AC power idea for target practice
 

Here’s one of those wild ideas that will probably get shot down
(probably by Larry) but some of us may learn something from the
patterns the flames make.

I’ve got a nice, temperature compensated, battery charger for running
off the AC at dockside. When running for long periods under power
however, my expensive AGM’s are being driven by the alternator which
isn’t significantly different from the ones on the Model T.
Retrofitting my larger spare with an expensive, 3 stage, temperature
compensated regulator is on my wish list.

However, why not disconnect the alternator from the battery circuit
and run it to an inverter large enough to run the dual 10 amp battery
charger? The battery charger then plugs into the AC and one charger
does it all. If I switched off the battery charger, this would also
give me some AC power when the engine was running.

I don’t use AC much and don’t care much for making it by drawing down
my batteries. I wouldn’t mind having the engine idling for the
infrequent times I would like AC away from the dock.

If I could make this work (by switching off battery charging) well
enough to heat up my small hot water heater, which would also be
getting waste exhaust heat (although not much with just 20 HP) , it
would be the nuts.

--

Roger Long

AC power idea for target practice
 

Disregarding the possible merits of the idea, the problem is going to be
matching the alternator output to the inverter. The inverter expects to
see 12 VDC (nominal) but could be designed (could have been designed) to
accept the multi-phase, higher-voltage, frequency-dependent-upon-engine
speed, alternator output.

Your job, should you agree to accept it, is to query the inverter
manufacturers to determine whether their products will accept
unprocessed alternator output. Having established that such units are
commercially available, we can then debate whether the arrangement is a
"good idea".

By way of a preview, depending on an awful lot of awful things, your
Model T-era charging may not be improved much by even the most costly
charger on the market. You might try to establish whether it is the
alternator/regulator combination that is causing your charging
irritation or the unwillingness of your expensive AGM's to accept bulk
charge at the exalted rates of which we dream.

:) Chuck



Roger Long wrote:
Here’s one of those wild ideas that will probably get shot down
(probably by Larry) but some of us may learn something from the
patterns the flames make.

I’ve got a nice, temperature compensated, battery charger for running
off the AC at dockside. When running for long periods under power
however, my expensive AGM’s are being driven by the alternator which
isn’t significantly different from the ones on the Model T.
Retrofitting my larger spare with an expensive, 3 stage, temperature
compensated regulator is on my wish list.

However, why not disconnect the alternator from the battery circuit
and run it to an inverter large enough to run the dual 10 amp battery
charger? The battery charger then plugs into the AC and one charger
does it all. If I switched off the battery charger, this would also
give me some AC power when the engine was running.

I don’t use AC much and don’t care much for making it by drawing down
my batteries. I wouldn’t mind having the engine idling for the
infrequent times I would like AC away from the dock.

If I could make this work (by switching off battery charging) well
enough to heat up my small hot water heater, which would also be
getting waste exhaust heat (although not much with just 20 HP) , it
would be the nuts.

AC power idea for target practice
 

There would probably have to be another voltage regulator in between
the alternator output (from it's standard regulator) and the inverter.

I bought one of those little inverters that go in a cigarette lighter
so I could charge extra cell phone batteries in my car. I have an
unswitched outlet that is on all the time and the charger works great
in that. As soon as I turn the engine on however, the light on the
charger blinks rapidly back and forth from green to red. (charging to
charged). I'm not sure if it's charging but I haven't wanted to risk
the $70 battery and $40 charger to find out.

Sounds like you are pointing me towards similar problems on a much
bigger and more expensive scale.

BTW my AGM's are working great the way I am using them, short motoring
periods and an overnight plug in about once a week to top them up.
With a 20 HP engine and very minimal hotel loads, they don't work hard
anyway. I'm just wondering how they would like being driven by the
low tech Hitachi alternator with its tiny built in regulator if I had
occasion to motor for 12 - 25 hours straight to move the boat
somewhere.

--

Roger Long

AC power idea for target practice
 

I know this is a serious question and I'm not trying to be a PIA. From
model T's to inverters in one fell swoop. Model T's were hand cranked,
used a spark coil and a magneto (I think).
There was no battery, heater or fuel pump. Basic in black. All in fun
boys

AC power idea for target practice
 

Hey!

Don't you know it is a material violation of usenet rules to post real
facts!

Actually, the T's did have dry cell batteries to aid in generating a
healthy spark while hand-cranking.

But you are dead on in saying that they had no alternators or generators.

Thanks!

Chuck

wrote:
I know this is a serious question and I'm not trying to be a PIA. From
model T's to inverters in one fell swoop. Model T's were hand cranked,
used a spark coil and a magneto (I think).
There was no battery, heater or fuel pump. Basic in black. All in fun
boys

AC power idea for target practice
 

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:56:14 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

However, why not disconnect the alternator from the battery circuit
and run it to an inverter large enough to run the dual 10 amp battery
charger?

The alternator needs to always have a load on the output to keep the
voltage from going too high and burning out the diodes (integral to
the alternator). Normally the battery provides this constant load.
The risk is that your inverter might have a mode where it turns off in
some way, leaving the alternator unloaded, and leaving you looking for
a replacement. I'd leave the battery in the circuit, why take a
chance?

AC power idea for target practice
 

"Wayne.B" wrote

a replacement. I'd leave the battery in the circuit, why take a
chance?


Oh, I have no plans to actually do this. It's just a conceptual idea
I'm throwing out. The whole thing would have to be carefully
designed.

There is a gadget called, I think, a "Zapstopper" to protect the
alternator diodes if your wife's cousin turns the battery switch to
off when you ask him shut off the cabin lights. Something like that
might take care of the concern you raise though.

--

Roger Long

AC power idea for target practice
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:2GAQf.7687$Zs1.7219
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

When running for long periods under power
however, my expensive AGM's are being driven by the alternator which
isn't significantly different from the ones on the Model T.
Retrofitting my larger spare with an expensive, 3 stage, temperature
compensated regulator is on my wish list.


Like most boaters who've been sold amazingly overpriced AGM batteries,
you've been duped into thinking they are some amazingly different
technology than the cheap $89 golf cart batteries from Sam's Club.

The AGM battery is not. It's simply a cheaper way of rolling up thin lead
plates with glass mats soaked in the same electrolyte used in all the other
lead-acid batteries. These plates cannot be as thick as the ones in the
golf cart batteries because the big thick plates are very hard to bend.
With so limited an amount of electrolyte, that cannot flow in the gauze and
cool the cell while moving fresh acid in contact with the plates as the
solution of lead sulphate moves away, it matters little how thin the plates
are. To get capacity, the plates rolled up are huge!

BOTH these archaic lead-acid batteries are charged just fine with any
standard alternator with a voltage regulator. They've been working fine
since way before the Model T was produced....(c;

AC power idea for target practice
 

No I wasn't duped. I didn't get the AGM's because I expect any better
electrical performance. Quite the opposite. I know that standard wet
cells carefully tended by a knowledgeable person equipped with
hydrometers, thermometers, bottles of distilled water, flashlight,
face shield, and internet connection will give better performance and
cost less than anything out there.

I just don't want to muck around with all that stuff (if you could see
where my batteries are, you would know why:). I also don't want free
liquid acid and batteries with a space that gas can mix with oxygen
above the acid in my boat. I know that I'm paying a price in both
money (lots) and performance (slight) for the convenience and safety.

One of the compromises, as you have pointed out, is that the wet cells
are much better at cooling themselves because the liquid electrolyte
can convect around and carry heat to the surface. If a long run under
power with a crude voltage regulator overcharges the wet cells, they
will tolerate it better. If they do boil off some electrolyte, I
would discover it and correct it the next time I wanted to get warm
and fuzzy with my batteries. With AGM's, I'll just be moving the next
expensive replacement a bit closer. Thus, I want to be sure that I am
charging them very carefully.

--

Roger Long



"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" wrote in news:2GAQf.7687$Zs1.7219
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

When running for long periods under power
however, my expensive AGM's are being driven by the alternator
which
isn't significantly different from the ones on the Model T.
Retrofitting my larger spare with an expensive, 3 stage,
temperature
compensated regulator is on my wish list.


Like most boaters who've been sold amazingly overpriced AGM
batteries,
you've been duped into thinking they are some amazingly different
technology than the cheap $89 golf cart batteries from Sam's Club.

The AGM battery is not. It's simply a cheaper way of rolling up
thin lead
plates with glass mats soaked in the same electrolyte used in all
the other
lead-acid batteries. These plates cannot be as thick as the ones in
the
golf cart batteries because the big thick plates are very hard to
bend.
With so limited an amount of electrolyte, that cannot flow in the
gauze and
cool the cell while moving fresh acid in contact with the plates as
the
solution of lead sulphate moves away, it matters little how thin the
plates
are. To get capacity, the plates rolled up are huge!

BOTH these archaic lead-acid batteries are charged just fine with
any
standard alternator with a voltage regulator. They've been working
fine
since way before the Model T was produced....(c;

AC power idea for target practice
 

A little off topic, but..

I'd like to brag about my Gell-cell batteries. The prior owner of the boat
bought them about 14/15 years ago. I tested them again this year, they hold
charge when rested, and supply good power under load, close to new
specifications!

These are 8D Sonnenschein 8D Prevailer Dry-Fit, Gel-Cell.
I'm sure they cost a lot of money 14 years ago, talk about return on
investment!


Larry wrote in
:


Like most boaters who've been sold amazingly overpriced AGM batteries,
you've been duped into thinking they are some amazingly different
technology than the cheap $89 golf cart batteries from Sam's Club.

The AGM battery is not. It's simply a cheaper way of rolling up thin
lead plates with glass mats soaked in the same electrolyte used in all
the other lead-acid batteries. These plates cannot be as thick as the
ones in the golf cart batteries because the big thick plates are very
hard to bend. With so limited an amount of electrolyte, that cannot
flow in the gauze and cool the cell while moving fresh acid in contact
with the plates as the solution of lead sulphate moves away, it
matters little how thin the plates are. To get capacity, the plates
rolled up are huge!

BOTH these archaic lead-acid batteries are charged just fine with any
standard alternator with a voltage regulator. They've been working
fine since way before the Model T was produced....(c;

AC power idea for target practice
 

Yes, the inverter and alternator put out the correct charge for the Gels.
I also placed a large label on the inverter "Do not equalize!"



"Roger Long" wrote in
:

I'm curious, do you have anything special for a charger or are you
treating them just like regular lead/acid cells?

I went with AGM's because I didn't want to invest in a special voltage
regulator for the gel's. I'm still not sure how necessary that is but
it's what I was being told at the time.

AC power idea for target practice
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:geKQf.8326$Da7.1067
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

If a long run under
power with a crude voltage regulator overcharges the wet cells, they
will tolerate it better.

I've never seen a working "crude regulator" overcharge any lead batteries.
The only thing the batteries care about is 14.2V. They'll take care of the
rest (charging current) quite nicely by themselves.

I know what you mean about battery position on Endeavours. The 35' has a
little battery box under the port quarter berth wedged up under the beer
cooler that protrudes into the tiny space under the port cockpit seat. I
used to have to lay on my belly and slide into the berth backwards, after
removing the bedding and pad, then lay there with my face close to the
batteries where I could get blasted in the face if anything happened while
I was looking at the electrolyte level. We moved the house batteries into
the locker under the starboard cockpit seat in a custom box Cap'n Geoffrey
built in his wood shop. At least you didn't have to have your face into
the cell to see it. Of course, you got to unload the locker to get to the
box...(c;

AC power idea for target practice
 

"Larry" wrote

I've never seen a working "crude regulator" overcharge any lead
batteries.
The only thing the batteries care about is 14.2V.

I have. Boiled those suckers half dry. It was the first boat I ever
sailed that even had a battery and I'd borrowed if for a long cruise
with a girl who was just a hell of a lot of fun to be with on a boat
and a great shipmate but turned out to the hound from hell back on
shore. But, I digress. I figured I'd better stop the bubbling and
let things cool down enough that I could touch the battery so I turned
off the battery switch.

Got back, bought my friend a new battery and alternator. A few days
later, I put in a new voltage regulator for him. A couple days later,
another alternator. Then another voltage regulator. The guy in the
marine store said, "Didn't I see you in here the other day? You
should always replace the voltage regulator and the alternator at the
same time. They're eating each other up." Everything was fine after
that but I'd run through about 75% of my net worth at the time. I
used up the rest flying down to Florida to try and convince that girl
to sail with me forever. That was a much bigger mistake than turning
off the battery switch while the engine was running!

--

Roger Long

AC power idea for target practice
 

Hey Wayne,, that is what I was thinking but since I am too dumb to figure
this stuff out; I left it up to you.

Once, long ago, in another time, before ... anyway,, I had a boat with the
switch. The 3 way switch that you could set for battery 1, 2, or both.
Nobody told me and I was young and dumb so I decided to show off for my crew
by switching the knob.

"Look, now I am recharging both and now I am charging one"

Next day,, no alternator.

Live and learn..

JW

--
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:56:14 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

However, why not disconnect the alternator from the battery circuit
and run it to an inverter large enough to run the dual 10 amp battery
charger?

The alternator needs to always have a load on the output to keep the
voltage from going too high and burning out the diodes (integral to
the alternator). Normally the battery provides this constant load.
The risk is that your inverter might have a mode where it turns off in
some way, leaving the alternator unloaded, and leaving you looking for
a replacement. I'd leave the battery in the circuit, why take a
chance?

AC power idea for target practice
 

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:23:55 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote:

Once, long ago, in another time, before ... anyway,, I had a boat with the
switch. The 3 way switch that you could set for battery 1, 2, or both.
Nobody told me and I was young and dumb so I decided to show off for my crew
by switching the knob.

"Look, now I am recharging both and now I am charging one"

Next day,, no alternator.

Live and learn..

Oh yes. I think just about everyone with a boat has had that happen
at one time or another.

It has become my rule that the battery switch is never operated with
the engines running. Period. Doesn't matter if the switch is
"make-before-break", has a field disconnect wire, or there is a
"Zap-stopper" installed. There's always a possibility of failure and
it only takes a few microseconds to zap the diodes and ruin your next
couple of days locating and installing a replacement.

AC power idea for target practice
 

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:20:55 GMT, in message

"Roger Long" wrote:

BTW my AGM's are working great the way I am using them, short motoring
periods and an overnight plug in about once a week to top them up.
With a 20 HP engine and very minimal hotel loads, they don't work hard
anyway. I'm just wondering how they would like being driven by the
low tech Hitachi alternator with its tiny built in regulator if I had
occasion to motor for 12 - 25 hours straight to move the boat
somewhere.

If your concern is over-charging from extended motoring, how about
adding a high current draw accessory that you can turn on whenever you
don't want those amps flowing into your batteries? Just a thought...
I'm sure I can find a way to burn plenty of amps, at least in terms of
the output of a cheap little alternator.

Or read the manufacturer's specs on the AGMs to find out what their
acceptable max continuous charging voltage is and make sure your
regulator doesn't exceed that.

The "Model T" alternator I used to have on my engine (A4) was
regulated to a voltage low enough that it never really fully charged
the batteries, so I could run the engine forever... Sort of the
opposite problem to what you are imagining. I only got full charge
when I got the chance to plug in overnight. You may be in the same
situation.

I would suggest that you partially discharge the batteries, start the
engine, then go for an extended motor cruise. Monitor the voltage
across the batteries and see where it stabilizes. Then make the
assessment about whether or not extended motoring will hurt your
batteries.

Ryk

AC power idea for target practice
 

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:23:55 GMT, in message
vpUQf.183$Vb.56@trndny02
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote:

Hey Wayne,, that is what I was thinking but since I am too dumb to figure
this stuff out; I left it up to you.

Once, long ago, in another time, before ... anyway,, I had a boat with the
switch. The 3 way switch that you could set for battery 1, 2, or both.
Nobody told me and I was young and dumb so I decided to show off for my crew
by switching the knob.

"Look, now I am recharging both and now I am charging one"

Next day,, no alternator.

Perhaps that was before the days of "make before break" battery
switches designed to avoid that problem entirely by always having at
least one battery in circuit at all positions except "off".

Ryk

AC power idea for target practice
 

Ryk,, this was so long ago that Black Beard was in the slip next to me!

===

ps.. Old Black had a nice big cabin cruiser!

====
"Ryk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:23:55 GMT, in message
vpUQf.183$Vb.56@trndny02
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote:

Hey Wayne,, that is what I was thinking but since I am too dumb to figure
this stuff out; I left it up to you.

Once, long ago, in another time, before ... anyway,, I had a boat with the
switch. The 3 way switch that you could set for battery 1, 2, or both.
Nobody told me and I was young and dumb so I decided to show off for my
crew
by switching the knob.

"Look, now I am recharging both and now I am charging one"

Next day,, no alternator.

Perhaps that was before the days of "make before break" battery
switches designed to avoid that problem entirely by always having at
least one battery in circuit at all positions except "off".

Ryk

AC power idea for target practice
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:d%TQf.8372$Da7.541
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

I have. Boiled those suckers half dry. It was the first boat I ever
sailed that even had a battery and I'd borrowed if for a long cruise
with a girl who was just a hell of a lot of fun to be with on a boat
and a great shipmate but turned out to the hound from hell back on
shore. But, I digress. I figured I'd better stop the bubbling and
let things cool down enough that I could touch the battery so I turned
off the battery switch.

That was not a WORKING regulator....That was a SHORTED regulator running
the field current at full maximum. The alternator was putting out over
21V open circuit and charging like hell!

Got back, bought my friend a new battery and alternator. A few days
later, I put in a new voltage regulator for him. A couple days later,
another alternator. Then another voltage regulator. The guy in the
marine store said, "Didn't I see you in here the other day? You
should always replace the voltage regulator and the alternator at the
same time. They're eating each other up." Everything was fine after
that but I'd run through about 75% of my net worth at the time. I
used up the rest flying down to Florida to try and convince that girl
to sail with me forever. That was a much bigger mistake than turning
off the battery switch while the engine was running!



The alternators were probably fine. Overcharging doesn't hurt them as
their inherent internal resistance limits their output current to a safe
level unless they are dead shorted, which usually burns the diode
rectifiers.

He was right about replacing the regulator with the alternator. That's
why you should use alternators with BUILT IN regulators....3 connections.
Power on - Ground - Battery. KISS is always the best...(c;

The series pass transistors in the regulator that regulate the field
winding overheat then short emitter to collector, effectively putting the
field winding directly across the battery terminals. This makes the
output voltage of the alternator go to maximum uncontrolled voltage. The
voltage causes heavy charging boiling the batteries (P=IxE - 16V x 80A =
1280 watts!) It melts the cases on some of the plastic batteries. Not
sure how much of this an uncooled AGM or Gelcell could take before it
explodes....They can't boil like a wetcell does, cooling the cell to the
boiling point.

Sorry about the girl....The battery was inconsequential in comparison...
(c;

AC power idea for target practice
 

"Larry" wrote

Sorry about the girl....The battery was inconsequential in
comparison...
(c;

Well, it was a long, long, time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

You brought up a good point though. A similar failure would spray
acid soaked fiberglass mat all over my engine room. Since I don't
have an engineer standing watch to keep an eye on voltages, what would
you suggest for a simple alarm to let me know that things were
starting to go to hell in a handbasket in the voltage department?
Would you try to trip on overvoltage or just measure battery case
temperature directly?

Oh yeah, the other girl I sailed with in that boat:

We went swimming in Edgartown harbor straight out of the bunk if you
know what I mean. I got the sail up on the cat boat and we sailed out
just as we came off the assembly line. It was race week and the fleet
caught up with us and passed us motoring out to the starting line. A
yawl from the Naval Academy passed close along side. Suddenly,
someone barked an order and the entire crew lined the rail, snapped to
attention, and saluted.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so worthwhile as simply
messing around in boats.

--

Roger Long

AC power idea for target practice
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:z3oRf.1554$Mj.799
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

Would you try to trip on overvoltage or just measure battery case
temperature directly?



A voltmeter to watch that is accurate. By the time the temperature
sensor were to alarm the battery was too hot, it would be too late.

You have a long time notice the voltmeter is too high, however, as its
reading is instantaneous. Just mount it next to the oil pressure guage I
hope you're monitoring when the engine is running, not waiting for the
oil pressure alarm to tell you the crank doesn't have any lube and it's
too late to save it.

Just like in my car and truck, I want those guages to be right in front
of me when the engine is running, not some idiot light that comes on too
late. I want to see what the oil pressure and charging voltage is doing.
As to the charging, the Link 10:
http://www.energyoutfitters.com/prod...ntrex_link10.s
htm
is my guage of choice. Not only does it monitor the charging with the
alternator, but it monitors the discharging and AC battery charger's
progress, as well. Every boat with house batteries should be using one.
You can monitor your charging voltage and current, as well as your
discharge current and available amp-hours to plan how long you can run
them down before safely recharging....not waiting until the lights are
too dim...(c;

Naval Salute was AC power idea for target practice
 

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:49:29 -0500, Larry wrote:

By
gentlemen's agreement, APRS uses 10.141 LSB, which puts the RF just
inside the upper edge of the 30 meter ham band for amazing range 24/7

Other than Airmail which I already have, and using a Pactor II
TNC/ICOM-802, what kind of software do you use for position reporting
on 10.141 ?

Naval Salute was AC power idea for target practice
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

Other than Airmail which I already have, and using a Pactor II
TNC/ICOM-802, what kind of software do you use for position reporting
on 10.141 ?



APRS is its own software. It converts the data from the APRS packets (it
uses broadcasted standard packet radio, not pactor) to plot the points on
a crude map/chart then trails the target so you can see where he's going
and where he's been over long periods of time. It also charts fixed
station data like the WX stations on a system.

The APRS software's latest version and the latest maps are on Bob's site:
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs.html
Look near the bottom. This software is only necessary if you are a ham
and going to run APRS on the air. The only thing you need to watch it on
the net is your browser on findu.com.

Hookup is just as simple as your Pactor modem.....You'll need a packet
TNC like a Kam XL:
http://www.kantronics.com/products/kamxl.html
which does 300 baud, narrow-band audio for a ham SSB transceiver. HF
packet is very narrow banded compared to VHF. It has to fit in a CW
channel to keep the government bureaucrats happy. We use a 170 Hz AFSK.
Kam also does Pactor, WEFAX, and all the other modes. It also is
engineered for APRS HF/VHF crossband repeater and inband repeating.
Other APRS stations on both bands can all be used to repeat your packets
as "digipeaters" to fill in the holes caused by HF propagation.

Oops...looks like the KAM only does Pactor I so you're stuck with the
proprietary modem for II.

Be sure to set the M-802 on LSB for packet....

Naval Salute was AC power idea for target practice
 

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:06:49 -0500, Larry wrote:

Hookup is just as simple as your Pactor modem.....You'll need a packet
TNC like a Kam XL:

I was under the impression that a Pactor II was capable of operating
in packet mode.

Is that incorrect ?

I'm familiar with the web side of APRS/findu.com, just looking for new
options for sending up position reports other than Airmail.

Naval Salute was AC power idea for target practice
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

I was under the impression that a Pactor II was capable of operating
in packet mode.

Is that incorrect ?



I've never had contact with that proprietary modem so can't answer your
question. Packet is open to any manufacturer, so I suppose it should be
possible with a Pactor II modem.

The packets APRS uses are the broadcast packets just sent out in the blind.
There's no ACKs so you never know whether anyone received them or not or
whether they crashed with someone over your horizon. So, it sends them out
often. AIS' time-slot scheme is far superior to APRS in this respect.
It's nice to know everyone else's transmitter is quiet while you're
transmitting. But, unlike APRS, every packet station is a digipeater you
can put in your path, plus the packet repeaters all with the same tactical
callsign that go off if you're in their range. APRS propagates very well
through these, as is evident by findu's very long range, mostly on VHF.

AC power idea for target practice
 

Another problem would be that the battery peforms as a huge capacitor
for the alternator. The waveforms out of the alternator are pulsing DC,
and the battery will tend to level this out to a straight DC level
which the inverter likes a lot. Without the battery in the circuit, the
alternator may not even start up, as it requires excitation voltage on
the field to start up with. I am not sure about how it will behave with
just pulsing DC for a source either.
Interesting though..anyone want to try it?

Larry DeMers

Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:56:14 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:


However, why not disconnect the alternator from the battery circuit
and run it to an inverter large enough to run the dual 10 amp battery
charger?


The alternator needs to always have a load on the output to keep the
voltage from going too high and burning out the diodes (integral to
the alternator). Normally the battery provides this constant load.
The risk is that your inverter might have a mode where it turns off in
some way, leaving the alternator unloaded, and leaving you looking for
a replacement. I'd leave the battery in the circuit, why take a
chance?

AC power idea for target practice
 

Larry,

I ruined four golf cart T105's last summer by overcharging them. I
have a Balmar alternator and MH612 regulator. This regulator has a
separate wire that goes to the common positive input to my batery
combiner, and is the 12vdc reference voltage for the regulator. The
lead has an in-line fuse which corroded at one contact, interrupting the
12vdc reference signal to the regulator, and it then went open field to
17v!! We eventually smelled the hydrogen being produced..and awful tangy
smell that is unmistakeable. The plates of the battry actually warped
accordian fashion, and my capacity went from around 100aH (to 12.0v)
down to 35 aH before 12.0v. So replaced them, and the reference leads
fuse assembly. Balmar provided a replacement holder that is much
better, and sealed too.

But they did overcharge a couple times (the symptom came and went due
to vibration giving a good connection sometimes, and a bad one
occasionally. I found it only by chance) causing their being ruined.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Lake Superior

Larry wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in news:geKQf.8326$Da7.1067
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:


If a long run under
power with a crude voltage regulator overcharges the wet cells, they
will tolerate it better.


I've never seen a working "crude regulator" overcharge any lead batteries.
The only thing the batteries care about is 14.2V. They'll take care of the
rest (charging current) quite nicely by themselves.

I know what you mean about battery position on Endeavours. The 35' has a
little battery box under the port quarter berth wedged up under the beer
cooler that protrudes into the tiny space under the port cockpit seat. I
used to have to lay on my belly and slide into the berth backwards, after
removing the bedding and pad, then lay there with my face close to the
batteries where I could get blasted in the face if anything happened while
I was looking at the electrolyte level. We moved the house batteries into
the locker under the starboard cockpit seat in a custom box Cap'n Geoffrey
built in his wood shop. At least you didn't have to have your face into
the cell to see it. Of course, you got to unload the locker to get to the
box...(c;

AC power idea for target practice
 

In article ,
Larry DeMers wrote:

We eventually smelled the hydrogen being produced.

Yea, right, would you like to try again for what is behind
Door No. 3.....

What you smelled was the Sulfur Dioxode boiling off.....