On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:58:48 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

Higher or lower than being attacked and sunk by a whale?

===============

Probably lower but who knows. Anyone who has a need to feel
absolutely safe and secure at all times should probably not be on a
boat in the first place. There are too many unknowns for anyone to
claim absolute safety.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:11:09 GMT, Gary wrote:

I forgot the sea mines. Are there still sea mines left from
World War II ?
Persian Gulf (Gulf War) but not elsewhere.

====================

It's my understanding that most mines are magnetically actuated so not
much of an issue for plastic boats in any case. I'd rank it somewhere
near collision with a submarine.

I agree. Arrgghhh, thar she blows!
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:58:48 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

Higher or lower than being attacked and sunk by a whale?

===============

Probably lower but who knows. Anyone who has a need to feel
absolutely safe and secure at all times should probably not be on a
boat in the first place. There are too many unknowns for anyone to
claim absolute safety.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:11:09 GMT, Gary wrote:

I forgot the sea mines. Are there still sea mines left from
World War II ?
Persian Gulf (Gulf War) but not elsewhere.

====================

It's my understanding that most mines are magnetically actuated so not
much of an issue for plastic boats in any case. I'd rank it somewhere
near collision with a submarine.

"MMC" wrote:
Yeah, but at least with poopy we can have some fun:}

Thanks MMC but this isn't a troll.

I'm still trying to decide between a Tayana Vancouver 460
and a Beneteau 473 !

The Tayana has a collision bulkhead but may be less stable
(AVS = 110 degrees) than the Beneteau (AVS = 120 degrees).

So if the probability of getting capsized by a breaking wave
is greater than the probability of a collision then it may make
more sense to get the Beneteau than the Tayana.

"d parker" wrote:
wrote:

How would you rate the followings in terms of the number of
incidents involving loss of lives along the major cruising routes
each year ?

Unpredictable storms (during long crossings)
Rogue waves
Shipping containers
Whales
Pirates
Icebergs
Submarines

Others ?

The big one you missed is Sailors who die at home while on the internet
replying to Trolls.

Why are yous et on those two boats? They are quite different, so I'm a
bit surprised your'e down to these two finalists. IMHO, a collision
bulkhead, while nice, should not be at the top of the consideration
list. A collision that would damage your hull to the extent of
flooding the boat is not very likely, compared to some events that the
stability and seaworthiness of the boat have more of an effect on.
Especially considering what the outcome of a collision is, bulkhead or
not. Do you also assume that the colision will be in such a location
taht the balast will be worth the other risks?

What attracts you to these two boats?

mickey

mickey wrote:
Why are yous et on those two boats? They are quite different, so I'm a
bit surprised your'e down to these two finalists. IMHO, a collision
bulkhead, while nice, should not be at the top of the consideration
list. A collision that would damage your hull to the extent of
flooding the boat is not very likely, compared to some events that the
stability and seaworthiness of the boat have more of an effect on.
Especially considering what the outcome of a collision is, bulkhead or
not. Do you also assume that the colision will be in such a location
taht the balast will be worth the other risks?

What attracts you to these two boats?

mickey

Almost unintelligible.

Gaz

"mickey" wrote:
Why are you set on those two boats? They are quite
different, so I'm a bit surprised your'e down to these
two finalists. IMHO, a collision bulkhead, while nice,
should not be at the top of the consideration list.
A collision that would damage your hull to the extent
of flooding the boat is not very likely, compared to
some events that the stability and seaworthiness of the
boat have more of an effect on. Especially considering
what the outcome of a collision is, bulkhead or not.
Do you also assume that the colision will be in such
a location taht the balast will be worth the other risks?

What attracts you to these two boats?

I need at least 3 staterooms (one for the litter boxes)
and 2 heads (so Olive can have an en-suite head).

I don't need a boat as heavy as a Tayana but I just like
the layout of the Vancouver 460 because of the pilothouse.
However, this seems to be the only boat with 3 staterooms
and a pilothouse which I can find around here for under
$400,000. So if it's not stable enough for going offshore
I'll have to get something without a pilothouse.

Then I just happened to find a beautiful 2005 Beneteau 473
for sale at a good price. I've also considered Hunters and
Catalinas but don't like them as much. Some Catalinas have
an AVS of 105 degrees so they're even less stable than the
Vancouver 460. Bavarias are also nice and have Kevlar in
bow sections for increased impact and puncture resistance.

I talked to Bob Harris (designer of the Vancouver 460) on
Friday and he said he's going to email me later to address
my concerns. He also told me that an AVS of 110 degrees
is fine for this type of boat even though some people here
think it's not good enough.

wrote:
"mickey" wrote:

What attracts you to these two boats?


I need at least 3 staterooms (one for the litter boxes)
and 2 heads (so Olive can have an en-suite head).

I don't see why you have to devote a stateroom for a litterbox. It
isn't that hard to build one into any larger boat just by rearranging
a locker. Its no more difficult than finding a spot for A/C, etc.

As for a second head, its handy if you have a lot of guests,
especially not close family. However, most cruisers end up with fewer
long term guests than they expected. It is nice having a spare since
head problems never occur at convenient times, although on a few
occasions I've been able to tell my wife that I can't go to the craft
festival because I really have to rebuild the head. On the other
hand, two of anything means more maintenance.

Jeff wrote:
wrote:
"mickey" wrote:

What attracts you to these two boats?

I need at least 3 staterooms (one for the litter boxes)
and 2 heads (so Olive can have an en-suite head).

I don't see why you have to devote a stateroom for a litter
box. It isn't that hard to build one into any larger boat just
by rearranging a locker. Its no more difficult than finding
a spot for A/C, etc.

As for a second head, its handy if you have a lot of guests,
especially not close family. However, most cruisers end up
with fewer long term guests than they expected. It is nice
having a spare since head problems never occur at convenient
times, although on a few occasions I've been able to tell my
wife that I can't go to the craft festival because I really have
to rebuild the head. On the other hand, two of anything
means more maintenance.

I have 6 cats and need at least 3 or 4 litter boxes :-)

wrote:
Jeff wrote:

wrote:

"mickey" wrote:

What attracts you to these two boats?

I need at least 3 staterooms (one for the litter boxes)
and 2 heads (so Olive can have an en-suite head).


I don't see why you have to devote a stateroom for a litter
box. It isn't that hard to build one into any larger boat just
by rearranging a locker. Its no more difficult than finding
a spot for A/C, etc.

As for a second head, its handy if you have a lot of guests,
especially not close family. However, most cruisers end up
with fewer long term guests than they expected. It is nice
having a spare since head problems never occur at convenient
times, although on a few occasions I've been able to tell my
wife that I can't go to the craft festival because I really have
to rebuild the head. On the other hand, two of anything
means more maintenance.


I have 6 cats and need at least 3 or 4 litter boxes :-)
Well, you don't need two heads because you won't have any guest.
krj

"MMC" wrote in message
news
I agree. Arrgghhh, thar she blows!
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:58:48 GMT, "MMC" wrote:

Higher or lower than being attacked and sunk by a whale?

===============


I've read/heard of the whale problem. Seems you may hit one sleeping on
the surface which may be any species. Or pilot whales have been said to
deliberately attack a sailboat, especially a boat with a light colored hull
underwater. The thinking being, they think they are attacking a predator
such as a shark or orca.
BTW Ever see orcas attack seals and sealions? Like a cat with a mouse. And
the end is generally the same also.
Gordon