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NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
OK, this is probably going to bring down the wrath of some self appointed
Usenet police but I have been around r.b.c long enough to ask. After receiving a number of requests I am thinking about expanding my line to include rode along with my anchors. They will be New England Premium 3 strand and ACCO high test chain. I can move a few of drums of chain fairly easily. My problem is I have to buy almost a mile of rope which makes me a bit nervous. Any of you guys interested in a few hundred feet of 5/8 or 3/4 3 strand at a bit under full spool prices? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:41:44 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: Any of you guys interested in a few hundred feet of 5/8 or 3/4 3 strand at a bit under full spool prices? ================================== Not me at the moment but I am interested in finding a high quality, galvanized, double jaw swivel capable of connecting my Spade S200 to 3/8 HT chain without sacrificing any strength (SWL 5500 lbs). |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
Maybe some 5/16 hi test chain
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:usNif.39192$sg5.17515@dukeread12... OK, this is probably going to bring down the wrath of some self appointed Usenet police but I have been around r.b.c long enough to ask. After receiving a number of requests I am thinking about expanding my line to include rode along with my anchors. They will be New England Premium 3 strand and ACCO high test chain. I can move a few of drums of chain fairly easily. My problem is I have to buy almost a mile of rope which makes me a bit nervous. Any of you guys interested in a few hundred feet of 5/8 or 3/4 3 strand at a bit under full spool prices? -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
"Wayne.B" wrote Not me at the moment but I am interested in finding a high quality, galvanized, double jaw swivel capable of connecting my Spade S200 to 3/8 HT chain without sacrificing any strength (SWL 5500 lbs). You and me both. I did get a lead yesterday from the guy at NE Rope and I am going to track it down today. I'll let you know what I find out. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a
long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts. "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:TEVif.40602$sg5.36630@dukeread12... "Wayne.B" wrote Not me at the moment but I am interested in finding a high quality, galvanized, double jaw swivel capable of connecting my Spade S200 to 3/8 HT chain without sacrificing any strength (SWL 5500 lbs). You and me both. I did get a lead yesterday from the guy at NE Rope and I am going to track it down today. I'll let you know what I find out. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:05:41 -0500, "Garland Gray II"
wrote: Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts. ============================================== I have found it necessary with an all chain rode and a windlass. This is my second boat with that combination and have ended up adding a swivel both times to avoid chain hockling and to ensure that the anchor comes up straight over the pulpit roller and in the right orientation. |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
What worries me is that they give you pin diameters but never seem to come
out with the actual breaking strength of the swivel. I am going to have to buy some samples and have a friend with a testing lab pull them for me before I will sell them. A swivel for 3/8" chain should make it to at least 15,000 pounds and I will bet none that I have found will do it. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:05:41 -0500, "Garland Gray II" wrote: Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts. ============================================== I have found it necessary with an all chain rode and a windlass. This is my second boat with that combination and have ended up adding a swivel both times to avoid chain hockling and to ensure that the anchor comes up straight over the pulpit roller and in the right orientation. |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:04:53 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: A swivel for 3/8" chain should make it to at least 15,000 pounds and I will bet none that I have found will do it. ================================== I share your concern but have not yet found one that claims to have an "HT" or G40 rating. I'll be interested to hear about your findings. Once you go over the SWL rating there is no guarantee that it will still swivel of course, but it would be nice to know that your boat is still attached. |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
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NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On 30 Nov 2005 05:20:41 -0800, "Keith"
wrote: Check out the WASI Powerball line at: http://www.swisstech-america.com/powerball.html ========================================= Interesting. Do they publish SWL and breaking strength specs? Any US distributors? Is their sizing in millimeters based on pin size or chain size? |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:05:41 -0500, "Garland Gray II" wrote: Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts. ============================================== I have found it necessary with an all chain rode and a windlass. This is my second boat with that combination and have ended up adding a swivel both times to avoid chain hockling and to ensure that the anchor comes up straight over the pulpit roller and in the right orientation. I just don't get it - not that I'm disputing it, as many seem to have the same problem... From my limited perspective, it seems you'd have to be in a whirlpool, or on the hook for months with a consistent direction of turn, to put any notable number of turns on a chain. Then, unless you've got a hundred feet out in a 10' anchorage, as you brought up the anchor, just letting it hang a bit once it comes off the bottom should unwind any turns you've accumulated. If you've got substantial chain on the bottom, a swivel won't do you any good until you tighten up, anyway, CF raising and waiting above. What am I missing? L8R Skip, not experienced with that problem despite all-chain rodes -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
That is exactly what I've got, yet I've had no problem w/ twisting. The
concensus of others in another group is those who have a problem w/ twisting, also have a swivel. But I won't argue w/ you : if you have a problem w/ twisting, you must have a problem. "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:05:41 -0500, "Garland Gray II" wrote: Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts. ============================================== I have found it necessary with an all chain rode and a windlass. This is my second boat with that combination and have ended up adding a swivel both times to avoid chain hockling and to ensure that the anchor comes up straight over the pulpit roller and in the right orientation. |
NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:39:57 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach at
gmail dotcom wrote: From my limited perspective, it seems you'd have to be in a whirlpool, or on the hook for months with a consistent direction of turn, to put any notable number of turns on a chain. That is definitely not the cause. We are rarely anchored more than a day or two at a time, and hardly ever in whirlpools! Then, unless you've got a hundred feet out in a 10' anchorage, as you brought up the anchor, just letting it hang a bit once it comes off the bottom should unwind any turns you've accumulated. I believe that part of the problem occurrs when retrieving chain. There seem to be some circumstances where the bow roller itself is a possible culprit, trying to impart a small rotational force, probably when the pull is slightly to one side. There is another situation that can arise if you have a rode that is partially 3 strand and partially chain. Under load, the 3 strand does a certain amount of twisting and untwisting. That was an issue on my old boat, and a swivel solved the problem. If you've got substantial chain on the bottom, a swivel won't do you any good until you tighten up, anyway, CF raising and waiting above. What am I missing? My biggest issue is with the anchor trying to come over the bow roller sideways or backwards. This may be specific to my particular configuration, but a swivel is definitely the cure. |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:39:57 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach at gmail dotcom wrote (earlier, quoted "" below): I believe that part of the problem occurrs when retrieving chain. There seem to be some circumstances where the bow roller itself is a possible culprit, trying to impart a small rotational force, probably when the pull is slightly to one side. Hm. From the description, I infer a "catenary" twist - that is, the twist is one way at one point and the other way going in the reverse - a twist imparted by the roller. In that case, twist would interfere with the retrieval immediately, and waiting for the swivel wouldn't make a difference, as the windlass-roller twist wouldn't be influenced by the roller-swivel portion (?) . There is another situation that can arise if you have a rode that is partially 3 strand and partially chain. Under load, the 3 strand does a certain amount of twisting and untwisting. That was an issue on my old boat, and a swivel solved the problem. Agreed, 3-strand will most likely twist under load - but if you're retrieving it under load, the 3-strand would bunch horribly in the locker, I'd think, as the strain was relieved and the memory recovered the twists (?) . If you've got substantial chain on the bottom, a swivel won't do you any good until you tighten up, anyway, CF raising and waiting above. What am I missing? My biggest issue is with the anchor trying to come over the bow roller sideways or backwards. This may be specific to my particular configuration, but a swivel is definitely the cure. Hm. How (unless you're referring to just hanging, rather than kedging with the windlass) would you get to sideways or backwards retrieval? My modus only (not that others don't, but it's how I do it), I have the boat go straight on the rode, not retrieving until it's very slack. If I overshoot a bit, I wait to blow down, and then resume. Whether in my chartering days, when it was always mostly 3-strand with minimal chain, or privately owned boats, when it was always all chain, I've never had a problem with twist. In the rare instance where I encounter an overlay, I simply back it out the foot or so to let it go back over the roller and start again. As to the anchor itself, we have a CQR, and the weight always puts it nose down, even if it tries to come aboard otherwise. So, has Glenn succeeded in destroying any of these to see about their strength relative to the chain itself? I read of many boats surviving hurricanes whose chains are so distorted they'll no longer fit in the gypsy, so I expect these swivels would cause serious deformation, or even failure, of the chain before breaking, themselves. It also seems that putting a serious load on, and then inducing twist, would be needed to do a "true-life" test... L8R Skip, in 2xweekly rehab, and coming along toward return to the boat for more work. New March and Post-July pix for those following, in the "Projects" folder... -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:23:24 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach at
gmail dotcom wrote: So, has Glenn succeeded in destroying any of these to see about their strength relative to the chain itself? I read of many boats surviving hurricanes whose chains are so distorted they'll no longer fit in the gypsy, so I expect these swivels would cause serious deformation, or even failure, of the chain before breaking, themselves. It also seems that putting a serious load on, and then inducing twist, would be needed to do a "true-life" test... ================================= I guess we'll have to wait and here from Glenn on the testing. The European stainless steel unit that someone recommended cost around $300 so it's not likely we'll see much "testing to destruction" on that one. I'd have some concerns about mixing a stainless swivel with galvanized chain and anchor in any case. If the chain distorts but you and the boat survive the hurricane, that's a small price to pay in my opinion. With 3/8 HT chain the difference between SWL (no permanent distortion), and ultimate breaking strength is about 10,000 lbs so it is easy to see how that could happen. |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
I have contacted several swivel sources to send me test samples. The
manufacturers have been fairly cooperative but the importers and distributors have been less interested so I will probably not be able to test every model. I did get a chance to pull an $80 Anchorlift stainless swivel and a length of ACCO and Campbell 3/8" HT (Grade 43 galvanized) over the weekend. The Anchorlift swivel fits the Spade S140 well and is rated for a working load of 12,500 pounds. We pulled it to the working load because I didn't want to destroy it and it deformed only a little. Overall length before the test was 3.782" and after it was 3.787". The pins were still straight. I hope to get in at least 3 or 4 more swivels in the next week or so and will test them when they get here. Anchorlift swivels are available he http://www.rivermarinesupply.com/xca...r_Swivels.html 3/8" Grade 43 chain is rated 5,400 lb working load and 16,200 minimum breaking strength. Both stress/strain curves were almost identical straight lines to about 11,000 pounds then they yielded and eventually broke at 16,800 for the Campbell and 17,200 for the ACCO. The interesting part was that there were 2 yield points and that the curve was "almost straight.". The first yield point was at about 6,500 lb. We saw a small blip and stopped to check if our mounting slipped. What had happened was that the zinc between the links collapsed. After resuming the test the line curved upwards. This was caused by the round links flattening out against each other. I did not try to measure the links but I suspect that the chain may have trouble fitting the notches in a chain wheel smoothly before it reaches the actual yield point. Once past the yield point you will need to buy new chain. However, if I were in a blow that put 10,000 pounds of load on my rode, retrieving the chain would be the last of my worries. :-) One interesting thing to note: While ACCO seems to be the recreational marine standard, the Campbell Grade 43 hot dip galvanized is virtually the same product. The ACCO galvanizing MAY be a little thicker but I could measure no difference. Campbell chain is carried by many more industrial supply houses than ACCO so it is easier to find locally without having to pay truck shipping and it is usually 15 to 20% less expensive. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:23:24 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach at gmail dotcom wrote: So, has Glenn succeeded in destroying any of these to see about their strength relative to the chain itself? I read of many boats surviving hurricanes whose chains are so distorted they'll no longer fit in the gypsy, so I expect these swivels would cause serious deformation, or even failure, of the chain before breaking, themselves. It also seems that putting a serious load on, and then inducing twist, would be needed to do a "true-life" test... ================================= I guess we'll have to wait and here from Glenn on the testing. The European stainless steel unit that someone recommended cost around $300 so it's not likely we'll see much "testing to destruction" on that one. I'd have some concerns about mixing a stainless swivel with galvanized chain and anchor in any case. If the chain distorts but you and the boat survive the hurricane, that's a small price to pay in my opinion. With 3/8 HT chain the difference between SWL (no permanent distortion), and ultimate breaking strength is about 10,000 lbs so it is easy to see how that could happen. |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:32:23 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: Campbell chain is carried by many more industrial supply houses than ACCO so it is easier to find locally without having to pay truck shipping and it is usually 15 to 20% less expensive. ================================== I was able to get free shipping and a decent price on Acco chain from a company in Indiana (actually drop shipped from PA as I recall): 1ST CHAIN SUPPLY, Div. of MPI 797 W. COMMERCIAL AVE. LOWELL, IN 46356 http://www.1st-chainsupply.com/ |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:32:23 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: The Anchorlift swivel fits the Spade S140 well and is rated for a working load of 12,500 pounds. ======================== Would it fit an S200 ? |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
Had to go try it to make sure. The answer is a definite maybe. I have
three S200s in stock and tried all of them. It fit fine on 2 of them but not the third. If you want to buy one and try it I will buy it off you if it doesn't work. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Wayne.B" wrote Glenn Ashmore wrote: The Anchorlift swivel fits the Spade S140 well and is rated for a working load of 12,500 pounds. ======================== Would it fit an S200 ? |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:24:12 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: Had to go try it to make sure. The answer is a definite maybe. I have three S200s in stock and tried all of them. It fit fine on 2 of them but not the third. If you want to buy one and try it I will buy it off you if it doesn't work. ========================== I assume you are using their model # 964410? |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
Yes. The 5/16 to 1/2" version. For the $30 difference I see no need to
risk the smaller one. BTW, That was a pretty good price but I just looked in the Yellow Pages under "Industrial Supply" and called a couple of local companies at random asking about 3/8" Grade 43 hot galvanized. Campbell was $756/drum plus $60 shipping and $45 sales tax. Total $861 or $2.15/foot. It would be $2.35/foot for half drums. ACCO was about 15 cents/foot higher. This is the same chain that WM wants $4.49/foot for. It really doesn't matter which chain you get as long as you don't mention anchors, boats or marine when you ask for the price. :-) -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:24:12 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore" wrote: Had to go try it to make sure. The answer is a definite maybe. I have three S200s in stock and tried all of them. It fit fine on 2 of them but not the third. If you want to buy one and try it I will buy it off you if it doesn't work. ========================== I assume you are using their model # 964410? |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:24:12 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: Had to go try it to make sure. The answer is a definite maybe. I have three S200s in stock and tried all of them. It fit fine on 2 of them but not the third. If you want to buy one and try it I will buy it off you if it doesn't work. ==================================== My swivel arrived today from River Marine, and like you said, it almost fit my S200. Rather than take you up on your generous offer, I got out my favorite machine tool (old belt sander) and took a few thou off the end of the shank and added a little chamfer to the edges. That removed the galvanizing in those spots of course so I touched it up with some CRC cold spray galvanizing (gray paint?). It now fits fine and seems to work well, nice sleek looking unit. We'll have to see how well the cold spray holds up on the shank. Should I have any concerns regarding the stainless steel and the galvanized chain in close contact? |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
The bridle that came w/ my boat consisted of, in order, 2 lines (of
course), 2 ss thimbles, 2 ss shackles, 1 ss ring, 1 ss shackle, maybe 4 inches galv. chain, and lastly ss grab hook to hook on anchor chain. 4 inch galv chain became rusty chain in fairly short order. So I replaced all the ss items w/ galv stuff. Plastic thimbles. Since you have it, try it and see. "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:24:12 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore" wrote: Had to go try it to make sure. The answer is a definite maybe. I have three S200s in stock and tried all of them. It fit fine on 2 of them but not the third. If you want to buy one and try it I will buy it off you if it doesn't work. ==================================== My swivel arrived today from River Marine, and like you said, it almost fit my S200. Rather than take you up on your generous offer, I got out my favorite machine tool (old belt sander) and took a few thou off the end of the shank and added a little chamfer to the edges. That removed the galvanizing in those spots of course so I touched it up with some CRC cold spray galvanizing (gray paint?). It now fits fine and seems to work well, nice sleek looking unit. We'll have to see how well the cold spray holds up on the shank. Should I have any concerns regarding the stainless steel and the galvanized chain in close contact? |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
That CRC stuff works pretty darn well. I have been running an experiment
with a piece of galvanized sheet and a plain steel sheet coated with CRC for 2 years now and the CRC seems to be holding up pretty well to the weather. Not seawater though. 316 Stainless is pretty far down the galvanic scale from zinc so you will probably eat the zinc off the first few links if left in the water for the whole season. The trade off is you don't have to worry much about the swivel and it is fairly easy to chop off a few links of chain. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:24:12 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore" wrote: Had to go try it to make sure. The answer is a definite maybe. I have three S200s in stock and tried all of them. It fit fine on 2 of them but not the third. If you want to buy one and try it I will buy it off you if it doesn't work. ==================================== My swivel arrived today from River Marine, and like you said, it almost fit my S200. Rather than take you up on your generous offer, I got out my favorite machine tool (old belt sander) and took a few thou off the end of the shank and added a little chamfer to the edges. That removed the galvanizing in those spots of course so I touched it up with some CRC cold spray galvanizing (gray paint?). It now fits fine and seems to work well, nice sleek looking unit. We'll have to see how well the cold spray holds up on the shank. Should I have any concerns regarding the stainless steel and the galvanized chain in close contact? |
Re Swivels (was): NE Ropes 3 Premium strand
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:32:26 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: the CRC seems to be holding up pretty well to the weather. Not seawater though. ============================= I spend almost all of my time in salt water so we'll see soon enough. I've touched up a couple of other small fittings with it this year and it seems to be doing OK so far. Perhaps you could use your influence with Spade and get them to move that hole in the shank back an RCH or two. |
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