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Msg to rhys
I'd have emailed except for the nospam address. You mentioned racing on a Newport 27 out of Toronto. Do you know anybody who might be looking for a cheap Newport 27 to fix up and go racing against you? My son owns one in Kingston and won't get to sail it for the next 3 years because of his coop program, so it's probably time to sell. It's fundamentally sound with a good A4 and blown out sails. Ryk |
Msg to rhys
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 09:11:36 -0500, Ryk
wrote: I'd have emailed except for the nospam address. OK. You I know, so it's fine to drop a line...G You mentioned racing on a Newport 27 out of Toronto. Do you know anybody who might be looking for a cheap Newport 27 to fix up and go racing against you? The owner sold his last year to a couple in the club next door and bought a CS 30, of which we have at least a six-boat fleet for racing. I didn't race in '05, concentrating on cruising. I may race in '06...haven't decided yet. My son owns one in Kingston and won't get to sail it for the next 3 years because of his coop program, so it's probably time to sell. It's fundamentally sound with a good A4 and blown out sails. Wow. Access to an A4 on a Newport 27 would be a bitch G. the N27 I sailed on for five years: The former owner despaired of selling his. He eventually settled, after several months of brokerage and private lukewarm interest, for just $12,000 (he wanted $18,000). His had some little two-stroke gas engine...not an A4...although it pushed the boat well enough. The condition wasn't bad, particularly on the interior, as the boat hadn't been cruised or even slept on...just raced. So going to a well-earned "semi-retirement" as a fast daysailer/overnighter for a couple starting in cruising made (and makes) sense. Anyway, what I'm saying is the market is very soft for under 30 footers with Atomic 4s, but it's mainly just that there's so many 1970-1985 "classic plastics" out there whose orginal owners are getting up in years, and either moving up or getting out of sailing. The market's flooded with little boats. You can get a race-ready Shark for four grand. So I would suggest the following: if he likes the boat and it will suit him in the future, maybe he could "lend-lease" it to his club as an " learn to sail" boat, with a three-year-term. His club keeps it clean, keeps it maintained and hauls, launches and stores it. In return, he buys any major failed components not directly attributable to misuse, and provides all maintainence logs, spares, etc. He might even get a tax write-off out of the deal. Sea Scouts/Cadets might jump at that, as might a club offering learn to sail for adults or for disadvantaged kids. One such organization is our club's Broad Reach Foundation. You can read about them he www.thenyc.com/newsletter/05July/05July.pdf or go to http://www.sailbroadreach.org/home.html for more info. They are usually *given* old boats, but I bet they'd be flexible on that point... Hope these suggestions help, R. |
Msg to rhys
"rhys" wrote in message ... On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 09:11:36 -0500, Ryk wrote: snip My son owns one in Kingston and won't get to sail it for the next 3 years because of his coop program, so it's probably time to sell. It's fundamentally sound with a good A4 and blown out sails. Wow. Access to an A4 on a Newport 27 would be a bitch G. Not sure about the particular Newport 27 you sailed, but I used to own a 1984 and it had very good engine access. There was a hatch in the cockpit sole, as well as complete access from the front (after removing the companionway steps) and port side (through the very large lazarette). --Alan Gomes |
Msg to rhys
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:04:51 -0800, "Alan Gomes" wrote:
Not sure about the particular Newport 27 you sailed, but I used to own a 1984 and it had very good engine access. There was a hatch in the cockpit sole, as well as complete access from the front (after removing the companionway steps) and port side (through the very large lazarette). A hatch in the cockpit sole would make all the difference. Having worked extensively on Atomic 4s, you really want to get at 'em from above. The N27 I raced as crew on didn't have an A4 (some kind of two-stroke, I think, with a single-lever throttle/gearshifter) and certainly didn't have a cockpit hatch. Decent boat, though, and it was an '84 as well, if I recall correctly. Predictably, the owner had replaced a two by three foot chunk of deck due to delamination/core rot, but he did a reasonably good job of recycling the top skin. As I understand it, the Newport 27 is a C&C 27 hull with a different deck, and it weighed 5,500 lbs. compared to the C&C 27's 7,500 lbs. They certainly carried a different PHRF-LO rating and the Newport was slapped around trying to work to weather in any kind of wave action, because she couldn't "punch" due to light-ish weight. She *would* surf readily, however, in a broach reach or dead downwind, and going 10 or 11 knots in a smallish keelboat was fun....you learn to anticipate and enjoy the "ready to surf" sound. By contrast, I've surfed...briefly...only twice on my 33', 10,000 lb. keelboat, and it took a hatful of wind to do even that. R. |
Msg to rhys
"rhys" wrote in message ... On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 15:04:51 -0800, "Alan Gomes" wrote: Not sure about the particular Newport 27 you sailed, but I used to own a 1984 and it had very good engine access. There was a hatch in the cockpit sole, as well as complete access from the front (after removing the companionway steps) and port side (through the very large lazarette). A hatch in the cockpit sole would make all the difference. Having worked extensively on Atomic 4s, you really want to get at 'em from above. The N27 I raced as crew on didn't have an A4 (some kind of two-stroke, I think, with a single-lever throttle/gearshifter) and certainly didn't have a cockpit hatch. Decent boat, though, and it was an '84 as well, if I recall correctly. Predictably, the owner had replaced a two by three foot chunk of deck due to delamination/core rot, but he did a reasonably good job of recycling the top skin. As I understand it, the Newport 27 is a C&C 27 hull with a different deck, and it weighed 5,500 lbs. compared to the C&C 27's 7,500 lbs. They certainly carried a different PHRF-LO rating and the Newport was slapped around trying to work to weather in any kind of wave action, because she couldn't "punch" due to light-ish weight. She *would* surf readily, however, in a broach reach or dead downwind, and going 10 or 11 knots in a smallish keelboat was fun....you learn to anticipate and enjoy the "ready to surf" sound. By contrast, I've surfed...briefly...only twice on my 33', 10,000 lb. keelboat, and it took a hatful of wind to do even that. R. Actually, I think the boat weighs closer to 6300 lbs. Mine had a Universal 18 diesel and, as I mentioned, I had no complaints about access. Yes, they really did sail well. Mine was in Long Beach and I had numerous trips back from Catalina where the boat easily surfed most of the way home. Never got her up to 10 or 11 knots, though! It's a nicely balanced boat with good sailing characteristics. Capital Yachts only did a so-so job on these boats in terms of built quality, but it was your proverbial "built to a price" production boat. Mine held together OK and was in solid shape when I sold her. I noticed that my old one is currently for sale: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...24&slim=quick&. I see they list the displacement as 6,000#, but I think that's a bit low because that's what the documentation states is for the outboard model. Take care, Alan Gomes |
Msg to rhys
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:18:32 -0800, "Alan Gomes" wrote:
Actually, I think the boat weighs closer to 6300 lbs. Mine had a Universal 18 diesel and, as I mentioned, I had no complaints about access. All I know is what the owner claimed, and how I saw it perform. The qualities that made it surf (with crew deployed properly) were related to its light weight relative to the C&C 27s it raced against, which would surf, but not as readily. And yet the same hulls with different ballasts would react differently heading into a sea. The C&C 27s would plow through, and the N27 would be practically *stopped*. You could tell what type of conditions would be brutal, although in a flatter, less leftover slop kind of sea and with a full hoist, the boat would heel over and take off in the manner pretty familiar to C&C owners. But yes, a nice inshore/coastal boat for one or two, or a club racer for five or so. R. |
Msg to rhys
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:27:30 -0500, rhys wrote:
And yet the same hulls with different ballasts would react differently heading into a sea. The C&C 27s would plow through, and the N27 would be practically *stopped*. ====================== Proper helm technique can make a big difference getting through waves. |
Msg to rhys
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:28:26 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:27:30 -0500, rhys wrote: And yet the same hulls with different ballasts would react differently heading into a sea. The C&C 27s would plow through, and the N27 would be practically *stopped*. ====================== Proper helm technique can make a big difference getting through waves. True. But I wasn't the helmsman G. R. |
Msg to rhys
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:36:57 -0500, rhys wrote:
A hatch in the cockpit sole would make all the difference. Having worked extensively on Atomic 4s, you really want to get at 'em from above. The N27 I raced as crew on didn't have an A4 (some kind of two-stroke, I think, with a single-lever throttle/gearshifter) and certainly didn't have a cockpit hatch. No hatch in this one, but it's a 77 As I understand it, the Newport 27 is a C&C 27 hull with a different deck, and it weighed 5,500 lbs. compared to the C&C 27's 7,500 lbs. They certainly carried a different PHRF-LO rating I don't think the weight difference is that big, and last time I looked the Newport was carrying the same base rating as the C&C 27 Mark I at 198, but a lot of Mark I's take a big penalty for oversize pole and chute. and the Newport was slapped around trying to work to weather in any kind of wave action, because she couldn't "punch" due to light-ish weight. She *would* surf readily, however, in a broach reach or dead downwind, and going 10 or 11 knots in a smallish keelboat was fun....you learn to anticipate and enjoy the "ready to surf" sound. You got that right! By contrast, I've surfed...briefly...only twice on my 33', 10,000 lb. keelboat, and it took a hatful of wind to do even that. That's a Toronto problem. You would do a lot more surfing at the Kingston end of the lake where we get the wind and 150 miles of fetch to build good waves. Ryk |
Msg to rhys
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:11:32 -0500, Ryk
wrote: I don't think the weight difference is that big, and last time I looked the Newport was carrying the same base rating as the C&C 27 Mark I at 198, but a lot of Mark I's take a big penalty for oversize pole and chute. The one I crewed on was just white sail, and had a 222 PHRF-LO rating as I recall. The C&C 27 we fought for first with was under 200, but it had the biggest damn No. 1 you'd ever seen...G snip That's a Toronto problem. You would do a lot more surfing at the Kingston end of the lake where we get the wind and 150 miles of fetch to build good waves. I noticed that in mid-October coming out of Cobourg after two days of 25-30 knots from the north east...we've had a LOT of east wind in the last two years...anyway, waves were six feet on the beam, but when we headed away from the shore on a broad reach, we flew near hull speed. The wind dropped to 12 knots by Toronto and the seas to a mere two feet. They build quickly but they die quicker in the lake, although I understand out your way they can get a little squirrelly as you approach the St. Lawrence. Kingston's on our "to visit" list, but I have to get our passports in order in case we need to make long boards into U.S. waters to order to get back if the wind's straight out of Hamilton as is its tendency in the summer... R. |
Msg to rhys
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:59:21 -0500, Ryk
wrote: Oh, is nospam.com an actual address? Oops, no. I thought you had my actual e-mail. I'll send it backchannel. I can see why he took so long to sell. Jamie picked his up on ebay for a song and would be happy to get $5K for it. It's not pristine, but a great bargain opportunity for another young sailor with more time than money. Exactly. It's fine as a weekender/coastal/lake boat, and won't embarrass the skipper in club racing. Don't I know it. Fortunately he got the boat by taking advantage of that soft market It's the best shot at getting young people into sailing. It's not good that at 44 I am nearly fifteen years younger than our "median" age at my club...and we have a very active junior sail and racing program range. So I would suggest the following: if he likes the boat and it will suit him in the future, maybe he could "lend-lease" it to his club as an " learn to sail" boat, with a three-year-term. His club keeps it clean, keeps it maintained and hauls, launches and stores it. In return, he buys any major failed components not directly attributable to misuse, and provides all maintainence logs, spares, etc. We've tried that, but the club already has a bunch of Sharks in the program and some members are starting to complain about club boats eating up limited mooring space -- slips are a scarce resource at KYC. Too bad. If he got it for a song, maybe he could sell it for half a song, just to keep it in worthy hands. Sea Scouts/Cadets might jump at that, as might a club offering learn to sail for adults or for disadvantaged kids. One such organization is our club's Broad Reach Foundation. You can read about them he www.thenyc.com/newsletter/05July/05July.pdf or go to http://www.sailbroadreach.org/home.html for more info. They are usually *given* old boats, but I bet they'd be flexible on that point... That's one of my next shots, is the possibility of giving it away for a decent sized tax receipt. Not a bad idea at all. See my e-mail to you with some thoughts. I buy elaborate PCs for my business on a regular cycle whether I need to or not (although I usually do) primarily for the capital cost allowance/tax writedown aspects as much as for the "cool gear" factor. R. |
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