Mac 26
 

In article ,
Jim Cate wrote:
Check them out yourself Doug. - They are different. (Incidentally, we
went through this same discussion on the asa ng ad nausium for several
months last year. Someone finally checked out the hulls of the two
boats and admitted that they were, in fact, substantially different.)

Wow... they're different!!


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Mac 26
 

That must explain why the trailer bunks for the two different models
are exactly the same.



Jim Cate wrote:
Check them out yourself Doug. - They are different.

Y'know, this is like arguing with a religious loony, only
this guy is waving a Macgregor advertising brochure like
it's Gospel.

I have "checked them out" and that's why I say they're the
same.... because they are.


(Incidentally, we
went through this same discussion on the asa ng ad nausium for several
months last year. Someone finally checked out the hulls of the two
boats and admitted that they were, in fact, substantially different.)


Really? Who?


"Upper bearing"?? What does the mast bear on at the upper end?


As understood, it bears on the movable elements of the upper bearing
structure, which are rotatably constrained within the fixed elements,
which in turn are fastened to and constrained by the lateral stays and
the jib stay.


Interesting... most rotating masts just lead the shrouds &
forestay to a common point, no bearing needed...



BTW what benefit does a rotating mast give the boat?



They were developed on competetive cats and trimarans, because they
improve the forward force vectors by eliminating turbulence behind the
the luff of the sail caused by the mast, which projects into the airflow
beyond the luff and tends to break up the airflow in the region behind
the mast. In any event, owners of competetive multi-hull craft have
been using them for several years. - Whether, or by how much, the system
improves the Mac's response I really don't know.


So you repeat all this blah-blah because it impresses you?

Rotating masts are great on boats that are light & fast
enough to sail at high speeds. C-scows use them, Tasars use
them, and many multihulls. They work better with a means of
controlling the rotation, which the Mac26M doesn't have

On slow boats like the Mac26M, it doesn't do anything except
impress people who don't know better.




Lots of owners seem to like their 26Xs and the new 26Ms. - They don't
want to part with them.

I'm sure that's true. And the Mac discussion lists are like
a church meeting, everybody loves & praises their boat and
calls sailors with other boats stupid for not realizing it.

.... - In any event, hope you get some good sailing
weather this weekend.


Thanks, but unfortunately we're not going sailing this
weekend, we're driving hundreds of miles to overeat & watch
TV. Not my choice, but it's tradition.

DSK

Mac 26
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

In article ,
Jim Cate wrote:


No experience on real sailboats? Well, I sailed a number of sailboats
in the 30 - 40 ft range for some 25 years before I bought the Mac 26M. -
They included several Catalinas, several Cals, an Endeavor 32, an O'Day
37, a Valiant 40, etc., etc. - Are any of those "real sailboats" John?



And, you picked a Mac. That either says a lot about your judgement or
you sail in very protected waters. We need to know our limitations
Jimmy.



Interesting how you quickly change the subject and dodge the issue when
you see you got your ass kicked, Johnny. - My comments about sailing
a number of larger boats was in response to your snide remark that:

Yeah, if you have no experience on real sailboats, sure, they're fun
to sail.

You should have simply stepped up and admitted that you lost that one.



Most sailboat owners in the Houston-Clear Lake - Kemah area leave their
boats sitting in their slips 99.9% of the time.



So, what's your point?


The point is that most owners of the "real sailboats" you keep talking
about don't often make use of their capability. I think it's better to
have a boat that is sailed often rather than a boat that COULD be sailed
to the Bahamas but is seldom taken out. I think that the Mac owners
probably get in more time sailing their boats than most owners of ocean
going vessels..




You're damn right I'd be embarrassed. They junk and look like it.




What exactly are you talking about John.? - "They junk and look like
it"! - What the Hell does that mean?



Macs look cheap and they are. They're junk. Not sure how much more
clear I can be.


If you had said that, it would have been clear, but that's not what you
said. - In any event, you seem to be running out of things to say about
the Macs, Johnny.


But your statement: "They junk and look like it." is jibberish, and it's
actually rather typical of your comments John.

Then stop posting your bs. Fess up.. are you a Mac dealer? There's no
embarrassment about that... well, actually there is.



Nope. If I were a Mac dealer I woudn't waste my time with sickos like
you. I would be afraid that if you bought one you would give the Macs a
bad name.



Wooooooo - I'm a sicko! Call the police!!

Don't worry, I wouldn't buy one.



Again, I'm not a Mac dealer, and I don't have any financial interest in
the company. Like most Mac owners, I enjoy sailling the boat. - What I
am trying to do is to provide some degree of balance to the discussion.
- Thus, I don't claim the Macs are suited for extended blue water
sailing, crossings, or the like, and I don't claim they are great for
racing, etc. On the other hand, they are great boats, and they seem to
be the subject of some ridiculous criticism and highly misleading
criticism on this ng.

Jim

Mac 26
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

In article ,
Jim Cate wrote:


If their rigging is inadequate, then obviously the boats would be
falling apart whenever they are taken out in any significant weather.
With 40,000 of them out there, hundreds of the the boats would be lost
or torn apart every year, and Mac owners and guests would be drowned or
stranded every year. Yet that doesn't happen except in very rare instances.



Yup. You got it. They fall apart in the SF bay. Even the dealer
recommends people not sail them here without extensive work.



Really John? How many of them have "fallen apart" in the SF bay? 200?
100? And what, exactly is the "extensive work" the dealer recommends?
Once again, you spout off those generalities with only a single ancedote
to back it up. On the Mac discussion groups, there are many reports of
Macs being sailed on the SF Bay and up and down the California coast.

Where's your evidence that the Mac rigging is failing or coming apart,
Johnny? What statistics do you have on the number of Macson on which
the rigging failed?



See previous. -

I did.


And, I saw a Mac last year that could not sail in
Raccoon Straight. We circled them and ask if they needed help, they
said, no, and dropped the sail and started the engine. Made straight
for Tiberon. Gee, and it was only blowing about 22 kts.


Johnny, this is a good example of your lack of any understanding of even
the most basic principles of logic and statistics. - You seem to think
that (your version of) a single instance proves that the Macs aren't
safe for coastal cruising, etc. You also don't know the particular
circumstances of that little episode. - At a minimum, you need a basic
course in logic.




No problem backing up your statements Johnny? Then why don't you get
busy and start? So far all you have done is post more of your ridiculous
biased assertions, with nothing backing them up. Think about how that
makes you look to others monitoring this discussion, John!.



Already did.



Sure you did. - By citing one example.



No problem backing up your statements? - Then have at it.



Done did it.


Nope. All you did was to provide further examples of your own ignorance.

Jim

Mac 26
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Jim Cate wrote:

If their rigging is inadequate, then obviously the boats would be
falling apart whenever they are taken out in any significant weather.
With 40,000 of them out there, hundreds of the the boats would be lost
or torn apart every year, and Mac owners and guests would be drowned or
stranded every year. Yet that doesn't happen except in very rare
instances.

Yup. You got it. They fall apart in the SF bay. Even the dealer
recommends people not sail them here without extensive work.


Really John? How many of them have "fallen apart" in the SF bay? 200?
100? And what, exactly is the "extensive work" the dealer recommends?
Once again, you spout off those generalities with only a single ancedote
to back it up. On the Mac discussion groups, there are many reports of Macs
being sailed on the SF Bay and up and down the California coast.
Where's your evidence that the Mac rigging is failing or coming apart,
Johnny? What statistics do you have on the number of Macson on which
the rigging failed?

Really Jim. Thousands, hundreds, a dozen, a few, one? Who cares? You!! You
own one. I've seen the rigging fail on the bay. Sorry... I know that's bad
news. I've seen them up close. The rigging is inadequate for the conditions
on the bay. I think you need to find whatever stats you think you like.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

See previous. -
I did.

Look again.

And, I saw a Mac last year that could not sail in
Raccoon Straight. We circled them and ask if they needed help, they
said, no, and dropped the sail and started the engine. Made straight
for Tiberon. Gee, and it was only blowing about 22 kts.

Johnny, this is a good example of your lack of any understanding of even
the most basic principles of logic and statistics. - You seem to think
that (your version of) a single instance proves that the Macs aren't safe
for coastal cruising, etc. You also don't know the particular
circumstances of that little episode. - At a minimum, you need a basic
course in logic.

Well, I guess when you see an inadequate rig on a boat, with people on it
who look like they might need help, who have a huge engine and rely on it
instead of their sails, and can't handle the normal wind conditions, I guess
that's just one little episode that I don't understand. I've never seen a
Mac off the California coast.. thank GOD. I would probably call the CG
immediately if I did see one, as they would be in danger for sure.

Already did.

Sure you did. - By citing one example.

Well, how many do you think is required... 100?? Name a number, then do your
own research. Please get back to us asap!!

No problem backing up your statements? - Then have at it.

Done did it.

Nope. All you did was to provide further examples of your own ignorance.

Well, you must be right. You own an off-shore capable yacht built to the
highest standards. A vessel capable of any conditions thown at it! You sure
don't need to spend any time defending her or you. You have all your wants
and needs taken care of, and regularly cruise where others fear to tread!

Bwahahahahaaaaaaabahahahaahaaaaaa

Mac 26
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

In article ,
Jim Cate wrote:

No experience on real sailboats? Well, I sailed a number of sailboats
in the 30 - 40 ft range for some 25 years before I bought the Mac 26M. -
They included several Catalinas, several Cals, an Endeavor 32, an O'Day
37, a Valiant 40, etc., etc. - Are any of those "real sailboats" John?


And, you picked a Mac. That either says a lot about your judgement or
you sail in very protected waters. We need to know our limitations
Jimmy.

Interesting how you quickly change the subject and dodge the issue when you
see you got your ass kicked, Johnny. - My comments about sailing a number
of larger boats was in response to your snide remark that:


Yeah, if you have no experience on real sailboats, sure, they're fun
to sail.

You should have simply stepped up and admitted that you lost that one.

You picked the Mac, not I. I think that pretty much says it all,
regardless of whether or not you *think*
(and I use that word advisedly) you kicked my ass. Too funny.

Most sailboat owners in the Houston-Clear Lake - Kemah area leave their
boats sitting in their slips 99.9% of the time.

So, what's your point?

The point is that most owners of the "real sailboats" you keep talking about
don't often make use of their capability. I think it's better to have a
boat that is sailed often rather than a boat that COULD be sailed to the
Bahamas but is seldom taken out. I think that the Mac owners probably get
in more time sailing their boats than most owners of ocean going vessels..

You think??? Please back that up with some statistics... or am I the only
one who has to do that?


You're damn right I'd be embarrassed. They junk and look like it.

What exactly are you talking about John.? - "They junk and look like
it"! - What the Hell does that mean?

Macs look cheap and they are. They're junk. Not sure how much more
clear I can be.

If you had said that, it would have been clear, but that's not what you
said. - In any event, you seem to be running out of things to say about the
Macs, Johnny.

Well, you haven't contradicted me... I'm still waiting.....

But your statement: "They're junk and look like it." is jibberish, and it's
actually rather typical of your comments John.

What's not clear about it? How old are you, 14?

Then stop posting your bs. Fess up.. are you a Mac dealer? There's no
embarrassment about that... well, actually there is.

Nope. If I were a Mac dealer I woudn't waste my time with sickos like
you. I would be afraid that if you bought one you would give the Macs a
bad name.

Wooooooo - I'm a sicko! Call the police!!

Don't worry, I wouldn't buy one.

Again, I'm not a Mac dealer, and I don't have any financial interest in the
company. Like most Mac owners, I enjoy sailling the boat. - What I am
trying to do is to provide some degree of balance to the discussion. -
Thus, I don't claim the Macs are suited for extended blue water sailing,
crossings, or the like, and I don't claim they are great for racing, etc.
On the other hand, they are great boats, and they seem to be the subject of
some ridiculous criticism and highly misleading criticism on this ng.

You have fun! Well, good for you. They're good boats to have fun on!
Attention everyone!! Jim has
fun on his boat. That's certainly THE definition of sailing. "I don't
claim the Macs are suited for extended
blue water sailing, crossings, or the like, and I don't claim they are
great for racing, etc. On the other
hand, they are great boats...."

They're great for having fun on!!!

I was going to ask what kind of fun, but honestly, I really don't want to
know! Of course, I'm a sicko,
and I know people who have fun in trailers.

Mac 26
 

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:40:42 -0600, Jim Cate wrote:

The point is that most owners of the "real sailboats" you keep talking
about don't often make use of their capability. I think it's better to
have a boat that is sailed often rather than a boat that COULD be sailed
to the Bahamas but is seldom taken out. I think that the Mac owners
probably get in more time sailing their boats than most owners of ocean
going vessels..

And jetski owners appear to go out every day. They must have the best
"boats" of all, then.

R.

Mac 26
 

Jim Cate wrote:
....

The point is that most owners of the "real sailboats" you keep talking
about don't often make use of their capability. I think it's better to
have a boat that is sailed often rather than a boat that COULD be sailed
to the Bahamas but is seldom taken out. I think that the Mac owners
probably get in more time sailing their boats than most owners of ocean
going vessels..


I certainly agree that its better to have a boat that's used than one
that's not used. And for some people, the Mac should provide that
usability.

On the other hand, I see almost no Mac's where I sail in New England.
Giving the numbers, one might expect to see as many Mac's as Hunters
and Catalinas. However, I spend most of the summer on the water and
hardly ever see a Mac out there. In fact, I've traveled the East
Coast from Maine to Florida several times over the last 30 years, and
have only seen a handful of Mac's actually being used. There's been
one in my marina for the last few years, and I've never seen them more
the a half mile from the dock. In fact, to my knowledge, they've only
been out 3 times in two years. Some years ago, there was a 26X that I
would see powering out, but they seem to have left the scene.

I know this is anecdotal, but if Macs were actually used on sal****er
on the East Coast, I would be seeing them more then once a year. Most
of the contributors here are also based in sal****er - I wonder if
there's anyone whose experience is much different from mine.

My hunch is that most Mac's spend most of their time on trailers
behind the garage, waiting for that one week vacation at the lake.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Mac 26
 

Out here we occasionally see a Mac on the bay. 50% of the time, she's
struggling. We do one or more of the following...

1) stay heck away
2) circle and ask if they need help
3) show the crew how to use a cleat hitch if they make it to the dock
4) try to get my students to keep their voices down when they comment on the
low-rent rigging

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Jim Cate wrote:
...
The point is that most owners of the "real sailboats" you keep talking
about don't often make use of their capability. I think it's better to
have a boat that is sailed often rather than a boat that COULD be sailed
to the Bahamas but is seldom taken out. I think that the Mac owners
probably get in more time sailing their boats than most owners of ocean
going vessels..


I certainly agree that its better to have a boat that's used than one
that's not used. And for some people, the Mac should provide that
usability.

On the other hand, I see almost no Mac's where I sail in New England.
Giving the numbers, one might expect to see as many Mac's as Hunters and
Catalinas. However, I spend most of the summer on the water and hardly
ever see a Mac out there. In fact, I've traveled the East Coast from
Maine to Florida several times over the last 30 years, and have only seen
a handful of Mac's actually being used. There's been one in my marina for
the last few years, and I've never seen them more the a half mile from the
dock. In fact, to my knowledge, they've only been out 3 times in two
years. Some years ago, there was a 26X that I would see powering out, but
they seem to have left the scene.

I know this is anecdotal, but if Macs were actually used on sal****er on
the East Coast, I would be seeing them more then once a year. Most of the
contributors here are also based in sal****er - I wonder if there's anyone
whose experience is much different from mine.

My hunch is that most Mac's spend most of their time on trailers behind
the garage, waiting for that one week vacation at the lake.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Mac 26
 

Capt. JG wrote:
Out here we occasionally see a Mac on the bay. 50% of the time, she's
struggling. We do one or more of the following...

1) stay heck away
2) circle and ask if they need help
3) show the crew how to use a cleat hitch if they make it to the dock
4) try to get my students to keep their voices down when they comment on the
low-rent rigging

There are lots up here, quite popular. They can roar across the opn
stretches and sail in the islands. First to the anchorages etc. Best
of both worlds for a guy still working and cruising inside the island.
They have much longer legs than a regular weekender.