It catches on shrouds, and can be as bad as a metal shackle when flogging around. I know because I've tried it. If you have to use a knot to tie your jibsheets on, a bowline is the way to go, unless your cringle is small enough for a stopper knot to work. Even then, a bowline is probably better, except in rare cases. Matt O. |
Jib sheet questions and hand wringing
Matt O'Toole wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:08:04 +0000, Gary wrote: Climbers use a double figure eight with a long tail. Anyone going up the mast should as well. The bowline is the wrong knot. The difference is there's enough tension on a jib sheet to keep a bowline tight. A climber's safety line is slack most of the time, so a bowline can shake loose. This is why climbers use figure eights. They're also easier to untie. After catching a fall, a bowline could be too difficult for a climber to untie as well. The problem with a double figure eight is the weight and bulk. It catches on shrouds, and can be as bad as a metal shackle when flogging around. I know because I've tried it. If you have to use a knot to tie your jibsheets on, a bowline is the way to go, unless your cringle is small enough for a stopper knot to work. Even then, a bowline is probably better, except in rare cases. Matt O. I wasn't trying to convince anyone to use figure eights on sheets but to use them when going up the mast. I am firmly in the bowline camp on sheets. Gary |
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