just me wrote:
How many here have one or both of these and have actually used them?





Never used one for real in a full storm, but years ago did experiment
to devise tactics & found them all but useless if not outright dangerous.

The boat will still lay beam on almost no matter how big the sea anchor
is; but in the moderate conditions we tested a 32ft yacht, well offshore
it provided a violent snubbing. No wonder books regularly report they
"fail" & probably it's just a well.

Most boats even high wooded motor boats, are safest just left alone to
lie a hull in all but the most extreme conditions & after that to turn &
run is about all that's left; then & only then in my view would a sea
anchor be of some use just to slow you, also the saloon carpet or a sail
laced to the line slightly aft will stop any breaking water reaching you.

K

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:08:31 -0600, "just me"
wrote:

How many here have one or both of these and have actually used them?

I don't have either, or any practical opinions about how to use them.
However, the December Cruising World has several relevant articles and
some references.

Much as I love surfing, the steering can get tiring in the big stuff.
I can imagine offshore conditions where I would welcome some drag to
work against the stern spinning out, especially if I had already had
enough fun.

Ryk

Hi K

Read the book titled Sea-Anchors and Drogues by Hinz. Your frustrating
experiences are described in the book and are a common reason why
people get frustrated and abandon the sea anchors and drogue idea. The
problems you described are remedied easily.

But then again, you may never have a reason to use those tools.
Bob

Bob wrote:
Hi K

Read the book titled Sea-Anchors and Drogues by Hinz. Your frustrating
experiences are described in the book and are a common reason why
people get frustrated and abandon the sea anchors and drogue idea. The
problems you described are remedied easily.

But then again, you may never have a reason to use those tools.
Bob


Thanks for that Bob I'll have a snoop. It's been my experience that the
difficulties are bad enough when the conditions are tolerable, but I'd
be worried in a real situation.

However I take your point & will do some reading, thanks again

K

spivey wrote:
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:43:00 +1100, "K. Smith" wrote:


just me wrote:

How many here have one or both of these and have actually used them?





Never used one for real in a full storm, but years ago did experiment
to devise tactics & found them all but useless if not outright dangerous.

The boat will still lay beam on almost no matter how big the sea anchor
is; but in the moderate conditions we tested a 32ft yacht, well offshore
it provided a violent snubbing. No wonder books regularly report they
"fail" & probably it's just a well.

Most boats even high wooded motor boats, are safest just left alone to
lie a hull in all but the most extreme conditions & after that to turn &
run is about all that's left; then & only then in my view would a sea
anchor be of some use just to slow you, also the saloon carpet or a sail
laced to the line slightly aft will stop any breaking water reaching you.

K


What would someone recommend for a 23' sailboat with a dory bow,
tumbleholme stern, 9' beam and a long, straight keel drawing about 4
feet. (not a fin type). I have an 8' surplus cargo chute but from what
I've read you need to carry 600 feet of line to deploy in 20 foot
seas. Not really an option for most small boats. I tried a similar
setup in a different boat but there was not enough weather to get an
idea of how it would work. The rudder can't be chained off on this
boat so how do you avoid being wrecked or swamped from the stern if
you run off with a drogue of some sort? Thanks.

My suggestions are;

that on a 23ftr well offshore (as contemplated) where space/weight are
a real issue you could maybe find a way to slow the boat when running.
Experiment in controlled conditions, you'll soon find a setup that suits
you & it might be as simple as dragging a tyre which when in it's cover
can double as a tough fender.

As for the boat a lashed to lee tiller, tie everything down & find
yourself a comfy spot to read. (checking for traffic every once in a
while; I was on a yacht lying a hull in a blow & in the middle of what
we thought was the end of the world a container ship steamed through out
of the gloom, not even bothering to roll:-))

K

Tamaroak wrote:
My experience with motor boats is that when they lose power they always
face beam to the seas. Larger boats with deep keels take longer to
assume this position, but they all seem to get there quick enough. Some
say the right wave equal to the beam of the boat will flip it over.
The rule of thumb is a breaking wave one third the beam of the boat is
dangerous. (Heavy Weather Sailing)

Neither of my boats would survive that, and I would probably have just
enough time to deploy the EPIRB and go over the side before they sank.

My understanding of the distinction between drogues and sea anchors is
that drogues go over the stern to keep a sailboat from going too fast
down the face of a wave. Sea anchors are deployed from the bow (from
powerboats anyway) to keep the boat facing the waves in the only
position they can handle big water. The boats only move at 1 - 1.5 knots
in this condition. If I deployed either of my sea anchors from their
respective boats' stern in any kind of seas, they would be pooped and
sink. No one that I've read recommends deployment of a sea anchor from
anyplace other than the bow of a powerboat.

I think drogues and sea anchors are different designs of devices for the
same purpose. You can rig either off the bow or stern or one of the
quarters. To me the drogue is less drag than a sea anchor and serves
more to slow the boat while the sea anchor trys to stop the boat. That
is why drogues are more likely rigged from the stern (to slow the boat)
and sea anchors from the bow (to stop the boat or minimize drift). If
you rig a drogue from the bow you risk damaging the rudder with the
continued backward movement of the boat. If you rig a sea anchor from
the stern you risk waves breaking into the cockpit of the stationary boat.

The sea anchor has to be big enough to stop the boat and hold it facing
the waves. This takes a huge parachute. It is hooked to your ground
tackle and you may need 300' of rode. Having some chain in there to
provide a catenary effect is recommended. And you have to continually
watch for chafing. This process involves considerable stress on the
point the rode connects to the boat. One needs to be able to add a
little length (you probably aren't going to be shortening it any) and
have old fire hose, rags or something else where the rode meets the
fairleads, hawsehole, or whatever.

The Jordan series drogue seems to be the hot setup these days.

And if you pay attention to the weather and nothing fails on your boat,
you've wasted the cost of the sea anchor, just like all that money
you've spent on insurance over the years. The only real difference is
that if the **** really hits the fan and you really need this device,
you get to collect instead of your beneficiaries.

Capt. Jeff

My experience with motor boats is that when they lose power they always
face beam to the seas. Larger boats with deep keels take longer to
assume this position, but they all seem to get there quick enough. Some
say the right wave equal to the beam of the boat will flip it over.
Neither of my boats would survive that, and I would probably have just
enough time to deploy the EPIRB and go over the side before they sank.

My understanding of the distinction between drogues and sea anchors is
that drogues go over the stern to keep a sailboat from going too fast
down the face of a wave. Sea anchors are deployed from the bow (from
powerboats anyway) to keep the boat facing the waves in the only
position they can handle big water. The boats only move at 1 - 1.5 knots
in this condition. If I deployed either of my sea anchors from their
respective boats' stern in any kind of seas, they would be pooped and
sink. No one that I've read recommends deployment of a sea anchor from
anyplace other than the bow of a powerboat.

The sea anchor has to be big enough to stop the boat and hold it facing
the waves. This takes a huge parachute. It is hooked to your ground
tackle and you may need 300' of rode. Having some chain in there to
provide a catenary effect is recommended. And you have to continually
watch for chafing. This process involves considerable stress on the
point the rode connects to the boat. One needs to be able to add a
little length (you probably aren't going to be shortening it any) and
have old fire hose, rags or something else where the rode meets the
fairleads, hawsehole, or whatever.

And if you pay attention to the weather and nothing fails on your boat,
you've wasted the cost of the sea anchor, just like all that money
you've spent on insurance over the years. The only real difference is
that if the **** really hits the fan and you really need this device,
you get to collect instead of your beneficiaries.

Capt. Jeff