Motor starter question for the electrical gurus
 

OK, this is only partly on topic because the refrigerator is in our
kitchen but cut me some slack for my contributions to boat design.
Besides, any of us that have electric motors with large starting loads
should learn something and I don’t know where else to ask.

Our two year old Amanna refrigerator went into constant no-start,
thermal trip, cool down , start attempt, thermal trip cycle. Good by
$200 worth of food.

The repairman took out the starting module which is about one and a
half inches square and put in a much larger unit which is mostly a big
honking capacitor. He said that the new freon gas is causing problems
with compressor lubrication and it just needs an extra boost. Since
the "Hard Start Module" (they call it) overdrives the motor, they can’t
leave it in long term and have to come back and replace the
compressor. It’s under warranty but we pay labor.

I always thought the capacitor in a motor start unit made the start
easier on the motor. The fridge certainly seems to start easily now,
you can’t even hear it. I’ve done some research and the compressor and
starter unit they will put in will be identical to what we had.

This sure feels like a design issue and marginal starter unit to me. I
think we might be better off just leaving it as it is now with the
nice big capacitor to get it turning.

Any (informed) advice?

(I can make up all the wise ass comments I need all by myself.)

--

Roger Long

Motor starter question for the electrical gurus
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:8qmpf.33883$XJ5.23895
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

Our two year old Amanna refrigerator went into constant no-start,
thermal trip, cool down , start attempt, thermal trip cycle. Good by
$200 worth of food.



This is still under warranty, right?

If yes, simply tell them to replace it with a new unit under warranty
that has the proper compressor in it, not to try to patch it with
excessive starting current which will surely make it fail down the
road...hopefully for them, out of warranty.

The compressor design is faulty for higher pressure gasses and they tried
to get away with using up the old compressors, but failed.

I also question the pressures. Did he actually hook up a set of
refridgeration guages to the refridgerant lines of the fridge, if it had
any to begin with? Without reading the pressures on real guages, he
can't tell what's wrong with the refridgerant loops in it. As a fridge
has a fixed orifice into the evaporator(s), not an expansion valve like
your AC, the slightest piece of leftover manufacturing crap left in the
lines works its way through the system until it nearly blocks the tiniest
constriction in the loop...the evaporator's inlet orifice/capillary tube.
This causes high head pressure and very slow bleed down, even though what
goes past it will cool the fridge, eventually. A blockage of this type,
easily seen on a pressure guage as high head pressure on the high side
and low suction pressure as the compressor sucks the evaporator dry on
the low side, will cause hard starting because the head pressure doesn't
drop by the time it needs to start again, cooling so poorly. The only
way to troubleshoot this is with guages connected. Most home fridges
have no guage ports so we can make it cheaper.

AS it has operated a lot with stalled or near-stalled compressor, the
windings in the compressor have been overheated, over and over, causing
much stress and cooking the winding insulation from just too much
current, even after it's running. The replacement fridge won't have this
half-burned-out compressor, its most expensive part. It's the same kind
of failure mode that (ON TOPIC!!) would be caused by you buying the
trawler they forgot to put oil into the port engine but caught it in time
before the engine locked. I wouldn't want that stressed port engine
that's under warranty, would you? Same idea, here...(c;

Just call the nice man and tell him to bring your new fridge and take
this one back to its defective manufacturer. It's only fair....

"Hard Start Kit" my ass.......

Motor starter question for the electrical gurus
 

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:38:44 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

/;/'
Our two year old Amanna refrigerator went into constant no-start,
thermal trip, cool down , start attempt, thermal trip cycle. Good by
$200 worth of food.

The repairman took out the starting module which is about one and a
half inches square and put in a much larger unit which is mostly a big
honking capacitor. He said that the new freon gas is causing problems
with compressor lubrication and it just needs an extra boost. Since
the "Hard Start Module" (they call it) overdrives the motor, they can’t
leave it in long term and have to come back and replace the
compressor. It’s under warranty but we pay labor.

I always thought the capacitor in a motor start unit made the start
easier on the motor. The fridge certainly seems to start easily now,
you can’t even hear it. I’ve done some research and the compressor and
starter unit they will put in will be identical to what we had.

This sure feels like a design issue and marginal starter unit to me. I
think we might be better off just leaving it as it is now with the
nice big capacitor to get it turning.

Any (informed) advice?

(I can make up all the wise ass comments I need all by myself.)


If the vendor wants to replace the compressor and starter unit under
warranty, they probably know a couple of things you (and I) dont.....
It could be just the service history of the original components was
unsatisfactory. Why sweat it?

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Motor starter question for the electrical gurus
 

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:56:09 GMT, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

If the vendor wants to replace the compressor and starter unit under
warranty, they probably know a couple of things you (and I) dont.....
It could be just the service history of the original components was
unsatisfactory. Why sweat it?

=====================================

I agree. Something is not right with the original, and with consumer
grade appliances it's generally more cost effective for them to
replace the whole thing.

Motor starter question for the electrical gurus
 

Larry you should be on real t.v. soon bfore you explode with your
bull****.

Larry wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in news:8qmpf.33883$XJ5.23895
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

Our two year old Amanna refrigerator went into constant no-start,
thermal trip, cool down , start attempt, thermal trip cycle. Good by
$200 worth of food.



This is still under warranty, right?

If yes, simply tell them to replace it with a new unit under warranty
that has the proper compressor in it, not to try to patch it with
excessive starting current which will surely make it fail down the
road...hopefully for them, out of warranty.

The compressor design is faulty for higher pressure gasses and they tried
to get away with using up the old compressors, but failed.

I also question the pressures. Did he actually hook up a set of
refridgeration guages to the refridgerant lines of the fridge, if it had
any to begin with? Without reading the pressures on real guages, he
can't tell what's wrong with the refridgerant loops in it. As a fridge
has a fixed orifice into the evaporator(s), not an expansion valve like
your AC, the slightest piece of leftover manufacturing crap left in the
lines works its way through the system until it nearly blocks the tiniest
constriction in the loop...the evaporator's inlet orifice/capillary tube.
This causes high head pressure and very slow bleed down, even though what
goes past it will cool the fridge, eventually. A blockage of this type,
easily seen on a pressure guage as high head pressure on the high side
and low suction pressure as the compressor sucks the evaporator dry on
the low side, will cause hard starting because the head pressure doesn't
drop by the time it needs to start again, cooling so poorly. The only
way to troubleshoot this is with guages connected. Most home fridges
have no guage ports so we can make it cheaper.

AS it has operated a lot with stalled or near-stalled compressor, the
windings in the compressor have been overheated, over and over, causing
much stress and cooking the winding insulation from just too much
current, even after it's running. The replacement fridge won't have this
half-burned-out compressor, its most expensive part. It's the same kind
of failure mode that (ON TOPIC!!) would be caused by you buying the
trawler they forgot to put oil into the port engine but caught it in time
before the engine locked. I wouldn't want that stressed port engine
that's under warranty, would you? Same idea, here...(c;

Just call the nice man and tell him to bring your new fridge and take
this one back to its defective manufacturer. It's only fair....

"Hard Start Kit" my ass.......

Motor starter question for the electrical gurus
 

Larry you should be on real t.v. soon bfore you explode with your
bull****.

Larry wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in news:8qmpf.33883$XJ5.23895
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

Our two year old Amanna refrigerator went into constant no-start,
thermal trip, cool down , start attempt, thermal trip cycle. Good by
$200 worth of food.



This is still under warranty, right?

If yes, simply tell them to replace it with a new unit under warranty
that has the proper compressor in it, not to try to patch it with
excessive starting current which will surely make it fail down the
road...hopefully for them, out of warranty.

The compressor design is faulty for higher pressure gasses and they tried
to get away with using up the old compressors, but failed.

I also question the pressures. Did he actually hook up a set of
refridgeration guages to the refridgerant lines of the fridge, if it had
any to begin with? Without reading the pressures on real guages, he
can't tell what's wrong with the refridgerant loops in it. As a fridge
has a fixed orifice into the evaporator(s), not an expansion valve like
your AC, the slightest piece of leftover manufacturing crap left in the
lines works its way through the system until it nearly blocks the tiniest
constriction in the loop...the evaporator's inlet orifice/capillary tube.
This causes high head pressure and very slow bleed down, even though what
goes past it will cool the fridge, eventually. A blockage of this type,
easily seen on a pressure guage as high head pressure on the high side
and low suction pressure as the compressor sucks the evaporator dry on
the low side, will cause hard starting because the head pressure doesn't
drop by the time it needs to start again, cooling so poorly. The only
way to troubleshoot this is with guages connected. Most home fridges
have no guage ports so we can make it cheaper.

AS it has operated a lot with stalled or near-stalled compressor, the
windings in the compressor have been overheated, over and over, causing
much stress and cooking the winding insulation from just too much
current, even after it's running. The replacement fridge won't have this
half-burned-out compressor, its most expensive part. It's the same kind
of failure mode that (ON TOPIC!!) would be caused by you buying the
trawler they forgot to put oil into the port engine but caught it in time
before the engine locked. I wouldn't want that stressed port engine
that's under warranty, would you? Same idea, here...(c;

Just call the nice man and tell him to bring your new fridge and take
this one back to its defective manufacturer. It's only fair....

"Hard Start Kit" my ass.......

Motor starter question for the electrical gurus
 

I believe that the capacitor actually gives the phase shift necessary to
cause a single phase motor to start in a particular direction. I could be
wrong.




"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
OK, this is only partly on topic because the refrigerator is in our
kitchen but cut me some slack for my contributions to boat design.
Besides, any of us that have electric motors with large starting loads
should learn something and I don't know where else to ask.

Our two year old Amanna refrigerator went into constant no-start, thermal
trip, cool down , start attempt, thermal trip cycle. Good by $200 worth of
food.

The repairman took out the starting module which is about one and a half
inches square and put in a much larger unit which is mostly a big honking
capacitor. He said that the new freon gas is causing problems with
compressor lubrication and it just needs an extra boost. Since the "Hard
Start Module" (they call it) overdrives the motor, they can't leave it in
long term and have to come back and replace the compressor. It's under
warranty but we pay labor.

I always thought the capacitor in a motor start unit made the start easier
on the motor. The fridge certainly seems to start easily now, you can't
even hear it. I've done some research and the compressor and starter unit
they will put in will be identical to what we had.

This sure feels like a design issue and marginal starter unit to me. I
think we might be better off just leaving it as it is now with the nice
big capacitor to get it turning.

Any (informed) advice?

(I can make up all the wise ass comments I need all by myself.)

--

Roger Long