fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

i'm curious what gear and methods and such you use for fishing on your
cruising boat, and also for shrimping, crabbing, collecting clams, etc,
basically getting dinner on the table! i've been reading some about it
and am just curious what you all do on your own boats, how much success
you have, etc. do you routinely catch fish ? what kind ? what's your
secret ? do you ever catch squid ?

and i apologize that i keep starting so many discussion threads
recently, but i'm really curious. lol. and it's interesting to hear
what you are all doing on your boats.

here are a few articles i found online on this subject ...

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=matthe1012
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...leid=suelar007
http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/96/tecjul96.htm
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/c...eid=sailne0842

all of those are sailnet articles, just worked out that way!

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Get a copy of The Cruisers Handbook of Fishing by Scott Bannerot.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/007...Fencoding=UTF8
This is the best book I've ever seen on the subject, and will answer
all your questions.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

See current issue of Cruising World mag, which has article on fishing
while underway.

MW

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

purple_stars wrote:
i'm curious what gear and methods and such you use for fishing on your
cruising boat, and also for shrimping, crabbing, collecting clams, etc,
basically getting dinner on the table! i've been reading some about it
and am just curious what you all do on your own boats, how much success
you have, etc. do you routinely catch fish ? what kind ? what's your
secret ? do you ever catch squid ?

and i apologize that i keep starting so many discussion threads
recently, but i'm really curious. lol. and it's interesting to hear
what you are all doing on your boats.

here are a few articles i found online on this subject ...

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=matthe1012
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...leid=suelar007
http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/96/tecjul96.htm
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/c...eid=sailne0842

all of those are sailnet articles, just worked out that way!

We've used the following:

- spearfishing in Mexico and the Caribbean
- dragging a "meat line" - 200# test monofilament with a wire leader +
tuna feather when offshore
- crabbing in B.C.
- lots of donations from commercial fisherman
- trading/buying from local fisherman
- harvesting mussels/oysters in B.C.

- going for prawns in BC is a bit more work because they like waters
400' deep

We eat well :)

Evan Gatehouse

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Evan Gatehouse wrote:
[snip]
We've used the following:

- spearfishing in Mexico and the Caribbean
- dragging a "meat line" - 200# test monofilament with a wire leader +
tuna feather when offshore
- crabbing in B.C.
- lots of donations from commercial fisherman
- trading/buying from local fisherman
- harvesting mussels/oysters in B.C.

- going for prawns in BC is a bit more work because they like waters
400' deep

We eat well :)

Evan Gatehouse

thanks everyone for the book and magazine suggestions, i'll check into
it.

evan, how successful are you when you drag the line, i'm curious about
it. i mean, do you get a fish a week doing that, one a day, one an
hour, how does it work out most of the time ? can you dependably catch
something to eat ? what size/type of a fish do you typically catch on
a drag line like this ?

i'd like to try spearfishing. i have some material i read about it but
i've never done it. i have all the gear though, except for the actual
speargun. i am not a very good free diver because i haven't really
worked out the whole ear equalization thing yet, but i've gone to the
pool a few times with my mask and snorkle and things and tried to get
past it. i recently got a weight belt too and have been learning to
use it. i only recently learned to "pre-equalize" by pushing air into
my ears before i dive and that has helped me a lot. i don't know why i
have so much trouble with it, but i do, it's embarrassing really! i
have trouble getting past about 10 feet, but even 10 foot depths are
better than before. before i learned what little equalization i can do
now i couldn't get past about 6 feet without my eardrums feeling like
they were going to explode. anyway, my little equalization trouble
aside, once i get past that i'd really like to do some freediving and
spearfishing. i understand that some people even do this in the deep
blue water fishing for things like yellowfin tuna, giant monster sized
fishes, but even if i was able i don't know that i'd ever try that ..
it's the monster sized white sharks that go along with them that worry
me! but i'd definitely spearfish along a reef.

i've never harvested oysters/mussels before. it sounds like you just
wait until low tide, walk out to where they are, and pry them off the
rocks. is that how you do it, or do you have some other method for
collecting them ? are they hard to find ?

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...
- going for prawns in BC is a bit more work because they like waters
400' deep

We eat well :)

Evan Gatehouse


The coonstripe (dock) shrimp are smaller but tastier (IMHO) than the deep
water spot shrimp and can be had much shallower.
The problem I see is hauling the pots around around. They take up a lot of
room.
Dungeness crab, on the other hand, can be scooped up with a fish net in
shallow waters.
Gordon

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

purple_stars wrote:

i'd like to try spearfishing. i have some material i read about it but
i've never done it. i have all the gear though, except for the actual
speargun. i am not a very good free diver because i haven't really
worked out the whole ear equalization thing yet, but i've gone to the
pool a few times with my mask and snorkle and things and tried to get
past it. i recently got a weight belt too and have been learning to
use it. i only recently learned to "pre-equalize" by pushing air into
my ears before i dive and that has helped me a lot. i don't know why i
have so much trouble with it, but i do, it's embarrassing really! i
have trouble getting past about 10 feet, but even 10 foot depths are
better than before. before i learned what little equalization i can do
now i couldn't get past about 6 feet without my eardrums feeling like
they were going to explode.

Be very careful about equalization. If your ears hurt do _not_ force
it by going lower... or higher ... until you can equalize the pressure.

Google "barotrauma" and learn about how you can damage your ears with
overpressure.

As I write this I can hear the constant squeal of tinnitus which never
goes away. It is due to an aborted scuba dive in about 12' of water--
and I was lucky. AT least I can still hear.

Don W.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 01:09:35 -0800, purple_stars wrote:

i'm curious what gear and methods and such you use for fishing on your
cruising boat, and also for shrimping, crabbing, collecting clams, etc,
basically getting dinner on the table! i've been reading some about it
and am just curious what you all do on your own boats, how much success
you have, etc. do you routinely catch fish ? what kind ? what's your
secret ? do you ever catch squid ?

and i apologize that i keep starting so many discussion threads
recently, but i'm really curious. lol. and it's interesting to hear what
you are all doing on your boats.

here are a few articles i found online on this subject ...

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=matthe1012
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...leid=suelar007
http://www.sailnet.com/sailing/96/tecjul96.htm
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/c...eid=sailne0842

all of those are sailnet articles, just worked out that way!

Of course this depends on where you are and what kind of sea life is
about. Where are you cruising?

Matt O.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:14:15 GMT, Don W
said:


Be very careful about equalization. If your ears hurt do _not_ force
it by going lower... or higher ... until you can equalize the pressure.


Not quite right as to the ascending part. Because of the way your Eustachian
tube is laid out in relation to the ears and throat it's next to impossible
to damage the ear drums as a result of ascending. Picture what happens when
you release the stem of a filled balloon. Now consider the Eustachian tube's
exit to the throat like the stem of the balloon.

Dave,

I can't argue with what you write about the Eustachian tube, because
I just don't know. I'm not an ear specialist, nor do I play one on
TV. I am, however, trained as a technical diver and remember being
trained (and experiencing) that it is necessary to equalize both
descending and ascending. If one or both ears is blocked, and the
pressure difference is enough, a barotrauma or possibly a ruptured
eardrum is the result.

Also, think about it. If what you said is true then people would
not need to equalize during ascent on an airplane. As a pilot I
can tell you that people do very much need to equalize during ascent
in an unpressurized airplane and that if a person does not know how
to equalize a very painful experience is the result.

?????

Don W.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

evan, how successful are you when you drag the line, i'm curious about
it. i mean, do you get a fish a week doing that, one a day, one an
hour, how does it work out most of the time ? can you dependably catch
something to eat ? what size/type of a fish do you typically catch on
a drag line like this ?

I'd say 1-2 fish a week is pretty typical. Varies tremendously with
the area we were in. Fish size is proportional to lure size. If you
drag a 12" lure, you're going for something too big! Something about
4" long worked well, catching say 10 lb fish like Dorado, tuna, etc.

i'd like to try spearfishing. i have some material i read about it but
i've never done it. i have all the gear though, except for the actual
speargun. i am not a very good free diver because i haven't really
worked out the whole ear equalization thing yet, but i've gone to the
pool a few times with my mask and snorkle and things and tried to get
past it.

(a) lots of practice during cruising makes perfect. I got so that I
could go down to 30' and just slowly cruise around for about a minute.
45' was the most I went down. Good long fins help enormously. THey
rocket you downward.

(b) equalize lots as you decend. If you wait too long, it gets
hard/impossible. Equalize more in the first 15' or so. (like 2-3 times)

aside, once i get past that i'd really like to do some freediving and
spearfishing. i understand that some people even do this in the deep
blue water fishing for things like yellowfin tuna, giant monster sized
fishes, but even if i was able i don't know that i'd ever try that ..

Yeah, I don't get that. I spearfish for food so a typical little 2-3
lb reef fish for supper is perfect for me.

i've never harvested oysters/mussels before. it sounds like you just
wait until low tide, walk out to where they are, and pry them off the
rocks. is that how you do it, or do you have some other method for
collecting them ? are they hard to find ?

Yes, in short. Mussels like vertical pilings too but I wouldn't pick
them in a harbour. These are cold water creatures so you won't find
them in the tropics.

Evan Gatehouse

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Gordon wrote:
"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...

- going for prawns in BC is a bit more work because they like waters
400' deep

We eat well :)

Evan Gatehouse



The coonstripe (dock) shrimp are smaller but tastier (IMHO) than the deep
water spot shrimp and can be had much shallower.
The problem I see is hauling the pots around around. They take up a lot of
room.
Dungeness crab, on the other hand, can be scooped up with a fish net in
shallow waters.
Gordon


We go to a place in the Gulf Islands that are teeming with giant red
rock crab. These are some of the biggest rock crab that I have seen.
Kids we take sailing go wading in waist deep water and catch a dozen
in 1/2 an hour. The red rock crab has a very sturdy shell compared to
the Dungeness and isn't really commercially caught, but they are super
tasty.

Collapsible crab traps aint' that big. Be sure to get a round one.

Evan Gatehouse

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Well, I guess experiences vary with the individual. My main
point was that if the poster (purple stars) was experiencing
pain trying to free-dive he should be very careful and learn
to equalize the pressure or he would get to learn about
barotrauma from a medical specialist ;-) The time I think
I hurt my ears I was in about 12 feet of water at Stingray
City in Grand Cayman. It was a long time ago, but the
tinnitus is with me still sigh.

PS - I agree with you that its much easier to equalize ascending
rather than descending.

Don W.

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 23:35:10 GMT, Don W
said:


I am, however, trained as a technical diver and remember being
trained (and experiencing) that it is necessary to equalize both
descending and ascending.


I went through the NSDS training and spent several years as a diver,
including SCUBA, Jack Brown, regular hard hat and helium hard hat. Also
spent some time as diving officer and have many hours going both up and down
in a recompression chamber. Both my experience and training tell me that on
ascent the ears clear themselves well before experiencing pain, because the
pressure in the inner ear exceeds that in the throat, and absent something
extremely unusual (which I've never seen) that pressure gets relieved very
much as in my balloon illustration. On the way down, on the other hand, the
pressure buildup tends to close the Eustachian tubes at the entrance to the
throat because the intersection with the throat is very much like the
"duckbill" valve in a marine head. So if you don't know how to open up that
duckbill valve you get low pressure in the inner ear compared to the greater
external pressure on the ear drum.

If a diver's tubes are clogged, he knows it on the way down.


If one or both ears is blocked, and the
pressure difference is enough, a barotrauma or possibly a ruptured
eardrum is the result.

Also, think about it. If what you said is true then people would
not need to equalize during ascent on an airplane. As a pilot I
can tell you that people do very much need to equalize during ascent
in an unpressurized airplane and that if a person does not know how
to equalize a very painful experience is the result.


Again, on the ascent the clearing virtually always occurs automatically well
before the threshold of pain is reached. Whether he knows how to equalize or
not, his ears "pop" when the pressure differential between the throat and
the inner ear is sufficient, because he inner ear is like the inside of that
balloon. I suppose one could get some slight buildup on the ascent if he has
very inflamed tubes. But note that the aircraft situation is the reverse of
diving in that the external pressure is decreasing first, as you ascend, and
increasing as you descend, creating the possibility of having a problem on
the way down when there wasn't a problem on the way up.

Take your kids flying in a small plane sometime when they have a head
cold. Then see if they automatically equalize on the ascent ;-)

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Don W wrote:
Well, I guess experiences vary with the individual. My main
point was that if the poster (purple stars) was experiencing
pain trying to free-dive he should be very careful and learn
to equalize the pressure or he would get to learn about
barotrauma from a medical specialist ;-) The time I think
I hurt my ears I was in about 12 feet of water at Stingray
City in Grand Cayman. It was a long time ago, but the
tinnitus is with me still sigh.

PS - I agree with you that its much easier to equalize ascending
rather than descending.

Don W.

hi folks, thanks for all the great advice and thoughts!

yes i never force it when it involves my ears. as soon as my ears
start to hurt i stop and don't go any further, i couldn't work through
the pain even if i wanted to because it kind of freaks me out. i
really don't know what the problem is. maybe if i say more about it
you folks will know and maybe have some thoughts or suggestions.

it started out i couldn't equalize at all. i could sort of move my jaw
and have my ears pop on their own, but it just never occured to me in
all my years being a human being on the earth to force air in when i
did it. i guess i was told somewhere along the line that doing that
was a bad thing, because i was very reluctant to do it. i felt i was
going to blow my eardrums out or something. if i was going up in an
airplane i would yawn and things to "pop" my ears, which sometimes
worked and sometimes didn't, but if anyone told me to hold my nose and
force air in i would decline .. and in my mind i'd be thinking .. what,
are you freaking crazy or something, you'll screw up your ears doing
that.

so when learning i started small. i would open the tubes by moving my
jaw and sort of breathing out, and i could hear the air in my ears
going over/into the tubes. then i put my fingers over my nostrils and
with a lot of practice started pushing air into my ears. but it really
freaked me out because i was still afraid i might hurt my ears. there
wasn't any pain though, just some pressure, so maybe it is ok to do
that.

i had some problem with my right ear opening easilly but not my left.
i started to fear something was wrong with one of the tubes. but after
much practice and moving my jaw around in all kinds of weird positions
i figured out over a period of weeks that it was actually just some
sort of habit i had all these years, sort of like cracking your
knuckles or something, that was the problem. it just so happens that
all these years, i had been opening the tubes on the right and could do
it easilly but just hadn't done the same thing on the left side. so
with some practice i got past that and both tubes open just fine now.

but i'm still unpracticed and reluctant about putting a lot of pressure
into my ears. i pre-equalize at the surface and that gets me maybe 5
or 6 feet down. maybe it's possible to force higher pressure into your
ears to start with ... i don't know, i've been very reluctant to try
it, it makes me uncomfortable. so instead i guess i've been trying to
go down a little ways and then try it at depth. but it's not much
different, even getting down towards 6 or 8 feet it still freaks me
out, and it still feels like i'm blowing up my eardrums like a balloon.
i don't know if that feeling ever goes away and returns to a "normal"
feeling when the pressure is equalized at a certain depth or not.
maybe the only two options are pain (not enough) or balloon (too much
or just right). maybe by it's very nature it's just supposed to feel
weird, i don't know.

so i may just be being held back by my own sensitivity with my ears. i
know pain is bad, so i never do that ... i won't go past pain. if it
hurts, i either stop going down (rarely) or sort of freak out and
immediately surface (usually).

i have not had any pain surfacing, only descending.

and since this is already too long a post for anybody to bother reading
all the way through, i might as well ask a question too! haha.
question is ... when you do get good at equalization and get down to
like 30 feet or 40 feet or something, what happens if you accidentally
let your ears "pop". what i mean is, i understand that you have to
force air into your ears to keep from experiencing pain. sort of like
positive pressure inside. but what happens if you accidentally swallow
and all that pressure goes back into your throat, doesn't it go back to
the same pressure it was at the surface, won't it suddenly be like you
had never equalized at all ? or does it just let the ballooned air out
enough to be equalized with whatever depth you are at ?

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

question is ... when you do get good at equalization and get down to
like 30 feet or 40 feet or something, what happens if you accidentally
let your ears "pop".

That is the whole idea. You should think of yourself as a sponge where
the inside pressure is equal to the outside pressure. Hence the term
"equalizing your ears." You may have to use two fingers to pinch
your nose closed and blow to force air into the area to equal the water
pressure pushing against your ear drum. Equalizing... do it early and
do it often. Once you get past the first atmosphere it gets easier.

what i mean is, i understand that you have to
force air into your ears to keep from experiencing pain. sort of like
positive pressure inside. but what happens if you accidentally swallow
and all that pressure goes back into your throat, doesn't it go back to
the same pressure it was at the surface, won't it suddenly be like you
had never equalized at all ? or does it just let the ballooned air out
enough to be equalized with whatever depth you are at ?

Go to a used bookstore and buy an old 10 buck SCUBA book. Your
questions suggest a need for some basic diving physics and physiology.
Besides, if your not sure of the "forces" that govern humans under
pressure you may be better served paddling on the surface.

Read and learn.... and then enjoy the water. You'll have a much
better and safer time armed with some information.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
[snip]
Equalization always relates only to the difference in pressure between the
depth where you last equalized and the depth you're at. Surface pressure has
nothing to do with it at all.

see that's what i was confused about. i thought that the pressure in
my throat was zero feet surface pressure no matter what depth i was at,
and that i had to constantly maintain higher pressure in my ears than
what was in my throat to counter-act the water pressure. and if i
accidentally opened the tubes at let's say 50 feet without "pushing"
air into my ears that they might suddenly "loose pressure" back into my
throat and be back at surface pressure. frightening thought!

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Don W wrote:
Well, I guess experiences vary with the individual. My main
point was that if the poster (purple stars) was experiencing
pain trying to free-dive he should be very careful and learn
to equalize the pressure or he would get to learn about
barotrauma from a medical specialist ;-) The time I think
I hurt my ears I was in about 12 feet of water at Stingray
City in Grand Cayman. It was a long time ago, but the
tinnitus is with me still sigh.

PS - I agree with you that its much easier to equalize ascending
rather than descending.

Don W.

My experience is different. When free diving you can't equalize because
you don't have an air feed at ambient pressure. (Your last breath was at
the surface) Unless I am not understanding the term "free diving" which
I believe means diving without tanks. I that case the air inside your
body gets compressed as you descend and you can't equalize by taking in
more air.

Gary

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
On 23 Feb 2006 12:45:49 -0800, "purple_stars" said:


when you do get good at equalization and get down to
like 30 feet or 40 feet or something, what happens if you accidentally
let your ears "pop". what i mean is, i understand that you have to
force air into your ears to keep from experiencing pain. sort of like
positive pressure inside.


Once you can control the muscles, you aren't really forcing air anywhere.
You're just opening up the passages so the air can pass through. Experienced
hardhat divers are almost constantly equalizing on the way down, so they
never experience what you call a "pop."


but what happens if you accidentally swallow
and all that pressure goes back into your throat, doesn't it go back to
the same pressure it was at the surface, won't it suddenly be like you
had never equalized at all ? or does it just let the ballooned air out
enough to be equalized with whatever depth you are at ?


Equalization always relates only to the difference in pressure between the
depth where you last equalized and the depth you're at. Surface pressure has
nothing to do with it at all.
I think one of you is talking with air (hard hat/scuba)and the other is
talking about holding your breath (free diving).

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
On 23 Feb 2006 13:07:07 -0800, "Bob" said:


Once you get past the first atmosphere it gets easier.


Yes. Going from 1 atmosphere to 2 is doubling the pressure. Going from 2 to
3 is increasing the pressure by just half.

1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi
2 atmospheres = 29.4 psi
3 atmospheres = 44.1 psi

The pressure increase is exactly the same for every atmosphere of depth.

Gary

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

My experience is different. When free diving you can't equalize because
you don't have an air feed at ambient pressure. (Your last breath was at
the surface) Unless I am not understanding the term "free diving" which
I believe means diving without tanks. I that case the air inside your
body gets compressed as you descend and you can't equalize by taking in
more air.

Gary

Hi Gary:
Hope I can add a bit of clairity.......... when decending at 75 fps:

Using sport SCUBA
Using "hard hat" either open simi or closed demand or a free flow pot.
Using nothing but your skin (freediving).

To equalize/clear ears need to have the inside preasure abot the same
as water preasure pushing on ear drum. How to do that? With iincreasig
preasure from decent use muscles to force a presure increase. As decent
continues so does presure. And will need to eqalize ears to new and
increasing water preasure. ANalogy wold be to squeeze a balloon with
hands.
Bob

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

When free diving you can't equalize because
you don't have an air feed at ambient pressure.

Of course you do. Every bit of air inside you
(except for that in the unequalized middle ear)
is at ambient pressure.

Chris

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Bob wrote:

My experience is different. When free diving you can't equalize because
you don't have an air feed at ambient pressure. (Your last breath was at
the surface) Unless I am not understanding the term "free diving" which
I believe means diving without tanks. I that case the air inside your
body gets compressed as you descend and you can't equalize by taking in
more air.

Gary


Hi Gary:
Hope I can add a bit of clairity.......... when decending at 75 fps:

Using sport SCUBA
Using "hard hat" either open simi or closed demand or a free flow pot.
Using nothing but your skin (freediving).

To equalize/clear ears need to have the inside preasure abot the same
as water preasure pushing on ear drum. How to do that? With iincreasig
preasure from decent use muscles to force a presure increase. As decent
continues so does presure. And will need to eqalize ears to new and
increasing water preasure. ANalogy wold be to squeeze a balloon with
hands.
Bob

Bob,
I understand all that. I have had a diving licence for 26 years. What
I am saying is you can't equalize when freediving . You can't increase
the volume of air inside your ears to the ambient pressure level when
you took your last breath at the surface (well maybe a tiny bit).

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Chris wrote:
When free diving you can't equalize because
you don't have an air feed at ambient pressure.


Of course you do. Every bit of air inside you
(except for that in the unequalized middle ear)
is at ambient pressure.

Chris

You are right but it is decreasing in volume as your body is compressed.
Equalizing is normally understood to be taking new air in at ambient
pressure to equalize in your ears and lungs etc. That is why you
shouldn't hold your breath ascending after breathing pressurized air.
You'll embolize.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:39:46 GMT, Gary said:


My experience is different. When free diving you can't equalize because
you don't have an air feed at ambient pressure. (Your last breath was at
the surface) Unless I am not understanding the term "free diving" which
I believe means diving without tanks. I that case the air inside your
body gets compressed as you descend and you can't equalize by taking in
more air.


You are misunderstanding. An ear squeeze is caused, not by the difference in
pressure between surface pressure and inner ear pressure, but by low
pressure in the inner ear (which may or may not equal what the pressure was
at the surface) compared to the pressure being exerted by the water pressing
on ear drum from the outside. Since your Eustachian tubes where they join
the throat are flat like the opening of a balloon, the increased air
pressure in your throat doesn't get passed through to the inner ear,
creating a relative vacuum, so the ear drum gets "sucked in". Equalizing
consists, not of adding air from the surface, but of opening the path from
your inner ear to your throat (where the air is, as you say, compressed), so
the higher pressure air there can get into the inner ear and eliminate the
relative vacuum.
I understand clearly. What I am saying is that you can't equalize your
internal air pressure without breathing air a ambient pressure except at
very shallow depths. You need to take in air at the ambient pressure to
equalize properly.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:51:49 GMT, Gary said:


Yes. Going from 1 atmosphere to 2 is doubling the pressure. Going from 2 to
3 is increasing the pressure by just half.

1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi
2 atmospheres = 29.4 psi
3 atmospheres = 44.1 psi

The pressure increase is exactly the same for every atmosphere of depth.


Proving my point. 29.4 psi=200% of 14.7 psi. 44.2 psi=150% of 29.4 psi. When
we're talking the effect of pressure increases in the ear drum, it's the
percentage increase that's significant, not the absolute increase. Going
from the surface to 10' you'll notice a big increase. Going from 150' to
160' you probably wouldn't even detect the difference.
Point taken. The perception of changes in pressure is less at great
depths but the pressure change is the same.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

"Gary" wrote in message
news:EKwLf.66510$H%4.31397@pd7tw2no...
Dave wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:39:46 GMT, Gary
said:


My experience is different. When free diving you can't
equalize because you don't have an air feed at ambient
pressure. (Your last breath was at the surface) Unless I am
not understanding the term "free diving" which I believe means
diving without tanks. I that case the air inside your body
gets compressed as you descend and you can't equalize by taking
in more air.


You are misunderstanding. An ear squeeze is caused, not by the
difference in
pressure between surface pressure and inner ear pressure, but
by low
pressure in the inner ear (which may or may not equal what the
pressure was
at the surface) compared to the pressure being exerted by the
water pressing
on ear drum from the outside. Since your Eustachian tubes where
they join
the throat are flat like the opening of a balloon, the
increased air
pressure in your throat doesn't get passed through to the inner
ear,
creating a relative vacuum, so the ear drum gets "sucked in".
Equalizing
consists, not of adding air from the surface, but of opening
the path from
your inner ear to your throat (where the air is, as you say,
compressed), so
the higher pressure air there can get into the inner ear and
eliminate the
relative vacuum.
I understand clearly. What I am saying is that you can't
equalize your internal air pressure without breathing air a
ambient pressure except at very shallow depths. You need to
take in air at the ambient pressure to equalize properly.

You've forgotten that your whole body is compressed at depth, such
that lung pressure is the same as the ambient pressure (give or
take an inch). Thus you can always equalise from lung/throat/
eustachian air. Otherwise all free divers going below 10 metres of
so would be deaf!

JimB

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

The air in your middle ear is also at ambient pressure. It is
uncomfortable because to get to ambient pressure your eardrum has to
squeeze in. It is still at ambiet pressure. The discomfort is relieved
when you put more volume of air into the inner ear to remove the
stetching of the eardrum.

Wrong: If there is discomfort due to a squeezed eardrum, then the
pressure in the middle ear is _slightly_ above or below ambient.
The discomfort/pain you feel is measuring that pressure gradient.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

You are right but it is decreasing in volume as your body is compressed.
Air is compressed, never your body. That's how you survive skin diving.

Equalizing is normally understood to be taking new air in at ambient
pressure to equalize in your ears and lungs etc.
No. Equalizing is shifting a fraction of a ml of air into our out of
your middle ear, all within you, no brearthing (in or out) required.

That is why you
shouldn't hold your breath ascending after breathing pressurized air.
Completely different story.

You'll embolize.
Yet another story.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Equalization is keeping the air in your middle ear at about the
same pressure/volume as the other air inside you and the water
around you.

As you go deeper, you will need to 'pump' minimal amounts of
air into your middle ear by the process you describe as pre-equalizing.

Keep doing it while going down as soon as your ears tell you to.
Pre-equalizing all at once for a deeper skin dive would hurt quite a
bit.

On the way up, the extra air expands and needs to get out of your
middle ear. It usually goes all by itself, you just feel a slight
pressure
and kear a slight clicking noise.

If you feel pain on the way up, try going back down a bit or to at
least
stay level, and swallow several times, yawn, or wiggle your jaw to help

the air out.

If you still experience problems after a bit of practice, you can try
hot Thai food, decongestants, or an ENT specialist. Don't force it,
a small congestion in the Eustachian tube can easily be stronger
than an eardrum.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 05:20:26 GMT, Gary said:


You are right but it is decreasing in volume as your body is compressed.
Equalizing is normally understood to be taking new air in at ambient
pressure to equalize in your ears and lungs etc.


Here's where you're getting confused, Gary: it isn't "taking in" air that's
significant. It's opening the passage between areas with two different
pressures so that air can flow from the high pressure area to the low
pressure area. The high pressure area is your throat. The low pressure area
is your ear. If you open the passage between the two, they will reach equal
pressure.
Explain to me how the air in the throat got pressurized.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:25:35 -0800, Evan Gatehouse wrote:

We go to a place in the Gulf Islands that are teeming with giant red
rock crab. These are some of the biggest rock crab that I have seen.
Kids we take sailing go wading in waist deep water and catch a dozen
in 1/2 an hour. The red rock crab has a very sturdy shell compared to
the Dungeness and isn't really commercially caught, but they are super
tasty.

I agree. They're usually a lot smaller and with harder shells so they're
more work to eat, but I think they actually taste better than Dungeoness.

I found nice big ones in, um, not telling... and teeming is the word!

Matt O.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:44:21 GMT, Gary said:


Your body is predominately made of water. Water is almost entirely
non-compressible. That means that the pressure exerted by the sea is
transmitted through all of the non-compressible parts of your body to your
lungs and throat, which contain air that is compressible. So as you descend,
all of the air in your body gets compressed to the outside pressure.



So you are trying to convince me that me chest compresses enough to make
the air in my lungs double in pressure and I don't feel it. I only feel
the same thing happening in my ears? Your saying that the 6 litres of
air in my lungs is compressed down to three litres at 33 feet (making it
ambient pressure) and then I can somehow force it into my ears to equalize?

Right.


I guess you either didn't read, didn't comprehend, or didn't want to quote
the paragraph that followed the one you quoted. (See the part about the
diaphragm)

Frankly, I don't care whether you want to believe what I'm telling you or
not. Hell, I only had undergraduate minors in physics and math, not a major,
before going to the Navy's diving school.
I just spent a little time researching freediving. You are right.
Expert freedivers can force air into their ears to relieve the pressure
as they descend. It is what limits them from greater descents but they
can force what little air they have (at depth) into their ears to
relieve the pressure...... somewhat.

You win.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Gary wrote:
[snip]
I just spent a little time researching freediving. You are right.
Expert freedivers can force air into their ears to relieve the pressure
as they descend. It is what limits them from greater descents but they
can force what little air they have (at depth) into their ears to
relieve the pressure...... somewhat.

You win.

we all win, i learned a lot :)

i have a few freediving books here that are terrific. one especially
that stands out because of the photos and just sheer lunacy is
"bluewater hunter and freediving" by terry maas. these are folks, i
kid you not ... who go out into the middle of the giant ocean, put on
wetsuits, grab their spear guns, and go freediving for hours at a time.
their goal ? to shoot giant fish even bigger than they are while at
the same time not getting eaten by sharks. and yeah, sometimes they
fail and get eaten by sharks!!! there are white sharks there! they
are in competition for the same food! apparently it's not that unusual
to shoot a fish and have sharks eat it before you can even get it on
board! lol. just crazy. beautiful book, highly recommend it.

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

purple_stars wrote:

i have a few freediving books here that are terrific. one especially
that stands out because of the photos and just sheer lunacy is
"bluewater hunter and freediving" by terry maas. these are folks, i
kid you not ... who go out into the middle of the giant ocean, put on
wetsuits, grab their spear guns, and go freediving for hours at a time.
their goal ? to shoot giant fish even bigger than they are while at
the same time not getting eaten by sharks. and yeah, sometimes they
fail and get eaten by sharks!!! there are white sharks there! they
are in competition for the same food! apparently it's not that unusual
to shoot a fish and have sharks eat it before you can even get it on
board! lol. just crazy. beautiful book, highly recommend it.

Hey Stars:

Seem like I remember some old coote about 80 years old who was
freedinving off the SE coast. Something like 10-20 miles offshore? His
boat drifted off and he survived 1-2 days till rescued. Any body
remember that? Freediving the highseas at 80? Can't be that hard if he
was doing it. I wonder if he had a problem clearing/eqalizing his
ears.
Bob

PS Did you ever live in Southern Oregon?

fishing/shrimping, etc, while cruising
 

Both, freediving and SCUBA.