How vacuum tight are ‘Y" valves?
 

I want to put in a Jabsco (Model 2675387) self priming Macerator pump
to empty the holding tank when I’m more than three miles out. Will
typical "Y" valves be tight enough under suction for the pump to draw
from the tank instead of pulling so much air into the line around the
"Y" valve seals that it just cavitates? Some seals work fine under
pressure but leak under suction.


The pump will only have to lift about 15 inches. It says it’s self
priming to 5’ when "wet" but my experience with getting pumps to prime
is that it doesn’t take much air leakage to result in major
frustration.

Any particular "Y" valve I should be looking for to avoid this as well
as minimize the possibility of its being an odor source?

--

Roger Long

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Roger:

Combraco bronze y valves are very tight. Other plastic bodied valves I would
wonder about.

David

How vacuum tight are ‘Y" valves?
 

Roger Long wrote:

I want to put in a Jabsco (Model 2675387) self priming Macerator pump
to empty the holding tank when I’m more than three miles out. Will
typical "Y" valves be tight enough under suction for the pump to draw
from the tank instead of pulling so much air into the line around the
"Y" valve seals that it just cavitates? Some seals work fine under
pressure but leak under suction.

That y'valve shouldn't be under suction, Roger...tank contents should be
being pushed over it. It goes between the pump and the thru-hull.

Any particular "Y" valve I should be looking for to avoid this as well
as minimize the possibility of its being an odor source?

I'd go with a Whale.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

How vacuum tight are ‘Y" valves?
 

Oh hell...you said y-valve, my brain read vented loop. Sorry...it's been
a long week.

Good quality y-valves don't leak, so you won't have any problem. Again,
go with Whale...avoid Jabsco, they DO leak.


Peggie



Roger Long wrote:

I want to put in a Jabsco (Model 2675387) self priming Macerator pump
to empty the holding tank when I’m more than three miles out. Will
typical "Y" valves be tight enough under suction for the pump to draw
from the tank instead of pulling so much air into the line around the
"Y" valve seals that it just cavitates? Some seals work fine under
pressure but leak under suction.


The pump will only have to lift about 15 inches. It says it’s self
priming to 5’ when "wet" but my experience with getting pumps to prime
is that it doesn’t take much air leakage to result in major
frustration.

Any particular "Y" valve I should be looking for to avoid this as well
as minimize the possibility of its being an odor source?


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

How vacuum tight are ‘Y" valves?
 

But, then the pump out boat and the marina pump out have to pull the
sewage through the pump. The pump out at our marina has enough
trouble lifting the stuff 15 feet at low tide. I don't want to add
the head loss of a pump to it. A self priming pump won't pass stuff
that way anyhow.

Normally, I could turn the pump on to make it easier for the
marina/pump out boat pump but we have a great service here in
Portland. You sign up with the Friends of Casco Bay and the boat
stops and pumps your tank once a week whether you need it or not. I
won't always be there to turn on the pump when they stop by.

--

Roger Long



"Peggie Hall" wrote That y'valve shouldn't be
under suction, Roger...tank contents should be
being pushed over it. It goes between the pump and the thru-hull.

Any particular "Y" valve I should be looking for to avoid this as
well as minimize the possibility of its being an odor source?

I'd go with a Whale.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems
and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

How vacuum tight are ‘Y" valves?
 

Roger Long wrote:

But, then the pump out boat and the marina pump out have to pull the
sewage through the pump. The pump out at our marina has enough
trouble lifting the stuff 15 feet at low tide. I don't want to add
the head loss of a pump to it. A self priming pump won't pass stuff
that way anyhow.

As I said, Roger...my brain burped...it's the vented loop, not the
y-valve, that goes between the pump and the thru-hull. The y-valve, of
course, goes ahead of the pump...there'd be no reason to put it after
the pump.

Sorry for the confusion...
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
om...
Roger Long wrote:

But, then the pump out boat and the marina pump out have to pull the
sewage through the pump. The pump out at our marina has enough trouble
lifting the stuff 15 feet at low tide. I don't want to add the head loss
of a pump to it. A self priming pump won't pass stuff that way anyhow.

As I said, Roger...my brain burped...

snip --

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304


You are lucky Peggie because mine only farts and never burps. ;-)

How vacuum tight are ‘Y" valves?
 

Thanks.

I actually plan to skip the vented loop in this case. Because the
USCG requires these pump outs to be secured against unintentional use,
I'm going to remove the lever from the seacock. I'm also going to put
the switch for the pump right by the tank so I can watch what's going
on (like if the vent plugs and the pump starts to collapse the tank).
This is for occasional use. I may never use it but I like the boat to
be self sufficient. The idea of being dependent on shore support for
something as basic as getting the sewage out doesn't sit well with me.

A "Y" valve may not be the best solution here either. I may just put
a ball valve in the deck pump out line. The seacock will shut off the
other side of the system.

No, that's a bad idea. Sewage would sit in the overboard line, maybe
forever. With the "Y" valve, I would pump out, then let seawater back
flow briefly to clear the overboard line (everything is below the
W.L.). Then shutting off the seacock and switching the "Y" would
leave mostly seawater in the discharge line and the boat ready for
normal pump out.


--

Roger Long

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

My waste tank is purged to the sea or, with an external hose connected,
to the Wall Mart plaza storm sewer like RVers do it, or an external
tank, like my porta pottie from the truck, using air pressure. We
don't need no steenkin' macerator pump, nor no 'nuther pump neither,
except the 12vdc tire pump, which pressurizes the system enough (1 or 2
lbs overpressure) to blow the "ballast" out the marine discharge. I use
a plastic ball valve as a sea cock, and it doesn't leak. Nor does the
joker valve, even with pressure on.

The only time I open the cheap plastic ball valve / sea cock / port /
sea valve is when emptying the holding tank. The only valve, aside
from air vent valves in the system, is the one sea cock ball valve.
There is a tee between the head, through hull / sea cock, and holding
tank pipe.

Two minutes of pumping air into the tank with the air vents closed and
the sea cock open and it all goes out. Then, it farts to let me know
it's done.

Terry K

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Hmm, I like this idea. Running that airline down into the bottom of
the tank with lots of holes would also let you aerate stuff if you
were in a no discharge zone. A 12 V air pump is 1/10 the cost.

What kind of tank do you have? I would have to pump against the head
pressure of the tank being below the waterline so would need 2 - 3 psi
which is a fair amount for a plastic tank. I would sure hate to bust
something.

--

Roger Long



"Terry K" wrote in message
oups.com...
My waste tank is purged to the sea or, with an external hose
connected,
to the Wall Mart plaza storm sewer like RVers do it, or an external
tank, like my porta pottie from the truck, using air pressure. We
don't need no steenkin' macerator pump, nor no 'nuther pump neither,
except the 12vdc tire pump, which pressurizes the system enough (1
or 2
lbs overpressure) to blow the "ballast" out the marine discharge. I
use
a plastic ball valve as a sea cock, and it doesn't leak. Nor does
the
joker valve, even with pressure on.

The only time I open the cheap plastic ball valve / sea cock / port
/
sea valve is when emptying the holding tank. The only valve, aside
from air vent valves in the system, is the one sea cock ball valve.
There is a tee between the head, through hull / sea cock, and
holding
tank pipe.

Two minutes of pumping air into the tank with the air vents closed
and
the sea cock open and it all goes out. Then, it farts to let me know
it's done.

Terry K

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

JimH wrote:
You are lucky Peggie because mine only farts and never burps. ;-)

Apparently mine has somewhat better manners than yours. :)

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

The devil is in the details. Thinking about it for another few minutes
last night, I realized that I don't want to subject all these plastic
hoses, joint, and screwed fittings that I'm trying to keep absolutely
odor tight to pressure. If it was a steel tank with hard piping,
maybe. Even then, I would want a pressure relieve valve and those are
very low pressures to have one work reliably.

A wad of toilet paper going up into the (too small) vent on our
plastic tank could also turn this into a bomb that you don't even want
to think about.

Slightly off the subject:

I remember a shipyard here in Maine needing to fill the built in tank
in a
just completed fishing dragger with water to test it. The water at
the
dock was off so they ran a long hose down the hill from the shop and
connected it to the tank. They were smart enough not to hook it up to
city
water pressure and ran the water into a funnel. They weren't smart
enough
not to hard mount the hose to the tank and the vent hadn't been
installed
yet. The weight of water in the hose, with a vertical drop of about
25
feet, bowed the top of the tank up about 3 inches. Since this was
also the
floor of the crew's quarters, all the accommodations had to be ripped
out
and a huge section of the boat cut out and rewelded. It cost about
$100,000
to fix.

--

Roger Long

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Somebody should stuff Terry K down a storm sewer...
That's just plain ignorant. But with a "plastic ball valve" for a
seacock, it's just a matter of time till his boat sinks, and then it
will be fuel and oil that he'll be fouling the waterways with, not just
sewage...sheesh! A marelon valve is ok as a seacock, but judging by his
statements, I suspect Terry is more of a PVC from Home Depot kind of
guy...
And if you skip the vented loop with your system below the water
line, You stand a good chance of sinking your boat as well, Roger. Do
yourself a favor and check out this link to see how a system should be
constructed, instead of over/under engineering it in your head. This
tutorial will answer all your questions, and it has drawings of all
common configurations....
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...tionsystem.htm

....And if you see some dipstick dumping his boat OR RV in a sewer,
call 911 and turn the idiot in..

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

markvictor wrote:
...And if you see some dipstick dumping his boat OR RV in a sewer,
call 911 and turn the idiot in..

Actually, unless he's sticking a hose down a storm drain--and maybe not
even then, other than aesthetics (which have never seemed to concern
Larry)--there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's a lot more
environmentally friendly than dumping a tank at sea. Everything on land
including bird poop ends up in the sewer...and everything in a
sewer--including the contents of all the holding tanks that are pumped
out--ends up in a sewage treatment plant.

I know quite a few people who have trailer boats who've installed
connections to their sewer lines at home so they can dump their tanks.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

It may not be such a bad idea (I'm not taking Terry seriously about the
storm sewer), IMHO.
I came up with the same idea because of head system odors that I was
convinced came through the thin diaphragm of the manual pump installed for
pumping out the tank. I was going to use my dinghy pump. But I ended up
relocating the manual pump to a cockpit locker and that was the end of the
odors...in the cabin.
I appreciate thinking outside the box.

"markvictor" wrote in message
ups.com...
Somebody should stuff Terry K down a storm sewer...
That's just plain ignorant. But with a "plastic ball valve" for a
seacock, it's just a matter of time till his boat sinks, and then it
will be fuel and oil that he'll be fouling the waterways with, not just
sewage...sheesh! A marelon valve is ok as a seacock, but judging by his
statements, I suspect Terry is more of a PVC from Home Depot kind of
guy...
And if you skip the vented loop with your system below the water
line, You stand a good chance of sinking your boat as well, Roger. Do
yourself a favor and check out this link to see how a system should be
constructed, instead of over/under engineering it in your head. This
tutorial will answer all your questions, and it has drawings of all
common configurations....
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...tionsystem.htm

...And if you see some dipstick dumping his boat OR RV in a sewer,
call 911 and turn the idiot in..

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

"markvictor" wrote

And if you skip the vented loop with your system below the water
line, You stand a good chance of sinking your boat as well, Roger.

Yeah, that's what I would say to anyone else myself while wearing my
boat designer's hat. In this case though, some part of the piping is
going to be above the waterline anyway. A slow siphon into the tank,
back through the joker valve, and out the bowl is possible but would
be pretty slow. This isn't part of the system for operation by head
users. It's just an emergency provision for if we get far enough
downeast that we aren't near a pump out. In that case, we'll nip
offshore and do the deed. I'll be doing all the pumping. The seacock
gets opened just before the pump goes on and closed just after pumping
is finished. The pump will have pulled air into the line so a siphon
can't start even if the seacock should be opened by mistake. I'll
take the handle off of this seacock after closing as double insurance.

Sure, I could sink my boat but I would have to turn off the pump
before the tank was empty and then just walk away so that the lines
would be full enough for the reverse siphon to start. I might be that
absent minded but, when I fly my plane, I look at switches that I
could do thousands of dollars of damage and maybe even kill myself by
flipping at the wrong time so I think I can handle it.

In this case, a siphon break would not add significantly to safety and
would be another potential odor leak and maintenance point.

--

Roger Long

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Terry K wrote:
My waste tank is purged to the sea or, with an external hose connected,
to the Wall Mart plaza storm sewer like RVers do it

Peggie Hall wrote:

Actually, unless he's sticking a hose down a storm drain--and maybe not
even then, other than aesthetics (which have never seemed to concern
Larry)--there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's a lot more
environmentally friendly than dumping a tank at sea. Everything on land
including bird poop ends up in the sewer...and everything in a
sewer--including the contents of all the holding tanks that are pumped
out--ends up in a sewage treatment plant.

You may be a marine sanitation "specialist", but your knowledge of
waste and run-off is blatantly lacking...There IS something wrong with
it...(unless you feel there is nothing wrong with committing a
misdemeanor), bird poop,and Larry"s Wal- Mart deposits, and, as you put
it, "everything on land" does not end up in the sewer, I don't know
what part of Idaho you're from, but in California, the vast majority of
runoff goes to storm drains, barrancas,flood control channels,streams
and rivers, and discharges directly to the harbors and ocean...
nearshore or onshore, about 3 miles shy of the 3 mile limit..Our
beaches are routinely closed by the Health dept. due to elevated levels
of fecal coliform bacteria; bad enough from the"bird poop".. the last
thing we need (or will tolerate) is morons dumping waste in the storm
drains. How you could possibly think that dumping sewage to a storm
drain is more environmentally friendly than at least taking it 3 miles
away from where people live, work, swim, surf, etc. is beyond logic.
Perhaps you've got stock in a gammaglobulin manufacturer...I'm sorry
Peggy, you may be adept at odor control, but your knowledge of
sanitation stinks....
So, I guess it's OK to pee in YOUR pool...

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

She was saying it would be OK to dump it in a sewer, NOT a storm drain.
Go back and actually read the posts, Mark.

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

The situation does vary geographically, even locally.

Here in Maine, we have a lot of combined sewer and storm drains.
There are sills so that everything goes to the sewer plant until there
is a heavy rain. Then, the flow overtops the sills and goes into the
bay. We also have a lot of direct storm drains that are slowly being
phased out. The "Friends of Casco Bay" had a program to go around and
stencil little lobster emblems with the note "Drains directly to the
bay" on them so people would know not to dump especially noxious stuff
down them.

One of the local sewer districts wanted to know how often the sills
were overflowing and sending everything into the bay so they did
something simple and clever. The went in and just set blocks of wood
on top of the sills. If they looked after a rain, they would have the
answer.

Back when on was on the board of FOCB, they told me how much oil goes
into the bay daily just from street runoff. I calculated the volume
thinking that a visual display of a mock up black painted box would be
great public education. This is a small city and most of the bay is
rural and suburban. We never did the box thing because we couldn't
figure out how to transport it. I've forgotten exactly how big it was
but I think it was over 10 feet square. That works out to being a
significant oil spill 365 days a year. It's just so distributed that
the effects are invisible.

Up here in Maine, it would not be a good idea to sump your holding
tank anywhere not marked specifically for human waste.

--

Roger Long



"Keith" wrote in message
oups.com...
She was saying it would be OK to dump it in a sewer, NOT a storm
drain.
Go back and actually read the posts, Mark.

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Keith wrote:
She was saying it would be OK to dump it in a sewer, NOT a storm drain.
Go back and actually read the posts, Mark.
Peggie Hall wrote:
Actually, unless he's sticking a hose down a storm drain--and maybe not
even then, other than aesthetics (which have never seemed to concern
Larry)--there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's a lot more
environmentally friendly than dumping a tank at sea.

What part of "maybe not even then" and "there's nothing wrong with it"
do you fail to comprehend? If YOU would actually read the posts, you
would see that what was said was that there may not be anything wrong
with dumping in a storm drain, because "bird poop" and "everything else
on land" ends up in the sewer and sewage is treated. That just isn't
so... Animal waste is enough to cause beach closings, we don't need
human waste and the diseases it can carry added to the runoff. It's not
that hard to do the right thing...

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Terry K wrote:
My waste tank is purged to the sea or, with an external hose connected,
to the Wall Mart plaza storm sewer like RVers do it

Peggie Hall wrote:
Actually, unless he's sticking a hose down a storm drain--and maybe not
even then, other than aesthetics (which have never seemed to concern
Larry)--there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's a lot more
environmentally friendly than dumping a tank at sea. Everything on land
including bird poop ends up in the sewer...and everything in a
sewer--including the contents of all the holding tanks that are pumped
out--ends up in a sewage treatment plant.

You may be a marine sanitation "specialist", but your knowledge of
waste and run-off is blatantly lacking...There IS something wrong with
it...(unless you feel there is nothing wrong with committing a
misdemeanor), bird poop,and Terry"s Wal- Mart deposits, and, as you put
it, "everything on land" does not end up in the sewer, I don't know
what part of Idaho you're from, but in California, the vast majority of
runoff goes to storm drains, barrancas,flood control channels,streams
and rivers, and discharges directly to the harbors and ocean...
nearshore or onshore, about 3 miles shy of the 3 mile limit..Our
beaches are routinely closed by the Health dept. due to elevated levels
of fecal coliform bacteria; bad enough from the"bird poop".. the last
thing we need (or will tolerate) is morons dumping waste in the storm
drains. How you could possibly think that dumping sewage to a storm
drain is more environmentally friendly than at least taking it 3 miles
away from where people live, work, swim, surf, etc. is beyond logic.
Perhaps you've got stock in a gammaglobulin manufacturer...I'm sorry
Peggy, you may be adept at odor control, but your knowledge of
sanitation stinks....
So, I guess it's OK to pee in YOUR pool...

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

The reason I pointed that out was not to say you personally would
forget to close a valve, but are you the only one that uses the boat?
Do you ever have it serviced by others? When I first started working in
a boatyard about 20 years ago, I was told to go down to a Catalina
(notorius toilet sinkers) they had just splashed, and "make sure all
the through hulls were open", so I did...One of the shipwrights had
left some sawdust in the galley, so I went up to grab a shop vac..I was
gone about 10-15 minutes, and when I returned....The floor boards were
floating in about 8 in. of seawater, which was flowing freely into the
boat from the bowl of the head . 15 more min. would have turned a
cleanup into a salvage. And the plane ref....I bet you don't
"preflight" your boat as meticulously as you do when you fly...and
people are not wandering around your plane with access to critical
system controls ...Bet your insurance co. may have an opinion as
well...I don't seem to have any odor problems with my siphon break,but
I'm careful to keep the lines well flushed...But if you really want to
keep the odor under control...in a word -Vacuflush.! I wish I could
afford that system...too steep for my budget, but one day...
markv

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Oh yeah , Roger...
I never made that mistake again...lol...learned my lesson after a
couple of days of clean-up with no pay
and hourly reminders by the boat's owner about how dumb I must be, and
how nice he must be for not getting me fired...lol
markv

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

markvictor wrote:
Actually, unless he's sticking a hose down a storm drain--and maybe not
even then, other than aesthetics (which have never seemed to concern
Larry)--there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's a lot more
environmentally friendly than dumping a tank at sea.


What part of "maybe not even then" and "there's nothing wrong with it"
do you fail to comprehend?

What part of "maybe" didn't you understand, Mark? If it ends up in the
sewer--granted, not all storm drains are connected to sewer
pipes...hence my use of the word "maybe"--there's nothing
environmentally wrong with it.

If YOU would actually read the posts, you
would see that what was said was that there may not be anything wrong
with dumping in a storm drain...

Right...I did say "MAY NOT"...


, because "bird poop" and "everything else
on land" ends up in the sewer and sewage is treated. That just isn't
so...

In YOUR area...but not in all. But even storm drains that do empty
directly into the ocean instead of a sewer line do so through pipes that
terminate at least 3 miles offshore (that wasn't always true, but is in
MOST places now), which is also the minimum distance from shore to
legally dump a tank at sea. So how is dumping a tank down a storm drain
that terminates 3 miles offshore any worse for the environment than
dumping it at sea barely 3 miles offshore?

Yours is just one more example of a "knee jerk" emotional reaction
without any rational reasoning behind it.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

So, we have seen some more examples of what I call "emotive
arguements."

In many places, public RV dumps are available at shopping plazas, and
in most places, sanitary and storm sewers are the same thing. I don't
do much RVing, but I have spoken to some who do, and the practice of
dumping at public plaza sanitary facilities, with rinse hoses and
signage, is common, even encouraged by mall operators, who want
travellers to eat and shop there come morning, from behind their blue
line in the parking lot. Our local mall regularly has 50 or so stopped
there in season. Most popular tourist destinations do not have enough
camp grounds and charge too much, and can't survive the short season
economically, so the RVers have pressured to make public rest stops and
dumps more available. It's legal. It's also smart, as it encourages
tourism. Boats are recreational vehicles, too.

I like to have options, and taking advantage of local public
utilities when convenient does not make me a polluter. Nor does
building a system with multiple workable options.

Home hardware PVC ball valves are OK by me, I have tried to break the
one I used, and cannot imagine anything short of a really big hammer
being able to hurt it. No plumbing fixtures leak when new, or they
would not be approved for sale. Mine would be cheaper to replace than
repairing any of the "Marine" fittings.

I would never want to trust any water or drain system that couldn't
handle five or 10 pounds pressure, like all the plumbing materials I
know are capable of doing.

Some essentials for a good odour proof system is simplicity, proper
venting, ease of snaking out relatively straight runs in the event of a
clog, and the fewest possible number of joins in the system.

Those who think that boats are not safe because they are not diamond
coated titanium are just plain paranoid, as well as badly informed.
They probably got their money from grandpa, who earned it in a
practical world. Some of these are the ones that want to bond their
metal through hulls to an electrical system, them complain that they
use up zincs too fast. Hint: disconnect the bonding and check the
fittings for erosion every time you wake up in a cold sweat. Sorry if
I'm O.T.

My home made holding tank is 3/16" thick polyester resin and
fiberglass, lined with several coats of epoxy inside. Built from
leftovers, it's cost is about say, 50 bucks, to be fair, including the
through hull hose fitting. I would trust it rolling down 3 flights of
stairs, full of take your pick. The plumbing is stuck together with
Mechanical Joints, which do not leak or smell, being thick rubber and
sewage rated, and are easy to install and remove for hose replacement
if it ever becomes neccessary. My system does not sit neglected, full
of stuff all year on a salty anchorage with the through hull open. The
head brim is above the water line. The lift from the bottom of the tank
to the discharge is about a foot and a half.

When I replaced my septic tank at the farm, I found it connected
together underground with a 4" MJ on cast iron pipe that had been
underground full of sewage for 40 years, and it was like new, even
after a couple of small earthquakes. My boat does not writhe like an
epileptic snake and there is some slack in the system, and it gets
eyeballed often. The only leaky tank I ever saw on a boat was a
commercial polyethelene tank, with a split in the outlet fitting,
possibly due to neglect and frost. The boat I bought most recently had
the wrong duck bill installed, all warped and jammed in where it didn't
fit. Who would do such a thing?

If you ask any successful engineer, he will agree that the height of
the art and science is to do well enough with the least cost. Spending
a million dollars where a thousand would do is not good engineering
unless you have a government pork project.

My tank does not flex when blowing ballast at about 2 pounds pressure.
The method is most satisfactory.

Terry K

P.S. check this out! Do you have a compression tube inside the mast
where the spreader bolt passes through? I lost an SC22 mast because
there was no such detail included by the manufacturer. 3-1/2" of 1"
i.d. tubing would have saved a bunch of trouble.

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Peggie Hall wrote:
, In YOUR area...but not in all. But even storm drains that do empty
directly into the ocean instead of a sewer line do so through pipes that
terminate at least 3 miles offshore (that wasn't always true, but is in
MOST places now),

....Not likely

which is also the minimum distance from shore to
legally dump a tank at sea. So how is dumping a tank down a storm drain
that terminates 3 miles offshore any worse for the environment than
dumping it at sea barely 3 miles offshore?

Yours is just one more example of a "knee jerk" emotional reaction
without any rational reasoning behind it.


First I will detail my "rational reasoning" for anyone who still
can't grasp it; Knee-jerk to follow..
Ever hear of the L.A. River? It is a primary storm drain for the
Los Angeles basin. Serving,what, 8 or 10 million people? And fed by
the storm runoff of thousands of street corners etc. This is typical
of systems statewide and beyond. Rarely will you see storm drains
discharge to an offshore diffuser. The exception being small treatment
districts with large capacity for runoff...nearly non existant. As soon
as the treatment facilities reach capacity during a storm, from their
fractional share of run-off, they discharge directly to the
canals,etc., to prevent the destruction of the pipelines that are meant
to carry waste only..This flows directly into the harbors, river
mouths, and beach outfalls. One of the reasons for this is quite
simple...Runoff carries with it a staggering volume of solid waste and
debris, from trees to refrigerators, trash to
telivisions...literally..treatment plants can't process it, pipelines
can't pass it, pumps can't move it. The only way to deliver the liquid
portion via lift stations and pipelines, is to remove the solids by
building large acreage catch- basins to collect it in.. A house on a
35' by 65' or 70' lot runs over 700k (median).
Now guess how much land is going to be set aside for occasional use
during storms...just above nil. Treated sewage is easily transported
offshore, storm drain runoff simply takes the paths of least reistance
to the sea.
How do I know this? 5 years diving for the USN Underwater
Construction Teams, three more for the Naval Civil Engineering
Laboratory/Ocean Ops and a couple more on contract projects. We built,
repaired, extended, and inspected sewer outfalls and diffusers all over
the world, among other things. Municipalities deliver treated waste
offshore because they are required to, they let runoff take its course
because they don't have the funds or resources to do otherwise, and for
the most part have no regulations requiring offshore delivery...yet.
So I will say it again, nothing should be sent down a storm drain
besides water, yes, animal waste, trash, oil from the roadways etc.
will still end up in the system but that's no reason for people to
contribute to the muck... If your boat was taking on water, you
wouldn't shrug your shoulders, say it was going to sink anyway, then
turn on a garden hose to help fill it... We're supposed to be smarter
than that... The only knee-jerk reactions I have are from the cramps
caused by dysentery contracted through exposure to contaminated runoff
in the harbor...

How vacuum tight are 'Y" valves?
 

Peggie Hall wrote:
, In YOUR area...but not in all. But even storm drains that do empty
directly into the ocean instead of a sewer line do so through pipes that
terminate at least 3 miles offshore (that wasn't always true, but is in
MOST places now),

....Not likely

which is also the minimum distance from shore to
legally dump a tank at sea. So how is dumping a tank down a storm drain
that terminates 3 miles offshore any worse for the environment than
dumping it at sea barely 3 miles offshore?

Yours is just one more example of a "knee jerk" emotional reaction
without any rational reasoning behind it.


First I will detail my "rational reasoning" for anyone who still
can't grasp it; Knee-jerk to follow..
Ever hear of the L.A. River? It is a primary storm drain for the
Los Angeles basin. Serving,what, 8 or 10 million people? And fed by
the storm runoff of thousands of street corners etc. This is typical
of systems statewide and beyond. Rarely will you see storm drains
discharge to an offshore diffuser. The exception being small treatment
districts with large capacity for runoff...nearly non existant. As soon
as the treatment facilities reach capacity during a storm, from their
fractional share of run-off, they discharge directly to the
canals,etc., to prevent the destruction of the pipelines that are meant
to carry waste only..This flows directly into the harbors, river
mouths, and beach outfalls. One of the reasons for this is quite
simple...Runoff carries with it a staggering volume of solid waste and
debris, from trees to refrigerators, trash to
telivisions...literally..treatment plants can't process it, pipelines
can't pass it, pumps can't move it. The only way to deliver the liquid
portion via lift stations and pipelines, is to remove the solids by
building large acreage catch- basins to collect it in.. A house on a
35' by 65' or 70' lot runs over 700k (median).
Now guess how much land is going to be set aside for occasional use
during storms...just above nil. Treated sewage is easily transported
offshore, storm drain runoff simply takes the paths of least reistance
to the sea.
How do I know this? 5 years diving for the USN Underwater
Construction Teams, three more for the Naval Civil Engineering
Laboratory/Ocean Ops and a couple more on contract projects. We built,
repaired, extended, and inspected sewer outfalls and diffusers all over
the world, among other things. Municipalities deliver treated waste
offshore because they are required to, they let runoff take its course
because they don't have the funds or resources to do otherwise, and for
the most part have no regulations requiring offshore delivery...yet.
So I will say it again, nothing should be sent down a storm drain
besides water, yes, animal waste, trash, oil from the roadways etc.
will still end up in the system but that's no reason for people to
contribute to the muck... If your boat was taking on water, you
wouldn't shrug your shoulders, say it was going to sink anyway, then
turn on a garden hose to help fill it... We're supposed to be smarter
than that... The only knee-jerk reactions I have are from the cramps
caused by dysentery contracted through exposure to contaminated runoff
in the harbor...