Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

I want to put a bulkhead mount diesel heater in our Endeavor 32 and am
going round and round on the type. I’d like to hear some thoughts and
actual experience.

I like the idea of a pipe running from the main fuel tank so that the
heater will simply run as long as there is fuel. However, all the
units that can be piped up this way seem to depend on 12 volts being
available and are a current draw.

The idea of the heater being completely independent from electric
power is attractive but this seems to involve pumping up pressure
tanks. The idea of getting up in a cold boat in the middle of the
night to pull out a loose can of fuel, refill a tank, pump it up, and
get the heater going again doesn’t appeal.

The only thing I’m sure of is that I don’t want a drip pot burner set
up like I saw so many of on the West Coast years ago. I understand
they are heel sensitive and I’d like my boat to be warm and toasty
when I go below after sailing it hard. I'd also like it to not be too
warm and toasty. I've seen what happens when drip pots go wild.

I’m looking ahead to trips up around Newfoundland and Labrador so
reliability is important. I also plan some very late season sailing in
Maine with long periods aboard so I would like the heater to run long
periods with minimal attention.

--

Roger Long

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Roger Long wrote:
I want to put a bulkhead mount diesel heater in our Endeavor 32 and am
going round and round on the type. I’d like to hear some thoughts and
actual experience.

I like the idea of a pipe running from the main fuel tank so that the
heater will simply run as long as there is fuel. However, all the
units that can be piped up this way seem to depend on 12 volts being
available and are a current draw.

The idea of the heater being completely independent from electric
power is attractive but this seems to involve pumping up pressure
tanks. The idea of getting up in a cold boat in the middle of the
night to pull out a loose can of fuel, refill a tank, pump it up, and
get the heater going again doesn’t appeal.

The only thing I’m sure of is that I don’t want a drip pot burner set
up like I saw so many of on the West Coast years ago. I understand
they are heel sensitive and I’d like my boat to be warm and toasty
when I go below after sailing it hard. I'd also like it to not be too
warm and toasty. I've seen what happens when drip pots go wild.

I’m looking ahead to trips up around Newfoundland and Labrador so
reliability is important. I also plan some very late season sailing in
Maine with long periods aboard so I would like the heater to run long
periods with minimal attention.

Roger,
We have a Dickinsen Pacific in my boat (Truant 33):
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...15779639vNsHyY
that keeps the entire boat very warm. It is also our cook stove. In
the summer we use an alcohol stove on top of it when it is too warm to
light the Dickinsen. It is gravity fed from a 6 gallon day tank and
works at all normal angles of heel in all weather. The day tank is fed
from a small 12v pump led off the main tank. The stove will run for a
week continuously from the day tank before it needs refilling. (I guess
that makes it a week tank)

The Dickinsen line of heaters and stoves is very respected by folks
here on the west coast. I have seen various models in everything from
fish boats to tugs. I have a bigger one, the Dickinsen Beaufort, in
Oriole (the 102' ketch I am Master of). I have several friends who run
Alaskas and the other straight heater models. In fact I almost bought
an Ontario 32 with one. They are a terrific, trouble free source of
loads of heat. Kind of like a wood stove in a cabin.

I love ours.
Gaz

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

That looks great. A galley stove like that is what I would really
like but I can't see how to make it work with the arrangement on our
boat. I'll want to put the dodger back on for cold weather sailing
and the stove pipe would come right up through it. Even without that,
the sheeting arrangement and other rigging makes a hot stove pipe
right by the companionway very problematic. The pipe up forward as
you have, should be a lot easier to live with, thus the bulkhead
heater.

I have a beautiful antique Shipmate "Skippy" that I restored for the
boat but have given up on it for the same reason. It's looking for a
good home if anyone wants to burn wood.

--

Roger Long

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:02:54 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I like the idea of a pipe running from the main fuel tank so that the
heater will simply run as long as there is fuel. However, all the
units that can be piped up this way seem to depend on 12 volts being
available and are a current draw.

===============================

Not sure how big an issue the 12 volt power is in actual practice. If
you are gearing up for serious cruising in the boondocks you will want
to beef up your electrical system in a fairly major way. 440 A-H is
about a bare minimum in my experience, especially if you have a lot of
toys. That should be enough to power a small heater through the night
with no problem.

The key to a reliable electrical system is plenty of reserve battery
capacity, and lots of redundancy for recharging (high capacity
alternator, solar panels, wind charger, etc.) In addition I like to
have one extra battery off to the side completely isolated for an
emergency jump start if needed.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

Not sure how big an issue the 12 volt power is in actual practice. If
you are gearing up for serious cruising in the boondocks you will want
to beef up your electrical system in a fairly major way. 440 A-H is
about a bare minimum in my experience, especially if you have a lot of
toys. That should be enough to power a small heater through the night
with no problem.



Hmm...1500 watt heater, only 5000 Btu. 1500 watts divided by 12V = 125A
if the conversion to 115VAC was 100% efficient, which it's not. 440 AH
is the rating at a 10 or 20A load, not 125A, which would, probably, boil
the electrolyte into steam in short order, the lead melting from the
intense chemical reaction (ever see a car battery explode?).

My old tagline used to read:

"Nothing is funnier than watching a boater with a new 4KW inverter
carrying his heater down the dock with a big smile on his face.".....(c;

All in good fun. We'll standby with extinguishers and the Handy Billy in
case things don't go as planned....

Want me to store the insurance claims phone number, just in case??

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:27:41 -0500, Larry wrote:

Hmm...1500 watt heater, only 5000 Btu. 1500 watts divided by 12V = 125A
if the conversion to 115VAC was 100% efficient, which it's not. 440 AH
is the rating at a 10 or 20A load, not 125A, which would, probably, boil
the electrolyte into steam in short order, the lead melting from the
intense chemical reaction (ever see a car battery explode?).

==========

Larry, you have ridden that horse into the ground and beyond.

He is talking about a DIESEL heater. The 12 volt power is most likely
for a small fuel pump and/or fan.

No lead will be melted here.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Look at Webasto, Wallas, Force 10

Capt. Jeff

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

"Wayne.B" wrote

440 A-H is about a bare minimum in my experience, especially if you
have a lot of
toys.

I'm a minimalist. Years ago, I was determined to build and cruise in
a boat with a hand start diesel and have the longest and only electric
wire in the boat be the one that ran from one end of the flashlight to
the other inside the case. Age has corrupted me of course but I still
like my sailing simple and my batteries small.

--

Roger Long

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

In article ,
says...

(ever see a car battery explode?).

No. But I had three boat batteries explode one after the other. Awful mess.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Roger, one option to avoid the need for 12V (at least the continuous use
of 12V) would be to put a daytank above the heater for gravity feed, and
then fill the daytank occasionally using a 12v pump.

bob

Roger Long wrote:
I want to put a bulkhead mount diesel heater in our Endeavor 32 and am
going round and round on the type. I’d like to hear some thoughts and
actual experience.

I like the idea of a pipe running from the main fuel tank so that the
heater will simply run as long as there is fuel. However, all the
units that can be piped up this way seem to depend on 12 volts being
available and are a current draw.

The idea of the heater being completely independent from electric
power is attractive but this seems to involve pumping up pressure
tanks. The idea of getting up in a cold boat in the middle of the
night to pull out a loose can of fuel, refill a tank, pump it up, and
get the heater going again doesn’t appeal.

The only thing I’m sure of is that I don’t want a drip pot burner set
up like I saw so many of on the West Coast years ago. I understand
they are heel sensitive and I’d like my boat to be warm and toasty
when I go below after sailing it hard. I'd also like it to not be too
warm and toasty. I've seen what happens when drip pots go wild.

I’m looking ahead to trips up around Newfoundland and Labrador so
reliability is important. I also plan some very late season sailing in
Maine with long periods aboard so I would like the heater to run long
periods with minimal attention.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

I think nearly everyone who has responded is missing something, unless
I am.

As I understand from what I have reviewed on manufacturer's web sites,
there are three options:

1) Pot burner.

No power required. Would work from a gravity day tank with either 12
V or hand pump.
Downside: Erratic at large heel angles. Can flood an produce large
flames, or so I've heard. The horror stories I know are 30 years old
so maybe they've gotten better.

2) Pressure by air. The fuel is put into a small pressure tank and
pumped up with a small internal pump sort of like a camp stove.

3) Pressure by 12 volt pump. This runs all the time that the stove is
running. Not a big draw but, no power, no heat.

I'm leaning towards #3 because maintaining power is pretty vital for
other reasons. I also like the idea of being able to shut off fuel
delivery with a switch. If a pipe or fitting broke with the pressure
tank set up, diesel would be spraying everywhere, perhaps on the
heater.

Being a gadgeteer, I might look into a hybrid where fuel can be pumped
into the small tank from the main fuel tank and then pressurized by a
small air pump. I wouldn't try to make this automatic but it would
save schlepping fuel around the boat in cans. An emergency air bleed
vent to the outside would shut the stove off quickly in an emergency.


--

Roger Long



"RW Salnick" wrote in message
...
Roger, one option to avoid the need for 12V (at least the continuous
use
of 12V) would be to put a daytank above the heater for gravity feed,
and
then fill the daytank occasionally using a 12v pump.

bob

Roger Long wrote:
I want to put a bulkhead mount diesel heater in our Endeavor 32 and
am going round and round on the type. I’d like to hear some thoughts
and actual experience.

I like the idea of a pipe running from the main fuel tank so that
the heater will simply run as long as there is fuel. However, all
the units that can be piped up this way seem to depend on 12 volts
being available and are a current draw.

The idea of the heater being completely independent from electric
power is attractive but this seems to involve pumping up pressure
tanks. The idea of getting up in a cold boat in the middle of the
night to pull out a loose can of fuel, refill a tank, pump it up,
and get the heater going again doesn’t appeal.

The only thing I’m sure of is that I don’t want a drip pot burner
set up like I saw so many of on the West Coast years ago. I
understand they are heel sensitive and I’d like my boat to be warm
and toasty when I go below after sailing it hard. I'd also like it
to not be too warm and toasty. I've seen what happens when drip
pots go wild.

I’m looking ahead to trips up around Newfoundland and Labrador so
reliability is important. I also plan some very late season sailing
in Maine with long periods aboard so I would like the heater to run
long periods with minimal attention.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Also, I asked one of the manufacturers and they do not know of a 12
volt pump that can supply the fuel at the proper pressure and
consistency of flow that the pressure tank can. They've been looking
because lots of people have asked.

Too bad because I like the looks of the heaters that used this system
better than the others. Evidently, the ones that use 12 volts have a
different kind of burner and atomization set up.

--

Roger Long

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

I use an electric fuel pump from NAPA, and a fuel pressure regulator to
feed our Dickenson (it's a pot burner) - works ok.

But if you are looking for air circulation and quiet (!! very important,
if you are a live-aboard as I am), then I would highly recommend the Wallas.

bob

Roger Long wrote:
Also, I asked one of the manufacturers and they do not know of a 12
volt pump that can supply the fuel at the proper pressure and
consistency of flow that the pressure tank can. They've been looking
because lots of people have asked.

Too bad because I like the looks of the heaters that used this system
better than the others. Evidently, the ones that use 12 volts have a
different kind of burner and atomization set up.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

if the conversion to 115VAC was 100% efficient, which it's not. 440 AH

The conversion from electrical power to heat
is the only one that in fact is 100% effective. :)

(Yes, I know, the original question was
diesel pump, not electric hater.)

Chris

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

RW Salnick wrote:
Roger, one option to avoid the need for 12V (at least the continuous use
of 12V) would be to put a daytank above the heater for gravity feed, and
then fill the daytank occasionally using a 12v pump.

bob
Great idea!

Gaz

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Mike the Spamkiller wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:13:19 -0800, RW Salnick
wrote:


Roger, one option to avoid the need for 12V (at least the continuous use
of 12V) would be to put a daytank above the heater for gravity feed, and
then fill the daytank occasionally using a 12v pump.



Wouldn´t you still need 12V fan to get warm air around the boat?

Fuel pump and fan don´t need that much electricity. My 25-year old
Wallas1800 need some 0,5A current for pump and fan. Understand new
models use even less. A small solar panel can provide enough
electricity for heater.

Mika
Mine, with the gravity feed tank and one of those cool fans that sits on
top of the Dickinson stove and runs on the heat generated takes no
electricity and generates in excess of 6500 BTU.

Check it:
http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/shop5...p?catalogid=34

The fan:
http://www.magma.ca/~barkhm5/ecofan.htm

I use mine regularly. It works great. Keeps the boat and my marriage
very warm.

Gaz

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Roger Long wrote:
I think nearly everyone who has responded is missing something, unless
I am.

As I understand from what I have reviewed on manufacturer's web sites,
there are three options:

1) Pot burner.

No power required. Would work from a gravity day tank with either 12
V or hand pump.
Downside: Erratic at large heel angles. Can flood an produce large
flames, or so I've heard. The horror stories I know are 30 years old
so maybe they've gotten better.

2) Pressure by air. The fuel is put into a small pressure tank and
pumped up with a small internal pump sort of like a camp stove.

3) Pressure by 12 volt pump. This runs all the time that the stove is
running. Not a big draw but, no power, no heat.

I'm leaning towards #3 because maintaining power is pretty vital for
other reasons. I also like the idea of being able to shut off fuel
delivery with a switch. If a pipe or fitting broke with the pressure
tank set up, diesel would be spraying everywhere, perhaps on the
heater.

Being a gadgeteer, I might look into a hybrid where fuel can be pumped
into the small tank from the main fuel tank and then pressurized by a
small air pump. I wouldn't try to make this automatic but it would
save schlepping fuel around the boat in cans. An emergency air bleed
vent to the outside would shut the stove off quickly in an emergency.


Roger,
You forgot the gravity feed. The setup on the Dickinsons if installed
properly precludes flooding and flame ups. The carb has a float in it
and when the feed is too fast the float rises and stops the flow well
back from the burner. If the heater/stove is mounted near the ceterline
of the boat with the day tank above it it will work fine except on
extreme days with in excess of 45 degrees of heel. I have laid my boat
over with the stove on (50 -60 degrees) and nothing happens.
Check it:
http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/shop5...p?catalogid=25
For installation manual see the bottom of the page.

Gaz

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Thanks,

I thought these were pot burner heaters but I see that they are a lot
more sophisticated. I like the looks of this after reading through
the manual.

--

Roger Long

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Roger Long wrote:
Thanks,

I thought these were pot burner heaters but I see that they are a lot
more sophisticated. I like the looks of this after reading through
the manual.

I am very impressed with how simple and functional mine is. I went down
their today, lit the stove and 20 minutes later was sitting in my shirt
sleeves having a pleasant read while the endless rain pounded the boat.
I last filled the day tank in early Dec but i only light the stove for
a few hours each time I go down to the boat (a couple days a week). It
seems to last forever. I used to burn stove oil in it but recently
switched to diesel and it burns just as clean but now I pull fuel
directly from the main tank. The switch was as simple as adjusting one
screw on the carb to allow the diesel to flow faster because it is more
viscous than stove oil.

Warm dry heat.

Gaz

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Gary wrote:
Mike the Spamkiller wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:13:19 -0800, RW Salnick
wrote:


Roger, one option to avoid the need for 12V (at least the continuous
use of 12V) would be to put a daytank above the heater for gravity
feed, and then fill the daytank occasionally using a 12v pump.



Wouldn´t you still need 12V fan to get warm air around the boat?
Fuel pump and fan don´t need that much electricity. My 25-year old
Wallas1800 need some 0,5A current for pump and fan. Understand new
models use even less. A small solar panel can provide enough
electricity for heater.

Mika

Mine, with the gravity feed tank and one of those cool fans that sits on
top of the Dickinson stove and runs on the heat generated takes no
electricity and generates in excess of 6500 BTU.

Check it:
http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/shop5...p?catalogid=34

The fan:
http://www.magma.ca/~barkhm5/ecofan.htm

Wow, cool fan. Would it work on top of a Force 10 propane heater?

--
Stephen

-------

For any proposition there is always some sufficiently narrow
interpretation of its terms, such that it turns out true, and
some sufficiently wide interpretation such that it turns out
false...concept stretching will refute *any* statement, and will
leave no true statement whatsoever.
-- Imre Lakatos

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Gary wrote:

Mike the Spamkiller wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:13:19 -0800, RW Salnick
wrote:


Roger, one option to avoid the need for 12V (at least the continuous
use of 12V) would be to put a daytank above the heater for gravity
feed, and then fill the daytank occasionally using a 12v pump.



Wouldn´t you still need 12V fan to get warm air around the boat?
Fuel pump and fan don´t need that much electricity. My 25-year old
Wallas1800 need some 0,5A current for pump and fan. Understand new
models use even less. A small solar panel can provide enough
electricity for heater.

Mika


Mine, with the gravity feed tank and one of those cool fans that sits
on top of the Dickinson stove and runs on the heat generated takes no
electricity and generates in excess of 6500 BTU.

Check it:
http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/shop5...p?catalogid=34

The fan:
http://www.magma.ca/~barkhm5/ecofan.htm


Wow, cool fan. Would it work on top of a Force 10 propane heater?

It needs a flat spot to sit on and room for the blades to turn. I have
the small one and it moves a lot of air.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

I use mine regularly. It works great. Keeps the boat and my
marriage very warm.

Where can I get one of those for my marriage?

--

Roger Long

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:36:53 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:
I use mine regularly. It works great. Keeps the boat and my
marriage very warm.

Where can I get one of those for my marriage?

==============

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that boats and a warm marriage
are not always compatible.

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Gary wrote:
Roger Long wrote:

Thanks,

I thought these were pot burner heaters but I see that they are a lot
more sophisticated. I like the looks of this after reading through
the manual.

I am very impressed with how simple and functional mine is. I went down
their today, lit the stove and 20 minutes later was sitting in my shirt
sleeves having a pleasant read while the endless rain pounded the boat.
I last filled the day tank in early Dec but i only light the stove for
a few hours each time I go down to the boat (a couple days a week). It
seems to last forever. I used to burn stove oil in it but recently
switched to diesel and it burns just as clean but now I pull fuel
directly from the main tank. The switch was as simple as adjusting one
screw on the carb to allow the diesel to flow faster because it is more
viscous than stove oil.

Warm dry heat.

Gaz

Is stove oil, fuel oil ?

How does stove oil compare in price with diesel ?

Thank you,
Courtney

Diesel heater opinions wanted
 

Courtney Thomas wrote:
I used to burn stove oil in
it but recently switched to diesel and it burns just as clean but now
I pull fuel directly from the main tank. The switch was as simple as
adjusting one screw on the carb to allow the diesel to flow faster
because it is more viscous than stove oil.

Warm dry heat.

Gaz


Is stove oil, fuel oil ?

How does stove oil compare in price with diesel ?

Thank you,
Courtney

I used to burn stove oil which is apparently cleaner burning than diesel
fuel oil. The stove can be set up for stove oil, diesel or kerosene. I
wanted it on diesel so I only have to carry one fuel and so I can run it
out of the main fuel tanks. I find the difference in cleanliness to be
noticeable but manageable. The diesel is cheaper.

Gaz