Great Lakes Question
 

This is a way off, maybe, plan. BUT:

Have any of you experienced cruisers taken a boat [sail, of course] from
Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean? And not by truck! On the water, in
the boat, sailing ............ from Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean.

I might be, maybe, someday .... do this. I was looking at a map of the
region today [ I don't have any charts, yet ].

From what I can gather.... I go up Lake Michigan to the Straits of
Mackinac, south once I am on Lake Huron, to Lake St Clair, Detroit River,
into Lake Erie. I figure there are canals, locks, etc but as I said I don't
have any charts.

Ok,, now I am on Lake Erie. I go east. Take the Welland Canal to Lake
Ontario... am I good to go so far?

Once on Lake Ontario .... what is the best route? Tell me about the St
Lawrence Seaway. I see that the St Lawrence river goes northeast toward
Montreal and then on to the Atlantic. There shipping channels, locks et all
as you sail this route, is it hard in a small sailboat? Is it difficult to
navigate? What about the big ships?

Or, is it better to take the NY canal.

Anyway,, it sure looks like an adventure.

If any of you have done it,,, post your story.

I am interested.

Thanks,,

Jasper

Great Lakes Question
 

I haven't done it, however PBO had an article about the canals in NY a
few years ago. There are many bridges that require the mast to be
lowered meaning you need to motor (it's also obviously a bit narrow to
sail) A lot of the seaways have rules requiring boats to be under power
(I think the St Lawrence (sp) Seaway has rules like that - will get you
into lake Ontario)..

Jasper Windvane wrote:
This is a way off, maybe, plan. BUT:

Have any of you experienced cruisers taken a boat [sail, of course] from
Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean? And not by truck! On the water, in
the boat, sailing ............ from Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean.

I might be, maybe, someday .... do this. I was looking at a map of the
region today [ I don't have any charts, yet ].

From what I can gather.... I go up Lake Michigan to the Straits of
Mackinac, south once I am on Lake Huron, to Lake St Clair, Detroit River,
into Lake Erie. I figure there are canals, locks, etc but as I said I don't
have any charts.

Ok,, now I am on Lake Erie. I go east. Take the Welland Canal to Lake
Ontario... am I good to go so far?

Once on Lake Ontario .... what is the best route? Tell me about the St
Lawrence Seaway. I see that the St Lawrence river goes northeast toward
Montreal and then on to the Atlantic. There shipping channels, locks et all
as you sail this route, is it hard in a small sailboat? Is it difficult to
navigate? What about the big ships?

Or, is it better to take the NY canal.

Anyway,, it sure looks like an adventure.

If any of you have done it,,, post your story.

I am interested.

Thanks,,

Jasper

Great Lakes Question
 

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:10:36 GMT, "Jasper Windvane"
wrote:

This is a way off, maybe, plan. BUT:

Have any of you experienced cruisers taken a boat [sail, of course] from
Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean? And not by truck! On the water, in
the boat, sailing ............ from Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean.

I've done part of the trip and know quite a bit about the rest. The
only way to do the entire trip with your mast up is to follow the
freighter route - through the Welland Canal to Lake Ontario and out to
the Atlantic via the St Lawrence River and Seaway. Should be no
problem for any reasonably sized mast under 100 feet or so. This
route is well over 1,000 miles out of the way of course.

I might be, maybe, someday .... do this. I was looking at a map of the
region today [ I don't have any charts, yet ].

Charts are a really good place to start. Try to get some freebie
electronic charts for your PC. It's a great way to do trip planning.

From what I can gather.... I go up Lake Michigan to the Straits of
Mackinac, south once I am on Lake Huron, to Lake St Clair, Detroit River,
into Lake Erie. I figure there are canals, locks, etc but as I said I don't
have any charts.

Ok,, now I am on Lake Erie. I go east. Take the Welland Canal to Lake
Ontario... am I good to go so far?

That's the only way with your mast still up.


Once on Lake Ontario .... what is the best route?

Shortest route to the Atlantic, by far, is to exit Lake O at Oswego
into the NYS Barge Canal system. You must unstep the mast there.

Tell me about the St
Lawrence Seaway. I see that the St Lawrence river goes northeast toward
Montreal and then on to the Atlantic.

It does, but it is a loooong way out and around, through some very
cold and foggy water. Have you ever sailed in fog so thick you can
barely see your own bow? Get used to it.

There shipping channels, locks et all
as you sail this route, is it hard in a small sailboat? Is it difficult to
navigate? What about the big ships?

You will do a lot of motoring, trust me on that one, and the big ships
have the right of way at all times. The locks are not difficult nor
all that expensive. Pay cash with Canadian money at each lock.
Navigation is not particulary difficult but there is a lot of fog in
the eastern St Lawrence. I'd consider a good RADAR and chart plotter
to be mandatory, others may disagree.

Or, is it better to take the NY canal.

That's the logical choice for most folks. Unstep your mast at Oswego,
NY and restep at Troy, north of Albany. Sail or motor down the
Hudson River to NY Harbor. THAT is an adventure you will never
forget.

Anyway,, it sure looks like an adventure.

If any of you have done it,,, post your story.

Many have done all or part of the trip. Do some searching around on
Google and you'll find a lot of info.

I am interested.

Get some charts, then you are interested.


Thanks,,

Jasper

Great Lakes Question
 

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:10:36 GMT, "Jasper Windvane"
wrote:


This is a way off, maybe, plan. BUT:

Have any of you experienced cruisers taken a boat [sail, of course] from
Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean? And not by truck! On the water, in
the boat, sailing ............ from Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean.


One big advantage of taking the long route east on the St lawrence
is...you get to visit the Maritime Provinces.

Great Lakes Question
 

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:10:36 GMT, "Jasper Windvane"
wrote:

This is a way off, maybe, plan. BUT:

Have any of you experienced cruisers taken a boat [sail, of course] from
Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean? And not by truck! On the water, in
the boat, sailing ............ from Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean.


I shall be doing the trip later this year. A few of the things I've
learned:

1. If you are prepared in advance you can get your mast destepped and
stowed and be on the canals in 1 1/2 hours complete with a wooden
cradle for your mast. My surveyor has done this trip.

2. Its around 500 miles through the canals and rivers to NY.

3. Apparently you can't sail at night, although I'm not 100% sure of
this.

4. Free US raster charts are available for the whole of the NY canal
system, but you can't get free charts for the Canadian section of the
St Lawrence. I use OziExplorer to read the raster charts which can be
downloaded from NOAA web site.

5. The weather can be unpleasant in the St Lawrence area so be
prepared for fog and wind at the same time. This from Jimmy Cornell's
"World Cruising Routes" 5th edition, p 168:

"The area from Maine to Newfoundland is affected by fog, particularly
in the spring and summer. This is caused by a S or SW wind bringing
warm moist air over the sea, which is kept cool by the Labrador
Current. A careful lookout for the many fishing boats and lobster pots
in this area must be kept when visibility is poor. A northerly wind
tends to clear the fog. Also in spring and summer up to July, when
polar ice is breaking up, icebergs are sometimes carried south into
the area off Newfoundland. In spite of the danger of ice, even during
the summer months, it is possible to sail in these waters provided a
good lookout is kept both in the daytime and at night.

When sailing in poor visibility in Canadian waters, contact 'Traffic'
on channels 13, 14 or 21 to report your position course and speed, and
to receive information on any shipping in your vicinity. The US coast
and Nova Scotia are normally out of the iceberg zone."

Have fun
M

Great Lakes Question
 

Mitch,,, thanks for the info.. after doing some reading, I would do the
canals before the seaway.

Where or who do you contact about the mast stepping and de-stepping? What
is the cost? How much is it to trans the canal?

What equipment should the boat have to do the canal trip? Anything special?

Fender boards? Big bumpers?

Do you think a single hander can do the canal trip? What with the locks and
all...

If it is 500 miles ... that must take awhile. At 4 knots, and 10 hours per
day ... that is only 40 knots/miles ++ per day.

So .. 500 divide by 40 = = 12.5 days. Figure around 15 days to be safe.

I would rather take my time and do it without ruining the boat than be in a
hurry.

Where can I get more info about the canals?

Thanks,, again

===========================
"Mitch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:10:36 GMT, "Jasper Windvane"
wrote:

This is a way off, maybe, plan. BUT:

Have any of you experienced cruisers taken a boat [sail, of course] from
Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean? And not by truck! On the water, in
the boat, sailing ............ from Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean.


I shall be doing the trip later this year. A few of the things I've
learned:

1. If you are prepared in advance you can get your mast destepped and
stowed and be on the canals in 1 1/2 hours complete with a wooden
cradle for your mast. My surveyor has done this trip.

2. Its around 500 miles through the canals and rivers to NY.

3. Apparently you can't sail at night, although I'm not 100% sure of
this.

4. Free US raster charts are available for the whole of the NY canal
system, but you can't get free charts for the Canadian section of the
St Lawrence. I use OziExplorer to read the raster charts which can be
downloaded from NOAA web site.

5. The weather can be unpleasant in the St Lawrence area so be
prepared for fog and wind at the same time. This from Jimmy Cornell's
"World Cruising Routes" 5th edition, p 168:

"The area from Maine to Newfoundland is affected by fog, particularly
in the spring and summer. This is caused by a S or SW wind bringing
warm moist air over the sea, which is kept cool by the Labrador
Current. A careful lookout for the many fishing boats and lobster pots
in this area must be kept when visibility is poor. A northerly wind
tends to clear the fog. Also in spring and summer up to July, when
polar ice is breaking up, icebergs are sometimes carried south into
the area off Newfoundland. In spite of the danger of ice, even during
the summer months, it is possible to sail in these waters provided a
good lookout is kept both in the daytime and at night.

When sailing in poor visibility in Canadian waters, contact 'Traffic'
on channels 13, 14 or 21 to report your position course and speed, and
to receive information on any shipping in your vicinity. The US coast
and Nova Scotia are normally out of the iceberg zone."

Have fun
M

Great Lakes Question
 

Jeff,, thanks for the info.. I did make one call to someone up that way
about the Trent-Severn Canal. She said that there might not be enough water
for the draft of a sailboat. The boat draws 5'2".

If I am reading you right, what you recommend is to come down Lake Huron,
then east to the Trent-Severn. Get into Lake Ontario and cross. Then catch
the Erie Canal to Hudson River.

I will look up the Trent-Severn again. There was a number for a Canadian
Parks guy on one site.

What do you mean by the "small boat channel"? I have never been to Lake
Huron so I just looked at it on a regular map. It looks pretty big!

The Welland Canal.. That is the one near Detroit. I saw a picture and a big
ship was going through. What makes it so hard for recreational boats?

My alternative to all this is TRUCK. But, it might cost a fortune.

Thanks,, Thomas



'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...
I came from the Chesapeake to Lake Superior in a trawler this summer via
the Trent-Severn Canal, which I highly recommend. You'll have to step your
mast to get through the Erie Canal and the Trent-Severn and thus have to
motor across Lake Ontario from Oswego to Trent, but the scenery and people
are fantastic. The North Channel of Lake Huron is the best cruising in
North America, in my opinion, and I've done some of both coasts and Alaska.
The "small boat channel" is especially tricky and beautiful. I have heard
nothing but bad reports about doing the Welland canal in a recreational
boat.

You're crazy to try to singlehand anything in a canal, especially a
sailboat (the Welland requires three people, but I believe you can hire
them there). I would recommend at least six big fenders because you can
never count on which side you will be directed to lock through on, and
it's a bitch to change them at the last minute. We didn't use any
fenderboards and won't again this year.

Look up each canal on the 'net for further information.

Capt. Jeff

Great Lakes Question
 

I came from the Chesapeake to Lake Superior in a trawler this summer via
the Trent-Severn Canal, which I highly recommend. You'll have to step
your mast to get through the Erie Canal and the Trent-Severn and thus
have to motor across Lake Ontario from Oswego to Trent, but the scenery
and people are fantastic. The North Channel of Lake Huron is the best
cruising in North America, in my opinion, and I've done some of both
coasts and Alaska. The "small boat channel" is especially tricky and
beautiful. I have heard nothing but bad reports about doing the Welland
canal in a recreational boat.

You're crazy to try to singlehand anything in a canal, especially a
sailboat (the Welland requires three people, but I believe you can hire
them there). I would recommend at least six big fenders because you can
never count on which side you will be directed to lock through on, and
it's a bitch to change them at the last minute. We didn't use any
fenderboards and won't again this year.

Look up each canal on the 'net for further information.

Capt. Jeff

Great Lakes Question
 

Jeff,,, from what I have leaned so far; Lake Huron flows into Lake St
Clair by way of the St Clair river. After Lake St Clair there is another
river [ I am using a road map ] which looks like the Detroit River. That
flows into Lake Erie. After going east on Lake Erie all the way to near
Buffalo, then there is the Welland Canal. The Welland Canal connects Lake
Erie with Lake Ontario. Before this canal was built, the Trent Severn was
"the" canal.

The Trent Severn Canal looks really interesting. It goes from Port Severn,
Ontario which is the southeast shore of Georgian Bay all the way to Trenton,
Ontario which is on the Canadian side of Lake Ontario about directly across
from Oswego, NY.

This is "definitely" the route to follow if possible.

If you take the Trent Severn Canal you can bypass Lake Erie, Lake St Clair,
the Detroit River, and a big part of Lake Huron. Once you make it to Lake
Ontario you can go up the St Lawrence Seaway all the way to the Atlantic
ocean or cross Lake Ontario and take the Erie/NY State / Canal by way of the
Oswego Canal. This will take you all the way to the Hudson River.

I am going to look into the Trent Severn Canal. The boat has a 5'2" draft.
I don't know whether the canal is deep enough.

You would think that they would keep it to at least 6 plus feet.

More research.

Thomas





Of course, this was done in the late 1950's and 60's. It is part of the St
Lawrence Seaway ..

At the far eastern end of Lake Erie is Buffalo, NY.


"Tamaroak" wrote in message
. ..
The small boat channel goes along the top of Lake Huron and is a very
scenic route. Otherwise you can just shoot across the middle.

I'm thinking of the Canal that bypasses Niagra Falls and is used primarily
by big ships.

Capt. Jeff

Great Lakes Question
 

Capt Jeff ,, I did some more research. According to a Canadian web page the
depth of the Trent Severn Canal is 6-8 Feet.

The boat has a depth of 5'2".

More than enough I'd say.

I sent off an email for more info.

And I have a telephone number.

According to the web site, the Trent Severn is 241 miles long from Lake
Huron [ Georgian Bay ] to Lake Ontario at Trenton, Ontario

The web site said it should take 5-7 days to do the whole route.

What a trip! It sounds very interesting.

Thomas

======
"Tamaroak" wrote in message
. ..
The small boat channel goes along the top of Lake Huron and is a very
scenic route. Otherwise you can just shoot across the middle.

I'm thinking of the Canal that bypasses Niagra Falls and is used primarily
by big ships.

Capt. Jeff

Great Lakes Question
 

The small boat channel goes along the top of Lake Huron and is a very
scenic route. Otherwise you can just shoot across the middle.

I'm thinking of the Canal that bypasses Niagra Falls and is used
primarily by big ships.

Capt. Jeff

Great Lakes Question
 

Thomas Wentworth wrote:

The Welland Canal.. That is the one near Detroit.
Thomas,
Get yourself a map. The Welland Canal could be described as being quite
close to Buffalo, and even close to Toronto before it is described as
close to Detroit.

Great Lakes Question
 

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:45:23 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote:

I am going to look into the Trent Severn Canal. The boat has a 5'2" draft.
I don't know whether the canal is deep enough.

Anything over 4 or 5 feet (I forget which) requires advance written
approval by the canal authority, and a waiver on your part.

Great Lakes Question
 

Your right ,, I screwed up... I was looking at the map and not seeing
correctly.

Have you ever taken the canal? I see it goes from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario
and bypasses Niagra Falls, etc.

Is it a canal that recreational boats can use?

Tell me what you know.


==================
"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Thomas Wentworth wrote:

The Welland Canal.. That is the one near Detroit.
Thomas,
Get yourself a map. The Welland Canal could be described as being quite
close to Buffalo, and even close to Toronto before it is described as
close to Detroit.

Great Lakes Question
 

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Your right ,, I screwed up... I was looking at the map and not seeing
correctly.

Have you ever taken the canal? I see it goes from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario
and bypasses Niagra Falls, etc.

Is it a canal that recreational boats can use?

Tell me what you know.

Yes recreational boats can and do use the Welland Canal. There can be
issues just entering the canal at Pt. Colborne if the wind is up and SW.
Erie is shallow and not to be trifled with. During high traffic times
the dockmasters will require recreational boaters to convoy through
together. Each lock is approx. 800 feet in length and will raise or
lower --depending on your direction of travel-- your vessel
approximately 30-35'. Lowering the mast for sail is not required as the
bridges you pass will either be bailey or lift style. Long dock lines
and lots of fenders are the order of the day. Attention to the slimy
lock walls is required. Water motion in the lock can be a little
turbulent when ascending. Attention needs to be paid exiting the locks
when descending as millions of gallons of water exiting the lock can
create some interesting currents. The bottoms of the canal are muddy
and slope gently, shallowing up gradually in some sections. If you are
careless enough to get pushed into the shallows grounding would be
embarassing, not catastrophic. Transiting is an enjoyable adventure.
Exiting at Pt. Weller on a nice day will present you with the Toronto
skyline across the Lake. A hard starboard will see you over to Pt.
Weller Marina. Port side will be Pt. Dalhousie, a mile or two east.
Great little harbour that marks the exit point of the original Welland
Canal built in the early 1800's. Restaurants and bars provide nightlife
within stumbling distance of the docks.

Great Lakes Question
 

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:40:50 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote:

Have you ever taken the canal? I see it goes from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario
and bypasses Niagra Falls, etc.

Is it a canal that recreational boats can use?

Tell me what you know.

Tom, Google is your friend:

NYS Barge Canal System

http://www.canals.state.ny.us/

Their cruising guide is an excellent value and considered
indispensible by most.

The Erie Canal was built in the 1800s and no longer exists.

Great Lakes Question
 

Wayne.B wrote:
Anything over 4 or 5 feet (I forget which) requires advance
written approval by the canal authority, and a waiver on
your part.

According to http://www.cruising.ca/trent/

"Average width for Trent Severn Waterway is of 32 feet.
Minimum width occurs at Port Severn with 23' and Big Chute
at 24'. Maximum vertical clearance height for Trent Severn
Waterway is 22 feet"

Do you think I'll have trouble getting through in a catamaran
with a 21' beam and 3.5' draft ?

Great Lakes Question
 

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 23:10:33 GMT, wrote:

Do you think I'll have trouble getting through in a catamaran
with a 21' beam and 3.5' draft ?

Doesn't sound like it's a problem. There web sites are accurate in my
experience although I have not yet been through Trent-Svern, only the
Rideau.

Great Lakes Question
 

Wayne.B wrote:
wrote:

Do you think I'll have trouble getting through in a catamaran
with a 21' beam and 3.5' draft ?

Doesn't sound like it's a problem. There web sites are accurate
in my experience although I have not yet been through Trent-Svern,
only the Rideau.

Wouldn't it be a problem if there's another boat coming in the
opposite direction or there's a faster boat trying to pass me ?

Or do you think the given width is for the traffic in each
direction ?

Great Lakes Question
 

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:33:02 GMT, wrote:

Or do you think the given width is for the traffic in each
direction ?

Maximum width is almost always determined by the size of the smallest
lock, or in the case of the Trent-Svern, the haul-over bucket.
Oncoming traffic is a consideration but you should be able to manage
it by waiting or turning out at appropriate times.

Great Lakes Question
 

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:06:33 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote:

Mitch,,, thanks for the info.. after doing some reading, I would do the
canals before the seaway.

Where or who do you contact about the mast stepping and de-stepping? What
is the cost? How much is it to trans the canal?

You can get a pass that allows you to do the whole canal fro not a lot
of $'s. My contact says around 12 days for the canal. Steeping and
unsteeeping - there are boatyards at either end who are expereinced
and fast apparently - don't know the cost.

As it happens I'm going to a talk on Wednesday night by someone who
has used the canals - I'll report what I learn.

Great Lakes Question
 

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:25:07 -0500, in message

Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:10:36 GMT, "Jasper Windvane"
wrote:
Have any of you experienced cruisers taken a boat [sail, of course] from
Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean? And not by truck! On the water, in
the boat, sailing ............ from Lake Michigan to the Atlantic Ocean.

Last summer I went from Kingston ON up and around Manitoulin Island
and back down, covering a lot of the distance you're talking about.
I've also been down the St. Lawrence as far as Iroquois.

I've done part of the trip and know quite a bit about the rest. The
only way to do the entire trip with your mast up is to follow the
freighter route - through the Welland Canal to Lake Ontario and out to
the Atlantic via the St Lawrence River and Seaway. Should be no
problem for any reasonably sized mast under 100 feet or so. This
route is well over 1,000 miles out of the way of course.

It's 1000 miles that I find rather tempting, and I think you may be
underestimating... Yes, the fast way south is through Oswego, and even
the tall ship Bounty chose to go that way last year.

There shipping channels, locks et all
as you sail this route, is it hard in a small sailboat? Is it difficult to
navigate? What about the big ships?

You will do a lot of motoring, trust me on that one, and the big ships
have the right of way at all times.

It doesn't have to be a lot. It's about 12 hours down the rivers from
Sarnia to Lake Erie, and about the same in the Welland, and the rest
can be quite comfortable sailing in the prevailing westerlies. Don't
even think of beating down Lake Erie. Some of the narrow spots in the
upper St. Lawrence may have you powering up, but it is quite possible
sail from Kingston to Iroquois.

The locks are not difficult nor all that expensive.

CDN$160 total through the Welland. Going down is easy with two. Going
up is a little more difficult as the inrushing water can be quite
turbulent. We had three on board up-bound, and we were busy and worn
out by the end of the climb.

Pay cash with Canadian money at each lock.

New this year at the Welland: Pay by credit card at an automatic
machine at the check-in dock. I'm not sure about the St. Lawrence.

Enjoy the trip!

Ryk